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Post by Marvel4 on Feb 22, 2012 22:29:52 GMT -5
Handguns need more damage at range and less recoil, especially the Desert Eagle.
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Post by duckcall00 on Feb 22, 2012 23:20:33 GMT -5
What the hell is this? "Lets nerf the FMG9 and MP9, but buff the doo-doo out of the similarly overpowered Skorpion and G18" Since when is the Skorpion and G18 Overpowered? I never rage while playing CoD (or in any game/real life, for that matter), but I am closest when I get killed by someone abusing the FMG9 or MP9 Akimbo. On the other hand, when I am killed by a G18 outside of Shotgun range, I am impressed. As for the Skorpion, I want it to be like the BlOps version of itself. 2 hit kill at close range, no recoil for long range. Basically, a less OP version of the Type 95 with Akimbo an available attachment.
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Post by dshunter on Feb 23, 2012 7:59:47 GMT -5
The MP9 outclasses half the SMGs. It's better than all of them at mid/long range but worse than all of them at short range. But then at mid/long range it is dominated by ARs. Which makes it a secondary which practically fulfills the role of a perfect hybrid between a SMG and an AR; note the emphasis on secondary. The only reason I'm not complainng about it more is because I see rather few people using it and it makes for a perfect Overkill replacement on my shotgun class. For balance's sake, it needs a hefty recoil increase.
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wwaa
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Post by wwaa on Feb 23, 2012 8:45:58 GMT -5
....until snipers start considering overkill useful. Snipers won’t use Overkill ...
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Post by reader on Feb 23, 2012 9:45:44 GMT -5
pugs>all other dogs/animals/humans. This is him playing: The MP9 outclasses half the SMGs. It's better than all of them at mid/long range but worse than all of them at short range. But then at mid/long range it is dominated by ARs. MP7 is better at long range due to a much much higher accuracy.
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Usagi
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Post by Usagi on Feb 23, 2012 10:17:15 GMT -5
I agree with leaving the G18 as it is. It's fucking awful even when akimbo'd.
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Post by brutalonslaught on Feb 23, 2012 11:33:31 GMT -5
MP7 is better at long range due to a much much higher accuracy. UMP as well at long range. MP9 is only good at medium long ranges. I don't understand why people think secondaries should be completely useless or completely OP by primaries? Surely, they should be better than them in some regard? Also, everyone has access to the same guns.
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sh58
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Post by sh58 on Feb 23, 2012 11:36:08 GMT -5
What's with all the ammo. Usp akimbo has hardly any ammo. If they left the mp as they were but severely cut the ammo supply it would go a long way to solving the problem
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Post by Megaqwerty on Feb 23, 2012 12:32:59 GMT -5
I agree with leaving the G18 as it is. It's Foxtrotting awful even when akimbo'd. The G18 is still better than any pistol.
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Post by kirbyderby on Feb 23, 2012 12:40:27 GMT -5
I agree with leaving the G18 as it is. It's Foxtrotting awful even when akimbo'd. The G18 is still better than any pistol. I'd honestly prefer a single magnum to a single G18. Akimbo G18 would win over dual magnums for ammo.
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arcanine2009
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Post by arcanine2009 on Feb 23, 2012 12:48:07 GMT -5
A new post from today: They're nerfing akimbo. Again. Along with considering buffing LMGs and the Draggy (see my other thread). I love Infinity Ward right now. Akimbo weapons? Whaat.. As long as they don't touch the skorpion. And as I spoke with ghandi, I hope they DO prioritize in patching the Drag, on the same level as other gametuning updates..
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arcanine2009
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the definitely not obsessed with dragunov guy
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Post by arcanine2009 on Feb 23, 2012 12:50:23 GMT -5
Handguns need more damage at range and less recoil, especially the Desert Eagle. What they should do IMO, is to increase all their minimum damage from 17 to 20. The magnums + deagle iMO, should have an increased minimum range to 25 to 30. . Just make it strong as it was in BO and previous versions, is what I'm saying! In a perfect world, the MP412, L118A, and PM-9 would get buffs to have niches over . 44 Mag, MSR, and PP90M1..But one can only dream. 9_9
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wittyscorpion
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All warfare is based on deception.
