battleaxerx
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Post by battleaxerx on Feb 21, 2011 3:41:11 GMT -5
Or should I say, "Lack there of?" I play HC and like using the shotguns for a change of pace, especially so far the HS10, but I got a hit marker... so close. I look at the damage graph, and then I look back at my file share clip. They ****ing need a new shotgun system. Does someone know how shotties are supposed to work in real life? Do they really use 8 huge balls per shell? Good gosh, it's painful, sad, and hilarious how dumb treyarch would have to be to think that shotguns are "usable." I mean, the whole deal with hipspread fluctuating is basically infuriating to me already. Top that off with low damage, low ball count, low consistency. IDFK what the hell is going on bro! Do I have to write a darn whizz gee letter to treyarch and let them know that they accidently made shotguns terrible? Or that maybe they should focus on making a bit of a change to shotguns? K SORRY, I am calm. Hey, bro, what would it take for shotguns to be "balanced?" end..... the rant that I just did.
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Post by 418Y on Feb 21, 2011 3:51:45 GMT -5
It's not shotguns. It's Touch Football. The main point of shotguns is that they can kill with one or two shots, having the best TTK at close range. Why using them in a mode in which you can oneshot everything with every gun, and also from farther ranges?
Let's talk Core. I do very very well with the SPAS. It's beastly, silenced, and easy to use. 3 k/d is always guaranteed. HS-10 is nice too if you want to ads and shoot a bit faster, good in S&D when you don't face multiple enemies that often. Olympia enphatizes this even more. Stakeout is the only shotgun I find inconsistent, it could use a buff. But the others are just fine: you just need to learn how and where to move in each map to own hard.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Feb 21, 2011 4:45:10 GMT -5
Shotguns are a bit weird in CoD, especially with the pellets flat out vanishing... that just seems stupid to me. The fact that you're unlikely to hit somebody with more than one pellet at long range should be enough. Or at least just drop the damage. But making them vanish 10 meters in front of your face is just dumb... but, eh... It's how it works.
Shotties worked pretty well in MW2. Some said too well, especially for secondaries.
Personally I don't see the need to segregate weapons into primary and secondary slots. I don't see why you couldn't set it up to allow people to pick any two weapons. That way they could choose weapons that offset each other's deficits if they wanted to. Swapping weapons would be sort of a mini class swap in those cases. Or they could chose something that works well over a wider range of circumstances and pair it with a more traditional secondary such as a pistol. The more traditional secondaries do what they're good at, they support the primary weapon by swapping in really fast when needed.
I think you would actually encourage people to use a wider variety of weapons instead of just sticking to the AR's if they could pick any two and swap between them. Of course they would also be vulnerable if they swapped them out a lot. Actually the secondaries in MW2 almost achieved this by including shotguns and MP's.
But meh... I'm sure 90% of the CoD community would hate it. I can't comment on BO shotties, though. What I've read about them doesn't sound good, though.
When it comes to shotguns in games I much prefer the L4D and L4D2 ones, they feel pretty good. Used to like the Halo:CE one too. In MW2 I gravitated towards Rangers and M1014. SPAS was good of course, but unforgiving. Never could get into the full auto ones. I like a shotgun that kills in one shot, otherwise it feels wonky. Though the AA12 could be effective within it's range... Then again I also have lost plenty fights within it's range, something that only happens with M1014 if I screw the pooch and miss and only with the Rangers if... I dunno... I was too slow? heh I feel like a shotgun should never lose a fight within it's range except maybe to another shotgun. *shrug*
Can't think of any other shotguns I've liked in recent games off the top of my head. I did love the original Doom shotgun, but probably just because it was the first one I ever used in an FPS. Mainly I loved the sounds, it was pretty damn inconsistent outside pretty friggin close range, though it worked well for peppering crowds at longer ranges. Sadly never got Doom 2 so I never used the super shotgun. Soldier of Fortune 2 was cool, but just for the fact of blasting away chunks of people. I don't really recall how the weapons performed all that much, never did play online.
