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Post by saddaminsane on Aug 28, 2011 10:17:09 GMT -5
As title states Wouldn't it be nice if the spotting on BF3 worked like this: Spotting someone would produce the same red triangle as now, but it doesn't follow the player- instead, it stays in the same spot and changes transparency depending on how far away the player has moved. EG: If someone is spotted and stays in the same place, the red triangle is bright- but if the player moves away, the triangle fades. The triangle would completely disappear once the player has moved about 5 meters away from where he was originally spotted. A common complaint about how spotting works in BC2 is that once you get spotted, you can expect to get shot at by multiple sources, especially if the enemy team spots often. Running in the open is a huge risk for the rushing team- especially in maps with little vehicles. The benefits of this mechanic is that players that are constantly moving/ rushers won't suffer as much while campers/ defenders will be spotted more easily. The negatives of this are that spotting vehicles won't do too much- but hey, it's not hard to notice a giant flying metal death machine right?
I also wish the blinding effect that BF3 has with it's laser attachment right now exists in MW3 too :/
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Post by didjeridu on Aug 28, 2011 10:41:14 GMT -5
I like it. I'd love for spotting to be minimap only, but it gives campers and wookies too much of a break. The main problem I have with spotting is that it neuters offensive play.
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phale
True Bro
Posts: 635
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Post by phale on Aug 28, 2011 13:35:04 GMT -5
Another spotting mechanic that could possibly be combined with yours is a simple bright red highlighting of the player model. Instead of the current 3D spotting that is visible through all cover, a highlighted player model would prevent the random shooting at triangles that BC2 is famous for. Combined with a stationary, fading marker, spotting would become effective both an effective anti-camper mechanic and also a good team support action while not making target acquisition too easy.
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Post by raxcoswell on Aug 28, 2011 20:16:46 GMT -5
i'm actually pretty okay with how spotting works
as for offensive play, I'm not sure it neuters it so much, because as i'm sure you've all found, one of the best ways to kill/neutralise large swathes of the enemy team (the prerequisite for any base-taking) is to be holed up somewhere in the enemy's base and have them all furious at your existence and charge in one at a time to die
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Post by didjeridu on Aug 28, 2011 20:34:32 GMT -5
True, but it's mostly getting to the enemy base that's the problem. And it's mostly from a Rush perspective; you can do whatever you want in Conquest, since it's just a glorified TDM. There are many occasions where you need to cross large, open spaces to advance. Doing so is already bad enough with large maps and larger team sizes since you can be gunned down from any direction, not to mention getting blasted by vehicles. It just gets amplified when one glance from one player alerts the entire enemy team to your exact presence. Spotting the Defense team doesn't do much. It's already obvious where they should be hiding, and killing them is only of brief benefit.
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Post by raxcoswell on Aug 29, 2011 10:24:02 GMT -5
I can guess it would be a big pain if you were advancing on foot in say, the opening stages of Harvest Day or Port Valdez. But in those situations, I hate advancing on foot regardless. Something big but open like the opening of Atacama, you can beam round the side/back on a quadbike. Even if you get spotted, you'll then be out of sight enough for the triangle to go, even if someone knows 'someone' is back around there. Something like the last stage on Isla Innocentes I guess it makes a hard job even harder.
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Post by themccannman on Aug 30, 2011 22:51:23 GMT -5
i've definetely gotten my share of random sniper kills through the trees just by aiming a red triangle lol, i think to even out spotting players should be notified when they have been spotted so they know when to go stealthy or when to just run for cover.
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Post by saddaminsane on Aug 31, 2011 10:02:01 GMT -5
sometimes i get into i gun fight i know i can't win (im an engi vs enemy medic) so i just spot, run behind a penetrable piece of 'cover' and spray at the triangle
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Post by raxcoswell on Aug 31, 2011 20:29:41 GMT -5
I look at piles of bushes and hit 'spot' and hope it gives me a triangle to spray it. this is probably abuse.
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Post by Keralastic on Aug 31, 2011 20:58:43 GMT -5
I wish they'd make the spotting more like BF2, where you could point out spots of interest regardless of if there was enemy there. That was handy.
