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Post by fazzmania on Jan 8, 2012 16:40:33 GMT -5
New players should avoid flying anyway, you'll just be useless and you won't learn the maps. Once you have a bit of an understanding what hostile vehicles can do to you it's a better time.
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GoHarvard
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Post by GoHarvard on Jan 9, 2012 2:18:32 GMT -5
Thanks for the insight guys.
Question: Does the foregrip reduce ADS accuracy? I've been full timing it on my M416, been wondering if I should use No Attachment or Underslung Rail because I'm rarely hip firing.
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Post by SheWolf on Jan 9, 2012 7:15:45 GMT -5
not yet it doesn't. but there are some rumors and speculations about coming patches about that kind of thing. right now all it does is half horizontal recoil by 50%.
or 25% as well as vertical for 25%, in case of the new B2K guns.
wait, isn't "no attachment" and "underslung rail" the same? (aside from supergluing the m320 to your rifle)
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tiesieman
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Post by tiesieman on Jan 9, 2012 7:22:46 GMT -5
^ Yeah, it is. Don't think there's a "no attachment" option for ARs (maybe for the F2000)
Foregrips is mostly the way to go right now, since they offer no downsides at all. The bipod has some things going for it for the LMGs, but maybe it's better to wait with the bipod since it's getting buffed to be a lot faster and more accurate.
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GoHarvard
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Post by GoHarvard on Jan 9, 2012 14:57:49 GMT -5
^ Got it. I just read that article about possible changes to the grip etc.
I played BFBC2 briefly and preferred the M416 on there as well. I was able to tap the right trigger (I'm on 360) repeatedly to keep the gun steady for long shots. I wasn't really shooting bursts because I was never holding the trigger down. It was more like a bunch of quick single shots being fired. That doesn't seem to work so well anymore because it seems there's significant kick from every shot forcing me to wait longer between shots for my Red Dot to re-center. I kinda like it because it does add more value to sniper rifles by not allowing AR users to get loooong shots as easily.
Is there a penalty (like in spread/accuracy) when using full auto mode to shoot in single shots and/or bursts?
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Post by rubionubio on Jan 10, 2012 4:05:20 GMT -5
Not a penalty per se, no. But the "second shot" recoil multiplier mechanic doesn't really lend itself to single shots in full-auto mode, if you're going to do that you want to be rocking the HBar and in semi-auto mode.
The mechanic in a nutshell is that there's a gun-specific multiplier that affects the recoil number of your second shot (which I think - correct me if I'm wrong - resets when the spread falls back to the guns "resting" spread number) such that shot number two has significantly more recoil than shots 1, 3 - x. It's more pronounced on some guns, and interestingly enough (since you mentioned the M416 specifically) the 416 has one of the lowest 2nd shot multipliers, which is why a lot of people - myself included - find burst firing at range very easy with this gun as the gun doesn't "hop" as much during each ~3 round burst.
I went back and played a little BC2 the other day, and recoil is SO different now. Playing BC2 makes me feel like I'm playing CoD with their laser rifle-esque recoil profiles. Dunno how the actual numbers compare but something about the two different games has changed recoil dramatically, such that BF3 actually requires a lot of trigger control when compared to BC2. Just thought I'd throw that out there as a possible explanation for the issues you're running into.
TLDR: Quick-Firing (such that you're constantly in that 1 or 2 round burst feel) is not good for BF3 because you're going to have that nasty "second shot" recoil modifier applied to your shots a lot more than someone who's either rocking an actual semi-auto or who is doing 3-4 round bursts. Does that make sense? Basically if you're going to shoot two bullets you should at least shoot 3 or 4 because the recoil added from 3 and 4 is probably less than what was added for shot 2 alone.
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Post by kirbyderby on Jan 10, 2012 13:23:49 GMT -5
Isn't the multiplier applied to the first shot on automatics/burst weapons, generally 2-3 times the normal recoil?
