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Post by raxcoswell on Jan 13, 2012 9:31:18 GMT -5
Hey buddies, just sounding something out here ffs
How would guys feel about a thread aimed at this stuff? Tactics, theory etc.
The little newbie threads often get pretty good in-depth chat, something like that only for quote-unquote "advanced" players would be cool imo. A friend of mine picked this series up recently and has struggled early on due to not being an fps player. Giving tips, especially as he progressed, I was putting more concepts in my head and elements of my play in to words and becoming aware of them. That alone is fairly nice, but hearing those of other guys would be even better. Like, I feel I have a pretty good working understanding of Rush, a rough set of dos and donts in my head. I played a little TDM for the first time the other day and hit the ground running due to stuff I'd picked up from cod or wherever and could utilise here. I feel skill-wise I am a p mediocre player, but with a little nous and experience I've managed to keep my win/loss on the cool side of 4. Also from a totes selfish standpoint, I don't have a grasp of conquest the same way I do rush or tdm, and I would like to hear some highbrow chat on that.
So yeah, is anyone interested in something like this? Just posting tips and maxims/rules of thumb, observations on how various gametypes tend to play, radical strategies, ballsy gambits, risk/reward evals, whatever. Any gametype, any playstyle. Just stuff on how to win games.
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Post by rubionubio on Jan 13, 2012 10:46:38 GMT -5
I would love to discuss bro, but I'm pretty bad and/or dumb at this game. I usually just run around with something holding down my sprint key and then when someone jumps out in front of me I pee a little and then just hold down the "shoot 'em dead" button.
I guess that's a tip right there, always wear undergarments that will soak up your peepee, so that you don't make a mess on yourself when you get scared by the loud noises.
OK but seriously, I would love to do something like this and I think it's a great idea, but I just woke up and can't think yet. Maybe in a few hours I'll edit this post and have a bunch of wisdom to spout or something, after I have my coffee and Skyrim.
Edit: Lots of good tips and stuff so far, and that Reddit link has a lot of goodness just as Fazz says. I'll try to list a few things that I do that are basic, but might be helpful reminders to someone (including me)
1. Flank. Always try to flank. Even if you're pushing the frontline, always be thinking about flanking. Drop smoke at the front door and run in the side. Which brings me to my second point:
2. Use Smoke. This does not get done often enough on pubs, because you don't get points for using smoke, so people don't use it. However, I guarantee that if you go a few rounds rolling with smoke grenades and frag spec (for extras) you will see gameplay change significantly. This applies more for Rush, but for Conquest it's really helpful too. It takes some practice to get right, but is worth it.
I'll put more stuff on here as it comes to me.
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Post by didjeridu on Jan 13, 2012 13:40:25 GMT -5
Basic tips for now, mindless ranting for another day. I can't say these are advanced, but you never know what people may be oblivious to.
1. If you aren't using your class's equipment, you shouldn't be playing that class.
2. If you're using a vehicle at the start of the match, you better be going for the long distance flags (Conquest) or a safe route to an MCOM (Rush). Hiding a mile away and spamming tank shells is hurting your team a lot more than helping.
3. Never, under any circumstances, use the same squad spec as another squad member. Just assume your squadmates are braindead and change your own. You might not like having to switch every so often, but your entire squad suffers if you don't. Also, be sure to pick beneficial ones based on your squad: explosives if there are Engis, ammo if no Supports, suppression with Supports/Recons, etc.
4. If you're going to fly a jet, focus on enemy helis. Nothing screws over your team's infantry and tanks more than helis. I understand the need to evade enemy jets, but if you're dogfighting the entire round, you're essentially useless.
5. Never, ever wait at the spawn for vehicles. If you absolutely must wait for one, spawn in it.
6. Do not fly/drive if you don't know how. I don't care if you need practice, do it in a practice server. Especially with helis, if your bad piloting leads to destruction, you're potentially taking several teammates with you.
7. Always sweep the surroundings as a tank gunner. Never look where the main turret is looking. Pay close attention to the rear. Spot like crazy. Shoot at infantry only. If a heli is already targeting you then feel free to let loose, but you aren't helping anyone by taking potshots when they don't see you. And never shoot an enemy tank. You alerting the tank to your presence can be the difference between a rear shot and a side shot.