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Post by wittyscorpion on Feb 23, 2012 13:24:39 GMT -5
A new post from today: They're nerfing akimbo. Again. Along with considering buffing LMGs and the Draggy (see my other thread). I love Infinity Ward right now. Akimbo weapons? Whaat.. As long as they don't touch the skorpion. And as I spoke with ghandi, I hope they DO prioritize in patching the Drag, on the same level as other gametuning updates.. Robert Bowling has confirmed nerf for FMG9 Akimbo through his tweet:
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Post by Voice from the Basement on Feb 23, 2012 13:28:50 GMT -5
I suppose IW won't fix akimbo NoobMG9 - it's their lovely gun. Look: now akimbo NoobMG9 has the same ROF as its usual single version. All other MPs have decreased ROF ( according to wwa's tests). I just want to have pre-patched laser akimbo Skorpions with a low ROF (like 600 RPM or even less) and akimbo NoobMG9 fixed… It never happens.
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Post by 8bitasplode on Feb 23, 2012 14:20:27 GMT -5
Handguns need more damage at range and less recoil, especially the Desert Eagle. What they should do IMO, is to increase all their minimum damage from 17 to 20. The magnums + deagle iMO, should have an increased minimum range to 25 to 30. . Just make it strong as it was in BO and previous versions, is what I'm saying! In a perfect world, the MP412, L118A, and PM-9 would get buffs to have niches over . 44 Mag, MSR, and PP90M1..But one can only dream. 9_9 I feel like nefing the machine pistols, buffing the shotguns, and buffing the LMGs are more important things right now. (and luckily the dev team finally added buffing LMGs to their list.)
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j1000
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Post by j1000 on Feb 23, 2012 15:20:25 GMT -5
The reason to avoid akimbo in MW3 should be the same reason people avoid akimbo in real life: You can't hit the broad side of a barn with two guns blazing. This is how Black Ops handled the situation and it worked great.
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Post by tmkruelty on Feb 23, 2012 16:51:58 GMT -5
The reason to avoid akimbo in MW3 should be the same reason people avoid akimbo in real life: You can't hit the broad side of a barn with two guns blazing. This is how Black Ops handled the situation and it worked great. Unless you are talking about AA-12s.
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Post by dshunter on Feb 24, 2012 5:39:46 GMT -5
I don't understand why people think secondaries should be completely useless or completely OP by primaries? Surely, they should be better than them in some regard? And I don't understand why people think secondaries should be equal to or better than primaries in some regards. If I equip myself with an SMG, I expect to do well at close quarters battles. If I manage to close in on an enemy sniper - who picked his primary to excel at long range, but suck up close - and he simply whips out his dual wonderguns and takes me out because those have a faster TTK than my primary, something feels terribly wrong to me. After all, there's no secondary that would rival a sniper rifle at long distance, now is there? Secondaries are - as their name implies - a second choice, something to resort to not because it can be more efficient than your primary, but because you're in a tight spot. If you get in a tight spot, you should have a small/decent chance to come out alive, but that's all.
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Post by cashmoves on Feb 24, 2012 9:16:24 GMT -5
I don't understand why people think secondaries should be completely useless or completely OP by primaries? Surely, they should be better than them in some regard? And I don't understand why people think secondaries should be equal to or better than primaries in some regards. If I equip myself with an SMG, I expect to do well at close quarters battles. If I manage to close in on an enemy sniper - who picked his primary to excel at long range, but suck up close - and he simply whips out his dual wonderguns and takes me out because those have a faster TTK than my primary, something feels terribly wrong to me. After all, there's no secondary that would rival a sniper rifle at long distance, now is there? Secondaries are - as their name implies - a second choice, something to resort to not because it can be more efficient than your primary, but because you're in a tight spot. If you get in a tight spot, you should have a small/decent chance to come out alive, but that's all. I very much agree. I feel like secondaries should be most helpful for getting snipers out of trouble. the devs shouldn't let an acr wielding dude run out of bullets and swap to akimbo rape machines with 69000 bullets per mag to continue to lay waste... that's literally stupid. IW, ITS STUPID. what's even MORE STUPID is the guy understanding its best to swap to his secondary every time he's in cqc just because they are ten times better than his assault rifle primary... secondaries are BACKUPS in emergency situations. machine pistols should ONLY be primaries. handguns need a damage buff at range. also, launchers can remain unchanged. once you weaken secondaries you buff scavenger and make extended mags more common which makes you choose between kick or an additional silencer. it makes the game more interesting. powerful secondaries make the game dull. edit* and how many times have you bros seen this picture: clown runs bolt action, soh, qd, marksman - tries to railgun, misses three times, whips out akimbo rape machines and feels no hit to his pride whatsoever... if he were to whip out an m9, id have much less problem with the situation.
