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Post by didjeridu on Oct 1, 2011 23:54:50 GMT -5
I'd just like to make a fun thread for discussing weapons, and perhaps for people to get to know weapons they aren't going to unlock anytime soon, if ever. For example, anyone who can share their experience with the M60 would be my hero. Anyway, my top 3 would have to be 870, Pecheneg, and SKS. The 870 doesn't need any explanation, although I will say that ACOG + Slugs is pretty hilarious. Maybe I'm just not used to it yet, but I feel that Slugs in BF3 aren't nearly as good as they were in BC2. Headshots are still OHKs, and the "moving player bug" will get you OHKs as well. Otherwise, it just doesn't stack up to Buckshot or Flechette in a straight up fight. It still feels like a slightly inferior bolt-sniper, but if you want an okay medium range option on a non-Recon, it can work I guess. I've enjoyed all the LMGs so far. The RPK and the M27 are decent, and reloads are pretty nice, but you still have to scrap them for a real LMG when you unlock the SAW. I thought the SAW was pretty keen, but then I unlocked the Pecheneg. Man oh man, does it have some power. It also kicks like a mule, and combined with the firing sound, it's so satisfying to shoot. I'm still working on attachments for it, but I can only imagine the havoc it would wreak with a Foregrip. But with Extended Mags and proper bursting, you can fire this guy down a hallway for quite a while. And with the improved suppression spec, I'm sure my enemies are pissed. Again, I thought the SVD and MK11 were pretty good. They are still, but I liked to use their irons up close. They do a good job, but there are always those times you wish you could fire more rounds more quickly. Then the SKS comes along. From what I can tell, it only needs 1 more bullet to kill, but it fires pretty quickly with minimal recoil. It's easily my weapon of choice for close range engagements just outside normal shotgun range. It's pretty good at hip spam too with the laser sight. The only thing I don't like about it is that I can't put it on a class other than Recon.
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Post by volgon on Oct 2, 2011 2:14:07 GMT -5
I love the 870. That + Flechettes are laughably ridiculous. I'm not sure if Battlefield has pellet disappearance like in COD (it doesn't seem like it) and the ranges I've gotten kills at are just stupid. I love it.
Other than that, pretty much all the ARs feel generally the same which is kind of a shame. I don't like the AK-74M very much, with its obtrusive irons and high recoil. The M16/M416 are both nice. I don't like the AEK or F2000 all that much.
I really like that you can get iron sights for the sniper rifles. The MK11 with no sight is a fantastic weapon if you want to play Recon aggressively (it's either that or the Shotgun for my Recon setups. Getting that radio beacon set up is crucial).
Now that I've unlocked the F2000, I think I'm going to work on either Recon or Engineer. It takes so many points to unlock some of the higher up stuff (I'm like 50,000 away from the underslung shotgun for Assault and I don't even want it) and at this point I'm ready to diversify my playstyle a little bit.
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Post by rubionubio on Oct 2, 2011 2:18:00 GMT -5
Neat thread.
I haven't used the shotguns all that much and have instead focused solely on the ARs and the LMGs, so I have a lot of experience and unlocks for those. I tried the recon kit and do use it at least once per stage (to drop a remote spawn point) before going back to my other kits, and definitely enjoy iron-sight sniping. Definitely reminds me of some WWII FPS action lol.
I would preface any discussion about the weapons with the very important point that, even though this is a beta and weapons surely won't make it to release in this state, they are EVEN LESS representative than normal because of that damage-while-moving bug. There's just no way to know for sure that the damage you're doing to drop someone is because of the gun on it's own or damage because the guy is moving, or WAS moving and the netcode is just catching up, etc. So everything about the DAMAGE guns deal has to be taken with a grain of salt... Ballistics properties and whatnot however I would think are pretty accurate, so without further adieu:
The M416 is WAAAAAY too good, but to be honest all of the ARs feel like god-weapons. They do definitely require very short burst fire though, as the kick on all of them is pretty brutal, but once you get the hang of it you can just mow people down. Any of the ARs with a grip and a holo (I prefer this to the red-dot/kobra) are easy-mode in my opinion. I want the weirder assault rifles to be awesome, but it's just hard to justify using them when by the time you unlock them you already have all the sweet accessories for the earlier rifles, especially when they aren't even an upgrade to begin with.