8. Don't be a wookie. Ever. For any reason. Stop it. I said no. Bad Recon.
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Post by SheWolf on Jan 13, 2012 16:55:51 GMT -5
i have one rule that is extremely basic, but it has served me very very well in the past, ever since the wake island demo for bf1942.
don't be a specialist.
that's it, really. if you think about it, in detail that means that you should not stick to one class, one field, one weapon, one strategy.
i see so many games lost because spawning players decide to be the 9th recon defending a strategic rock close to their attacker spawn, or because of assaults refusing to do anything else but being assault while an enemy tank wreaks havoc in their midst. all it would take is to spawn as an engineer that one time. yet the "someone else will do it" attitude of most (usually bad) players enables the enemy to gain ground with little efford.
pick up kits of fallen guys. change class when you spawn. change your equipment. pick up the kits of your fallen buddies and use them when you need to.
it's a small tip, but i see it forgotten very often, especially but not exclusively by new players.
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Post by fazzmania on Jan 13, 2012 20:01:45 GMT -5
www.reddit.com/r/battlefield3/comments/npq17/the_christmas_noobs_resource_guide/ this has some great stuff, in particular interest is the 3 part high level strategy guide. I'll offer some quick tips in the meantime. 1. An exceptional player can and will utilize every role in a single game. Tank driving, flanking, supporting the team, flying the chopper, etc. The more things you can do the more useful you are. As you get better you'll be able to see gaps in your team's makeup and see what you need to do to win. At the same time, you shouldn't be a slave to your team. This is something I would imagine some people disagree with, and perhaps it's not the best plan if you're a new player, but if you are good, then staying away from your team and just working alone/with a squad is the most effective tactic. Enemies are going to be on edge if they see a huge force approaching them, but they are vulnerable to small targeted attacks from behind or at different bases. Fighting with the team gets me killed more often than fighting alone does. I have to stress though, this only works if you know how to handle yourself and have great situational awareness. It's easy to be picked off and then not have any medics around to get your up if you lose concentration. 2. WATCH THE MINIMAP. This is probably the most underrated tip ever. The minimap is sooo important. It provides a gargantuan amount of intel that most players seem to ignore. I'm constantly flicking back and forth between my main view and the minimap thanks to BC2 and COD making it instinctive. It's hard to do this at first but it WILL pay off. I'm able to get easy kills while I'm travelling to my destination, while defending myself from anyone who might be on the hunt. If you flank a base (My favourite base to do this on is D (hilltop) on caspian, say if your team is engaging from another angle, you'll be able to get a rough idea of what kind of forces they have deployed by watching for flickers of orange. 3. Quick conquest tips because I play it the most. Don't use the same conventional attack route over and over. A good example would be wake island, the defenders usually start on the two ends of the island ready to repel anything that comes ashore. Why not take a squad of guys all the way around the back of C (the central airfield point) on a boat and steal the point. Anything you can learn in The Art of War applies to Battlefield 3. Striking points that they don't expect resistance at is a key part of succeeding in conquest. For example on a map like Kharg island, both teams will cap their closest point immediately then move off to fight in the middle. If you get a boat or the scout and go straight for their first point you can usually steal it after everyone leaves. Use your brain when it comes to taking points with your team. If your team is engaging heavy resistance and you're not able to fight on the flag, then you're being useless. Immediately reroute and cap somewhere else. This isn't real life, there will ALWAYS be weak points in the defence, thanks to the general lack of coordination of pubs. I frequently cap points by myself (This is assuming you're able to handle 2-3 defenders on your own) as a lot of the time, either nobody will spawn to defend or it'll be an amount I can deal with. Recon with a PDW is amazing with this, drop the TUGS or MAV at your feet and wait for enemies to come, it's like having hacks. Lastly, unless the teams are incredibly imbalanced, if you have the majority of points, playing defensively is the best option. This is particularly true when the enemy only has 1 point (say on caspian). With 4 points to defend it's inevitable that your defences will break if the enemy focuses a point head on, so be prepared to intercept them. Lay some mines, C4, get a MAV in the air, etc. If you can break the will of your enemy you will win. You don't need to go and get that last point, because if the whole team does (and this often happens) you'll lose 3 bases behind you because nobody was defending.
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Post by raxcoswell on Jan 16, 2012 0:30:20 GMT -5
Okay since I made this thread I guess I should post. Going to talk about rush since that's what I know.
Rush Theory
One of four styles will be imposed upon you before you even spawn. Obviously, you are either attacking or defending. And also, you will be playing one of two types of map. Call them what you want. Small map, CQC map, infantry map. What defines these is that the routes are laid out for you. To plant A on the first stage of Grand Bazaar, you either have to run down the road or run down the passage. They tend to be light on vehicles, especially for the defender. They tend to be smaller and crowded, both in terms of people and cover. Then you have your big maps, which are just not that. They have vehicles for everyone, and the routes to the MComs are relatively unconstrained.