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Post by rubionubio on Feb 21, 2011 11:14:04 GMT -5
Shotgun's as secondaries weren't BAD, but I wouldn't want them back I don't think. It marginalizes the Masterkey (which needs a huge buff and should be used more often IMO, but that's a statement more about how powerful the AR's are at all ranges than anything else), makes running a sniper rifle primary too painless (should be some sacrifice here IMO), and makes Overkill pointless kinda (whoopdy doo obviously).
Are those things worse than the positives like allowing a lot of diverse loadouts, rewarding players smart enough to minimize their class weaknesses, and being more realistic? Maybe, maybe not. LOTS of dudes on the SAW (maybe 11B w/ M4's did too, but it always seemed like it was a SAW operator) when I was in the Army used a shotty on a sling and would switch to it pretty regularly. After rock n' rolling from building to building, they'd swap to the M1014/M4 (collapsed butt on most of 'em) when entering a building, then stow it on exiting. I know CoDs aren't realistic, but I'm definitely in favor of anything that IS realistic while still being balanced. I'm just not sure if they were balanced or not.
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Post by Disgruntled Jigglypuff on Feb 21, 2011 11:18:21 GMT -5
The shotguns are my favorite weapon class in this game. I can tell you from experience that they are absolute garbage. I once got 14-ish hitmarkers with the HS10. You get knifed through your barrage of pellets constantly. You get 4 hitmarkers with the Olympia. You get five steady aim hitmarkers with the SPAS when the dude is only 5 meters away from you, then he just panic knifes and kills you. You use the Dual HS10 at point blank and occasionally don't even get a hitmarker. BTW, only use the Stakeout if your accuracy is top-notch with it, it is actually somewhat consistent in that case.
I've posted these clips before, but they showcase how inconsistent shotguns can be in their intended range:
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Post by chip sandwich on Feb 21, 2011 11:28:27 GMT -5
Olympia, SPAS12, dual HS10 - steady aim Stakeout, HS10 - sleight of hand
I've tried akimbo HS10s quite a bit, and I can really only make them work with Marathon and Lightweight, otherwise it's kind of tricky to get yourself into position quickly enough. With the Olympia and Stakeout you can risk a long range shot, and the SPAS and HS10 x1 can just spam and hope for the best, but for the akimbos you really need to get right in their face, and quickly. But then you become claymore fodder. All the other shotguns can get by fine with either Flak Jacket or Haxxor.
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battleaxerx
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Post by battleaxerx on Feb 21, 2011 15:58:18 GMT -5
"I once got 14-ish hitmarkers with the HS10. You get knifed through your barrage of pellets constantly. You get 4 hitmarkers with the Olympia. You get five steady aim hitmarkers with the SPAS when the dude is only 5 meters away from you, then he just Reflex Blades and kills you. You use the Dual HS10 at point blank and occasionally don't even get a hitmarker. "
That's what I assumed happens in core when I got a hitmarker in HC with the HS10 from I GUESS seven point five one meters away. I was pretty much ADS'd right at his solar plexis or stomach area.
You're totally right about the SO, accuracy and knowing when to ADS is key, it is good at ohko at max range in HC. LOL, I felt so hardc0r for using shotguns (Cuz all the kids use the simple stuff) and I took it to the next level using the SO without grip, heheh... Without grip it's still cool.
It's a lot of fun, but the system they have been using for years is 100% pure cut bullSHIP... I stayed up kinda late using shotties =\ Been using nothing but SoH... Not sure in the slightest about using SApro... I'll have to get used to normal patterns first, then see if I like what SA does...
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Post by mw0swedeking on Feb 21, 2011 16:06:35 GMT -5
In my experience the Olympia is very usable if you have sleight of hand, and the Spas is usable with steady aim. I wouldn't use them on array, but usually I can do pretty good. They aren't as good as the ARs, but I'd rather use either one of them than a 20 round SMG.
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battleaxerx
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Post by battleaxerx on Feb 21, 2011 16:26:13 GMT -5
"In my experience the Olympia is very usable if you have sleight of hand, and the Spas is usable with steady aim."
