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Post by dragoneye on Apr 19, 2010 14:15:14 GMT -5
Hey Den, First post here. Awesome work on pulling the raw weapon statistics and posting them up here. This is the only source of reliable information I've been able to come across. The only thing that seems like its missing is more detailed information on the Sniper Rifle accuracies when scoped and/or crouched. 90% of the time, I play as a quick-scope sniper. Not the "Camp in a corner and farm" kind-- the "moves and takes pot shots while pushing an objective" kind. I regularly swap between the SV98, m24 and GOL, and it feels like the three Bolt-actions have different accuracy-over-time gains, and different accuracies while scoped and moving, crouched, standing, and moving while crouched. I also remember reading somewhere that each of the bolt action sniper rifles have a short "lead in" time as soon as you scope, before the shot that you fire becomes 100% accurate. I've been looking around, but I haven't been able to find any hard data about variable accuracies between the Bolt-action sniper rifles. If anyone here has a more comprehensive breakdown beyond an accuracy "number" (Especially for the Time-To-Accurate from Scoping), it'd be a big help to me, and the other dedicated snipers out there. Thanks in advance either way, You are my bro, bro.
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Den
He's That Guy
Posts: 4,294,967,295
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Post by Den on Apr 19, 2010 15:29:17 GMT -5
Yeah, the Spread/Spray part of the Recon rifles is kinda useless right now.
Standing or crouching won't make a difference, the M24/SV98/GOL are perfectly accurate while sighted. Moving in either posture while sighted, those rifles have a spread of 2.0.
While the rest of the weapons recover 3.0 spread a second, the bolt action rifles recover 11.0 spread per second... at least the M24 does. The SV98 and GOL (S&G) have a 20.0 spread decrease.
It takes 0.18 (0.1 S&G) seconds to recover from 2.0 spread at the instant you stop. The deceleration from walking before a full stop may also play a factor, so you might wanna add another tenth of a second.
From the hip to zooming in, it would take 0.63 (0.35 S&G) seconds to get to zero spread. Including the sighting time and probably some other things, It takes about a full second to get down to perfect accuracy when scoping in. The "Fade From Black" effect isn't a solid indicator - it will have already cleared up with about a quarter of a second left before perfect accuracy.
----- Over the course of playing, you surely have been connected to many servers with varying latency. The problem with this game is that it's lag compensation is relatively poor. The "LatencyCompensation" is set to adjust what the player sees and what the server sees.
Apparently it doesn't change with the ping of the server and instead is set to a default 100 ping, so the further away from 100 ping the server is for you, the further ahead or behind of a moving enemy you have to aim.
You may see a mist of blood shoot from a bad guy's cranium, but unless you get that little X indicator, you didn't hit him according to the server. Over time, you'll see varying degrees of accuracy in weapons simply because the server isn't picking up what you're sending out.
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Post by dragoneye on Apr 19, 2010 15:45:33 GMT -5
Thanks!
Well, the thing is that it usually takes less than a second for me to sight in. I have a strange playstyle. I use a bolt-action sniper with armor and the 12x scope- but I don't camp.
I usually take aim & scope, then use the 12x so I have a nice big area of the head at relatively close range to sight in on and fire at. So I'm typically sprinting between cover, and pausing to snap off quick headshots at people in cover, before they can sight in on me. This means that I'm more or less firing as soon as the scope appears, and then running again.
I've been swapping between rifles lately getting frustrated with the m24, especially, for missing medium-long range headshots against stationary targets literally 4 or 5 times in a row. Some of this I'm sure is due to latency- but I could have sworn I've seen the bullet swerving off course when I snapped off an especially quick shot.
I know that in terms of damage falloff, the GOL is the worst- but I've fallen back on it just because I want to be absolutely sure I am not missing otherwise perfect headshots because I am firing too quickly from scoped. (The SV98 I don't use as much because of the very large hud-bob on it).
So, judging from what you're saying- the best bolt action sniper rifle for headfarming-on-the-go would be the GOL, because of the faster recovery of accuracy compared to the m24? (Again discounting the SV98 because of the obnoxiously large hud bob at 12x mag).
