|
Post by drfluffy on Jan 19, 2011 13:26:45 GMT -5
Notice that the scar iron, as great as it may be, blocks a huge part of your foveal vision? I personally have a no iron sight policy. As great as I can "adapt" to an iron sight, I know I can do better with RDS simply because of the science behind it.
|
|
|
Post by drfluffy on Jan 19, 2011 13:40:21 GMT -5
also i just want to say that some of those build are very specialized. The scar build is for you to snipe people from behind while being hidden, hence the 4X. You don't go knee deep into enemy territory with it, you are knee deep but hidden far away.
|
|
|
Post by infininja on Jan 19, 2011 14:33:28 GMT -5
The only issue I have with iron sights is that you basically have to put your gun between you and your target to hit them, and if they're heading downward in your field of view they get completely lost. Still, I use irons on most of my builds simply because I like the other specializations more.
|
|
phale
True Bro
Posts: 635
|
Post by phale on Jan 19, 2011 15:12:52 GMT -5
also i just want to say that some of those build are very specialized. The scar build is for you to snipe people from behind while being hidden, hence the 4X. You don't go knee deep into enemy territory with it, you are knee deep but hidden far away. I understand. Of course, I'd rather use the UMP or VSS with the 4x, but then you have the ammo problem... Anyway, I should try this setup some time. I'm used to focusing on objectives and sticking with teammates (I play medic mostly) so trying out a stealth infiltrator role might be a nice change of pace.
|
|
|
Post by rudybojangles on Jan 19, 2011 15:48:12 GMT -5
Perhaps consider using irons and spotting for compensation. (Non-HC) You can run extra ammo, lightweight (better for flanking), or extra explosives. Strafe right and spot the enemy at the same time. If you can keep the irons on him, then don't. If you feel as though he may get away, spot and shoot, and a teammate will take him down for you, gifting you an assist and a spot bonus on a kill that you may not have gotten with RDS and no spotting. People's attitude is kill-whore, but really, more than most games, this game should be played like a team. Even if you are doing stealth infiltration, you have a role as a spotter. Spot everyone, take out the easiest targets first. Team recon players can take out the other targets, or put fire down on them to force them into cover. That's when you cap/plant. The guns that excel at this are silenced guns with range, such as the 9A-91 with ammo+, VSS, XM8C, or if you can stand the kick, the SCAR-L. I find that the AKS can be heard pretty easily by the enemy team, and is generally not a good idea. Other suggestions are the UMP if you can get used to irons with ammo+ or the SVU. Of course, I play non touch football rush, so it could be different for you. If you hate it because of the spotting system, I suggest taking another stab at it with the sole intent on spotting ALL enemies that you see past 15m before you kill them. You'll soon learn how you can use the spotting system to yours and your team's advantage. Careful with the recon kit if you are going stealth: the ping of a motion tracker alerts enemies to your presence. Try to throw it as far away as possible and do it with a wide open view in front of you and minimal back flank spots. This way, you can see charging enemies early. Sorry, I get preachy sometimes
|
|
|
Post by drfluffy on Jan 19, 2011 15:55:03 GMT -5
You just can't "stealth infilitrate" in normal, orange pop up over your head = death, might as well stick with autoshotty.
|
|
|
Post by raxcoswell on Jan 19, 2011 17:25:22 GMT -5
Not a big fan of the gustav. Flies fast, but otherwise hasn't got much going on for it. Good for shooting at blackhawks. RPG has enough splash to kill guys easily, and it's nice to be able to kill a tank, which a CG can only do if the driver is atrocious.
Irons and foveal vision: This is getting pretty academic. When was the last time a guy sneaked up on you from directly in front and below you, remaining entirely behind that little blocked area? It does block some screen, but people aren't the same shape as SCAR irons. I'll admit there are some shocking irons in this game, and I'll use a red dot out of preference, but it's a disadvantage that doesn't really leave the blackboard.