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Post by reader on Feb 24, 2012 10:50:06 GMT -5
^^^One thing missing. It's extremely unrealistic for people able to carry a Shaw or RPG but only has 2 spare mags, I think by default there should 4-6 spare mags.
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Post by kirbyderby on Feb 24, 2012 10:59:44 GMT -5
^^^One thing missing. It's extremely unrealistic for people able to carry a Shaw or RPG but only has 2 spare mags, I think by default there should 4-6 spare mags. It's not a matter of realism; launchers have limited ammo in CoD for balance reasons. it's game balance. 4-6 spare mags would eliminate the need for scavenger.
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adw1983
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Post by adw1983 on Feb 24, 2012 11:02:22 GMT -5
I love Call of Duty:
CoD4: Weapon balance is great; M16 is slightly overpowered, G36C, R700 and Mini-Uzi are underpowered. Shotguns were bad. Usable on small maps, useful even... but you could not dedicate three classes to shotguns. Without Overkill, that is.
God! I remember I had a class with M14 and Dragunov, and one class with shotgun and Dragunov.
WHY THE FUCK DO THEY EVEN HAVE SMGS AS SECONDARIES WHEN THEY HAVE OVERKILL IN MW3 ?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!111111111111111111OneThousandOneHundredAndEleven111
Problem with the perk 2s in CoD4 was that stopping power made M16 godly versus everyone not using juggernaut... and that double tap was useless compared to stopping power. Martyrdom and Last Stand were annoying, but they are back in three forms in MW3. Dead Man's Hand, Martyrdom and Last Stand.
Why would anyone ever use overkill now and sacrifice Assassin Pro or Quickdraw for a secondary weapon when Akimbo SMGs are better than the regular SMGs?
MW2: Shotguns recieve a MAJOR boost, and become secondaries..! Secondary SMGs completely outclass pistols, and secondary weapons become something you switch to in order to rape on short range, and not a backup.
In addition to stopping power, they added a perk that lets you kill people FASTER that you could use WITH stopping power.
That perk exists today. Quickdraw.
Kill enemies faster.
I feel forced to use it on EVERY of my 9 profiles in MW3.
I only ever use Assassin as the 2 killstreak for specialist; Quickdraw is simply too good. It is better than stopping power in terms of time to kill on medium range in chance encounters.
But nerfing the secondary SMGs is great.
I just wish they didn't even have fully automatic sub-machineguns as secondaries... I loved my USP.45 and love overkill.
Launchers as secondaries is also kind of boring... 90% of the players in a game have akimbo SMGs as secondary, and half of the good players use their secondaries for most of their kills because spraying akimbo SMGs with steady aim yields instant kills on all distances.
... ...
All said and done, good fucking riddance. They litterally CANNOT be nerfed enough.
Useless? They're secondaries. The last resort. Switch them for a weeapon dropped by an enemy already, like you should!
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Post by reader on Feb 24, 2012 11:03:18 GMT -5
^^^One thing missing. It's extremely unrealistic for people able to carry a Shaw or RPG but only has 2 spare mags, I think by default there should 4-6 spare mags. It's not a matter of realism; launchers have limited ammo in CoD for balance reasons. I am talking about guns, and I don't see a balance issue when AR come with 180 by default.
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Post by kirbyderby on Feb 24, 2012 11:08:29 GMT -5
It's not a matter of realism; launchers have limited ammo in CoD for balance reasons. I am talking about guns, and I don't see a balance issue when AR come with 180 by default. Post edited. Regardless, it's still a matter of game balancing. If weapons had that much spare ammo, there would be no point in using Scavenger.
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Post by reader on Feb 24, 2012 11:17:06 GMT -5
I am talking about guns, and I don't see a balance issue when AR come with 180 by default. Post edited. Regardless, it's still a matter of game balancing. If weapons had that much spare ammo, there would be no point in using Scavenger. So? People get to use perks that make them better instead of a perk it's there is fix a design flaw.
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j1000
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Post by j1000 on Feb 24, 2012 11:37:35 GMT -5
Post edited. Regardless, it's still a matter of game balancing. If weapons had that much spare ammo, there would be no point in using Scavenger. So? People get to use perks that make them better instead of a perk it's there is fix a design flaw. I don't mind the limited ammo. It's there to encourage you to use your secondary (or to pick a weapon up from the ground). But of course that all falls apart when the secondary is *better* than the primary, sigh. I think this is what a lot of people don't get about balance. Balance creates an environment where you are encouraged to try new ways of solving the same problem. In the case of CoD, by using a different weapon or a different perk. This variety enriches the experience and makes it more enjoyable. When a handful of weapons stand out as being clearly superior, people begrudgingly gravitate toward those weapons, because who wants to play with a handicap? So if you're never encouraged to switch to your secondary, that detracts from the game's variety. The same is true when the secondary is so OP that most other secondaries (and many primaries) are not worth considering.