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Post by raxcoswell on Jan 10, 2012 13:37:20 GMT -5
Yeah I used to shoot a lot of the guns, especially the LMGs, with just a constant fast-tapping of the trigger in BC2, and yeah I don't do it at all anymore. I never really got the concept of the 2nd shot recoil, just seems to promote full-auto over burst, and I don't really know why the battlefield guys would want that. Didn't know the M416 had a low one though, and tbh I didn't know they had different ones at all, I just thought it was 'doubled,' whatever that means. This is interesting, I demand more deets.
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Post by fazzmania on Jan 10, 2012 17:57:29 GMT -5
Interesting quote from demize on his twitter
God I would love to get my hands on those usage statistics.
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Post by didjeridu on Jan 10, 2012 22:42:04 GMT -5
I still don't know why so many people like the M416. It's worse than the M16 in nearly every way. And when you put them up next to each other, the M416 looks like a toy compared to the M16. Although I suppose that without a silencer the M416 is really short, so you can hump windows, corners, or bushes closer than ever before.
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Post by fazzmania on Jan 11, 2012 1:45:39 GMT -5
I still don't know why so many people like the M416. It's worse than the M16 in nearly every way. And when you put them up next to each other, the M416 looks like a toy compared to the M16. Although I suppose that without a silencer the M416 is really short, so you can hump windows, corners, or bushes closer than ever before. Each to their own I suppose, personally my KPM is .18 higher with the 416 over the m16, and accuracy is 2% higher. Not that it means much but I think the differences between weapons is kinda overrated. Use what works well for you.
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GoHarvard
True Bro
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Post by GoHarvard on Jan 11, 2012 1:46:59 GMT -5
I still don't know why so many people like the M416. It's worse than the M16 in nearly every way. And when you put them up next to each other, the M416 looks like a toy compared to the M16. Although I suppose that without a silencer the M416 is really short, so you can hump windows, corners, or bushes closer than ever before. I understand the M16 is better by looking at the charts etc. but I just seem to do better when using the M416.
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Post by didjeridu on Jan 11, 2012 12:16:04 GMT -5
The slower the rate of fire, the easier it is to control recoil, burst length, and all that jazz. I mostly like the M16 better for the little things, rather than raw stats. I like the irons better, and while high bullet velocity isn't that big of a deal, I'm a lot more comfortable with it. I just like how it has the butter zone of RoF and recoil, which lets it excel at every range.
One huge thing I'll give to the M416 though, which may also explain its widespread usage, is that it's the first AR unlock. Most people don't like the faction weapon system at the start, so the M416 lets them focus on one gun. Also, the M416 was pretty popular in BC2. I loved the irons on the M416 in BC2, but I don't know what happened here.
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GoHarvard
True Bro
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Post by GoHarvard on Jan 11, 2012 16:46:37 GMT -5
^ I preferred the m416 iron sights on BC2 as well. Plus I liked the idea that by not using a scope allowed for an extra spec like more ammo, grenades, faster sprinting etc.
Is there an advantage in using iron sights on here like faster aiming?
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Post by fazzmania on Jan 11, 2012 17:01:33 GMT -5
The 416 always seemed garbage in BC2 to to me, when compared to the laser precision of the AEK/AN-94
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Post by raxcoswell on Jan 11, 2012 22:21:27 GMT -5
^ I preferred the m416 iron sights on BC2 as well. Plus I liked the idea that by not using a scope allowed for an extra spec like more ammo, grenades, faster sprinting etc. Is there an advantage in using iron sights on here like faster aiming? afaik iron sights aim in same speed as red dots and holos
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Post by fazzmania on Jan 12, 2012 3:56:22 GMT -5
^ I preferred the m416 iron sights on BC2 as well. Plus I liked the idea that by not using a scope allowed for an extra spec like more ammo, grenades, faster sprinting etc. Is there an advantage in using iron sights on here like faster aiming? afaik iron sights aim in same speed as red dots and holos Holo is slower than red dot, and red dot is the same as irons.
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Post by pankrazius on Jan 12, 2012 5:02:08 GMT -5
do you know where i can find the numbers for aim speed with different sights?
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