Infiltrating on normal: can be done and I do it a lot. ATV right down the very edge of the map, if you're playing such a map, and you'll be approaching them from behind. You wont be spotted until you already made a big mess. Is map dependent though, not really going to work on Valparaiso, Cold War or Isla Innocentes, most of Arica or parts of Nelson Bay or Port Valdez. (this is rush). But there's normally a way to get something done. Personal favourite would be after taking the first base on Arica Harbour, driving the humvee over the mountain range (quickly since it's out of bounds) and landing in the back of their base. Essentially, if you kill everyone before they see you, you wont get no nacho business.
|
|
|
Post by drfluffy on Jan 19, 2011 18:52:18 GMT -5
Not a big fan of the gustav. Flies fast, but otherwise hasn't got much going on for it. Good for shooting at blackhawks. RPG has enough splash to kill guys easily, and it's nice to be able to kill a tank, which a CG can only do if the driver is atrocious. Irons and foveal vision: This is getting pretty academic. When was the last time a guy sneaked up on you from directly in front and below you, remaining entirely behind that little blocked area? It does block some screen, but people aren't the same shape as SCAR irons. I'll admit there are some shocking irons in this game, and I'll use a red dot out of preference, but it's a disadvantage that doesn't really leave the blackboard. Infiltrating on normal: can be done and I do it a lot. ATV right down the very edge of the map, if you're playing such a map, and you'll be approaching them from behind. You wont be spotted until you already made a big mess. Is map dependent though, not really going to work on Valparaiso, Cold War or Isla Innocentes, most of Arica or parts of Nelson Bay or Port Valdez. (this is rush). But there's normally a way to get something done. Personal favourite would be after taking the first base on Arica Harbour, driving the humvee over the mountain range (quickly since it's out of bounds) and landing in the back of their base. Essentially, if you kill everyone before they see you, you wont get no nacho business. I have to admit that I dont play normal, so i don't know how likely you can infilitrate well. I imagine with the increased health you can move around a lot better, but then you'll be using a different build (like ammo + iron sight) the issue of iron sight comes up when you are attempting to aim at long range (say, you are tactical loitering at point C and attempting to shot at enemies at A in the back, and they are running, the ring takes up valuable acuity space. If you are actually fighting at very close range, you can get iron + ammo, but then you might as well use the 9A91, which is a superior gun with good iron, but then again, why use iron if you regularly kill assualts? theory crafting is fun but I think the best ability is to make custom classes on the fly depends on server.
|
|
|
Post by drfluffy on Jan 19, 2011 18:53:10 GMT -5
On the topic of rocket launcher, you are much better off with RPG + explosive spec + tracer for general rocket usage, good damage against infantry, good against vehicle and flyers.
|
|
|
Post by rudybojangles on Jan 19, 2011 20:13:36 GMT -5
I wouldn't recommend (except for maybe the best) iron sights on HC. My limited experience with it leads me to agree with drfluffy. Also, since 4x can get cluttered with muzzleflash if you are running with a non-silenced weapon, I would recommend getting a silenced weapon. VSS comes to mind. 70 player health means 2-3 shot kill. Also, many of the engineer weapons are great snipers with the 4x (Uzi, PP2K, UMP, AKS). Of course, if you are going loud, then it comes down to preference. Sometimes, a 4x clutters my screen more than irons after shooting (think MG3, awful with 4x, godly with irons). Again, limited experience with Hardcore, and a lot of theory crafting, like fluffy said. But what else am I supposed to do at work?
|
|
|
Post by rubionubio on Jan 20, 2011 3:23:55 GMT -5
Haha, I hear that.
Irons are definitely a great source of debate in FPSes, and hopefully always will be. When games like Black Ops go out and make half the irons the same, it makes me sad in my pants.
To your actual question, I would change a few things but it's mostly due to personal preference. I don't like the 4x on anything but maybe a few maps that are just humongous, and even then I would prefer to take a different spec and avoid outdoor/long range encounters. The benefit of "infiltrating" is that you get to pick and choose your engagements, for at least the first couple. If you're going to use a 4x because you're "knee-deep" behind enemy lines but not actually in "hugging distance", you're forcing yourself to a very narrow range of effectiveness, because inside a certain point ADS'ing will make the target fill up your entire reticle and you'll lose him in an instant. Personally I would prefer a red-dot, or no sight at all if using a gun with good irons, like the XM8c, SCAR, 9A-91, and maybe the PP2k.
Just arrange your first or second engagement to be an assault (or another engineer w/ a useable weapon in a pinch) so you can get an ammo refill, and then just remember that spot if you run low. I personally would rather take the UMP (I love it, personal preference) w/ a Red-dot, AT Mines (RPGs and CGs aren't exactly stealthy and leave a big smoking arrow pointing at you), and your choice of pistol. Toss some mines around their vehicles (underneath where they spawn is the most devious choice), and wreak havoc. When the mines go, you'll be long gone. And since you'll probably need to find an assault ammo-box anyway, you can get your mines resupplied and lay more if you want.
To me, that's wreaking some serious havoc behind enemy lines.
|
|
|
Post by raxcoswell on Jan 20, 2011 9:25:28 GMT -5
Since we're all chatting irons: what about other classes?