The First two ARs: I don't know what it is, but I absolutely love the irons on the AK. Very first gun I used, and fell in love immediately. Pretty straightforward, burst fire and your target dies. Some people say they prefer the M16, and I can definitely see how they would, but I guess I'm just a communist at heart. Both sound good, with special marks going to the M16 in my book. Try single shot and burst mode out for yourself. Some people say they love it, but I can't get it to work, so maybe they're just trolling me hard.
The AEK... I dunno. I just didn't get a boner when I tried to use it, although it does have sweet irons. Same firerate as the other ARs before it. Sounds... OK? More like a... I dunno, like a faster AEK sound from BC2?
F2k: Boner. Shoots a bajillion rounds per minute, or at least feels like it when you're so used to the M416. It shreds inside the metro when you can patrol the hallways and still do moderately well on the long sightlines, but I can't use it for shit for long shots like I can the M416. Sounds badass. I REALLY like this gun, and hope it's as good as it looks in game. Standard NATO irons.
That's all I've unlocked for the ARs so far. I saw some dude running around today with the KH2002, and almost fell over. No idea how much he would have to have been playing, but since it takes almost DOUBLE what I currently have in points to get it he's either only been playing assault for as long as I have been playing period, or is hacking.
The LMGs:
Unlock 249 as quick as possible, because the first two just aren't even close in terms of actual LMG qualities. Huge mag, lethal as hell, and you unlock the 3.4x sight super early so you can start to provide ACTUAL USEFUL SUPPRESSION FIRE ON TARGET. It feels pretty damn good to crouch downline from a choke point, set up the bipod, and go to work. When the new stage opens up on rush just find a good choke and run to it and wait for them to come to you. It's epic. You'll be racking up multi-kills like you wouldn't believe, and getting a ton of Suppression Bonus (which are worth half a freaking kill, totally awesome) really supports suppression tactics. Definitely a fan of this style of play.
PKP: Hard as heck to use, but once you treat it like the PKM in BC2 you'll be golden. It's just hard to get used to coming from the M249 which doesn't really kick all that much compared to. Fires slower than a damn bolt-action I'm pretty sure. I wasn't a HUGE fan because next you unlock:
THEMOTHERFLIPPINGM240BRAVOBITCHES: This gun. This is it. When I die I want this gun to come with me to heaven. Absolute best gun I've ever fired in any FPS ever. I have a chub just thinking about it. Fires a big round, only a tiny bit slower than the 249 (which makes it a huge amount faster than the PKP), with a big magazine that seems to last forever. Sounds boss. God, I want to have babies with this gun.
I'm a huge Pig fan, and I'm definitely looking forward to the modern E4 variant, but I'm a little scared because it supposedly fires EXTREMELY slow. Here's hoping that's because it's incredibly damaging, but I'm due to unlock it within the next couple days so I will update this accordingly.
Honorable mention goes to the demo charge/C4. This right now is the most powerful thing in your arsenal lol. I swear half the players out there are new to BF, because when you blow up the wall they're tactical loitering behind and arm the MCOM people call you a hacker. Serious, just try it. Plus, using it indoors is just really neato, something you don't really get to do in BC2 like you do in Metro.
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Post by SheWolf on Oct 2, 2011 3:38:28 GMT -5
the SKS? really? you must be doing something right that i'm doing wrong..on medium ranges, svd without optics almost always performs better for me... hmm maybe i need to unlock the grip so i can spam tons of bullets in the target with almost no recoil. i'll give it a try^^ as for shotguns with flechetts: yes, they are pretty redicolous^^ i just can't devide yet if i like the 870 or the 1014 more
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Den
He's That Guy
Posts: 4,294,967,295
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Post by Den on Oct 2, 2011 4:04:29 GMT -5
I haven't touched Medic nor Engineer nor Recon classes at all.
I have steadily made my way through the Support list, a little bit away from the M240, however I've hardly touched his weapons either aside from the SAW at some points on Defense... until I realized that I had far superior suppression, focus fire and overall lethality at any range with PDWs and pistols, those not suffering from long reload times, poor accuracy and situational use.