Defending one of these big maps is, in my opinion, pretty grim. It's often boring, especially against unskilled oppposition, and it's unforgiving. All things being equal, this is the mode that will get you your worse K/Ds and lowest SPMs. On the first stage of Kharg Island you can go five minutes without seeing anyone you can realistically engage. The attackers likely have an abundance of vehicles to your relative paucity, and they can hit you from more-or-less wherever they like. Tactically, I haven't discovered much to these beyond focus. You want zonal marking, to use soccer terms; you want to keep your shape. When you run off from your spot to C4 that tank, you're often messing up. It's hard because it's often quite boring, as I said. For your role, you need to bear in mind the map and also the quality of the opposing team, but I think overall assault is actually the weakest class for this. For vehicle-heavy maps, the javelin is king. For say, Kharg Island, my dream squad would be engineer/engineer/support/recon, with javelins and a soflam. This is one of the few times I'd actually recommend a bolt action sniper, too. These games are slow, often you can set up your camp all nice with your soflam and spawn beacon and all that and be there for quite a long time. Your soflam priorities keep you pretty static, so the bolt action lets you help out in your downtime. Of course, if you get a vehicle, it's fine. It's business as usual. It's just when the vehicles are all taken and there's still 8 of you sitting around, it's easy for them all to sit on the highest tower and snipe. This is terrible. You need to be on the ground, if no one else is, ready to react. This is the mode where spotting is the most important. A guy who slips through undetected is suddenly a missing squad, and on these maps it is very hard to dislodge a plant set up by a full squad, since you're unlikely to be able to bring much to bear in the timeframe. You need to be able to read the game and know where to be. If you're set up on your nice tower playing Jonny Soflam, when you're designating a tank at the back, but there's 7 attackers on foot by the MCom, it's time to cheese it back to base, However, when your defence is relatively tight, most of you should be pushing up. There should ideally be a bit of a consensus about which MCom is your favourite. Against a halfway decent team you're probably going to lose one whatever happens, due to how thinly you're spread on these maps and how they have the benefit of being able to focus their forces. So you want to be able to keep the MCom you find easier to defend alive. And when the other one goes, your shape should totally change. You should shrink massively, accept that you're now going to get flanked and instead focus on not having your lines broken. Vehicles should stay tight with everyone else. There's often an MCom they have to get to on foot, and this is normally the one I'd pick to keep alive given the choice. Here, you can sit right on the MCom if need be, and have a fighting chance against attackers. Whereas with one out in the open, you'll just take a tank shell to the groin. When you get to this stage, it plays much more like the close maps. Those recons want to switch class on respawn, and assault suddenly becomes a much better pick. Sitting in the MCom room is totally viable with an assault and a support.
But basically, tactically this mode is dead and I hate it. It's all react react react. You're so static, and as soon as you stop being, you become so vulnerable. Soflam and javelin is the only way I've found being on foot feeling worthwhile, otherwise you're just sat around, running between the MComs waiting for an attacker to finally appear, or one of your vehicles to respawn so you can actually play. Worst of all, you can't even dominate. The better you are, the more boring it is. My own sessions almost always end when I'm offered the option of defending Kharg Island or Operation Firestorm against a team I've just beaten 10 times in a row, or turning off the game and doing literally anything else.
Also, kill the fucking Amtrac. It's a gamewinner for a good team. Amtrac>attack chopper>transport chopper>tank>ifv>infantry>scout chopper>jets>snipers is pretty much how I prioritise stuff here.
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Post by rubionubio on Jan 16, 2012 8:11:29 GMT -5
I think you just spelled out why - and I was un-aware of this - I haven't really "felt" Rush since the early days of BC2. I would have fun playing it sometimes, and then hate it other times and think the game sucks, etc.
I'm pretty sure all those times I was playing on one of the large, vehicle-centric Rush maps. It sucks both on offense and defense IMO, but I'm not a vehicle guy. Maybe it's a different story if you like vehicles or something. But the close maps (Valpo in BC2 or Laguna Presa or Isla or dammit BC2 had some great maps) I have a lot of fun and feel useful, and when flanking (my usual tactic of choice) I come across clumps of badguys to mow down en masse, which just gets my rocks off.
Useful tips I know!
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Post by raxcoswell on Jan 16, 2012 8:21:10 GMT -5
Not sure what part of me thought it was a good idea to write a pile of semicoherent drivel at 5am last night. Probably the same part that thought it was fine to go to work on 2 hours sleep.
I don't mind attacking those levels, btw, because at least you're in charge of what you do. But yeah, I don't like how vehicle-centric they can be. If your squad got wiped and there's no vehicles back at base, there's just no point in spawning, which is dumb/lame.