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Post by jprussell on Apr 19, 2010 16:08:43 GMT -5
Just a few things to add to what Den said. The VSS actually has a decrease rate of 4 while scoped, unlike the semi-autos with 3. So, while the semi-autos take .67 seconds to become pinpoint accurate (for both moving then stopping while scoped, and going from the hip to scoped while standing), the VSS takes half a second. Should also mention that since the hip movement deviation of these three is 3, if you move while unzoomed then immediately zoom in, it'll take even longer to become pinpoint accurate - up to 1 second and .75 seconds for the semi-autos and the VSS respectively. There are also some minor accuracy differences between standing and crouching for all sniper rifles except the GOL. The semi-autos' and the VSS's hip and hip movement deviation decrease when crouched from 2 and 3 to 1.5 and 2. Thus, it takes less time for them to become pinpoint accurate when you zoom in while crouched than it does while standing. The M24, SV98, and M95 all have scope sway on the PC (I understand they have none on the consoles, so the following doesn't apply there), and it decreases when crouched. All three have an aim steadiness of 1 while standing, but when crouched, the M95 has .6, the M24 has .75, and the SV98 has .8 (lower is better). The GOL has no scope sway regardless, and I see absolutely no difference in its use whatsoever between standing and crouching. Also worth noting, the SVU and VSS have no scope sway, but the Type 88 does, with a steadiness of 1 and .6 while standing and crouching. Over the course of playing, you surely have been connected to many servers with varying latency. The problem with this game is that it's lag compensation is relatively poor. The "LatencyCompensation" is set to adjust what the player sees and what the server sees. Apparently it doesn't change with the ping of the server and instead is set to a default 100 ping, so the further away from 100 ping the server is for you, the further ahead or behind of a moving enemy you have to aim. You may see a mist of blood shoot from a bad guy's cranium, but unless you get that little X indicator, you didn't hit him according to the server. Over time, you'll see varying degrees of accuracy in weapons simply because the server isn't picking up what you're sending out. Oh man, this game uses that method to compensate for lag? Isn't that precisely the method they implemented in BF2 in 1.41 (or maybe it was 1.4?), then removed in 1.5 due to how horrible it was? Why would they use it again?
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Den
He's That Guy
Posts: 4,294,967,295
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Post by Den on Apr 19, 2010 16:18:36 GMT -5
Heck, I stopped playing BF2 by 1.3.
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Post by dragoneye on Apr 19, 2010 16:55:02 GMT -5
Thanks for the info and updates, guys. That does cement for me that the GOL is going to be the best run & gun headfarming sniper rifle, even with the lower RoF than the m24.
I'll have to start getting into the habit of crouching before snapping (like in CS) and see if it cuts down on the number of wonky shots. It'll kill me to have to pause before firing though- (literally).
The ping thing is especially good advice though. I usually join servers with as low a ping as I can find, but I think from now on I'll try joining servers closer to 100 ping serverlist.
(BTW: I did also hear in another post on the BC2 official forums that the in-game ping lies right now, and that the server browser ping is the correct ping.)
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Den
He's That Guy
Posts: 4,294,967,295
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Post by Den on Apr 19, 2010 17:05:21 GMT -5
Supposedly the server browser ping is the "real" ping (and that's the number that the LatencyCompensation should be set to), but the in-game ping is the "latency" that combines the time of communicating from peer to server and back (in game ping is usually a bit more than double the browser ping).
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Post by dragoneye on Apr 19, 2010 17:10:43 GMT -5
Off topic now but:
I did a little more digging on the ping issue on the official forums-- and it turns out that some people did the footwork and found out that the LatencyCompensation value in the file does nothing. It's there, but the variable is never actually called/used in the game's code.
So.. if BC2 really is using this method for latency compensation-- that value isn't connected to anything, and any change in gameplay is purely a placebo effect. (Some people changed it to 10,000 and observed no difference.)
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Post by cptmacmillan on Apr 19, 2010 17:27:10 GMT -5
There are two CVARs you can add to mydocuments>bfbc2> gamesettings.ini and settings.ini that help with this game's lol lag compensation.
SettingsManager.floatSet GSDefaultLatencyCompensation 0.63 SettingsManager.U32Set GSInterpolationTime 63
That's personally what I have as my favourite servers are all in the 60 ping region. Change the 0,63 and 63 to whatever average of ping the servers you normally play on is, it will help alot.
I've heard that if you put the CVARs at the end of gamesettings.ini, they won't work. I have no idea if it's true or not, or why it would be that way, but throw it in the middle somewhere just in case.
If you're doubting the effectiveness of it, here's a video showing what it can do. First it shows with default of 0,100 and 100, then it shows at 0,45 and 45 (the ping for that server), and then lastly it shows the in-game latency that shows up, instead of the ping that shows up when joining the server.
It just does not look like it can be a placebo.
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Post by dragoneye on Apr 19, 2010 17:42:43 GMT -5
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Post by cptmacmillan on Apr 19, 2010 18:31:14 GMT -5
The most likely explanation for no effect in-game probably has to do with putting the CVARs at the end of the gamesettings.ini. It would explain why they could set it to 10,000 and get no effect.
I don't particularly have an explanation for the .exe searching, but then there's the video. And the explanation for why the video is false is an absolutely terrible one. To elaborate, the explanation was that it was switched over to hardcore. Which is LOL, considering shotguns kill in one hit in both, plus he hit him over 8 times on the standard server.
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Post by fatsix on Apr 20, 2010 9:22:57 GMT -5
Dragoneye, the issue you might be having with missing headshots is the fact your using the 12x scope on short to medium range. I noticed this as well. I think it shoots a little high for short range. Aiming at the neck fixed this issue for me.
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Post by dragoneye on Apr 20, 2010 12:15:46 GMT -5
Good observation. Now that you mention it, I've gotten "bizzare" headshots while snapping high body shots before, this might be the way to go.
I wonder if there's a way to confirm that the scope (or maybe even the rifles in general) shoot a little high to compensate for bullet drop at range
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Post by SheWolf on Apr 20, 2010 14:33:24 GMT -5
well you could stand close to a wall, aim exactly on some characteristic spot (like a little white dot or whatever), fire and check where the decal is...
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