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Post by saddaminsane on Aug 31, 2011 22:49:09 GMT -5
unfortunately BF3 is going to have a broader audience- with bigger audience comes a greater range of players, which includes trolls who would abuse that function But that sounds mighty useful- as long as servers can maintain their player base
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Post by didjeridu on Sept 1, 2011 16:51:48 GMT -5
I look at piles of bushes and hit 'spot' and hope it gives me a triangle to spray it. this is probably abuse. Yeah...I've adopted a "technique" where I sweep the land near enemy territory with my crosshairs while spotting. It gets me a lot more random spots than it should. On the flip side, I get really upset when a spotted target has terrain between them and me. I sometimes shoot an entire magazine at the triangle before I figure it out. It would be interesting if a spotted target only showed up for teammates who have a clear line of sight of the target.
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Post by Keralastic on Sept 1, 2011 17:26:00 GMT -5
That could have the downside of an enemy being spotted, and the teammate inside a building 5 feet away not being able to see him.
Maybe a different icon if there's no line of sight?
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Post by saddaminsane on Sept 1, 2011 21:00:01 GMT -5
speaking of spotting
@ 10:30 there's new spotting
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Post by didjeridu on Sept 2, 2011 14:42:30 GMT -5
It's kind of funny. I subscribed to pixelenemy about a month ago, and I quickly got fed up with them and unsubscribed recently. Their videos were pretty boring, the commentators I saw were very amateur, and their montages were absolutely terrible. This video on the other hand was pretty informative. Maybe I'll give them another chance. On a side note, I die a little inside when I see people using Tracers and RPG/Gustav.
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Post by saddaminsane on Sept 2, 2011 18:12:16 GMT -5
^ why? It provides the amatuer engineers something to effectively take out tanks with, plus it's hilarious to use on people
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Post by didjeridu on Sept 2, 2011 19:24:13 GMT -5
Because if you're using a launcher other than the AT4, you're not a real Engineer. People using the RPG are usually newbies who don't know any better, and people using the Gustav are usually scumbags. Besides, any driver/pilot who's bad enough to get tracer'd would go down more quickly with the AT4 anyway; not to mention that you'll never, ever take down a good pilot without an AT4. It's nice to help out newbie Engies, but the pistol is too vital to sacrifice.
Now that I think about it, is there any sort of Tracer-like weapon/equipment in BF3? Depending on how the equipment/specializations/whatever are set up, I'm sure there would be a better way to squeeze a support option like that in without sacrificing a sidearm.
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Post by raxcoswell on Sept 4, 2011 14:44:07 GMT -5
I main engineer and AT4 is my least used of the 4 gadgets. It's too specific and focused, and too damn slow. Against people it is worthless, against ground vehicles it is just a slower RPG, and it has very limited utility against air vehicles. RPG is fire and forget., therefore much quicker. It reloads faster, and it does much better against people. The only things the AT4 has going for it is anti-helicopter (which I'm no good at and have never seen anyone be good at on 360) and hitting things round corners (very limited utility). beyond that it's just a worse RPG. because i'm a real engineer.
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Post by raxcoswell on Sept 4, 2011 14:47:18 GMT -5
'good pilot' is set up to be a tautology so not much to go on there. but really, very few great pilots take smoke in my experience (exception blackhawk), and therefore, taking them down with a tracer is way easier than AT4
basically AT4 currently seems to have the weight of 'received wisdom' behind it, without people adjusting it to themselves. If you can't take a chopper out in 1-2 tries, you're a fool to take it over the RPG, and even then you're just swapping your anti-infantry to anti-helicopter. and there's a bunch more people than helicopters.
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Post by didjeridu on Sept 4, 2011 18:29:30 GMT -5
It is a focused weapon, with the main focus being precision. It definitely shines when it comes to helis, but it's just as good against tanks. Unless they're an intelligent tank driver, which is pretty rare, you can easily curve the rockets to hit the side or rear of the tank. And however small the bonus, it's still the launcher with the best damage versus vehicles. The only downside it has it that you must be somewhat exposed to guide it. That's also where curving rockets around corners and terrain comes in. You don't need to have your target in view until the rocket has traveled most of the distance; in fact, it's a lot more effective when the enemy doesn't see it coming head on. Also, it's perfectly fine against infantry, as long as you have a real target and aren't just mindlessly lobbing rockets in the general direction of the enemy. One of my favorite pastimes is to "counter-snipe" wookies with the AT4. It's pretty easy to manipulate them, since most of them are in-scope for the majority of the game. But yeah, it wouldn't be my first choice when it comes to dedicated anti-infantry. Then again, that's not what Engies are about.