But yeah my quasi-lucid spiel is oversimplifying. Think I was feeling salty about wake island etc. Maps like Karkand, Damavand are a definite mid-type from the all-infantry corridor-scraps and all-cars driving sims. They're also probably my favourite type.
Anyway yeah that post isn't really great as anything except as a reason for why I don't like those kinds of maps. It's too proscriptive and doesn't deal w/any 'why's' which is more what I wanted. I'll have a stab at something when I can actually think.
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Post by didjeridu on Jan 16, 2012 12:20:48 GMT -5
That's why I despise Rush with vehicles, and Rush on Caspian, Kharg, Canals, and Firestorm specifically (I think Oman too, but I can't recall). At least for the first set of MCOMs, it's a brutal, long haul for the Attackers that's impossible without vehicles. For the Defenders, unless you're a Javelin Engi or a Recon, you pretty much just stand there until the Attackers get their act together, if they ever do.
Obviously vehicles are a big part of Rush, and are one of the only tools the Attackers have; especially since rockets/C4 don't destroy MCOMs anymore, which I miss greatly (I don't miss building collapses destroying them though). But I think a big part of that is the maps themselves. There's no reason why Attackers should have to move across a mile of open wasteland, just begging to be sniped or peppered by gunfire. Two examples of Rush I love are Metro and Karkand. Yeah, I said Metro, at least for the first metro part. It may be a long tunnel, but there are numerous sideroutes to take, so the Defenders really have to watch every possible route to make sure squads don't squeeze through somewhere. And on Karkand, it's basically the same thing, but more open. The Attackers can come from pretty much anywhere.
Of course I'll just throw all that out the window, since it doesn't matter anyway. The real problem I have with Rush is that people are wacky guys (lolDenFilter). Defenders don't defend, they don't spawn trap, they just run around randomly. Attackers don't push up, ever. Eventually I rambo my way through and plant by myself, but it doesn't matter if no one will help prevent the defuse. People are just too used to Conquest and TDM. Those modes let you do whatever the hell you want, and it doesn't matter. Sure, on Conquest someone needs to be capping flags, but if you're just mindlessly shooting things you're still helping out somewhat. Depending on the map of course, Rush is really only good for easy points as Defenders. I only like playing Rush with people who know what they're doing. Then, Rush is way more fun than Conquest.
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Post by rudybojangles on Jan 16, 2012 13:58:15 GMT -5
Stupid Tips You Should Have Already Realized, Presented by Rudy Bojangles
#1 (Positioning and You)
---> Most people go long stretches with one gun. This is COMPLETELY FINE, as long as you can/the enemy lets you position yourself for victory. The best class at doing this is the Recon class. To balance this, DICE slapped them with sniper rifles, which absolutely dominate at ranges of 60m+, but can't benefit from a well placed spawn beacon. Spawn beacon tactics are a subject in themselves, but let's move on from that point. The short of it is find a place for your spawn beacon (there are many places in each map) that allows you to consistently engage the enemy at your chosen weapon's strongest ranges. ---> I have been rolling with PDWs recently, and I highly recommend this strategy. On rush maps and on defense, place your spawn beacon about 1/4 of the way from your average objective spacing to the enemy's spawn. Too far and you risk the spawn beacon, too close to the objectives and you risk having to run a lot, and not putting constant pressure on the enemy. A recon with a PDW like the P90 is such a threat to the attackers that you can single-handedly collapse an entire route. ---> To make this strategy work, you must use motion sensors to judge movements through hotly contested areas. Try to move parralel to enemy movements without exposing yourself to long lines of sight for large lengths of time, or you risk being picked off by an LMG or AR. Begin engagements when you are sideways. Use hipfire to increase CQB survivability. Laser sights work wonders. Strafe left, then right while holding down the trigger. If they do not see you yet, engage with hipfire bursts to maintain maximum field of view - remember! enemies will swarm to you. If you properly position your TUGS/MAV, you will have the upper hand for the first few kills you get. They will get wise, if you want longer streaks, continue to snake through cover, use silencers if available, and be wary of the minimap. ---> On attacking, you want to do different things. Push up hard, and place in secluded areas of the map, hopefully on quieter flanks. PDWs are not nearly as effective when attacking, because defenders have a much easier time dictating distance. I spend more time on attack in my MAV, surveying long shots where I will be exposed to long direct lines. Defenders are always pushing up from their spawn, just keep that in mind. If you can, fly your MAV between you and the objective so you get maximum coverage to push up. Be liberal with placement of the radio beacon! Slow pushes are rewarded. Only move your radio beacon up when you think you have a great chance of succeeding. ---> KNOW WHEN YOU ARE BEAT. Your team is being bush wookies, you are constantly throwing yourself at a patient defense. Pick up your spawn beacon, or spawn on a flanking teammate, or even spawn at the beginning, if you have an opportunity to break that streak. ---> CONSIDER USING A MR, like the Mk11 or the SKS on defense to pick off opposition. This will not let you be disruptive in a spawn, but will help you and your teammates push up slowly in a crawl.
