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Sept 30, 2011 17:49:55 GMT -5
Post by raxcoswell on Sept 30, 2011 17:49:55 GMT -5
rubio: i'm on console. pc can run it though, so i might give it a go.
anyway, just played a lot. once when i got revived I couldn't shoot any of my guns at all, and a couple of times the sound went quiet, but otherwise it ran totally fine. guess i just had some bad luck first time.
anyway, i got a feel for stuff now, and i'm really liking how this plays a lot
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Sept 30, 2011 22:54:42 GMT -5
Post by kirbyderby on Sept 30, 2011 22:54:42 GMT -5
This beta needs a mute button.
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Oct 2, 2011 13:46:22 GMT -5
Post by Durfee on Oct 2, 2011 13:46:22 GMT -5
It feels like you are moving in water. I'm disappointed.
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Oct 2, 2011 19:52:50 GMT -5
Post by turdferguson on Oct 2, 2011 19:52:50 GMT -5
Does anybody know of a website that lists the order of unlocks for each class and/or unlocks for each level? I am at 17 right now, and am curious about what I have to look forward to / how much more time I should put into this beta.
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Den
He's That Guy
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Oct 2, 2011 20:03:07 GMT -5
Post by Den on Oct 2, 2011 20:03:07 GMT -5
Does anybody know of a website that lists the order of unlocks for each class and/or unlocks for each level? I am at 17 right now, and am curious about what I have to look forward to / how much more time I should put into this beta. The Battlelog.
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Oct 2, 2011 20:03:27 GMT -5
Post by infininja on Oct 2, 2011 20:03:27 GMT -5
Does anybody know of a website that lists the order of unlocks for each class and/or unlocks for each level? I am at 17 right now, and am curious about what I have to look forward to / how much more time I should put into this beta. battlelog.battlefield.com/Beat by mere seconds.
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Oct 2, 2011 20:28:38 GMT -5
Post by volgon on Oct 2, 2011 20:28:38 GMT -5
Does anyone else feel like Rush is always massively inbalanced in regards to Attack vs Defense? You would think Dice would have picked up on that by now and done something about it. Infinite respawns + no respawn timer + infinite camp spots = easymode. I felt the same way when I played BC2 to the point where I would actively try and not get on the Attacking team. It's no fun running into a meatgrinder every other round. Even if you have a good team it's total hell.
Before anyone says to just wait for Conquest, I don't like TDM games. I find Objective modes more compelling and will likely very rarely play Conquest/TDM.
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Oct 2, 2011 20:47:27 GMT -5
Post by rubionubio on Oct 2, 2011 20:47:27 GMT -5
Volgon, I definitely hear what you're saying, and definitely agree with you in relation to public/pick-up games, but I think the tables are turned when we're talking about actual organized play. Obviously DICE didn't balance around organized play, but that's just the way it works out imo. And even then I still see all sorts of random-ass teams on offense just steamroll the defense; It's all about momentum in pubs. Once you crush the first or second set of boxes the defense just gives up.
In organized games the offense has the advantage (in my opinion) because of the fact that they initiate contact in most cases. In every respect this gives them the advantage, because they choose where and when they're going to attack, and can choose to redeploy/etc. and the defense doesn't really have that option since they have to cover all their bases (literally). I think if you look at stats from high level play (I know this is the case on my server in BC2) the offense wins more than the defense, and by a wide margin. Now when we open it up to the public it's about 50/50, but that's what we're looking for right?
Ideally I would like to see the offense able to take out 4/5 or 3/4 MCOM stages on average. It makes that last stage super-intense, and both sides get to feel good (the offense at first and the defense at the end).
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Oct 2, 2011 21:08:27 GMT -5
Post by turdferguson on Oct 2, 2011 21:08:27 GMT -5
Does anybody know of a website that lists the order of unlocks for each class and/or unlocks for each level? I am at 17 right now, and am curious about what I have to look forward to / how much more time I should put into this beta. The Battlelog.I didn't preorder from origin, so I can't access that apparently.