I've the most time with the SAW after a poor initial first impression of the RPK/M27, but I think they would be the more desirable weapon for entrenched defense. A quarter capacity and a quarter reload is a superior trade to four times the capacity and four times the reload time. That 200 round mag will eventually run out and the enemy will slip by.
870MCS + Irons + Laser Sight + Slugs PP2000 + Reflex + Laser Sight + Extended Mags G17c
These have been pretty much all I've used in the nine hours I've (managed to have) played (and not been disconnected repeatedly, losing my progress yet still adding to my time) so far.
Against Anybody, a single 870 Slug to the chest puts them down at a considerable range. Against Recon snipers, my disregard for ammo conservation (as I am the dedicated ammo guy and deliberate distraction) often has me gaining the upper hand in suppression if I don't outright finish him off with a headshot or two general shots.
The PP2000 and its tight maximum cone of fire (especially with the laser sight) is the master of suppression, just sending a hail of "paintballs" in the enemy's direction will have them running for cover or falling dead. Switch to single fire mode and steadily put holes in dudes from long range. In CQC, I'm almost always the victor even when I don't get the first shot in. Exception being when that encounter is against a Medic with ANY of his class weapons. I don't even bother sighting the thing anymore (unless I get suppressed) because it is more than accurate enough.
The G17c is virtually the PP2000 lite before I got to the actual PP2000. Narrow cone of fire even when firing as quickly as possible from the hip that let me peck away at distant snipers and anybody on the move. Unless those revolvers and/or G18 are radical, the G17c is probably the only thing I'll use.
Observations so far: The Support's LMGs don't measure up to other type-weapons since the other weapons remain exceptionally accurate when on the move. They're a very limited situational weapon, requiring a good place to set up a bipod. The Medic - as always by the Unwritten Rule of DICE - is the class with the best guns. Fast, powerful and accurate, without a doubt the M16A3 with an ACOG is the weapon that has killed me the most. The Recon is a "sniper's" wet dream as now his semi-automatic rifles are as lethal as older series' bolt actions. The Engineer is a pretty cool guy and he's got a super duper robot. His SMGs and carbines are swell.
C4 is my friend. But come on, I can't even chuck it one meter.
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Post by danielzy on Oct 2, 2011 4:38:28 GMT -5
I just started playing with the F2000 and its fucking awesome. I love the glitch that when people run they usually take like x2-3 damage so I take them down with 1-2 bullets. Anyway a Tip for all of you guys: DONT RUN IN THE METRO. you will get killed in a face2face battle cause u couldnt react fast enough.
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Post by didjeridu on Oct 2, 2011 11:13:10 GMT -5
I'm having a hard time deciding on how I want my 870 set up. I like how it gets the Laser, but it makes me miss Extended. Most of the time Extended doesn't really help you out, but then again I'm ADS most of the time when I shoot, so the Laser isn't helping either. I'm thinking more along the lines of Slugs for open areas (beginning of Metro), and Flechette for interiors (Subway). However, I really wish I could see the firing patterns for Buckshot vs Flechette. Would the Laser be better in turning the precision of Flechette into a more forgiving, less ranged Slugs? Or would the Laser be better off turning the wild spread of Buckshot into the ultimate close range killer? I'm not convinced on using it for Slugs though. I always ADS when it comes to Slugs. Likewise, I wish I could see the damage comparison between the 870 Slugs and the SV98/M40 unscoped, seeing how I only use shotguns on Recon. Then again, I hate how even unscoped bolt-snipers need to exit the sights to load the next round, so I'd probably lean towards shotguns for less tedium (I know I know, Straight Pull, but still).
I was also thinking how the G17 is easily the best CQC pistol. The integrated Laser means you rarely have to aim, if ever. The G18 is considered a pistol, right? If so, I'm curious as to how it compares. If the G18 gets a Laser though, I'm sure it would be king. I've also only touched Engie enough to unlock the Stinger, and even then I was using the PP2000 and UMP. I'm curious about Carbine unlocks as well. Even in BC2, I was never a huge Engie fan. I'm more of a casual driver/pilot, and I'd rather be moving with the infantry with ammo or health support rather than be glued to a vehicle all game. Rockets are pretty good against infantry, but I'd just feel like I was wasting the class's talents if that's all I was doing *coughGustavcough*.