Conquest,
---> ...the recon has a less defined role. You can cap points, and the MAV is the best weapon to do this, because you can monitor where the enemy spawns. They WILL spawn on flags that are being contested, even if there has been little activity on the flag. Spawning enemies always show as blips on the radar because the first thing anyone does is move. Keep low, wait for opportune times to strike, and come from above (altitude, off the ground) or behind them. Hopefully you will have neutralized the flag before they spawn. ---> On a map that allows any aerial units, you parachute in unless there is an obstruction overhead. You always face north, and can spawn in and parachute a very long way. Use this information - place beacons 70+m south of objectives *use the compass below the minimap to accomplish this.* ---> Again with positioning for gunplay, conquest is much harder to plan for, as enemy movements are less rigid. I am a sucker for PDWs, which means that I am often caught out in fights that I am unable to win. The AS VAL and MRs provide flexibility in this regard if you find yourself out of position a lot in gun play, but careful spawn placement and planning, and movement through cover helps you immensely.
NOTE: There is an unfortunate bug in the game which makes things like C4 and claymores to persist for a few seconds after you respawn. Unfortunately, that means the MAV will persist for a few seconds as well. The game sees that you have deployed one, and takes away your MAV from your inventory. Keep this in mind, that in the worst case scenarios, you will be without an MAV every other spawn. This can be remedied with a support's ammo crate.
More to come later.
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Post by rubionubio on Jan 17, 2012 3:40:39 GMT -5
This thread is like looking at porn to a BF junkie like me.
Don't stop.
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Post by raxcoswell on Jan 17, 2012 5:49:37 GMT -5
I like your recon points a lot rudy, and I agree. I never play recon on conquest myself, just don't get the point really. But it's so strong on rush, people just don't realise because it's gadget doesn't just immediately start spewing points all over itself as soon as you use it
On individual maps, since didjeridu brought them up: yeah, it's those ridiculous first stages I really hate. If you don't know what you're doing, they're hard. New/unconfident players attacking on Kharg is just awful for everyone. Noshahr I don't mind, due to the placement of the vehicles, it's highly unlikely the AA will have dropped either helo before they have both deposited their first load of dudes onto the docks, and there's enough cover for it to work ok for infantry then (although that massive flat space between the two MComs sucks, and that warehouse roof is such a coward-magnet). Oman is actually ridiculous. Like Grand Bazaar, the attackers can actually reach the MComs before the defenders can (this is a moronic thing).
I don't really get why players do find it so hard to attack the open approach maps. Damavand too, you get a team strung out on the hills, pointless. When I'm playing attack, if I ever stop moving, I always ask myself why have I stopped. And unless I have a fantastic reason (a man with a gun can see me is not one) then I get moving again. Stationary attackers are useless humans. The one exception being if you can occupy That Place near the MComs, the one that's easy to defend but let's you exert pressure (and shoot bullet) all around the base and at least one MCom. Classic one for me is that 2 story building on the 2nd base of damavand (although that little doublestack container on the first base is decent). Getting a place like that will brute force wins for you. You can look right at one mcom, shoot everyone walking to both, and send boys out to plant who you can cover the whole way. Not everywhere has somewhere like this, and those plants are almost invariably harder. On levels with Amtracs though, you've got a halfway decent one that you can drive around. I know it sucks to drive, it even sucks to use the turret really, but that are so massively overpowered in terms of what they can do. The venom is ok, but people don't seem to keen to spawn on it and parachute. Often they just like to stay in there, play with the miniguns etc. The Amtrac is so soul-sappingly unpleasant to control that it's strictly business, people spawn in + get out immediately
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Post by overlord on Jan 17, 2012 7:42:22 GMT -5
Basic tips for now, mindless ranting for another day. I can't say these are advanced, but you never know what people may be oblivious to. 3. Never, under any circumstances, use the same squad spec as another squad member. Just assume your squadmates are braindead and change your own. You might not like having to switch every so often, but your entire squad suffers if you don't. Also, be sure to pick beneficial ones based on your squad: explosives if there are Engis, ammo if no Supports, suppression with Supports/Recons, etc. 6. Do not fly/drive if you don't know how. I don't care if you need practice, do it in a practice server. Especially with helis, if your bad piloting leads to destruction, you're potentially taking several teammates with you. 8. Don't be a wookie. Ever. For any reason. Stop it. I said no. Bad Recon. On point 3 - wouldn't it be better to duplicate one of your squadmates classes if its particularly beneficial? I'm just thinking that considering how relatively ineffective weapons are against vehicles it would be better to have two engineers firing at the same vehicle rather than one? On point 6 - Am I correct in presuming that there's no practice servers on the Xbox360 for BF3? Having been guilty of running me and my squadmates into buildings a couple of times it would be good to practice, but I presume this isn't possible? On point 8 - Having read around the subject a bit I see there's a *lot* of hatred for bush wookies, which is understandable in an objective based game. However... can they be useful in distracting the opposition? I.E. if the opposition don't know, at any time, when they'll come under fire at seemingly any range if they stick their head out they move more slowly, and will be pre-occupied with the bush wookie when they should be worried about you creeping up on their objective? ( BTW - I'm relatively new to Battlefield, and I've mostly ignored forums as it's been a struggle to find conversations with adults on them - if I make any noob mistakes do contact me privately with corrections )