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Oct 2, 2011 21:09:24 GMT -5
Post by saddaminsane on Oct 2, 2011 21:09:24 GMT -5
Rubionubio makes a good statement, but all that is contradicted by the the running-takes-more-damage glitch. Until then, defense still has a slight advantage
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Den
He's That Guy
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Oct 2, 2011 21:39:16 GMT -5
Post by Den on Oct 2, 2011 21:39:16 GMT -5
Does anyone else feel like Rush is always massively inbalanced in regards to Attack vs Defense? You would think Dice would have picked up on that by now and done something about it. Infinite respawns + no respawn timer + infinite camp spots = easymode. I felt the same way when I played BC2 to the point where I would actively try and not get on the Attacking team. It's no fun running into a meatgrinder every other round. Even if you have a good team it's total hell. Before anyone says to just wait for Conquest, I don't like TDM games. I find Objective modes more compelling and will likely very rarely play Conquest/TDM. Yup. I would expect a time limit instead of limited lives in such a game where death is often abrupt, unpredictable and generally the result of the enemy tactical loitering spawn points. A terrible player can rack up loads of deaths, causing an even more alarming limit to the entire team. That the Attackers' "time limit" is literally determined by the weakest links on the offense is ridiculous. The Attackers are already on the fence since they actually need to do something - all of my victories as an Attacker on Rush were a result of me and many others relentlessly crashing the MCOM locations (WWII Russian style) until we simply overpower the Defense by numbers alone, fighting against a fluctuating, abstract clock just as much as we are against the other team. Having a standard time limit at each MCOM wave would be appreciated and ultimately nothing would change except that bad players on Offense don't ruin it for the rest of their team. If the attackers never make it past the first Wave, the average game length in Metro seems to be about eight to ten minutes, sometimes rounds last as short as six minutes if the defense moves up and actively camps the Attackers back in their spawn.
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Oct 2, 2011 21:45:39 GMT -5
Post by volgon on Oct 2, 2011 21:45:39 GMT -5
And once your team gets locked into a First Wave spawn trap, you pretty much can't get out because Defense will just use all the cover that Offense is supposed to be using. It's beyond frustrating when you spend more time running back to the objectives or waiting to respawn than playing the actual game.
Maybe things will change at launch when the damage bug is removed but that's not really the issue I have. Sure, you die pretty quick. But you'd probably have died anyway since Defense just has to hunker down in some hidey hole that you didn't notice. I know it would never get implemented but I'd like to see something like +25 tickets to Attackers, hell give them a Ballistic Vest so they take an extra bullet to die. Anything to help, it's miserable in pubs.
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Den
He's That Guy
Posts: 4,294,967,295
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Oct 2, 2011 21:59:44 GMT -5
Post by Den on Oct 2, 2011 21:59:44 GMT -5
Flip the idea on its head. Instead of a standardized time limit or limited tickets for one side...
Limited tickets for both sides.
Attack gets 99 tickets, Defense get 99 tickets. If the Defense takes out all Attackers, they win. If the Attackers take out all the Defenders' tickets, they move on to the next Wave of MCOMs automatically and their tickets are set back to 99.
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Oct 2, 2011 23:08:48 GMT -5
Post by saddaminsane on Oct 2, 2011 23:08:48 GMT -5
Isn't that like TDM now, but the map only changes if attackers win? I like the idea of a time limit better- it takes away the detriment of having bad team mates and puts attack and defense on a more even level.
But a simpler solution is not letting defense get radio beacons. I know that sounds harsh for defense, but i ABUSE the radio beacon as defense. Guys like me need to be stopped- defense already has the advantage of being able to set up LMG guys quickly and have unlimited lives. Getting to spawn behind the attackers is unfair and game breaking.
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Oct 2, 2011 23:35:51 GMT -5
Post by volgon on Oct 2, 2011 23:35:51 GMT -5
The map will only change if the Attackers win as it stands. If they lose the game is over, I don't see how this would be any different except it attempts to even out the Attack vs Defense imbalance.
Disabling radio beacons wouldn't be a simpler solution because that isn't the biggest issue at hand. It's frustrating to the Attackers, yes, but far from being the biggest problem. I have a bigger issue with how ridiculously easy it is to Defend simply because Defenders only have to camp behind cover. They don't have to move at all if they didn't want. They're harder to spot, have better vantage points resulting in killing fields, and are typically much more difficult to root out than any Attackers. On top of all of those issues already, it's a long run back from the Attacking spawn point if your squad is dead, not in a good position, or just not where you want to be.
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Oct 3, 2011 4:03:34 GMT -5
Post by SheWolf on Oct 3, 2011 4:03:34 GMT -5
i like the idea with a timelimit better too..hell, i'd even say get rid of the kill/death counter and give points for killls only if they were team actions (mcom defense and such). that way we would see more of the daring suicide attacks on mcoms that ususally progress the attacker team a stage. if they work.