Assaults I'm pretty torn on. A lot of them have truly rancid irons and you're often using them at distances where the blocking becomes a big issue. However, the double grenade perk is flipping radical. I know you have infinite ammo as an assault, but the counters on frags and 40mms is long, and for me at least, assault is the class that spends the least time standing still. The ability to get 6 explosives downrange on the move is great. Don't use the other options as much, but being to cover pretty much the entire enemy team in smoke whilst running is sick-nasty, and the 40mm shotgun becomes a bit more serious as a storming tool. Use this always on vietnam, but the only guns I really this with on vanilla are the aek (lovely lovely irons) and the f2000 (this gun isn't really for aiming with, or at least is highly conducive to running around with)
Obviously recons don't get irons and the choice is less of a big deal with medics. That bigger range for your lunchbox is fine but I have definitely never actually noticed it before. I mean if someone wants to get healed they'll sit on it. Don't need ammo because you start with so much, no explosives to double. Doubling one grenade is a waste. Lightweight - if you absolutely need that extra speed to revive a guy under fire, chances are he doesn't want reviving.
|
|
novem
True Bro
Posts: 193
|
Post by novem on Jan 20, 2011 11:00:48 GMT -5
Good assault irons: AEK, XM8, F2k, M416 Decent: Aug, M16 Bad: AN94
Good engi irons: 91A1, XM8C Decent: Scar, AKSu Bad: Uzi, PP2k, Ump (this and Abakans are worst sights ever)
Good rambo irons: XM8, MG36, MG3 Decent: m249, T88, m60 Bad: PKM (almost decent)
With good irons i almost never use optics, because its a waste of perk. With decent i'm also trying not too, but it depends on class and if my team is attacking or defending (and also what enemy team uses). Smgs with bad irons i can use without scope, because of double explosives and weapon handling perk. But its hard to kill on medium-long ranges. Sometimes i like to snipe with PP2k/Uzi/Ump and 4x. An94 is unplayable without optics.
|
|
|
Post by drfluffy on Jan 20, 2011 12:38:53 GMT -5
I think the issue with optic perk is that near all the perk on the same slot just give you more ammo. This can be solved by an ammo pack. However, LW pack is very, very good and very very underused.
|
|
|
Post by drfluffy on Jan 20, 2011 12:44:03 GMT -5
Build of the day
Hardcore run and gun
USAS12 M1911 LW pack extended shotty magazine
Semi-auto shotty's firepower is surprisingly great in hardcore. In my experienced, I've NEVER lost a gun vs. gun battle with the semi shotty at range closer than the width of C building in panama canal. It's also surprisingly capable at longer range as well, so basically, you shot first, you win (presumably due to bullets throwing off your opponent's aim)
At first I thought this build would be unviable due to how quickly you drop, but it turned out that if you keep running, and just basically go behind enemy lines, you actually do surprisingly well, especially on CQB map like oasis, but its even viable on larger map with a lot of in door space. Stay inside and you'll rack up crazy amount of kills.
M1911 serve as a solid backup and ranged option for USAS12. You can also use SAIGA but I prefer the OH SHIT factor of an auto shotty.
|
|
|
Post by rubionubio on Jan 20, 2011 12:46:49 GMT -5
Definitely agree with the AN94 being truly awful. I was under the impression that most of the guns use sights that are accurate or at least similar to their real life counterparts; But if that's the case why in God's name would you force these poopy irons on a soldier?!?!
I think the M416 has absolutely spectacular irons, but I wish that the tip of the center point was painted white or orange or something because I sometimes lose it in the target. Same with the AEK... Great irons but sometimes I lose that thin centerpost in the target. I can't stand the M16's irons, which sucks because this is my main gun and I have to switch away from it when I need the extra smoke grenades on offense in rush.
I know a lot of people like the PKMs irons, but to me the over sight picture is awful. I love the front post, but the fact that the rear is on the body of the gun makes for a MASSIVE BLACK BOX at the bottom of your screen. If you even happen to flinch your target is lost inside your gun. Personally I can't use them, so I stick to the great iron LMGs so that I can run Increased Range on my lunchbox. I'm a medic for a reason, because my team needs me to keep them up and running. So I always take both perks for the lunchbox. I tend to stay back and provide a base of fire, and act as a mobile spawn point as well, so I'm not too concerned with Magnum and getting kills... I just want to suppress so my Assault buddies can go in there and clean 'em up. XM8, MG36 are my go to's here, and they also sport a really quick reload.
