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Post by ZeroKelvin^ on Nov 28, 2011 10:52:45 GMT -5
Back in the BF2142 times it seemed we got more variety with less guns, now all guns are more or less the same.
The increase from BC2 to BF3 does not make sense to me.
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Post by didjeridu on Nov 28, 2011 16:56:24 GMT -5
I think the amount we have now is fine, but the balance needs some serious tweaking. With all the guns being so similar in terms of damage, it's easy for the high RoF weapons to reign supreme. I love the idea of adding bullet velocity to the mix, but it seems like the worst weapons get the short end of the stick even then. I think it'd be a nice compromise if slower weapons like the AK-74M, AK-74u, and RPK had the advantage in terms of velocity. Diversity is good, but with the stats being determined by somewhat realistic values, there's no way the guns will ever be balanced.
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Post by fazzmania on Nov 28, 2011 20:03:32 GMT -5
I wish they'd used BC2's model, none of this damage based on calibre rubbish.
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brandon7s
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Post by brandon7s on Nov 29, 2011 2:34:37 GMT -5
I wish they would use some of the recoil-modeling from good old Counter-Strike. Every gun should have a recoil pattern tendency.
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tiesieman
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Post by tiesieman on Nov 29, 2011 4:27:30 GMT -5
the damage on the base of calibre doesn't even make sense.
MP7: fires an armour piercing round. does 16,7 damage
G18: fires a louzy 9mm round. 30 damage
Both even fire at the same RPM and have the same capaticity (unless you smack extended mags on the MP7). EXCEPT THE FREAKING MP7 IS A PRIMARY WEAPON
Now the MP7 could be this awesome accurate laser weapon, usefull at all ranges, thus redeeming it's very low damage up close. That is not the case. it's just wtfisthisbalancing.
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Post by fazzmania on Nov 29, 2011 4:55:08 GMT -5
The G18 does 20 damage, but yeah most of the semi auto pistols do 30.
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tiesieman
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Post by tiesieman on Nov 29, 2011 10:11:26 GMT -5
The G18 does 20 damage, but yeah most of the semi auto pistols do 30. 20? Well, that changes a lot, lol. Could've sworn I read 30 though. My bad Even still, the MP7 is a very bad weapon in general
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neverlast74
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Post by neverlast74 on Nov 29, 2011 10:45:29 GMT -5
to some extend it is great that they are all the somewhat the same because this frees up people to think about team play. (bad rational but my hope)
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Post by doctorbrain on Nov 29, 2011 11:14:00 GMT -5
the damage on the base of calibre doesn't even make sense. MP7: fires an armour piercing round. does 16,7 damage G18: fires a louzy 9mm round. 30 damage To be clear, the MP7 fires a very small caliber; it's just a 4.6x30mm. Yes, technically the 4.6mm is designed to penetrate body armor, but its small size means that it doesn't actually do a lot of tissue damage. In CQC, the "lousy" 9mm from a G18 would hurt more than the MP7's 4.6mm.
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Post by SheWolf on Nov 29, 2011 11:25:31 GMT -5
i remember the czech army rejecting the 4,6x30mm because of it's massive lack of stopping power in trials...so yeah.
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tiesieman
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Post by tiesieman on Nov 29, 2011 11:40:21 GMT -5
(okay, I very limited knowledge on body armours and all so I could be very very wrong)
Most people in the game seem to be wearing body armour of some sorts (aside from recons), so wouldn't that kind of justify the MP7 doing a bit more than very poor damage?
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Post by doctorbrain on Nov 29, 2011 12:02:27 GMT -5
(okay, I very limited knowledge on body armours and all so I could be very very wrong) Most people in the game seem to be wearing body armour of some sorts (aside from recons), so wouldn't that kind of justify the MP7 doing a bit more than very poor damage? The 4.6x30mm has good armor penetration, for a sidearm caliber, at close or moderate ranges. However, it does not actually do a lot of tissue damage, even after penetrating armor. In short, no, it should not be doing more damage then it currently does (although perhaps it could use a range buff, perhaps a longer distance before damage dropoff). IMO it should be available as a sidearm, not a primary weapon, since that's what it was intended to be, especially with the 20-round magazine.
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Post by ZeroKelvin^ on Nov 29, 2011 12:02:29 GMT -5
Back to my original point, if you had less guns there would not be an obsolete MP7.
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Post by doctorbrain on Nov 29, 2011 13:08:00 GMT -5
Back to my original point, if you had less guns there would not be an obsolete MP7. Sorry for going off-topic. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong in the number of weapons available; I just think DICE could have done a better job of properly balancing each of them. I was a fan of BC2's balancing, so I think something along those lines would be better. I appreciate BF3's attempt at realism with muzzle velocity, and damage values standardized by caliber, but for gameplay's sake, there needs to be some changes.
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Post by ZeroKelvin^ on Nov 29, 2011 13:59:43 GMT -5
but here is the point, the more weapons in the game the harder they are to balance and tpo give them a different feel
just think of all the modelling, sound creation and animation you have to do
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Post by doctorbrain on Nov 29, 2011 14:10:13 GMT -5
but here is the point, the more weapons in the game the harder they are to balance and tpo give them a different feel just think of all the modelling, sound creation and animation you have to do Well, all the guns are already in the game, so modelling/recording/animating them isn't really an issue anymore. From here on out, it's just about weapon balance, and giving each weapon a (relatively) unique feel. I think trying to balance the current weapon set would be better than taking guns out.