And as far as the SKS goes, it just resonates with the spammer in me. I was always the guy in CoD4 who rapid fired the G3/M14 in CQC. There's just something oddly satisfying about bending a semi-auto to your will, and using its power for something it wasn't meant to do. Although now that I think about it, next time I'm in game I need to test the fire cap. It's been a while since I've played a game that lets me fire as fast as I want, so I haven't been spamming much lately.
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Post by raxcoswell on Oct 2, 2011 11:34:14 GMT -5
it's not like engi is useless against people just because they have the vehicle stuff. M4 is the gun I have the most kills with atm. Just handles nicely.
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Post by saddaminsane on Oct 2, 2011 11:41:06 GMT -5
@den revolver+moving people extra damage glitch is RADICAL. one shot all day g18 is fully automatic, but it eats through ammo FAST, and the recoil is akward sometimes. Fun to use as a pseudo SMG when using a sniper though.
@didj Try using the flashlight. It gives away your position, but at close range it's extremely blinding (the range you should be using your shotgun anyways) Other wise stick with ext. mags and flechette, those 2 combined provide a consistent gameplay.
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Post by rubionubio on Oct 2, 2011 11:41:19 GMT -5
Plus, the rockets sound *so frickin' amazing*
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Post by SheWolf on Oct 2, 2011 12:58:24 GMT -5
just unlocked the PDW-R and holy crap, is that thing awesome. i loved the PP2000 already, now imagine that thing with a slightly larger magazine (default), a less stupidly high rof and more damage. really really fun. it's not all bunnies and sunshine though, the ironsights suck and the reloading animation is bugged. a little annoying.
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Post by didjeridu on Oct 2, 2011 14:21:28 GMT -5
Plus, the rockets sound *so frickin' amazing* SHHHSKREEEEEEWHOOOOOSH
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Post by saddaminsane on Oct 2, 2011 18:39:24 GMT -5
i just unlocked the m98b. It looks like a variation of the barret .50 cal but in .338- It also only has 5(6) rounds, but i cant tell if it's any "stronger" than the other bolt actions. Does Den have any states yet
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Post by SheWolf on Oct 2, 2011 18:57:10 GMT -5
i think the bolt actions all perform fairly similar. head shot kills people, body shot nicks them, second bodyshot will kill them (that is disregarding the double damage while running bug. as things are now you can ususally get one hit kills at bodyshots against running targets)
i might be wrong, but i had the feeling the rounds of the m98B drop less. probably just me seeing things though..
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Post by rubionubio on Oct 2, 2011 20:40:10 GMT -5
Plus, the rockets sound *so frickin' amazing* SHHHSKREEEEEEWHOOOOOSH Man, it must be nice to be DICE and know that, no matter what happens with release bugs or whatever, they are going to win EVERY SINGLE sound design award this year, period. If you haven't played with headphones I would highly recommend it. Being in the different areas of the metro and hearing the sound reverberate and explosions rattle things around you and your breathing/stomping/vaulting omfgomfgitsoundssoamazingarrrrrrrrrmindasplode
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Post by kirbyderby on Oct 4, 2011 7:28:21 GMT -5
Does anybody know how useful the slug shotties are at long range? I unlocked the 6x scope for the 870 today, but I couldn't use it very well. I probably tried to hit a dude eight times with different aim points and couldn't hit him.
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Den
He's That Guy
Posts: 4,294,967,295
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Post by Den on Oct 4, 2011 10:46:50 GMT -5
Does anybody know how useful the slug shotties are at long range? I unlocked the 6x scope for the 870 today, but I couldn't use it very well. I probably tried to hit a dude eight times with different aim points and couldn't hit him. Slug shotguns are just as good pseudo-snipers as they were in BC2, except this time they've got a bunch of scopes. ...Although, I find it far better to handle just using the irons or a Reflex instead of any of the actual zoom scopes. The wavering scopes are just an unnecessary hindrance.