Heh, that's what I just tested and found out. I'm going to try the Spas again.
SA does NOT affect ADS spread, correct???
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Post by didjeridu on Feb 21, 2011 17:00:54 GMT -5
How would people feel if the Olympia had Dual Wield, and the HS-10 instead had Extended Mags (6)? This would make the HS-10 a great alternative to the SPAS if you don't care about silence, and the Olympia could offset the horrible reloads with alternating left and right shotguns, like with the Rangers. While the lack of ADS would do a bit to hurt the Olympia's ranged kills, I'm not sure if it would be too powerful.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Feb 21, 2011 17:33:31 GMT -5
I personally don't mind at all the Sniper Primary / Shotgun Secondary type of class. It's a good fit as far as addressing weaknesses, though both still leave the sniper weak at medium. As for it making Snipers too easy I have to disagree. The only secondaries with longer swap times than shotguns are launchers, and combined with Sniper Rifle swap times that's a horrible gap. A sniper/shotgun class has to choose whether to be effective at long range or short range ahead of time and manage their weapon swaps intelligently. (Though some animation cancelling can help.) Yes if they see someone coming they can take cover and swap, but if you get seen advancing on an enemy position you should be expecting that even with other kits than Sniper. (Sniper+MP on the other hands could have an argument there since the swap times were still quite good, especially on the Raff. And apparently akimbo glocks reap.)
Basically I think it's best to just get out of the mode of thinking of people as having ONE class and being pigeonholed into it. It made a lot of sense in TFC to force the classes to have key disadvantages that couldn't really be moderated too easily, right down to making snipers near helpless little sheep in CQB. But that was a game with dedicated (and defended) spawn rooms where you always knew the enemy had their side of the map and you had yours. It was easier to get to a location where you could snipe but probably not have to worry about close range encounters, (unless you let a spy jab a knife in your spine). It didn't even take much coordination to do so due largely to the maps designs.
But then, nobody accused you of tactical loitering in TFC, because that notion was stupid. You weren't tactical loitering, you were defending.
In CoD the game doesn't play like that. You rarely control the same territory for very long unless you're spawn trapping because the spawns keep changing as your team roves around for kills or objectives. Thus your wonderful sniping position 30 seconds later is likely to be enemy territory with them spawning all around you. Hell I played a game on Wasteland once where I thought I'd have some fun and snipe and during that match at one point I went around the entire map 3 times without seeing a single enemy because I never could catch up to where they were fecking spawning. lol Personally I hate sniping on that map, because anytime I'm out around the edge it seems that only one of 2 things happens. A. All the enemies spawn on the other side and I'm just left to twiddle my thumbs or try to go hunt them down, which usually only brings me to other snipers for them to kill me. B. They all spawn right around me and I can't snipe shit because I'm hiding or fighting for my life. I gave up and just started going for the tunnel. It's kinda like the house on Estate... it really isn't that strong a defensible location, but everybody fights over it so it's great for getting kills... making it a great place to take and hold. Of course it's also a huge explosives magnet.
The way I see it you don't have just one class in CoD. You get two classes that share perks, grenades and equipment. You just have to swap between them, and some swap slower than others. That swap time and the fact that you have to share all your other class attributes are the balance factors.
I loved shotguns in MW2 once I finally used them. Hell they were the only weapon worth a damn against commando knifing in CQ. I really loved sprinting to a nice CQ area with my SMG then going shotgun once I got there since in that spot I could one shot kill nearly everyone. It singlehandedly made Skidrow one of my favorite maps! Instead of skirting the edges like I used to with AR's I'd go strait for the middle and run the rooms with my Rangers... I miss that. The top floor of the house in Estate was great for the shotgunning too. I didn't bother in Rust... Felt too open despite being small. Some places in Highrise and Subbase were great too.
Oh well... maybe I'll still carve out a nitch for a shotgun class when I get BO... But I doubt it. I never could get into running a shotgun class in W@W. It's just too limiting when I'm not any good at pistols. I liked them better as secondaries.