If I'm just goofing as a medic and am using it more like an assault class (like when there's another medic in my squad) I typically run the PKM w/ a red-dot or a 4x along with LMGMMN to provide more accurate spray.
Recon-wise, I want to love the Russian-style chevron reticles, but I have a hard time with them on some maps. Don't get me wrong, I love the VSS, but I'm not trying for extreme range shots with it most times... Where I struggle is with the SV98. I want more than anything else to be able to take the VSS with a 4x, but the ammo problem is immense.
|
|
|
Post by rudybojangles on Jan 20, 2011 13:13:41 GMT -5
Oh man, I have to disagree on that one. It's about the same as the G3, and the gun fires like it. The G3 has to be up there with best ironsights in the game... Of course, my opinion can be skewed. I just platinum-ed the Uzi in Nam as my first Nam platinum. For me, the always use the irons list are: G3 M1A1 ____ AEK XM8 (ALL OF THEM) F2000 M416 ____ 9A SCAR AKS ____ PKM M249 T88 MG3 (MG36 doesn't count ) ____ Best Ironsights: 1.) AEK 2.) XM8 all of them 3.) MG3 4.) G3 5.) PKM Nam Best Ironsights: 1.) RPK 2.) AK47 3.) MAC10 4.) PPSh 5.) M1 Garand
|
|
|
Post by infininja on Jan 20, 2011 13:47:45 GMT -5
I always notice having the smaller range on the med pack.
|
|
|
Post by drfluffy on Jan 20, 2011 14:21:22 GMT -5
m1a1 tommy gun's iron is really annoying to me, the three vertical line means I often confuse which line is center in heat of battle.
|
|
|
Post by raxcoswell on Jan 20, 2011 14:53:21 GMT -5
Yeah I'm terrible with the thompson irons. UMP irons though I find completely fine, it's one of the few auto guns I have over 20% accuracy with and I've never used optics on it. Re: real life, because your eye focuses and whatever, irons like the M16 are great, but that doesn't translate to when they're a foot in front of your face and everything is in focus at once. So you have the situation where the irons designed for quick and imprecise aiming are the most accurate. wild.
But yeah I use optics probably more than I need to because of the abakan. I was/am a huge abakan whore and as everyone has said, it has absolutely horrific iron sights, so I just got in the habit of using red dots.
Re: build of the day - I've started using a similar build to that a lot in core mode, it's great, especially on maps like Cold War. The range is surprisingly decent and the stopping power/forgiving approach to accurate shooting are fantastic. One of the few kits I'll run lightweight on too. I like playing with shotguns because I'm constantly so aware of the fact I'm useless at range, I actively seek to make sure all my engagements are as close as possible, and tend to end up more alive and effective compared to when I'll just run around with an assault rifle and not really care what happens. Restrictions promote creativity.
|
|
|
Post by drfluffy on Jan 21, 2011 0:50:10 GMT -5
I actually just had some great game with autoshotty + LW + extended mag, my secret? Spawn rush. Especially in Arica, where there are a lot of snipers at the spawn? You are their worst enemy, just goes in and consistently disrupt their snip-age, you will help them a lot, and each time you go in you can perhaps frag 3-4 wookies.
I maintain two accounts, one where I would role play as a tier 1 operative and just refuse to die. I snipe and camp a lot with silenced weapon on that account, and in my experience, the worst enemy of such a player is a LW equipped autoshotty user. Just because how much you are afraid of dying and the virtue of tactical loitering, you simply don't expect to be rushed by a shotgunner. You can really mess up their psyche and surprisingly single handly win by running around and snipe a lot.
Also, you can actually afford to sprint all the time because the DPS on autoshotty is so ridiculous that you can afford to undergo the lag between running to shotting.
|
|
|
Post by rudybojangles on Jan 21, 2011 13:24:55 GMT -5
I actually just had some great game with autoshotty + LW + extended mag, my secret? Spawn rush. Especially in Arica, where there are a lot of snipers at the spawn? You are their worst enemy, just goes in and consistently disrupt their snip-age, you will help them a lot, and each time you go in you can perhaps frag 3-4 wookies. I maintain two accounts, one where I would role play as a tier 1 operative and just refuse to die. I snipe and camp a lot with silenced weapon on that account, and in my experience, the worst enemy of such a player is a LW equipped autoshotty user. Just because how much you are afraid of dying and the virtue of tactical loitering, you simply don't expect to be rushed by a shotgunner. You can really mess up their psyche and surprisingly single handly win by running around and snipe a lot. Also, you can actually afford to sprint all the time because the DPS on autoshotty is so ridiculous that you can afford to undergo the lag between running to shotting. What's the effective range if you get to unload 12 shots without being fired upon in HC?
|
|
|
Post by klokateer on Feb 8, 2011 18:02:42 GMT -5
I love playing as CQC infiltrator.
