AN-94 or M16A2?

[fuloser]

What is better to use?

[novem]

Whatever you like more.

[url00]

If you miss with the AN-94 you waste less ammo.

[raxcoswell]

If you want three bullets to come out when you pull the trigger I'd go for the M16. If you'd prefer two, I'd suggest the AN-94

[][nquisitor Mateo]

Neither, the AEK is an automatic version of both.

Don't limit yourself.

[phale]

Well, the AN-94 does have greater damage at close range and is a teeny bit more accurate. If you're willing to cope with the burst fire, I'd go with the AN-94. The M16 is almost completely outclassed by the AEK.

[raxcoswell]

Although I mostly use the AEK these days, I actually really really like the handling of the two-round burst. Completely hate the three-round though so what the flip

[fuloser]

I'll try AEK for a bit, never considered it. I just noticed in ttk charts m16 was good and have seen other threads talk about AN94 but never seen comparison with m16

[][nquisitor Mateo]

AN-94 was by far the best gun back before the major patches.

I used to play on the console, so back when the AN-94 had 20-16.7 damage, the consoles got an extra +25% magnum effect on top of that, plus I gave it regular magnum myself, making it a 31.25-26 monstrosity.

God I miss that.

But yeah, now the AN-94 is beaten by the AEK. AEK has higher RoF, so they are about equal at close range, but the AEK can put out far more damage at long if you can aim. Plus, it isn't buttFoxtrot ugly.

[grimnebulin]

Feb 22, 2011 18:37:00 GMT -5 novem said:

Whatever you like more.

Just this ^^^

I blow with the AN (forever locked at 195 kills cause I suck with it). And, I have a Platinum Star with M16A2. Why? No better reason than the M16 just *clicked* with me... Stupidly so, like 70-15 (K-D) rounds on occasion (and I don't camp, ever).

Try 'em both. Then try this...

M16A2 + 40MM SGN + 4x OPT + MAGNM AM + MP-443

... You're welcome (maybe )

[grimnebulin]

Feb 22, 2011 23:05:57 GMT -5 ][nquisitor Mateo said:

AEK has higher RoF, so they are about equal at close range, but the AEK can put out far more damage at long if you can aim. Plus, it isn't buttFoxtrot ugly.

Like mateo suggests, might as well try the AEK too as it is like taking the training wheels off the M16, in a sense.

I found the AEK poo unless I put marksman training on it (MMN AR) and burst fired. BUT, I ran the M16 with magnum... So, for me, advantage went to the M16A2.

Try it, but use what you like.

[dog]

Feb 22, 2011 20:31:28 GMT -5 ][nquisitor Mateo said:

Neither, the AEK is an automatic version of both.

Don't limit yourself.

AEK has an ideal rate of fire which is much, MUCH, lower than both burst fire guns.

Not to mention the recoil is much higher too.

[novem]

Rate of fire you meant is higher in AEK?

[raxcoswell]

Might be wrong, but I think he means the quickest firing rate you can sustain without getting escalating spread etc. Basically, the two burst fire guns are innately more accurate.

[rubionubio]

Yes, but the temptation on those guns is to clickclickclickclickclickclickclick for me, so the spread gets absolutely rediculous.... The AEK however, once you can keep the RPM down to about 450-500 it's beast. Amazing irons, awesome 40MM loading animation (so used to seeing the M209 that it's refreshing to see the Soviet/Russian version), and it sounds sweet to boot.

Although I personally stink with it, I will definitely say that this:

Feb 23, 2011 0:00:21 GMT -5 grimnebulin said:

M16A2 + 40MM SGN + 4x OPT + MAGNM AM + MP-443

Is a VERY good loadout, and one that is going to be successful in a wide variety of situations. This is like "how to build an optimized class 101" lol. I don't think the reasoning behind it being so great even needs explaining.

[dog]

Feb 23, 2011 13:13:54 GMT -5 raxcoswell said:

Might be wrong, but I think he means the quickest firing rate you can sustain without getting escalating spread etc. Basically, the two burst fire guns are innately more accurate.

this.