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battleaxerx
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Post by battleaxerx on Feb 21, 2011 18:19:23 GMT -5
How would people feel if the Olympia had Dual Wield, and the HS-10 instead had Extended Mags (6)? This would make the HS-10 a great alternative to the SPAS if you don't care about silence, and the Olympia could offset the horrible reloads with alternating left and right shotguns, like with the Rangers. While the lack of ADS would do a bit to hurt the Olympia's ranged kills, I'm not sure if it would be too powerful. I feel the olympia would be best suited to a choke attachment, something that modifies spread, but in CoD, it would probably end up with damage and range changes too, who the F knows?. The attachment could for example modify ADS spread only and get it between 5 and 5.5, that way you can ADS walk and have the same tight pattern as with standing still or close to it. Don't know if you know this, but the Olympia is best at range when standing still, not ADS'd. I think that choke attachment would be brilliant. The HS10 ADS'd ohko range is really good thanks to the ADS pattern - 4.25. The HS10 is pretty beast while ADS'd, it's got my best KDR of any of the other shotties for that reason I suppose. Nearly a 3KDR. With SoH ghost and ninja, it's fine on ammo and killing power. Pretty good balance. Man, that choke attachment sounds really freaking cool for the Olympia. The irons are very familiar to me and awesome - I shoot shotties for trap. edit: I just learned that the HS10 dual wield is more trouble than it's worth. Probably in core too.
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kalar
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Post by kalar on Feb 21, 2011 21:36:36 GMT -5
How would people feel if the Olympia had Dual Wield, and the HS-10 instead had Extended Mags (6)? This would make the HS-10 a great alternative to the SPAS if you don't care about silence, and the Olympia could offset the horrible reloads with alternating left and right shotguns, like with the Rangers. While the lack of ADS would do a bit to hurt the Olympia's ranged kills, I'm not sure if it would be too powerful. Dual Wield shotguns are a useless addition IMHO. It's fine on SMGs or pistols because it actually changes the way you use them. For a shotgun, it's either going to be preferable always (Ranger) or utterly useless (HS-10). On the subject, shotguns feel really unloved only having one (or zero, lulz) attachment. Was this out of laziness on treyarch's part, or did they really just want to assert a seething, passionate hatred for shotguns? Sometimes I wonder why they even included them. How about this: Stakeout: Red Dot Sight, Holo, Extended Mags (to 6), Grip (Increases RoF by maybe, 20-25%?), Incendiary Rounds. SPAS-12 and HS-10 would have a silencer option instead of the Grip. Olympia: Speed Reloader, Grip, Incendiary Rounds, Sawn-Off. Sawn-Off would modify Spread to 7 at all times (moving or otherwise), reduce the range moderately, but bump damage up to 50 per pellet. Incendiary Rounds on all shotties would cause 30 fire damage over 5 seconds and prevent health regeneration, plus it would look wicked.
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battleaxerx
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Post by battleaxerx on Feb 21, 2011 22:03:15 GMT -5
Stakeout with RDS? So that people can make even more stupid attachment choices? =)
Huh, what else is fire and prevents health regeneration... Sounds very familiar... OH, Mass effect
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Post by didjeridu on Feb 21, 2011 22:26:00 GMT -5
Definitely yes to the Speed Reloader and Sawn Off for Olympia. Other than the reload speed, I love the Olympia, and that would really make me use it more. Sawn off would be a good choice for diversity, or just for screwing around. And I really want at least 2 attachments available for each shotgun. I like Warlord for the extra nades, and I really love me some double Tomahawks, but it's not exactly an option with the crappy attachment selection we have now.
Sight attachments are stupid and pointless for shotguns though. I don't agree with Inciendiary Rounds. Maybe if it simply stopped health regen, but the extra damage is too much. I'd rather they buff pellet damage or count for all shotguns, rather than give a "Stopping Power" attachment.
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Post by Contrary on Feb 21, 2011 22:43:58 GMT -5
What shotguns really need is Dual Mags. God this is such a powerful attachment. I would actually use the Spas ten times at much if it actually had reserve ammo via Dual Mags. Emags would be good too. But alas the only thing this speculation brings is pain.