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Oct 3, 2011 6:53:01 GMT -5
Post by raxcoswell on Oct 3, 2011 6:53:01 GMT -5
I've had no real problems with attack/defence in the beta. So far I've won every game I've played, and unsurprisingly been about half attack and half defense. in my overall experience attack is easier. The downside of attack is that you can be let down by your own team. I've never ragequit a game because of the enemy, but because of my team, sure. The downside of defence is that it is boring and reactive. In my experience, if you're attacking in two places at once, you mostly win. Carrying on from above comments re: attacker initiating combat, the attacker knows more about the defender than vice versa, by and large. Despite the ticket system indicating the contrary, basically defenders have to watch the mcom and the attackers have to kill defenders (dead people are terrible at defusing bombs). Also attackers almost always get a better array of cars etc. But yeah, if me + 1-3 competent players + luck = wins regardless of attack or defense, I don't think it's hugely imbalanced.
My main problem with the setup is that I find defence very boring, and the way to make it interesting (keeping a high line and actively hunting attackers) leaves huge gaps behind you.
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Oct 3, 2011 7:30:37 GMT -5
Post by raxcoswell on Oct 3, 2011 7:30:37 GMT -5
Hate posting from my phone. Can never see what I've already written so posted early to make sure I wasn't repeating myself and missing out dozens of words.
But, another point which is much more of a factor, imo, is levrel design. The first stage of Oasis. That's horrible to defend. Tanks can sit miles away shelling you, you're vulnerable if you're anywhere useful, and that's not even getting to what is undoubtedly the most infuriating chopper in the whole of bc2. First stage of vantage point is horrible to attack (in my experience if you don't get one mcom in the first minute, you've lost most of the time. The last stage of nelson bay is horrible to attack. That big B building is easy to defend, and the only viable flank route (across from A) can be watched over by defenders in their spawn that you are forbidden to go stab. The first base on Arica is hard to defend. A gets dropped by a tank in their spawn, after that they outnumber you with tanks, out maneouvre you with cars and bikes, and have those hills around the base for the demise of anyone diligently sat around pointing his gun at the B mcom.
And even then, in public games, the (total lack of) team balance is almost always the deciding factor. It's so rare to have a game that isn't either won by the defenders at the first base or is an attacker win. The only levels I can think of where this happens at all frequently are nelson bay, white pass, oasis, harvest day and arica harbour. And for all of those it's always the very last stage. The interim 1-3 stages just seem like filler.
That said, I don't know if I'd like more or less variance in the difficulty of certain stages. Against good attackers, the first base of Oasis is genuinely really unenjoyable to play.
Edit: totally forgot 2nd stage of Arica. B is another dropped-by-tank-from-spawn base, but I've seen a fair few attacks flummoxed by that little A garage. Then again stuff like that might be why Arica is my favourite level.
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Oct 3, 2011 14:39:39 GMT -5
Post by rubionubio on Oct 3, 2011 14:39:39 GMT -5
Having a time limit vs ticket limit would be something interesting to try out, but since I feel that it's already balanced attack/defense you can imagine that removing the ticket count makes it even more imbalanced in favor of attackers.
What you guys are describing in regards to defense only having to camp choke points and auto-win is absolutely not the case whatsoever. Look at it this way: Most rush maps have several "waves" of good defensive chokes that you can choose to set up at. Everything in-between is flank-city, or too wide a front, etc.
-- If you, as a team on defense, choose to set up your defense at the "first" grouping of chokes (furthest from the MCOMs, which are usually also the most effective chokes) then you're *extremely* vulnerable to a stealth insert approach because you're set up so far away from the MCOMs. Anyone trying to hoof it back to disarm (which in most pubs any idiot will go try to do even if it means running halfway across the map) has almost no chance of getting there on time and surviving to disarm, AND they just left their defensive choke wide open to allow the offense to openly penetrate and then the front is collapsed and it's a huge clusterfrak.
-- If you choose to set up your defense at the actual MCOMs in order to provide the fastest response and to eliminate the stealth insertion approach (where the offense actually chokes YOU in your spawn) then you're vulnerable to the human wave, because once the offense has taken out a group of defenders there's no "buffer" space between the collapsed defense and the next choke point where you can re-orient your defense around. You're basically gambling that you can *always* win the heads-up gun fight, because if you lose even one the stage is overwith.
Am I doing a good job explaining? I'm honestly not sure if I'm getting my point across well enough, but regardless the TL:DR is that, once again, offense dictates the match-up and has more advantages then you're giving them credit for. And I'm not even getting into the vehicle advantage that offense usually has like Rax is talking about.
