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Post by 418Y on May 11, 2011 15:05:42 GMT -5
Hi Bros;
I've played a lot this game and I must say, there's nothing I can b1tch about but one thing: the Carl Gustav.
It's ok when you kill someone tactical loitering in a house, or when you blow up a guy's cover and take him out. I use it too, very often. But I don't find it fair when you blow up someone in the open, without even have to aim accurately, and with the option of going back to cover without being exposed for more than a second.
Don't misunderstand me; it's a weapon that should be in the game. But I think it's BF3 equivalent should be tweaked with this little thing: if the rocket explodes in an open area, let's say a street or a hill, its blast radius is reduced to something like the current AT4 (either you hit him close to the feet, or you'll get an hitmarker). With his fast speed and the fact that you don't have to expose yourself for as long as a Rifleman, that huge radius is, imho, not balanced. This little tweak sounds reasonable to me.
Thoughts?
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Post by kirbyderby on May 11, 2011 15:24:59 GMT -5
Hmm... I usually pack an AT4 on my engie, so I can't really say I have much experience in that aspect, although I can understand where it could feel cheap, and I certainly die to the CG more than other rockets...
While it can be a cheap death I don't really think the CG is overpowered since you get limited rockets and only one shot before you reload. However... now that I think about it, an assault/engie squad with CG's and extra rockets, etc. could be a real pain for the enemy.
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Post by raxcoswell on May 11, 2011 17:56:04 GMT -5
i'm not sure. on paper it seems overpowered but in practice it doesn't hassle me so much. i don't get killed by them ever so much, and I use the 40mm and RPG judiciously against infantry and they do very well - the extra blast radius isn't that much of a deal unless you're always missing, I guess. plus it's also a bit of a handicap - with the CG, you wont be killing any tanks, and that is in my mind the prime role of the engineer. yeah you're good against infantry, but an assault with 40mms is probably still better.
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Post by kirbyderby on May 11, 2011 19:04:41 GMT -5
I still kinda like the thought of a squad full of engies running around with CGs. You know, for the lols.
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Post by url00 on May 11, 2011 21:09:05 GMT -5
CGs kill me all the time. From sniper ranges too. It is one of the worst parts of the game.
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Post by klokateer on May 12, 2011 8:24:16 GMT -5
I try not to bitch about much either but the CG is definitely on my list of things I hate about this game.
I play Hardcore so you can imagine it's even more a pain in the ass for me than normal mode players.
I don't understand why this rocket has the fast flight time that it does. I think it would be better balanced if the RPG and CG switched rocket speeds.
If you hear a CG launch and it happens to be aimed at you, you have no time to react and even if you do the splash radius is large enough to get you no matter what happens.
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Post by kirbyderby on May 12, 2011 13:04:40 GMT -5
Yeah, playing hardcore I can see the CG being massively annoying. ... Maybe I should use it more often.
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TheLegendaryJ
True Bro
If your reading this you don't need glasses...
Posts: 154
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Post by TheLegendaryJ on May 17, 2011 14:02:32 GMT -5
It's overpowered, trust me, I have such high kill streaks with this thing I should be banned for it. Basically this weapon truly makes the Engie the most balanced out of all the classes for all the range it gets with this bad boy.
Annoying getting killed by them? Yes.
Rewarding killing with them? Priceless.
I remember my longest kill streaks with Carl, playing Rush on the desert harbor level (can't pronounce the name) and we were at the last base. I still had full rockets and decided to shell the building at a fair range. My good ol' buddy teammate popped my an Ammo Box and I was happy. I kept on shooting any signs of movement hiding in that area and occasionally popping a rocket at the in-placed weapons for an extra 100+ points. I got two Combat Excellence Pins that round because I kept killing all that tried to defuse the charge.
Brofist to Carl.
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Post by raxcoswell on May 17, 2011 16:35:01 GMT -5
the desert harbor level (can't pronounce the name) african hardboard
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Post by Danthemanpr on May 19, 2011 10:13:56 GMT -5
It has always been the most overpowered weapon in the game, moreso than the M60 or AN94 ever were. I feel like a very slight nerf to the damage radius would be a good solution, similar to what they did with the 40mm grenade launcher (which is quite balanced now, IMO).
Alternatively, forcing a delay when you switch to it would be quite a nerf. It is far too easy to instantly switch over and poop out a rocket when you get ambushed. Even the AT4 is a serviceable close-range weapon if you use it this way, and it should not be.
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Post by field on May 21, 2011 20:27:10 GMT -5
I I don't understand why this rocket has the fast flight time that it does. . I know we arent really talking about realism here per se but you should youtube 'rpg' and see how fast those things move for real. Think of them more like a bullet than a rocket, its pretty scary.