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Post by didjeridu on Feb 22, 2011 0:38:12 GMT -5
I hate to ask, but how would dual mags work on a shotgun? Duct tape two shells together?
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kalar
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Post by kalar on Feb 22, 2011 2:48:18 GMT -5
I hate to ask, but how would dual mags work on a shotgun? Duct tape two shells together? Bandolier could make it's return as a shotgun attachment - doubles max ammo maybe? (would work in combination with scavenger if you really wanted that many shells). I liked the RDS on the SPAS-12 in MW2. It'd be useful now that ADSing with a shotgun is viable for certain class setups.
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Post by mw0swedeking on Feb 22, 2011 13:51:13 GMT -5
I hate how the Olympia is frie rate capped so low. I need to be able to pull that trigger twice dangit.
Also, thing looks great with dust camo.
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Post by illram on Feb 22, 2011 14:19:31 GMT -5
To me Stakeout and Olympia are the best shotties. I am pretty accurate with them at ~ 75% accuracy on both and the stakeout has decent 1 shot kill range both in and out of ADS.
Does steady aim work the same way it did in MW2? I.e. longer range due to tighter spread? I feel like it does because with steady aim on the stakeout I almost feel like I am in my MW2 SPAS-12 comfort zone firing from the hip.
SPAS in Blops just takes too long. If I want to take 3 shot to kill someone I will take an AK74u, thank you.
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Post by Aphoristic on Feb 22, 2011 17:06:59 GMT -5
The shotguns are my favorite weapon class in this game. I can tell you from experience that they are absolute garbage. I once got 14-ish hitmarkers with the HS10. You get knifed through your barrage of pellets constantly. You get 4 hitmarkers with the Olympia. You get five steady aim hitmarkers with the SPAS when the dude is only 5 meters away from you, then he just Reflex Blades and kills you. You use the Dual HS10 at point blank and occasionally don't even get a hitmarker. BTW, only use the Stakeout if your accuracy is top-notch with it, it is actually somewhat consistent in that case. I've posted these clips before, but they showcase how inconsistent shotguns can be in their intended range: Those clips were both latency problems, not shotguns being broken.
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kalar
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Post by kalar on Feb 22, 2011 20:19:36 GMT -5
The shotguns are my favorite weapon class in this game. I can tell you from experience that they are absolute garbage. I once got 14-ish hitmarkers with the HS10. You get knifed through your barrage of pellets constantly. You get 4 hitmarkers with the Olympia. You get five steady aim hitmarkers with the SPAS when the dude is only 5 meters away from you, then he just Reflex Blades and kills you. You use the Dual HS10 at point blank and occasionally don't even get a hitmarker. BTW, only use the Stakeout if your accuracy is top-notch with it, it is actually somewhat consistent in that case. I've posted these clips before, but they showcase how inconsistent shotguns can be in their intended range: Those clips were both latency problems, not shotguns being broken. The second clip, possibly was lag-related. The first clip had to do with cover between the shotgun user and the would-be victim. Neither one was fair, and both should have been a kill for the shottie user if all things were fair. The shotgunner was in a situation where his weapon should reign supreme - If you take your time to ensure that encounters are only in close-quarters and within your weapon's -very- limited range, there is no excuse for those hitmarkers. And the supposed lag issue is going in an entirely different direction, and it should be fixed. This makes me pine for Gears of War 3, where at least any lag issues will be relatively equal amongst the players due to dedicated servers.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Feb 22, 2011 21:26:57 GMT -5
Nothing unfair about either one. The first one is just bad luck with the spread pattern, but chit like that is going to happen when there's only 8 pellets and you give your enemy that much cover. He probably only connected with a couple of pellets on either shot. Tough luck, but it's not exactly unfair. It does suck that shotguns have so few pellets and such a wide spread, but that's just how it is. Maybe try SA to choke them down a bit if you want...