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Post by ZeroKelvin^ on Nov 29, 2011 14:21:25 GMT -5
Well, all the guns are already in the game, so modelling/recording/animating them isn't really an issue anymore. From here on out, it's just about weapon balance, and giving each weapon a (relatively) unique feel. I think trying to balance the current weapon set would be better than taking guns out. yes, the damage done cannot be reversed because it would be a decision to be made in the beginning of a game In BF2142 a lot of smart decisions where made, a small selection of guns being one of them.
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Post by SheWolf on Nov 29, 2011 14:59:27 GMT -5
personally i think there is nothing wrong with a large selection of weapons, to the contrary, i enjoy the variety. however, those weapons should be unique and balanced, as in there shouldn't be any that are completely pointless.
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tiesieman
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Post by tiesieman on Nov 29, 2011 15:10:50 GMT -5
personally i think there is nothing wrong with a large selection of weapons, to the contrary, i enjoy the variety. however, those weapons should be unique and balanced, as in there shouldn't be any that are completely pointless. meh, even statistical identical copies would be fine by me. Variety in cosmetics is still variety, I guess it becomes a problem when there are straight-up downgrades, like there were Black Ops. I think for this game, it's too soon to tell. We seem to know a lot of variables, but not all of them. For example; I seem to do much better with the AK-74m than with the M16A4. Wether that's just placebo or that the slower RoF actually means it's more accurate (even though spread numbers seem higher) I don't know. And hell, I even had fun using the MP7. I wouldn't really recommend it without EMs, but it's usable.
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Post by didjeridu on Nov 29, 2011 16:51:40 GMT -5
I still don't like the MP7. In a 1v1 situation at close range, it's great. Anywhere else, it's terrible. I get kills just as easily with the G18 or M93r, and they're freaking pistols. I'd much rather have any other PDW. Although I still hate PDWs as a whole. Other than Recons, no class benefits from using one at all. Same goes for shotguns. I use them because I like shotguns a lot, but they're far from being the dominant CQC force (except for frag USAS of course).
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Post by fazzmania on Nov 29, 2011 19:43:49 GMT -5
The PDW-R and the AS-VAL are actually fairly strong, good if you want to play support but don't like LMGs.
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Post by jackson on Nov 29, 2011 23:22:53 GMT -5
The PDW-R and the AS-VAL are actually fairly strong, good if you want to play support but don't like LMGs. I was about to write off the PDWs until I unlocked the PDW-R. Second match with it I went 55-18 using red dot, laser, and silencer. You just have to realize that you can only effectively take on one target at a time with the 20+1 capacity (but that's what the G18 is for).
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Post by fazzmania on Nov 30, 2011 2:53:31 GMT -5
Also I forgot, the UMP is quite strong again since the patch. Havn't tried the post patch PP2000 yet but that 40 clip was pretty nice in the beta.
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tiesieman
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Post by tiesieman on Nov 30, 2011 4:18:14 GMT -5
Also I forgot, the UMP is quite strong again since the patch. Havn't tried the post patch PP2000 yet but that 40 clip was pretty nice in the beta. 400+ kills with the UMP here, so I agree the UMP is cool again. Love getting close with the recon class, planting a beacon somewhere hidden but close to the objective and just wreck people up It has this very big cone of initial spread though, so don't expect to kill anything beyond the 40-50m mark. The PP-2000 seemed to do a bit better at range and of course has this big 40 round mag
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Post by SheWolf on Nov 30, 2011 6:18:26 GMT -5
they changed the UMP? when? there was nothing in the patch notes..
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Post by tiesieman on Nov 30, 2011 7:04:49 GMT -5
they changed the UMP? when? there was nothing in the patch notes.. it's under "changed range values of .45 caliber weapons" or something like that. It's a pretty solid weapon now, as long as you don' t expect to much miracles at range
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Post by SheWolf on Nov 30, 2011 7:23:54 GMT -5
ah yeah, there it is. more range for .45 and 9mm weapons. good to know, thanks. maybe an alternative to shotguns now in close quarters.
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Post by didjeridu on Nov 30, 2011 16:39:08 GMT -5
I don't see why people rave over the VAL. It's basically a weaker, more accurate AEK with a crap magazine. It's a little better than carbines at range, but is it really worth the ammo loss? And I really don't see why a Support would ever use it, since if they want a fast weapon they have an almighty powerhouse in the SAW. And if you really hate LMGs for some reason, the M27 and RPK are fantastic in their own right. It'd be great for an aggressive Recon though, provided they have a Support buddy or ammo perk.
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Post by tomat on Dec 1, 2011 8:36:30 GMT -5
I see they adjusted the IRNV in the latest ps3 patch in addition to the pc patch changes, does anyone know if they fixed the broken silencers while they were at it?
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Post by rudybojangles on Dec 1, 2011 14:50:16 GMT -5
I don't see why people rave over the VAL. It's basically a weaker, more accurate AEK with a crap magazine. It's basically a weaker, more accurate AEK It's basically a more accurate AEK That's why.
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