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Post by klokateer on May 23, 2011 16:14:57 GMT -5
I know we arent really talking about realism here per se but you should youtube 'rpg' and see how fast those things move for real. Think of them more like a bullet than a rocket, its pretty scary. I'll never forget the first time I saw the movie "Saving Private Ryan". Tom Hank's unit is taking cover in tall grass as a German tank rolls by. Suddenly they hear yelling and the camera shows a US soldier squad RPGing the tank. The special fx make it look like they fired a shotgun at the tank, then the tanks tracks blow off. I know that's only movie special effects... but I looked up RPGs afterword and found out they really do move so fast you almost don't see the rocket, only the exhaust sparks and smoke. anyway, the Gustav should, imo, have the slowest flight time if it's going to get the largest splash radius. I don't know why that isn't common thinking but I'm not a game developer either.
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Post by 418Y on May 23, 2011 18:17:45 GMT -5
Lol, I'd like to see this on BC2 happening 1 time out of 100.
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Post by field on May 23, 2011 20:10:35 GMT -5
Im not a gustav whore per se but i feel it is balanced with the other launchers.
Gustav: Fastest rocket speed. Faster reload. Least damage RPG: Slower flight time and reload but higher damage. AT4: Slowest flight time, good reload speed, highest damage, it can be guided.
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Post by kirbyderby on May 23, 2011 21:45:29 GMT -5
Im not a gustav whore per se but i feel it is balanced with the other launchers. Gustav: Fastest rocket speed. Faster reload. Least damage RPG: Slower flight time and reload but higher damage. AT4: Slowest flight time, good reload speed, highest damage, it can be guided. And this is true, as far as vehicle demolitions go... but I believe the main issue being discussed is the CG's explosive damage combined with fast flight speed and a large blast radius, which is what makes it so deadly vs. infantry.
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Post by klokateer on May 24, 2011 9:01:18 GMT -5
Im not a gustav whore per se but i feel it is balanced with the other launchers. Gustav: Fastest rocket speed. Faster reload. Least damage RPG: Slower flight time and reload but higher damage. AT4: Slowest flight time, good reload speed, highest damage, it can be guided. you should research this stuff before posting man. Den has all the figures on his xanga blog for bc2. The Gustav is discussed as being OP because of it's blast radius against infantry. Anyway, the Gustav and RPG have the same reload. The RPG is not slower than the Gustav. The AT4 has the same flight speed as the Gustav, absolutely not the slowest rocket.... also, if by "good reload speed" you mean "slowest reload of all 3 launchers" then ok. because it's the slowest reloading launcher.
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Post by 418Y on May 24, 2011 11:09:04 GMT -5
"Highest damage" and "Least damage" are not correct expressions imho because you have to differenciate between target.
Let's say Lethality is a function of Radius and Damage when it comes to Infantry, while against Vehicles the Lethality is simply the Damage.
Gustav = High Infantry Lethality, Low Vehicle Lethality, Fast Travel Speed. RPG = Low Infantry Lethality, High Vehicle Lethality, Slow Travel Speed.
Unfair if you ask me, they should travel at the same speed. And with "the same" I mean at Slow Speed, to keep them balanced with the other weapons. Honestly, I've rarely seen people complaining about the RPG on Infantry, where everybody b1tch when he gets CG-Sniped.
It's also true that the CG has a little reload advantage when it comes to reload canceling!
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TheLegendaryJ
True Bro
If your reading this you don't need glasses...
Posts: 154
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Post by TheLegendaryJ on May 24, 2011 14:07:53 GMT -5
It's also true that the CG has a little reload advantage when it comes to reaload canceling! I beg to differ, I always reload cancel with the Gustav and the split second difference can save you life sometimes. Sometimes...
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Post by ][nquisitor Mateo on May 24, 2011 19:06:17 GMT -5
CG is fine. It's the other launchers that suck. It will never be overpowered because bullets have much longer range.
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Post by klokateer on May 25, 2011 10:26:23 GMT -5
CG is fine. It's the other launchers that suck. It will never be overpowered because bullets have much longer range. it's a rare breed that doesn't consider the Gustav to be OP. But you also defend using MKII explosives in my other thread. It doesn't surprise me that you'd say such a thing about a fire and forget weapon that poses so little risk to the user. Bullet's may have longer reach, but they have no where near the casualty radius that a Gustav round has. Not only that but you can fire a Gustav and run away immediately, sometimes netting 2 or more kills at a time. When using a gun, you must aim and expose yourself until the enemy is dead. And unless the enemies are standing in a straight line looking at you, you cannot take multiple down with the same round which allows them to fire back while you are aiming at only one of them. The Gustav does not suffer this weakness.
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Post by 418Y on May 25, 2011 10:54:41 GMT -5
Not only that but you can fire a Gustav and run away immediately, sometimes netting 2 or more kills at a time. When using a gun, you must aim and expose yourself until the enemy is dead. And unless the enemies are standing in a straight line looking at you, you cannot take multiple down with the same round which allows them to fire back while you are aiming at only one of them. The Gustav does not suffer this weakness. Exactly this. The only rocket with such a blast radius should be one with the AT4 targeting system, that for the most part requires you to be exposed for the entire time, and if you want to run for your life your rocket will be likely to miss the target.
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Post by rubionubio on May 25, 2011 12:10:04 GMT -5
Give me an RPG any day. It's actually effective versus vehicles, AND can kill infantry and blow down cover with ease, once you learn to lead for the slow rocket speed.