Unless if you have a macro to make the AEK fire @ 500 rpm,
the AEK is sub par compared to AN94/M16 in most engagements imo.

Also, the recoil of the gun ain't exactly pretty.

[][nquisitor Mateo]

How do you make a macro anyway?

[rubionubio]

By sacrificing your Integrity to the Gods of Hubris and Deceit and hoping they grant your wish to "pwn nuubz".

Just kidding. Sort of.

The answer to your question is AutoHotKey. However, it's just really not necessary, and will only get you banned from any server worth a gosh darn golly gee whiz.

[][nquisitor Mateo]

^Well, I guess Den didn't like my findings. Oh well, more for me then.

[dog]

Posting this up for people who're interested in the ideal RoF (w/o abusing it).


Click here and see what happens when you use Marksman perk thingy thing.

EDIT:
@ mateo
I think Den removed that thread because of your unbro-ish reply especially the last post.

[rubionubio]

Is it bad of me to be upset that I missed it? gosh darn golly gee whiz, why did I have to pick TODAY to be the day that I don't constantly lurk

<3

[][nquisitor Mateo]

The only unbroish behavior was all the whining.

I stand by my statement: CRY SOME MORE.

[raxcoswell]

Yeah I was away for the weekend and I missed drama?

[dog]

Feb 28, 2011 8:37:21 GMT -5 raxcoswell said:

Yeah I was away for the weekend and I missed drama?

You didn't miss much. Just mateo posting "CRY SOME MORE" with a video of TF2's Heavy weapons guy spinning up his Sasha.

[raxcoswell]

Sounds better than most of my posts

[raxcoswell]

:\/

just looked at your MMN spec. charts. For real? MMN affects a few guns massively, and doesn't really change anything else? (except LMGs which all seem to do okay out of it)

[rubionubio]

Wow, I just took a look at those charts for the first time and WOW. I'm a little surprised at a few of them (almost all of the AR's not affected by MMN at all? Ideal Firetime/ROF doesn't change?), and a little... Happy in my pants with a few too. The SAW just got even better in my eyes... 2nd fastest ideal firetime in the game along with 200 rounds, good damage, decent irons... WOWEE.

Actually, looking closer there appears to be quite a lot of guns whose "Ideals" don't change? Is this just because you didn't calculate it or is it actually not changing based on the new spread amounts?

[dog]

MMN does improve accuracy of all guns.

Only thing is that the spread on most of them are still greater than 0. Hence why the ideal rof didn't change.

Example:
AEK's Spray added/shot is 0.125. With MMN, its 0.0375. Although its much more accurate, it still has spray. Ideal RoF assumes the spray is 0 or less.

Another way to put it:
AEK with MMN going full auto (800 RPM) has spray added/shot of 0.0375.
AEK firing @ 514 RPM has spray added/shot of 0.

Additional garbage:
The "IF" statement in the Ideal RoF column basically works like this:

If "spray added/shot" is less than or equals to 0,
then, 60 / firetime,
else, 60 / (zoom spray / recovery per sec)

something like that.

[rubionubio]

Hmm... It's too early and I have a degree in history so I can't understand your maths conceptually, possibly also because I don't think I get fully how spread/MMN/time/etc. all work together.

I just assumed that because MMN gives you less spray, you could essentially shoot it faster because the recovery time would be quicker, since the number that the "recovery factor" was working against was smaller. Doesn't that seem logical? I dunno, that's why I think I don't get it conceptually because I just don't see how it DOESN'T work that way, if that makes sense?

I appreciate your work on the stuff, I'm just trying to establish whether there's any real benefit to using MMN on the AR's and the majority of the SMGs. There's a clear benefit on the LMGs that tend to use though.

[raxcoswell]

Yeah I don't have no scienceman degree either but I think the ideal ROFs are when there's no spread at all. With MMN you reduce the extant spread a lot, but not down to zero? But yeah you'd think thered be some overlap, unless the curve of unidealness is just flattened. I have no idea! Why am I even making this post