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Post by rudybojangles on Jan 17, 2012 8:52:02 GMT -5
On point 3 - wouldn't it be better to duplicate one of your squadmates classes if its particularly beneficial? I'm just thinking that considering how relatively ineffective weapons are against vehicles it would be better to have two engineers firing at the same vehicle rather than one? On point 6 - Am I correct in presuming that there's no practice servers on the Xbox360 for BF3? Having been guilty of running me and my squadmates into buildings a couple of times it would be good to practice, but I presume this isn't possible? On point 8 - Having read around the subject a bit I see there's a *lot* of hatred for bush wookies, which is understandable in an objective based game. However... can they be useful in distracting the opposition? I.E. if the opposition don't know, at any time, when they'll come under fire at seemingly any range if they stick their head out they move more slowly, and will be pre-occupied with the bush wookie when they should be worried about you creeping up on their objective? ( BTW - I'm relatively new to Battlefield, and I've mostly ignored forums as it's been a struggle to find conversations with adults on them - if I make any noob mistakes do contact me privately with corrections ) #3) Squad Specialization Slots (stuff like squad sprint, squad ammo, squad flak) do not stack with each other, so when you reach higher levels and unlock them, it's superior to look at what your teammates are using and use something else. Often-times, you do need to use multiple of the same classes if the map calls for it. #6) I think as of now the min players to start a match is 8. You could go for the lowest player count servers. A luxury for PC guys. #8) Battlefield 3 works as a team game that rewards a cohesive squad in that they can support each other when close, and also spawn on each other. There are places on BF3 for "wookies" (read: a colloquialism for a sniper that hangs VERY far off of the objective) but it is hard for them to be very supportive to either the squad or the team. One way that you can be more useful is to have a constantly flying MAV, which acts similar to radar sweeps or the UAV from the Call of Duty series. You can actively spot (back button) while in it, and it passively sweeps for movement anywhere under or above it in a cylinder. Having the entire other team spotted around the objective is rather invaluable, and it has been proven that this is both a good way to score a good amount of points without engaging the enemy and a good way to help teammates. However - "Bush Wookies" who sit back with a high-powered scope on a bolt action sniper are never going to do the following: 1.) Arm/Capture the objective. 2.) Provide a forward spawn point for your teammates. 3.) Defend the objective. 4.) Disrupt enemy movement flows. 5.) Disable/destroy vehicles. 6.) Be in a position to get MVP in terms of points. That's why I recommend generally using DMRs or BRs like the Mk.11 or SKS, or PDWs like the AS VAL, MP7, or P90. Those weapons are good enough at a multitude of close and middle ranges to justify you sticking with squad-mates. Good things happen when you can get to the objective.
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Post by raxcoswell on Jan 17, 2012 11:15:38 GMT -5
For distracting - maybe. It's hard to tell how much you're doing from your end though. I must say, I make a conscious effort to completely ignore all snipers. They're not going to kill me or do anything useful, so I won't let them distract me. However I have moaned at my squadpals for 'countersniping' before (ie getting distracted as you describe), so it does happen. Just no idea on the effectiveness or how to measure it
For bolt actions, the only time I've really found an excuse for taking one is when you're anti vehicle. When your 'primary weapon' is the soflam and you spend most of the time static looking down that, the odd times you're free, you're going to be god knows where, and the bolt action gives you the best chance of being useful in few seconds before you have to soflam for your engineers again. if you're by your soflam too, it's not a terrible idea to shoot people healing tanks, or guys running out of them before they blow. Although with the 2x engi thing I recommended in that drivel above, that doesn't really happen
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Post by rubionubio on Jan 18, 2012 13:41:36 GMT -5
Oh, something else I've recently started doing (I had no idea you could do this) is the whole double-tap W to sprint thing. I'm sure I was probably the only person who didn't know this, but it has helped me out greatly when I'm running and gunning with the P90. Dunno why, it just feels more natural than having to hold down the sprint key the whole time or whatever, and it also makes reload-canceling easier, for me at least. Full Disclosure: I typically only reload-cancel the LMGs in this game; It's not nearly as fast paced as CoD (where I do reload-cancel everything typically) so that extra .10 second you save by cancelling one of the ARs I just don't care about, I'd rather not fiddle with my weapon-switch key and just stay in cover a blink longer.