Also, it looks way more badass while reloading/shooting/etc, especially with the SPECACT model imo.
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Post by ][nquisitor Mateo on May 26, 2011 18:13:33 GMT -5
Bullet's may have longer reach, but they have no where near the casualty radius that a Gustav round has. It's not just that, it's that it's visible and easy to defend from. If you aren't near cover, then it's a problem with your playstyle, not the weapon. Not only that but you can fire a Gustav and run away immediately, sometimes netting 2 or more kills at a time. When using a gun, you must aim and expose yourself until the enemy is dead. And unless the enemies are standing in a straight line looking at you, you cannot take multiple down with the same round which allows them to fire back while you are aiming at only one of them. The Gustav does not suffer this weakness. And if this was true, everyone would run around with gustavs, wouldn't they? Perhaps there are other factors? The gustav can't fire enough to suppress an area, it can't reliably kill someone from long range, it can't kill one person after another after more arrive. A G3 with ACOG and 300 RPMs can do all of these things.
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Post by kirbyderby on May 28, 2011 13:42:55 GMT -5
Bullet's may have longer reach, but they have no where near the casualty radius that a Gustav round has. It's not just that, it's that it's visible and easy to defend from. If you aren't near cover, then it's a problem with your playstyle, not the weapon. Not only that but you can fire a Gustav and run away immediately, sometimes netting 2 or more kills at a time. When using a gun, you must aim and expose yourself until the enemy is dead. And unless the enemies are standing in a straight line looking at you, you cannot take multiple down with the same round which allows them to fire back while you are aiming at only one of them. The Gustav does not suffer this weakness. And if this was true, everyone would run around with gustavs, wouldn't they? Perhaps there are other factors? The gustav can't fire enough to suppress an area, it can't reliably kill someone from long range, it can't kill one person after another after more arrive. A G3 with ACOG and 300 RPMs can do all of these things. I believe this is part of the problem. Since it cannot perform said actions, it just becomes a killwh*re weapon. It's meh against armor and can't do much to help the team, and has multiple enemy and long range ineffectiveness, so it's really just an Engie not doing what an Engie should do. Much like those Touch Football Recons. While you could Engie up and use the CG on non-vehicle maps (or squad DM), then you're just being a Troll Engie. I call shenanigans on the CG.
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Post by saddaminsane on May 29, 2011 14:43:36 GMT -5
whenever i'm on the assaulting team in rush and the defenders don't have vehicles, i always used CG to take out Heavy MG and just killing people in general, but i always do so with direct impact, at least i think i do. It fills the anti-camper Niche better than any other explosive weapon, mainly because of how fast it travels and it's personel damage. I say it should retain it's fast travel speed, but lower the radius. We don't need the large blast radius if it's strong against infantry anyways.
also, a fun little tactic i like to use to troll defending teams if my team gets blackhawks: use engineer with extra rockets and explosive damage, stay in the side seats (f4 or f5). Get your carl gustav ready to blow up MGs and other stationaries, while repairing heli whenever it gets damaged. Make sure you have a pilot who wont abandon ship as soon as it gets scratched though! works for assault using toobs from heli too, but not as awesome as engi who can keep the hawk in the sky
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TheLegendaryJ
True Bro
If your reading this you don't need glasses...
Posts: 154
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Post by TheLegendaryJ on May 30, 2011 12:49:45 GMT -5
whenever i'm on the assaulting team in rush and the defenders don't have vehicles, i always used CG to take out Heavy MG and just killing people in general, but i always do so with direct impact, at least i think i do. It fills the anti-camper Niche better than any other explosive weapon, mainly because of how fast it travels and it's personel damage. Thank god someone understands me.
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Post by klokateer on May 31, 2011 9:08:35 GMT -5
whenever i'm on the assaulting team in rush and the defenders don't have vehicles, i always used CG to take out Heavy MG and just killing people in general, but i always do so with direct impact, at least i think i do. It fills the anti-camper Niche better than any other explosive weapon, mainly because of how fast it travels and it's personel damage. Thank god someone understands me. if only more people used it as such. instead I see the majority of gustav users shoot at anything and everything that moves with their rockets. I get killed by suicide gustav noobs who shoot the ground to get a kill and die in the process enough that it is a well worn groove now in my gears.
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TheLegendaryJ
True Bro
If your reading this you don't need glasses...
Posts: 154
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Post by TheLegendaryJ on May 31, 2011 12:56:16 GMT -5
Thank god someone understands me. if only more people used it as such. instead I see the majority of gustav users shoot at anything and everything that moves with their rockets. I get killed by suicide gustav noobs who shoot the ground to get a kill and die in the process enough that it is a well worn groove now in my gears. That is the stupidest idea I have ever heard of. Random Noob, "IMA TRY 2 KEELZ SUM N00B$ W1T ROOKET HJUMPN TROLL0L0L0L0L0L0L00L184574283758" *dies* If your going to use a weapon, use it for intended purposes only, and not using CQC tactics for sniper rifles you CoD bums.
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