As for #2 I'm not so sure they were lag since you see the killer take damage when it shows the encounters from his point of view. These are theater mode and thus should be the host's perspective. If these were lag related then the shotgunner's view would be the same but the killer's view should show them getting the kill before taking any damage, just as the killcams show in MW2 when you get multiple hits on someone that knifes you and then you see yourself not even fire a shot in the killcam.
Unless theater mode does not work the way killcams used to and actually shows the killers taking damage from shots that never actually connected in the live game due to them killing the shotgunner I don't think these were lag related. (Though they happen fast enough that it seems like that would be the most likely culprit.)
However, even if these are lag related dedicated servers wouldn't fix it unless the killer was host. Everybody else is basically on theoretical equal footing with the lag advantage. Lag and lag compensation just is what it is. Shotguns theoretically should be able to abuse it more than most weapons due to the ability to 1 shot kill within effective range, though I don't know how good that shotgun is at doing so. It's what I used M1014 and Rangers for in MW2. Some bad patterns are bound to happen too, though.
It is kinda sad, but I wouldn't call it unfair. Shotguns just aren't that great in BO apparently. Would be nice if they were competitive, but apparently Treyarch aren't shotgun fans. In MW2 they were capable and offered a wide range of variance. In BO they're mostly samey and sucky... oh well.
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kalar
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Post by kalar on Feb 22, 2011 21:37:37 GMT -5
As for #2 I'm not so sure they were lag since you see the killer take damage when it shows the encounters from his point of view. These are theater mode and thus should be the host's perspective. Right, and if I pull around the corner with a shotgun that should 100% OHK you, and you have the same, we both react at the same time ,but you have the best connection (or ar even the host), how is that fair? Either the second clip was really, really horrible luck to not even get a hitmarker, (even if he did, 16x pellets = 30 damage each, not getting a kill is pretty awful luck), or it was a latency issue. I wouldn't call either result "fair". And it doesn't have as much to do with shotguns being horrible, it goes right to the heart of their inconsistency.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Feb 23, 2011 1:33:08 GMT -5
In a head to head around a corner as long as neither player is the host it doesn't matter so much which has the better connection as you might think. If you have the slower connection it does mean that your shots arrive at the host later than his, but it also means that your avatar is lagged further behind you as you round the corner, which gives you back that time before your enemy can react. Even if he has a very good connection the data of you coming around the corner still has to get to the host and then from the host to him, and he has to then physically react, then his shots have to get from his client to the host.
The advantage, really, goes to the one coming around the corner. Whoever sees the other one first has the advantage, because you can start shooting immediately while your avatar is technically still around the corner. This actually works even to some extent against the host. In other words you come around the corner and see the host standing there and you react quickly, firing at him. The host won't see you round the corner and start firing at exactly the same time you do, but the time between you coming around the corner and when you start firing should be about the same for him, giving him the same amount of time to react to you as you had to react to him. If he doesn't react fast enough he dies, and you win. But if he does then you die and any shots you fired but the host had not yet received will be ignored.
Having a better connection or being host definitely does confer a general advantage, but in a lot of situations it actually evens out and even if you are the laggier player you can make lag work for you rather than against you if you know what you're doing. That's why it's as fair as it can be.
Network latency is a fact of life. There is no game out there which can be programmed to be clairvoyant enough to remove latency from the game entirely. Lag compensation, however, does about as well as can be achieved. There are probably lots of tweaks that could improve the netcode, but it's about as fair as you can make it. If you really want to play without any lag then you pretty much have to be in the same building with everyone. Granted, the game could probably improve it's matchmaking as well, but I don't know about that specifically. I do recall much discussion about MW2 matchmaking, but then again Treyarch didn't even use the MW2 engine, they used an upgraded W@W engine.
Bad luck with crappy shotguns is fair because crappy shotguns are crappy... and everyone can choose to use them, or not. Nobody forces you to use the crappy SMG's, or shitty pistols, or whatever either. Some of the weapons either by accident or design just do not perform well or consistently. Sure for a given individual encounter it might be unfair. But so would getting several bad recoil kicks in a row with an AR, SMG, or LMG. Or getting a bad respawn. Ect... There are lots of random unfair circumstances, but they average out. And those averages end up influencing the weapon balance. But it's up to the individual player to learn the effectiveness of the weapons and decide for themselves what works.