Speaking of weapon switching, I find fiddling with the 1,2 keys to be awkward as hell, and it took me ages to get used to the fact that they changed around from BC2 the primary/secondary keys and the lunchbox/paddles! TOTALLY screwed me up at least 20 times until I started to get the hang of it, and still when I'm in really tense situations I'll find myself reverting back, trying to hit 3 to bring out the paddles to revive a squaddie or something. Ugh. Where it hits me the worst though is when reload canceling, because I got SO UTTERLY used to doing 2,1,2 that I bring out my pistol half the time lol. My point with all this totally wasteful rambling is a question:
Do any of my Bros have a suggestion for what I could do to make weapon switching between primary and secondary a little easier or more intuitive? Do the consoles just have a weapon switch button that goes back and forth? That would be ideal, if I could map that to a key? Even if I have to build an AHK script for it, just lemme know if that's even possible?
I'm not worried at all about the 3,4 keys, this is just for those tense moments when I need to pull out a sidearm and want to avoid being an idiot and throwing an ammo-lunchbox at the guy shooting me: "Here's your ammo! Now stop shooting me!"
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Post by didjeridu on Jan 18, 2012 15:43:29 GMT -5
I never reload cancel in BF3. I'm too used to using the sprint key for canceling, but BF lets you sprint and reload at the same time for whatever reason. I never have any problems with 1, 2, or 3. It's 4 that always screws me up. I think there's a key map for toggling between primary and pistol, but I'm not 100% positive. If so, I want to use 2 as the toggle, 1 for 3, and 3 for 4. 2 is the easiest number for me to use. And I hate double tap W for sprint. I always use L-Shift, and it just feels as natural as WASD honestly. On the subject of keys I hate, I never use Z, X, or V. Ever. Well, I use X for flares, but that isn't too often. I like L-Alt, but I have a bad habit of accidentally Alt-Tabbing when I use it, so I'm trying to avoid it when possible.
I really need to go back into the BF3 Options sometime. I wouldn't forget about it if they would just let us use it outside of a game. One of the most stupid design decisions ever.
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Post by raxcoswell on Jan 18, 2012 22:07:43 GMT -5
time like this makes me think it isn't mousekeyboard>controller, but mouse>controller>keyboard
Consoles have one of the face buttons (along with reload, jump, and 'do stuff' - plant/defuse, get in/out of car etc) that just switches between primary and pistol, or to your primary if you were using something else. Then the d-pad left and right is your two gadgets (and up toggles lasers/torches).
never wanted to move controls around or have additional buttons or whatever, the controller layout is really nice. plus click+hold to sprint isn't really any different to hold to walk for us clowns
anyway though I think I read either here or on another forum about someone mapping some key to be the equivalent of the primary/pistol switch button on console
also thinking about it I don't really reload-cancel anything apart from rockets and the odd LMG. Maybe I should start doing it with the famas, that thing is gross.
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Post by SheWolf on Jan 19, 2012 6:59:07 GMT -5
might have been me. in the mouse layout topic i detailed how my thumb button of the mouse is my "OH SH*T!" button. flares and smoke for vehicles, and when on foot it toggles to primary weapon if i hold a gadged or the pistol, and to the pistol if i hold the primary. has saved my life many a time.
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Post by didjeridu on Jan 19, 2012 11:57:25 GMT -5
Ergonomically, a controller is much better than a keyboard. The main reason a keyboard is good is for the huge selection of keys. Depending on the game, you may not need to map many actions, so the small selection on a controller is just fine. Although if the mouse is taken out of the picture, two hands on a keyboard is pretty...handy. Obviously that doesn't apply to FPS, where the mouse is king. Although certain games with terrible porting/console-centered features *coughBrinkcough* practically make the keyboard pointless. Mouse controlled wheel interface, and one button does everything!
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tiesieman
True Bro
mental lagger
Posts: 1,401
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Post by tiesieman on Jan 19, 2012 12:09:24 GMT -5
I chose to play BF3 PC with a controller. It's much easier to get into flying with a controller, and even without auto aim I can hold my own decently in infantry fights.