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Oct 3, 2011 14:41:41 GMT -5
Post by pooneega on Oct 3, 2011 14:41:41 GMT -5
PS3 bro here. I fall through the floor constantly, I throw nades randomly, icant sprint after I throw nades, I get those white flashes at least twice around, due to falling through the floor constantly.the game freaks out when somebody is glitched im the ground and they die and the game flings their dead body way across the map. Snipers seem inconsistent.. Sometimes it takes 4 hit markers to kill, others ittakes omly 1. Are betas supposed to be this glitchy? Sorry for typos im on my phone typing this
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Oct 3, 2011 14:45:49 GMT -5
Post by rubionubio on Oct 3, 2011 14:45:49 GMT -5
PS3 bro here. I fall through the floor constantly, I throw nades randomly, icant sprint after I throw nades, I get those white flashes at least twice around, due to falling through the floor constantly.the game freaks out when somebody is glitched im the ground and they die and the game flings their dead body way across the map. Snipers seem inconsistent.. Sometimes it takes 4 hit markers to kill, others ittakes omly 1. Are betas supposed to be this glitchy? Sorry for typos im on my phone typing this Well technically, yes, they are supposed to be. However, I have literally not had any of those issues that you're talking about on PC, so maybe it's just a PS3 thing?
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Oct 3, 2011 17:27:03 GMT -5
Post by saddaminsane on Oct 3, 2011 17:27:03 GMT -5
i just thought of something. What if you had a riot shield in BF3? It could do 25 damage- possible to wield a pistol with, but can be realisically broken? (firing ~ 10-15 large caliber rounds into it)
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Oct 3, 2011 19:03:15 GMT -5
Post by turdferguson on Oct 3, 2011 19:03:15 GMT -5
PS3 bro here. I fall through the floor constantly, I throw nades randomly, icant sprint after I throw nades, I get those white flashes at least twice around, due to falling through the floor constantly.the game freaks out when somebody is glitched im the ground and they die and the game flings their dead body way across the map. Snipers seem inconsistent.. Sometimes it takes 4 hit markers to kill, others ittakes omly 1. Are betas supposed to be this glitchy? Sorry for typos im on my phone typing this Well technically, yes, they are supposed to be. However, I have literally not had any of those issues that you're talking about on PC, so maybe it's just a PS3 thing? I have those problems too on xbox. I constantly have trouble with being unable to sprint. I've found that I need to take my thumbs completely off the sticks for a second or two, and that usually resets it. The white flashes mostly happen on the first base, and not every game (or I cease to notice it after a few games). As for falling through the floor, I think everyone has experienced that. Are other people having these problems, too?
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Oct 3, 2011 19:58:43 GMT -5
Post by raxcoswell on Oct 3, 2011 19:58:43 GMT -5
Main problems I have now is not getting in to games with my pals. I know they've said it's shaky for whatever reason, but I hate playing this game without my bros. The only other thing I'm not understanding is how lag works in this game. A few times I've been shot right after I've fired a rocket and it hasn't fired. But numerous times I've been killed whilst shooting someone, and even got multiple hitmarkers, but the killcam shows them at 100% health. I assumed if the hitmarker shows then the server knows what's up. What is going on there?
rubio: i get exactly what you mean and totally agree. Even ignoring the whole static defense vs dynamic offense set up - which obv favours the dynamic - the limited choices defense has to make all have disadvantages inherent in them. The advantages all have workarounds, chiefly flanking and destruction. The only true advantage defenders get is when their spawn area is directly useful, like the last stage of White Pass, where it's around 2 inches from the B MCom. The guys there can't get flanked. But on first bases this works the other way, with things like A on Arica 1 being genuinely undefendable. There's no way you can trash a tank at the back of their spawn before it can drop A if it knows what it's doing. So that one goes both ways. Whenever there's a chokepoint then yeah, the defenders have a solid advantage. But there are very few chokepoints, and even fewer unavoidable ones (last stage of Isla Innocentes is one). And even when they're unavoidable, the attacker tends to get a Bradley. On defence, sometimes you can get played. There's some squad that has decided to live in your spawn and refuses to get wiped out or whatever. But whenever I lose on attack, I always feel like it's either my fault or the fault of other people on my team. Defence basically poses an always-solvable problem for the attackers, and it's on them to decide if they're good enough to do it.
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Oct 4, 2011 0:28:45 GMT -5
Post by Mr.Bob Loblaw on Oct 4, 2011 0:28:45 GMT -5
Recurring Problems: -sound and sprint was unstable -for all the games I was in, there was quicksand at the first A bomb you can get stuck in -I got the aforementioned ADS issue once out of 6 or so games -A guy on my team said "Okay major glitch. I have no gun." -ya, it needs a mute button...how do I mute xxxDaPl4y4xxx???
