That post contains a chart and a brief explanation of how it worked as well as exact values for things in CoD4. Read the next few posts to figure out how "thickness" factors into the equation.
Basically, for pistols/SMGs, Hardened (Deep Impact) increases the variety of materials that can be penetrated by increasing small penetration to medium penetration. It also increases the damage retained and allows for penetration of thicker materials. Because of this, one effect is that it also increases the angle at which a surface can be penetrated (because steeper angles would equate to a "thicker" surface to penetrate).
So I have to ask a stupid question. Den's perk chart lists Hardened as increasing the penetration angle. So this means that Hardened only reduces the damage penalty when firing through materials? So if I were to use a Spectre with Hardened, I would never achieve the Medium penetration like the Kiparis?
I like the idea of having an SMG being able to penetrate players, but the time it takes to unlock the Kiparis combined with the 20 round magazine really turns me off.
To clarify, the "rifle bullet" attribute is what allows a gun to shoot through a player. The Kiparis not only has medium penetration, it also has the "rifle bullet" attribute which allows it to shoot through players. Hardened also does NOT change the "level" of penetration that a gun has - ex. small, medium, large.
In the thread I linked to, there are some equations that explain how Deep Impact/FMJ/Hardened works. The bottom line is that some calculations are done to figure out how much damage would be reduced to after shooting through an object. Having Hardened throws an extra * 2 into the equation, which would effectively increase the penetration capacity to have damage retained doubled, or to increase the thickness of the object it can penetrate.
Since penetration angle can also be considered "thicker object," the perk description Den has is accurate.
The catch is that an SMG with small penetration can only penetrate set types of materials, as shown in the above chart. Added Hardened to those weapons will not change the modifiers for the materials, i.e. turn small penetration into medium penetration. Rather, it increases their ability to penetrate those materials already in their section of the chart, i.e. those materials in the "small" section of the chart. And as an added bonus for Small penetration weapons, adding Hardened also unlocks the left half of the Small chart, i.e. metal, plaster, wood, brick, etc.
I kinda ran in circles for a bit, but I hope I got the message across.
Last Edit: Jan 3, 2011 13:30:52 GMT -5 by aranshada
Yeah, that was fine. So I guess I'm really just stuck with the Kiparis if I want an SMG that can hose a crowded hallway. I think I'd be better off with a Lightweight, Dual Mag FAMAS/AUG.
The ability to penetrate bodies is not such a big deal in my opinion. I have more than twice as many kills with the Kiparis as I do with the MP5k. Yet when I slap Rapid Fire on my MP5 I seem to get a whole lot of triple kills. More than I do with a Kiparis.
Those were my very very very first charts back when I barely understood anything and had only made the image to show the info to some people I play with. And I used dark blue backgrounds for some reason. Errors and misinformation everywhere.
So I'm pretty sure that chart is, simply put, wrong. We have the truth that no other site does. We have the Brotius Maximus. That, and the chart earlier in this thread also contains the exact penetration values as extracted from the files - something the green chart with percentages fails to use. Not to mention the "wtf" that occurs when you look closely at the chart - a "high" penetration weapon takes a 20% damage reduction from a "small" size wall, and when you slap on Deep Impact it STILL takes a 20% damage reduction.... bullshit.
The ability to penetrate bodies is not such a big deal in my opinion.I have more than twice as many kills with the Kiparis as I do with the MP5k. Yet when I slap Rapid Fire on my MP5 I seem to get a whole lot of triple kills. More than I do with a Kiparis.
It is for me, and is one of the main reasons why I dislike SMGs. I often find myself in the enemy spawn, or at least where the enemy spawn funnels. I can take down 1 or 2 no problem, but there's always that extra guy behind them who unknowingly had a human shield. That, and the fact that the 20 round SMGs are pretty much useless with their nonexistent ammo supply. I actually like the Skorpion and Kiparis, but I find myself playing more cautiously with them because of their bad multi-target capabilities. Cautious play means longer lives, which means running out of ammo. Using Scavenger on an SMG just feels wrong.
Rapid Fire MP5 is my favorite though. As long as I have SoH, it's just tasty.
Bullet penetration and cover is a lot more useful than you might think. You don't need to explicitly look for places where you can penetrate. Every now and then a piece of cover will get between you and your target in a firefight, and that extra damage can make the difference between getting a kill or not. Good players WILL use cover effectively. However, I am personally not a fan of FMJ, mostly because of the distracting sparks that would shoot out when I hit something with FMJ. Those sparks are very annoying, almost like a second muzzle flash, and can sometimes obscure the area around the target. The perk versions in CoD4 and BO aren't as bad, and Hardened Pro is awesome.