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Post by fazzmania on Nov 28, 2011 21:40:00 GMT -5
how do you know it was to the chest? Well it wasn't a head-shot, so theoretically it could have hit anywhere else. Just reinforces my point really, there's some sort of damage bug that pops up occasionally. It's like tanks being 1 shotted by RPGs.
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Post by SheWolf on Nov 28, 2011 23:29:34 GMT -5
well, how do you know it wasn't a headshot? there is no way to be displayed for you no?
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tiesieman
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Post by tiesieman on Nov 29, 2011 4:31:36 GMT -5
the damage model in the game is kind of the reason I'm thinking to drop the game alltogether.
that, and the terrible shotguns. I platinummed all shotguns in BC2 (saiga I think twice)(without slugs, mind you); I hardly touched a shotgun in this game. They're that bad :<
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Post by fazzmania on Nov 29, 2011 4:51:56 GMT -5
well, how do you know it wasn't a headshot? there is no way to be displayed for you no? Times where I've been hit from a long distance while sprinting and I've asked if it was a headshot, and the sniper has said it wasn't. Has probably happened about 3-4 times.
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Post by symthic on Nov 29, 2011 14:26:22 GMT -5
The charts at google docs have maximum tested range of 40m when damage drop stops at 50 meters. Suppressor seems to reduce the fall-off end range which makes those charts show higer damage for non-suppressed weapons, only because they didn't test the range of 50 meters where it would be same.
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Post by jackson on Nov 29, 2011 15:05:36 GMT -5
The charts at google docs have maximum tested range of 40m when damage drop stops at 50 meters. Suppressor seems to reduce the fall-off end range which makes those charts show higer damage for non-suppressed weapons, only because they didn't test the range of 50 meters where it would be same. If that is true then silencers are pretty darn good. For the standard assault rifles there is only one area where the two would differ significantly, 29-34m. Only in that range does a silenced weapon require an extra shot to kill. And with the decreased minimum ads spread angle of silencers it might be easier to get bullets on target anyways, negating the decreased damage.
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Post by fazzmania on Nov 29, 2011 19:48:57 GMT -5
Simply not appearing on the minimap makes silencers amazing, I've been using a silenced f2000 in TDM lately and have been getting some great scores, 29-4, 47-7 etc. I think people underestimate how strong paying close attention to the minimap is.
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Post by greenandbad on Nov 30, 2011 10:48:36 GMT -5
Symthic, thx for your chart , you and Dan do a great job ,but i have a couple questions. If your chart right , its no difference between all shotguns in unzoomed fire(from hip) with single shot, but i clearly see that 870MCS kill with one shot from bigger distances and its more devastating even in close range. Maybe you dont see some modifiers ,but seems like 870 have bigger power in distances like write in description and it have way lesser spread ,you easily can see this when shoot in the wall. And seems like theres no difference to shoot with shotguns with zoom and unzoom mode (again its can easily prove shootin in the wall) , but if you see chart there huge difference especially in single shoot. All that i say above its about flechette/buckshot - i dont use slugs&frags. Someone tell me please , maybe i understand something wrong .... Shotguns (especialy pump-action) my favorite weapons in all shooters ,so its important for me. battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/soldier/GreenAndBad/stats/189445441/ps. sorry for my bad english ,I learn it only half a year. Someone tells DICE to change fire rate of AEK-971 to 900 in battlelogs description?
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Post by bmwtx on Nov 30, 2011 11:04:50 GMT -5
Someone tells DICE to change fire rate of AEK-971 to 900 in battlelogs description? Demize (Alan Kertz) himself confirmed that it was 900 rpm quite some time ago, but as far as updating battlelog is concerned.....I'm not holding my breath.
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Post by symthic on Nov 30, 2011 13:56:13 GMT -5
...870 have bigger power in distances like write in description and it have way lesser spread ,you easily can see this when shoot in the wall
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Post by rudybojangles on Nov 30, 2011 16:03:18 GMT -5
Seems like some of the numbers (check pistol damage) don't line up with yours and Den's chart. Can you confirm/deny? EDIT: Seems good now.