I got those FPS freek sticks 3 days ago, and I have to say; even my recoil and idle sway control is much better now. For me, having those controller buttons instead of a keyboard is so worth ditching the mouse. The mouse is still superior of course, but this isn't a twitch shooter anyway and now that I can control recoil pretty nicely, the only thing the mouse has is faster turning and target acquisition
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Post by raxcoswell on Jan 19, 2012 20:59:45 GMT -5
so those things are actually good? I'd always just assumed they were snakeoil or emperor's new clothes or some other cultural reference from 100s of years before i was even born
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Post by rudybojangles on Jan 20, 2012 9:07:18 GMT -5
Semi-on-topic... I do remember an amazing PC montage with someone in the AoD clan (does it have steep membership requirements?? I only see good vids from their members) who claimed to use an xbox controller. He absolutely worked the hell out of the Aggressive Recon niche on BF:BC2. Can't find the video right now. It's possible, but from what I understand:
Mouse let's you have some epic precision - move mere pixels much faster than with a controller, then do 180's instantly when you get shot in the butt.
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Post by kirbyderby on Jan 20, 2012 13:15:28 GMT -5
Controller precision really depends on the controller itself as well as the sensitivity. One of the downsides is that controller sticks cannot offer both extreme speed and extreme precision. The dual analog control and easy access buttons do offer their own advantages, with stuff like flying vehicles etc.
In a game like BF3 where gunplay is of lesser importance than twitch shooters like CoD, and spread generally messes with your accuracy anyway, it's possible a good controller can hold its own against M+K.
To be fair, my PC sucks so the only FPS games I've played with a mouse are a Counter Strike clone and a Quake mod thingy. On the other hand, I'd never play those games with a controller.
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Post by rubionubio on Jan 20, 2012 13:47:20 GMT -5
Question to those of you that play with a controller on a PC: Can you use both at the same time? I'm thinking maybe I'll pick up a 360 controller and plug it in to use when flying, to see if it will help me fix my atrocious flying abilities.
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Post by SheWolf on Jan 20, 2012 13:53:31 GMT -5
i used an xbox controller for flying and M+K for the rest, worked just fine. though i switched over to a joystick instead of a controller, since the built in throttle control is just mean. switching between going the optimal turnspeed of 285 kph or whatever, maxspeed and minspeed at the fling of a single controller element is just too usefull.
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Post by didjeridu on Jan 20, 2012 16:06:00 GMT -5
I might have to try a controller sometime for flying. Right now, I'm like a bee. I can fly around well enough, although somewhat clumsily. But then when I kill someone, I die immediately afterwards. Also, I get eaten by birds easily.
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Post by t35h on Jan 21, 2012 1:57:53 GMT -5
I never have any problems with 1, 2, or 3. It's 4 that always screws me up. I think there's a key map for toggling between primary and pistol, but I'm not 100% positive. If so, I want to use 2 as the toggle, 1 for 3, and 3 for 4. 2 is the easiest number for me to use. Yeah you can set Primary Weapon toggle to 2 to flip flop between main and pistol.
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Post by t35h on Jan 21, 2012 2:51:40 GMT -5
I have both the 360 and PC version of the game. I'm still relatively new to M+K, but am considering getting a wired 360 controller for my PC. I just feel more comfortable doing most of the work with my thumbs and index fingers.
With left thumb on left-stick to stay on the move: I hit dpad-right with my right thumb to switch to defibulators, right thumb back on right-stick to aim at fallen teammate, hit the right-trigger with right index finger, quickly hit Y-button with right thumb to switch back to main weapon.
I feel less at ease doing that with M+K reaching around for keys with my fingers or trying to get use to side buttons on a mouse.
On console pressing the left stick button, while moving, will enable sprint and does not need to be held down. There's also an option to crouch/prone (press/hold) with the right bumper instead of right-stick button which I find easier than hitting X or Z. Toggling lights is achieved with dpad up, fire rate with dpad down - again much easier for me than hitting T or V.
I agree that this isn't a twitch shooter. If someone is aiming at you from behind or the side...you're dead! You just need to be able to aim accurately within your FOV and a controller, even without sticky aim/aim assist, should be good enough compared to M+K.
I'll give it a few more days, but have to admit that I get frustrated when I die simply because I'm hitting wrong keys or not reacting fast enough with my keyboard in situations when I need to reload, go prone, move sideways to get behind cover etc.
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Post by raxcoswell on Jan 21, 2012 9:38:31 GMT -5
talking of crouch/prone, are these different keys on keyboard? If you don't press them nicely, you can really mess up your little caterpillar worm dance thing.
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