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Post by SheWolf on Oct 5, 2011 7:43:05 GMT -5
I just now unlocked the P90, and in best egoshooter tradition this thing is SICK. stopping power rivaling most assault rifles, accuracy and excellent handling of the pp2000. plus a 50 round magazine wich, to my surprise, reloads rather quick.
if there is a downside, i have not discovered it yet. i only used it inside of the metro tunnels though. went 29 to 2 with it. maybe it sucks at medium distance, i'm gonna find out. can't wait to unlock flashlight and stuff for it to annoy people to death with it^^
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Post by Dertie Bertie on Oct 5, 2011 9:07:18 GMT -5
Does anybody know how useful the slug shotties are at long range? I unlocked the 6x scope for the 870 today, but I couldn't use it very well. I probably tried to hit a dude eight times with different aim points and couldn't hit him. Have a look at the video I posted on the 'Disecting BF3: Weapon Stats, Mechanics' thread (page 2). I think you can get one shot kills from any distance as long as it is to the head, though the accuracy isn't quite 100%. The 6x scope on the 870CMS is quite funny, when you run more than half of your screen is covered!
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Post by kirbyderby on Oct 5, 2011 14:03:58 GMT -5
I figured the slugs could 1SK, however I'm having a hard time figuring how much they drop at long range.
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Post by saddaminsane on Oct 5, 2011 16:34:16 GMT -5
does anyone know if the slugs/frags on the semi auto shotguns do less damage than when used on the 870?
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Post by fazzmania on Oct 5, 2011 19:01:26 GMT -5
So far I've been loving the PP2000 and the UMP. People call the UMP overpowered but the PP is arguably just as good, particularly with extended mags. Silencer on the UMP is amazing for rushing though.
The other advantage to maining Personal Defense Weapons is that you get a medal every 4 kills instead of 7, which is nice for leveling.
Naturally playing Recon because a radio beacon in the right place is gamebreaking, especially if you're squadded with friends.
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sleep
True Bro
Posts: 10,189
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Post by sleep on Oct 6, 2011 9:46:06 GMT -5
scar-h: small mag size, but powerful. it's always a pleasant surprise when enemies are dead before my third or fourth round leaves the barrel. seems considerably better than the other carbines when single firing at long range, too. i wish it was a general unlock rather than engi only though!
m27 iar: yeah yeah ok it's not really a machine gun. it's basically a m416 with a big-ass magazine, maybe better muzzle velocity? sounds good to me! i like to use it with SUPR while sitting on an ammo box, it's good at keeping them heads down and even better at lighting up fools that are stupid enough to expose themselves from cover. with selective fire and heavy barrel, i can put suppressive fire accurately on target even at long distances (think JDAM crater to train car across the large cavern), whereas with the 249 and PKP i often get accidental 2-3 round bursts which bounce me off target just enough for an enemy to pop out and tag me.
i like the m416 a lot too but it feels statistically identical to the m16a4. it looks a little cooler but that's the only difference i can discern.
i just unlocked the SKS which seems very very badass with that 20 round mag but for some reason i'm having a little trouble actually hitting guys with it so far (compared to say, the sv98).
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Post by didjeridu on Oct 6, 2011 15:13:14 GMT -5
i just unlocked the SKS which seems very very badass with that 20 round mag but for some reason i'm having a little trouble actually hitting guys with it so far (compared to say, the sv98). Range is the SKS's weak point. If you're trying to use it as a sniper rifle, then you'd be a lot better off with the MK11/SVD or a bolt. It can still take people down easily with headshots at any range (really easy on prone players, which seem to be half the people I engage at long range), but it excels at medium range while being passable everywhere else. Basically, it works best as an aggressive Recon; aggressive meaning on the front lines, but not rushing in CQC.