My preferred setup is: Assault - F2000, Grach, Smoke 'nade or Shotty, Light Weight, Magnum Engineer - PP2000 or Shotty, Grach, AT mines, Light weight, Magnum Medic - G3 or Shotty, Grach, Light weight, Magnum Recon - Shotty, Grach, C4, Light weight, Magnum.
If I'm not in the face of the enemy team I'm bored.
|
|
|
Post by raxcoswell on Feb 9, 2011 20:26:37 GMT -5
I know it's crass as hell but last couple of play sessions if I'm doing CQC stuff with the recon I've been enjoying M95 4x. Basically just sounds/is satisfying to kill everyone with one shot. Plus I got a double kill by shooting two guys through the shin.
Otherwise your set ups are pretty similar to mine. I don't run lightweight that much though, and I've been using the XM8c over the PP2000. And I'd never really do it with a medic.
|
|
|
Post by klokateer on Feb 16, 2011 14:43:50 GMT -5
I understand what you mean with the OHK weapons at close range. The 40mm shotgun is a beast when you get the feel for it. I can't even count the number of times I've gotten double kills with it, even a few triples when I'm real lucky.
I've never run a BAR in a CQC situation but I imagine it's much the same as a shotty with slugs (thought I don't play that loadout much).
I use lightweight so much because I feel it's better to be elusive than having a few extra rounds/explosives. In a lot of situations I'll fire all weapons dry and end up hunting with my knife. I'm guaranteed to run across an ammo box eventually and the LW kit helps with knife kills and escaping fire you can't return quite well.
I've been meaning to peel awaay from the PP2000 since I got my 2nd platinum with it (1 on each character) but I just can't put the damn thing down.
As for medic... well I never really play it much anyway, but when I do, the CQC I am speaking of ends up being in my own base as Defense as I toss heal kits and paddle my buddies. Hanging out near an MCOM or flag will put me in range for a OHK from any shotgun I use.
If I'm playing Attacker as a medic, like I mentioned above, I like to be able to get behind cover quickly if needed so that I can be as mobile as possible while acting as a spawn point.
|
|
TheLegendaryJ
True Bro
If your reading this you don't need glasses...
Posts: 154
|
Post by TheLegendaryJ on Feb 22, 2011 15:10:17 GMT -5
Favorite Recon build, ever.
-Main>SVU -Sub>Anything -'Splosive>C4 -Perk 1>Red Dot -Perk 2>Body Armour or Magnum Ammo or whatever. -Vehicle Perk>Anything
Basically with this I'm a Recon on the offensive. This is the best for Conquest maps because you can throw Motion Sensors where your going and get easy kills if you spot someone (the SVU is the equivalent of a silenced M14,) and you will be able to aim down better with Red Dot. Also, since your running around all the time, C4 is better than a Motor Strike for obvious reasons. And the SVU has a longer life span than the VSS.
I love Recon.
|
|
|
Post by rubionubio on Feb 23, 2011 19:50:47 GMT -5
I'm with ya, but I prefer the VSS with extra ammo. Better for those times when you need to take advantage of the VSS being "the best shotgun in the game" lol
|
|
|
Post by raxcoswell on Feb 24, 2011 5:06:01 GMT -5
I used to prefer VSS but leaning towards SVU myself. however if I'm running that kind of recon I will probably switch back and forth a couple of times in a round, which I don't really do with any other loadouts
Talking of cqc medics, earlier this week on white pass I managed to get a revive and an (accidental) kill with a single charge. Was pretty great, but felt bad for the poor guy running round the corner in to my operating theatre.
|
|
|
Post by rubionubio on Feb 24, 2011 14:03:44 GMT -5
Haha yea, those kills are funny because you KNOW the guy on the other end is either FURIOUS at his luck, or banging his head on the table in futility.
Is it just me or is the Defib a more "forgiving" melee attack than the knife? It seems like it has a wider "spread" where it counts as lethal, and less "delay" between mouse-click and action?
Speaking of which, my God is adjusting from CoD knife to BC2 knife hard.
|
|
|
Post by ][nquisitor Mateo on Feb 24, 2011 19:12:08 GMT -5
^Easy, don't use the knife. It's stupid anyway.
|
|