I'm still not sure quite what was going on in the second vid. The fact that you do see the killers taking damage in their feed suggests that it wasn't lag related, but doesn't prove without a shadow of a doubt. But then, like you say 16X30 is a lot of damage. At 30 you'd only have to connect with 4 pellets to kill and that means up to 12 could miss. From the shotgunner's point of view they actually do look like lag related deaths to me, in which the killer was just able to get the kill before the shotgunner was. And in at least one of them I'm fairly certain the killer wasn't the host because he wasn't aiming anywhere near the shotgunner when he died. He was aiming behind him at where the shotgunner would have appeared on his client. The shotgunner came around a corner which should have conferred him with the lag advantage, but then he didn't start shooting right away and gave it up, probably trying to get closer. The enemy saw him come around the corner and probably started shooting right away. Hmm.. actually reviewing it there was cover across the killer's legs which may have also blocked some pellets, whether that had anything to do with it or not. The shotgunner basically walked right into his sights, I'm not surprised he died on that one, only that the killer's video shows him taking hits but not dying. hmmm...
It's the last death on the video and actually that one IS lag. The shotgunner rounds the corner and fires two double blasts from his shotguns then dies. On the killer's cam there is only 1 double blast and the shotgunner dies before the 2nd. The cover and bad luck are probably why they survived the first double blast.
The 2nd and 3rd look more like the shots just missed and grazed the killers. My frame rate on the video isn't that great and I can't pause it too well, plus it's theater mode so we can't be sure anyway. But it just looks like neither of those shots were on target. In the 3rd one the enemy might have even taken damage from another source, right at the kill, but I doubt it. They don't even get blood on the screen, though. So they must have only been hit with like 1 pellet or something. I dunno.
The first one... that's the headscratcher. Point blank range, aim looks good, hit shows up in killer's cam. That one doesn't look like lag unless there's some reason a lag ignored hit would show up in theater mode. So my only guess is really bad luck at the moment. ;p
The other's look explainable by known effects.
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Post by Contrary on Feb 23, 2011 2:02:51 GMT -5
No man take it from someone who's been through about a dozen routers in the last year- connection makes a humongous difference. I mean you can still win kind of with a bad connection, but you really have to stack things in your favour a LOT.
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Post by themccannman on Feb 23, 2011 2:10:30 GMT -5
BO is broken beyond repair, resistance is futile
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True Bro
KROGASM!!!
Posts: 151
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Post by ninja on Feb 23, 2011 7:25:10 GMT -5
I'd personally prefer shotguns if they:
Fire 12 pellets, with altered damage to balance it back. Were worked out to a max range of 20 metres. Pellets went to 5 damage min instead of 10. Negated Second Chance. Hip fire maybes a point lower. So, something along the lines of
SPAS 12
MAX: 20 Damage Decrease starts at 7.5m MIN: 5 at 20m
At least that way I would feel like I could defend myself at anything past arms reach :/
Don't get me wrong, I love shotguns, but sometimes it feels like I put a Super Soaker in my Create-a-Class.
EDIT: Actually, 12 pellets is nuts at 25 DAM. Changed to 20?
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Post by toolshed33 on Feb 23, 2011 10:36:34 GMT -5
and wordy bastard at times. ;p .....qft! anyway, i've only fired bird shot irl, but.. the dropoff in accuracy or w/e in bo is crazy.. might as well be using a spear, it would have the same range. which reminds me of the ultimate battle in ops.. when i'm running around with ballistic knives out and find a shotgunner. brutal. one way or the other.
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mannon
True Bro
wordy bastard PSN:mannonc Steam:mannonc XB:BADmannon
Posts: 15,371
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Post by mannon on Feb 23, 2011 11:27:44 GMT -5
Yup. I'm a verbose kinda guy... ;p
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