I've never played a BF game and this was a very enjoyable experience. I wish I could know how I can help out my team more. Woodysgamertag put up a couple BF for noobs vids that I plan to watch, but if any bros can point out a thread for beginner tips and tricks, I'd appreciate it (after a scan I couldn't find anything).
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Oct 4, 2011 1:55:21 GMT -5
Post by Keralastic on Oct 4, 2011 1:55:21 GMT -5
I decided to reinstall it, and now that I've kinda settled in, it's actually pretty fun now. It's a lot less of a hassle once you get the ACOG and the foregrip and such.
I had a weird occurrence while defending the first set of objectives. Three guys crawled up next to those rocks in front of the A objective, and I mowed down two of them, then noticed my bullets weren't affecting the third guy. I figured he was just a teammate, so I stopped shooting. But then he turned around and killed one of my teammates, so I emptied the magazines of my AK-74 and my G17C into him and he didn't even notice. He was completely invincible.
He turned around and killed me afterwards, and I don't think I saw him again after that. His KD was 4/8, so I guess he had died before. I'm not sure what happened there.
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Oct 4, 2011 4:55:30 GMT -5
Post by pooneega on Oct 4, 2011 4:55:30 GMT -5
The whole attack vs defense advantage is a lil bit weird to me. I personally think that the only reason defense has an advantage currently is because they have unlimited spawns. Sure, attackers can dictate where interactions happen to a point, but the defense knows a pretty visible area (at least on all attacking stages of Metro in BF3) where the attackers HAVE to be if they're actually playing the gametype. As said before, if the attackers get caught up in playing TDM then they're gonna lose. I know 100 tickets is a fair amount... especially since the count starts over every time the round advances to a different stage of the map. But I dont like the idea of having to be cautious about my life OR being considerate of other peoples lives on my team in a video game ever haha probably why I shy away from SnD in COD.
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Oct 4, 2011 6:25:16 GMT -5
Post by raxcoswell on Oct 4, 2011 6:25:16 GMT -5
Woodysgamertag is very much a cod player. Haven't seen anything by him recently, but last battlefield vid I saw of his was him running around a squad deathmatch with a red dot on an lmg. I don't know many decent battlefield videos though. Most of the watchable ones have nontactical commentaries, montages are useless. Dontrevivemebro does have a few decent videos in its section though (but also a large amount of poo). I'm also managing to forget the names of notable uploaders who are decent at battlefield. Except the russian badger, and you're like to get around 30 seconds of tactical talk or tips for every hour you spend watching him. I'm sure some of the guys here could knock up a useful tips thread, though
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mannon
True Bro
wordy bastard PSN:mannonc Steam:mannonc XB:BADmannon
Posts: 15,371
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Oct 4, 2011 12:12:29 GMT -5
Post by mannon on Oct 4, 2011 12:12:29 GMT -5
It feels like you are moving in water. I'm disappointed. Movement feels very awkward to me a lot of the time as well. I think it is a lag issue. In addition to the wishy washiness of it I sometimes get my avatar doing odd little steps instead of smooth movements when I try to make small adjustments. It feels kind of like trying to move around in Fallout 3, and to a lesser extent Red Dead Redemption though I think that is due more to the way your character basically steers kinda like a car with a very tight turn radius. ;3 Then again there are other times I'm really impressed with movement compared to CoD games. I adore being able to actually sprint for more than 5 seconds and the fact that I can mantle things rather quickly with a kinda cool soldierly vault animation rather than the leisurely dum dee dum way it works in CoD. In CoD I can't tell you how many times I have checked out a room through a window to make sure it was clear then gotten killed anyway on trying to go through it just because somebody happened to walk in within the rather large window of opportunity while I was ambling through it with my gun slung on my back. It also seems silly that in CoD I almost ALWAYS choose to go around even minor obstacles rather than over them, just because I know how impotently vulnerable it makes you. Hopefully movement/lag will get sorted by release. The game is a REALLY NICE change of pace. I've been looking forward to MW3, but now I'm thinking a break from CoD may be even better.
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Oct 4, 2011 13:27:00 GMT -5
Post by volgon on Oct 4, 2011 13:27:00 GMT -5
Don't expect the movement to be any different at launch. BF3 plays the same way BC2 did with heavy, sluggish feeling movements and controls.
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