The RPG is certainly usable at close range, but anywhere else it's child's play to dodge without a tracer: regardless of what vehicle you're using (on foot as well). It's fine against infantry at closer ranges, but that's not the launchers' main purpose. If you manage to hit vehicles with the RPG, then it's pretty decent. It just has the lowest potential since it's so easy to shut down. The Gustav sucks versus vehicles, but at least it's easy to hit them with it. And I don't know how the pilots are on console, but none of the ones on PC who don't crash 10 seconds after takeoff ever die to RPGs. Even with the tracer boost, they're just too slow. Most pilots on PC are at least capable of dodging RPGs, since the bad/mediocre pilots would rather be a gunner anyway.
I used to use nothing but the RPG myself. The AT4 is really frustrating if you're not experienced with it. It takes a lot of dedication and patience. You just have to keep trying, and eventually you'll get better. Once you do, it becomes pretty clear how bad the RPG/Gustav are for vehicles. I really hope there's a similar launcher to the AT4 in BF3.
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Post by undoubledzim on Sept 8, 2011 10:07:23 GMT -5
All 3 of the launchers are very good. I prefer the RPG for regular matches AT4 for helo heavy matches and I dont use the gustav much although its quite capable of taking down circle strafers too
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Post by saddaminsane on Sept 8, 2011 22:26:48 GMT -5
quick questions- 1) does anyone know how much damage the .50 cal Sniper does to a helo / light vehicle? 2)do vehicle perks stack? I was in a server with many good pilots using vehicle armor, i finally managed to hit one with the AT4 +exp MK, but it still didn't go down. Apparently they told me vehicle armor overpowers explosive upgrade- is this completely true? 3) does hitting a specific location on a helo matter like it does for a tank?
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Post by kirbyderby on Sept 8, 2011 23:45:07 GMT -5
quick questions- 1) does anyone know how much damage the .50 cal Sniper does to a helo / light vehicle? 2)do vehicle perks stack? I was in a server with many good pilots using vehicle armor, i finally managed to hit one with the AT4 +exp MK, but it still didn't go down. Apparently they told me vehicle armor overpowers explosive upgrade- is this completely true? 3) does hitting a specific location on a helo matter like it does for a tank? 1) I can't remember exactly, but the damage is small. 2) Armor only counts if the driver has it, and only the driver's Armor counts. 3) No. One damage zone.
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Post by themccannman on Sept 8, 2011 23:46:48 GMT -5
i think i remembered the M95 doing something like 17 damage or so to heli's...? or i could be completely wrong soooooooo
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Post by raxcoswell on Sept 9, 2011 12:29:36 GMT -5
yeah 17 came to my mind too. so what's that, six of you at once?
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Post by themccannman on Sept 9, 2011 17:53:08 GMT -5
yep, 1 more than you get in a clip, how convenient
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Post by SheWolf on Sept 11, 2011 7:09:48 GMT -5
quick questions- 1) does anyone know how much damage the .50 cal Sniper does to a helo / light vehicle? 2)do vehicle perks stack? I was in a server with many good pilots using vehicle armor, i finally managed to hit one with the AT4 +exp MK, but it still didn't go down. Apparently they told me vehicle armor overpowers explosive upgrade- is this completely true? 3) does hitting a specific location on a helo matter like it does for a tank? 1) I can't remember exactly, but the damage is small. 2) Armor only counts if the driver has it, and only the driver's Armor counts. 3) No. One damage zone. 3) you can, however, disable the pilot with a well aimed or lucky shot. especially hilarious in blackhawks if the passengers don't understand what just happened.
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Post by rudybojangles on Sept 12, 2011 11:50:39 GMT -5
It seems like a lot of my prayers have been answered, but this is an old blog post I wrote up for DRMB. It has been confirmed that the spotting system is getting an overhall, javelins and stingers are going to be in the game, and aircraft have limited ammo/countermeasures.
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Post by SheWolf on Sept 13, 2011 3:37:18 GMT -5
i'm pretty sure fov was adjustable in bc2..not ingame, but easily changed via the settings.ini. it was only a little hard to calculate because they didn't go with the usual cod-like degree thing but with some odd radial solution..made for some hideous fishglass effects when done wrong.
but anyway, you can change fov in bc2.
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Post by undoubledzim on Sept 13, 2011 17:20:02 GMT -5
buddy of mine came up with the idea for blood trails a short ways after being shot
not sure how they would implement it but seems like a cool idea
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