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Post by rudybojangles on Dec 2, 2011 9:21:48 GMT -5
Still see some differences in your chart compared to Den's
1.) M93R has 25 damage up close vs. Den's 20 2.) G18 has 20 bullets standards vs. Den's 19 3.) AS VAL has 30 rd. mag vs. Den's 20
That's all I see for now.
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Lexapro
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Post by Lexapro on Dec 2, 2011 10:11:33 GMT -5
G18 is 19+1 and AS VAL is 20+1 IIRC.
No idea on the M93R though.
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sleep
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Post by sleep on Dec 2, 2011 10:30:06 GMT -5
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Post by doctorbrain on Dec 2, 2011 10:39:13 GMT -5
I think the wording in the patch notes was misleading: "Decreased the maximum damage and maximum range of the G3 and SCAR-H 7.62mm weapons." They specifically mentioned the SCAR and G3A3, but they also mentioned the 7.62mm round. Since BF3's weapon performance and damage values seem to be based primarily on caliber, I think we can safely assume that a nerf to one 7.62mm weapon would nerf all weapons using the same ammunition type. edit: To clarify, the 7.62mm weapons would include the SCAR-H, the G3A3, the M240B and the M60E4. The PKP also fires a 7.62mm round, but it's the Russian 7.62x54mm vs the other weapon's 7.62x51mm NATO round - not sure if DICE treats those differently.
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Lexapro
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Post by Lexapro on Dec 2, 2011 10:47:56 GMT -5
Since BF3's weapon performance and damage values seem to be based primarily on caliber, I think we can safely assume that a nerf to one 7.62mm weapon would nerf all weapons using the same ammunition type. Nah, each of the 7.62 weapons uses a different "ammunition type" in the game files. Conder that the Mk 11 Mod 0 also uses the 7.62 Nato round, but actually got a range buff. See denkirson.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general2&action=display&thread=3301 for more details.
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Post by doctorbrain on Dec 2, 2011 10:54:43 GMT -5
Very good point - I hadn't noticed that thread. Thanks for the link. We can see here that there are only 4 values for 762x51mm NATO: 762x51mmNATO, 762x51mmNATO_Carbine, 762x51mmNATO_Bolt, and 762x51mmNATO_Semi. From the damage values for each, it's obvious that _Bolt and _Semi are the bolt-action and semi-auto snipers, respectively. _Carbine is obviously for the SCAR-H - changes to this would not affect other weapons (as there are no other 762x51mm carbines). However, the remaining value - 762x51mmNATO - seems to be shared between the G3A3, the M240B and the M60E4. This would mean that a nerf to the damage of the G3A3 would also affect the damage for the M240B and M60E4.
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sleep
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Post by sleep on Dec 2, 2011 11:08:22 GMT -5
yeah, that's my conclusion too about the ammo types. maybe they nerfed the M240B and M60E4 by mistake when nerfing the G3A3, it seems there's no reason at all to use either of them anymore, not only because of the damage nerf but also the range. speaking of which, den's chart is showing different max ranges for the M240B and M60E4 (60m and 50m, respectively), whereas symthic's chart is showing 50m for both while the G3A3 still has 60m. this is probably an oversight on both charts i guess.
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battleaxerx
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Post by battleaxerx on Dec 4, 2011 20:17:21 GMT -5
Sticky please?
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Post by jabberwockxeno on Dec 5, 2011 17:57:08 GMT -5
So, maybe i'm misunderstanding this, but this means that in assualt, the m416 and ak74 are statistically inferior to all other Assualt weapons?
Or is the recoil stat on a per bullet basis, which would mean that the practical recoil felt would be more than what is displayed for higher ROF weapons?
This would also explain why the sg553/ak74u seems worse than the g36c in every way, and that worse than the m4/t91.
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Post by fazzmania on Dec 6, 2011 1:28:52 GMT -5
At the end of the day, you can only go off real experience. The 416 is great.
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Post by alexwgreen on Dec 6, 2011 9:53:29 GMT -5
At the end of the day, you can only go off real experience. The 416 is great. Agreed, I'd unlocked the M416 before the stats came out. After looking at the stats, I concluded that the AEK would be a significant improvement for me. However, after using it for a few games, I switched straight back to the M416. I guess it just suits my play style better. I generally use terrain and flanking manoeuvres to limit engagements to around 50m. At this range, I'm pretty confident that I can land two consecutive headshots in semi auto mode. With this style of play, the M416 is superior to all other weapons I've unlocked, bar perhaps the SCAR, even after the patch. Ammo conservation is a pleasant side effect of this style of play.
