Bloom of DMR, NR, sniper, and magnum

[mannon]

Personally, if anything, I would actually suggest widening the bloom, but having it reset in the same amount of time. This would keep full pacing at the same timing, but greatly reduce the effective range of spamming.

Of course, doing so, would vastly alter weapon balance as well, but not as vastly as trying to eliminate it entirely.

At this point I think we can politely agree to disagree, though. You don't see the need for randomness in the game and I don't see the need to change the game from how it is now. ;p

[nimrod6134]

Oct 5, 2010 20:40:59 GMT -5 skitrel said:

You can certainly quantify luck when it comes to a video game that employs a random number generator as a factor. Being lucky simply implies that in said game you won due to getting multiple dice rolls in your favour.

I understand what you mean now, I was thinking you were referring to luck in a more superstitious sense.

[Flubadoo]

Well sniper bloom is redundant since the bloom resets right when its possible to fire the next shot.

[ice597]

with the sniper rifle, the rof is capped to a speed just a tiny bit before the bloom resets, unless you have bottomless clip on and firing for a straight minutes, you won't notice a difference.

[mannon]

Now that I've actually had the game a while I thought I'd just mention that the cone of fire is not something that only kicks in when the reticule blooms out, though I'm sure this is known by any experienced players.

There is always a cone within which the shot will pick a random trajectory, even if the bloom has been allowed to fully reset back to it's minimal levels. This even applies to the sniper rifle which is never 100% accurate, but rather just has a very small cone. I don't know if there are any 100% accurate weapons... perhaps the spartan laser or something, but none of the conventional weapons have perfect accuracy under any circumstances.

So technically the sniper bloom isn't redundant because even though it resets to minimum it never reaches zero. *shrugs*

[n1gh7]

The Spartan laser (in halo 3 at least.) was perfectly accurate, but it fired 3 lasers in one shot so you potentially only injure someone, not kill them. *shrug*

[exaltedvanguard]

I see a lot of people always using the same misconceptions about bloom when arguing in favor of it. Seems a lot of people don't realize that they're not saying what they think they're saying.

"Bloom's always been in Halo, it just wasn't visible."
This is only true for full-auto weapons. Semi-autos were always 100% consistent in their accuracy. That means guns like the pistol and DMR (aka BR) have much more luck attached. Bloom on full-autos wasn't a huge issue. Halo 3 only had 5 full-autos. One had homing anyway, and 2 were rarely used.

"Bloom is the same as recoil/other games use recoil, how is that any less random."
You can consciously, actively counter-act the effects of recoil, even while firing full-auto. All you can do about bloom is hope you're lucky or stop firing.

A good example of this point would be the famas in Black Ops. It will generally fire up-right. Since a good player will recognize this, they can fight the recoil with the thumbstick and fire in longer bursts, or even full-auto.

I can already guess what you're going to say, though. "That only works when the recoil is predictable." Wrong. A good player will be able to make split-second adjustments, even without knowing the direction the gun will jump - not as easily, obviously, but it's doable.

Going to Black Ops again, watch some gameplay of a good M14 user. You'll see them fire once, the gun will jump, and they'll move the aim before the gun stops moving so they can get the second shot off before the gun needs to totally reset.

Recoil allows a player to compensate for the randomness and adds depth to the act of firing the weapon. You can aim initially, fire a burst, compensate during the burst to remain accurate for longer, and choose when to stop firing. When you get to fire again is determined by your own skill at aiming and recovering.

Bloom lets you make the choice of aiming initially and choosing when to stop. There's no skill-based compensation and when you get to fire again is out of your control. The only choice is whether to gamble or not - and even this isn't entirely your choice since it depends just as much on the other player's choice in the same regard.

[mannon]

Changed my mind and deleted the whole stupid rant... I don't want to get sucked back into this debate. I give up... I don't care... It's all been talked to death.

I used to get excited about pro gaming and competitive gaming, but now I just view them as a cancer that is trading fun for "competitiveness". I no longer believe video games ever will be a legitimate sport of any regard.

[IL TJ]

Just thought id offer my opinion on this...

I am an onyx division player and the bloom works fine for me (not perfect though). The key to managing the bloom is situational. If your moderately close to the guy then spamming is a must. Medium range is complicated though. Spamming IS better if the other guy is out of cover and not strafing (or strafing badly).
Here are my personal strategies in med-long range DMR encounters.

Strafe/Jump - Strafe left to right really fast. I dont spend more than a second per strafe. I take my time and make sure every single shot hits. Sometimes I even wait too long and shoot well after the bloom has reset. When the other guy is about 2 shot then I jump and double shoot to finish him off.

Double shoot- Stand below/next to cover, pop out and fire two shots in quick secession, and then duck behind cover to let it reset. This is basically strafing/jumping around cover except with a deliberate fire rate. This is just a general strategy and I usually have to improvise with my timing.

Scope/Crouch - At long range crouching is effective when combined with scoping in. This is because after you hit the guy twice, you can triple shoot to finish him off. If he shoots back then dont crouch and stay scoped in. If you get hit, dont shoot again until you can get scoped back in. If you get too far behind then run. At the onyx level, these are types of gunfights are very common on kingdom. It really just turns into a "rail gun fight".

Don't know if this matters, but I pretty much always "drag shot" with the DMR, even when spamming close up.