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sleep
True Bro
Posts: 10,189
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Post by sleep on Oct 10, 2011 10:18:02 GMT -5
i just unlocked the SKS which seems very very badass with that 20 round mag but for some reason i'm having a little trouble actually hitting guys with it so far (compared to say, the sv98). Range is the SKS's weak point. If you're trying to use it as a sniper rifle, then you'd be a lot better off with the MK11/SVD or a bolt. It can still take people down easily with headshots at any range (really easy on prone players, which seem to be half the people I engage at long range), but it excels at medium range while being passable everywhere else. Basically, it works best as an aggressive Recon; aggressive meaning on the front lines, but not rushing in CQC. word. moving down from the 7x to an ACOG 4x and not trying to engage at "ballistic" ranges has helped a lot. played caspian a bunch and almost exclusively went with the engineer class. i tried a bunch of times to use various other classes, but i can't stand feeling totally useless when a tank rolls in. now more than ever the scar-h (RDS, grip, heavy barrel) is my #1 gun of choice. while there may be better options in close quarters, none of the other engineer or general guns i've unlocked (just got the A 91) can even remotely compare at any range over 40-50 feet. arcing 5 shots out and knocking down a running target at range, or taking out snipers on the hilltop from the far edge of the forest with a gun labeled "QCB" is pretty satisfying xD
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Post by didjeridu on Oct 10, 2011 15:23:18 GMT -5
Now that the Beta is all over, I think I'll revise my favorite weapons.
1. AEK It was my favorite in BC2, and it's just as good in BF3. It has all the advantages of an SMG, but with the range of an AR. It also kills people just as fast as the F2000, but without using as much ammo. Unless you're fighting at long range, the AEK is dominant. Even at range, it's usable, and you even get the choice of semi-auto or burst. The only other ARs I see as contenders are the AN-94 and G3. If the AN-94 gets an option for full auto, I can imagine it being a slightly more powerful AEK at the expense of RoF, with the G3 being one step further in that direction. The AEK might be the king of versatility, but it's hard to argue in the face of power. Unfortunately, I never got to try either, so I can only speculate.
2. 870 I still stand by the 870, mostly since the other shotguns are trash. Rifle scope and slugs let you have a "sniper rifle" on any class, while flechette is pretty devastating in CQC. Toss in the .44 Magnum, and you have the ultimate powerhouse kit.
3. P90 I had just unlocked this the last day of the Beta, but I used the crap out of it. Once you get the laser sight, you never need to aim again. I've twice cleared rooms of at least 6 enemies without even spending my entire magazine. Even if it might be slightly weaker than the other SMGs/PDWs, that magazine size does wonders. Plus, I love slapping on that silencer and going to town behind enemy lines. The only thing I don't like about it is that it doesn't get much ammo. I'm sure it's just as much as the other weapons, but its default magazine size makes it seem like less. However, it makes a perfect CQC weapon for a Support.
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Post by undoubledzim on Oct 12, 2011 0:45:51 GMT -5
whoever was wondering about the m60 it has power about like the m240 but recoil is alot more predictable its also quite loud
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Post by rudybojangles on Oct 12, 2011 10:20:31 GMT -5
I neglected to explore the heavy barrel option in the beta, and I regret it. I'll look forward to determining the change in recoil/sighted cone/velocity, seems like heavy barrel would be well suited for larger maps if it picks up bullet velocity.
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Post by didjeridu on Oct 16, 2011 15:11:46 GMT -5
I neglected to explore the heavy barrel option in the beta, and I regret it. I'll look forward to determining the change in recoil/sighted cone/velocity, seems like heavy barrel would be well suited for larger maps if it picks up bullet velocity. That was a rumor I heard as well, but I'm not sure if it's true or not. As far as I know, it just increases range before the damage drops off. I could be wrong though, since I can't even recall what the in-game description said exactly. For the most part though, the heavy barrel is ideal for when firing in semi-auto. Otherwise, it can make full-auto fire more of a hassle, and is just strong enough to mess up a 3-round burst. I think it might work good on the 2-round burst of the AN-94, although I've never tried it. It might be nice on some weapons, but overall I prefer the suppressor. It seems to me like the range dropoff is negligible. Then again, I was mostly playing Metro, so it's not like the ranges were that great to begin with. Plus, the suppressed firing sounds in BF3 are great; not too strong and not too wimpy.
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Post by SheWolf on Oct 16, 2011 15:20:43 GMT -5
i think i read on this very board that a dice employé stated that the ingame description is inaccurate and that the heavy barrel makes auto fire inaccurate, but single fire more precise.
though we all know that even what dice employes say can't be taken as the word of god. yes, i'm looking at you deniz or whatever your name was <.<
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