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Post by rudybojangles on Dec 6, 2011 10:18:45 GMT -5
At the end of the day, you can only go off real experience. The 416 is great. Agreed, I'd unlocked the M416 before the stats came out. After looking at the stats, I concluded that the AEK would be a significant improvement for me. However, after using it for a few games, I switched straight back to the M416. I guess it just suits my play style better. I generally use terrain and flanking manoeuvres to limit engagements to around 50m. At this range, I'm pretty confident that I can land two consecutive headshots in semi auto mode. With this style of play, the M416 is superior to all other weapons I've unlocked, bar perhaps the SCAR, even after the patch. Ammo conservation is a pleasant side effect of this style of play. So you land those headshots at 50m. Impressive as that is, it still leaves you at 68 damage total. Then the guy hides behind a rock and you are standing there with your member in your hand waiting for him to pop out. Meanwhile he chucks a nade your way, you run flailing, and his sniper buddy takes off your head. Or does that only happen to me?
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Post by symthic on Dec 6, 2011 12:14:57 GMT -5
Charts up to date with the latest patch I have the exact changes in numbers here
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sleep
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Post by sleep on Dec 6, 2011 12:20:38 GMT -5
great, thanks!
- any idea what TriggerPullWeight is? - i don't remember what the old bipod values were, but they're shown in red now, can you tell us what changed?
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Post by fatsix on Dec 6, 2011 14:22:25 GMT -5
great, thanks! - any idea what TriggerPullWeight is? - i don't remember what the old bipod values were, but they're shown in red now, can you tell us what changed? more accurate first shot?
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Post by alexwgreen on Dec 6, 2011 14:41:07 GMT -5
So you land those headshots at 50m. Impressive as that is, it still leaves you at 68 damage total. Then the guy hides behind a rock and you are standing there with your member in your hand waiting for him to pop out. Meanwhile he chucks a nade your way, you run flailing, and his sniper buddy takes off your head. Or does that only happen to me? Should have also stated I generally play hc. But yeah, that's the way I play. I tend to aim for the head any way, so beyond a certain range, the one thing you can guarantee is that if the first shot is a headshot, the second will miss over the top. Single shot means that recoil will settle allowing me to nail the second without wasting bullets or having to wait for the recoil of two or three shots (2 of which missed anyway) to settle. What I also find is that the rhythm I'm comfortable tapping the trigger at without affecting aim too much is just about right for recoil to settle. What I will say though, is that I do often die in unexpected close range encounters.
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Post by rudybojangles on Dec 6, 2011 15:45:59 GMT -5
So you land those headshots at 50m. Impressive as that is, it still leaves you at 68 damage total. Then the guy hides behind a rock and you are standing there with your member in your hand waiting for him to pop out. Meanwhile he chucks a nade your way, you run flailing, and his sniper buddy takes off your head. Or does that only happen to me? Should have also stated I generally play hc. But yeah, that's the way I play. I tend to aim for the head any way, so beyond a certain range, the one thing you can guarantee is that if the first shot is a headshot, the second will miss over the top. Single shot means that recoil will settle allowing me to nail the second without wasting bullets or having to wait for the recoil of two or three shots (2 of which missed anyway) to settle. What I also find is that the rhythm I'm comfortable tapping the trigger at without affecting aim too much is just about right for recoil to settle. What I will say though, is that I do often die in unexpected close range encounters. My question is, if you are using a single shot anyway, or if you are popping off two shots, why not use the AN-94? Very low first shot multi means faster settling, no?
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Post by bel on Dec 6, 2011 18:54:20 GMT -5
That's interesting. Triggerpullweight must be really important, then. I'd been ignoring it.
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Post by fatsix on Dec 6, 2011 19:10:34 GMT -5
Its either first shot accuracy. Or first shot speed after you depress the fire key/button. I can attest to it being slow on the pump shotty.
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