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Post by bropocalypse on Feb 24, 2012 13:16:55 GMT -5
I agree with the "secondaries should be a last resort" statement, and agree that it's a bit ludicrous that there are so many situations where it's better to put your assault rifle down and pick up a machine pistol.
That said, it makes sense that machine pistols are dominant close up. Super close up, at least. The only thing that should be able to beat them is a shotgun, which is true right now. If you think about it, if you were walking through a very close space you'd prefer to have a machine pistol than an assault rifle - they're just quicker to aim and fire.
I don't think slowing down the fire rate is the solution (and makes little sense if you think about it, not that making sense is a real priority over balancing), I think drastically reducing accuracy is the solution. Make the hipfire go everywhere so that it's an enormous spray. They'd still be good inside the dome or near the edges of the middle of Mission but they'd be useless in the wider open areas. They'd no longer be the go-to for snipers. And the shotgun/mp9 class would suddenly become a serious option for someone looking for CQC.
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Post by cashmoves on Feb 24, 2012 13:31:05 GMT -5
I agree with the "secondaries should be a last resort" statement, and agree that it's a bit ludicrous that there are so many situations where it's better to put your assault rifle down and pick up a machine pistol. That said, it makes sense that machine pistols are dominant close up. Super close up, at least. The only thing that should be able to beat them is a shotgun, which is true right now. If you think about it, if you were walking through a very close space you'd prefer to have a machine pistol than an assault rifle - they're just quicker to aim and fire. I don't think slowing down the fire rate is the solution (and makes little sense if you think about it, not that making sense is a real priority over balancing), I think drastically reducing accuracy is the solution. Make the hipfire go everywhere so that it's an enormous spray. They'd still be good inside the dome or near the edges of the middle of Mission but they'd be useless in the wider open areas. They'd no longer be the go-to for snipers. And the shotgun/mp9 class would suddenly become a serious option for someone looking for CQC. if you HAVE to have machine pistols as a secondary, then allow akimbo only on handguns. make the damage low even close up. give it the kick of the fmg9. slower swap times than pistola. no one would use them except after running out of ammo or in tight quarters where it would be advantageous, especially over sniper rifles, semi autos, and burst rifles. if you think you require a machine pistol while wielding a sub or full auto ar, you're doing it wrong.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Feb 24, 2012 14:28:30 GMT -5
That said, it makes sense that machine pistols are dominant close up. Super close up, at least. The only thing that should be able to beat them is a shotgun, which is true right now. No, it doesn't. The automatic CQC primary weapon class, i.e. SMGs, should absolutely dominate machine pistols. I do agree that using fire rate to balance akimbo MPs is ludicrous: the obvious solution is to simply increase hip spread. They don't even have to go to Black Ops extremes on this: PP2000 or SMG akimbo from MW2 would be a huge improvement over current affairs. (On that note, I miss SMG akimbo: if we had access to PP90 akimbo, no one would probably be complaining about akimbo FMGs and we would have a good excuse to buff the shit out of shotguns.)
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Post by brutalonslaught on Feb 24, 2012 14:47:53 GMT -5
Why the Foxtrot should secondaries be backups? SECONDARY AS IN ALTERNATIVE.
0 range - knife very short range - mps short range - smgs medium range - ARs long range - LMGs very long range - sniper
This is HOW THE GAME WORKS AT THE MOMENT. The MPs are only effective at very short range, they DO NOT work at long range because of their recoil. I know, I use them, I kill lots of people with them and I rarely die by them. If I know someone is using them I modify my play style immediately and crush them. If I'm using a SMG I won't even change my playstyle.
Why is it ludicrous to not use your assault rifle in CQC and drop it for something more mobile? Ever fired an assault rifle? I have, I wouldn't ever use one indoors. Any of you know anyone in the special forces? They don't even like using MP5Ks inside, they will drop it and pull their pistol because mobility and speed trump power.
Akimbo MPs should take twice as long to pull out but in terms of power they are absolutely fine. I think it's probably more your skill and reaction times (or lack of) that's the problem. I wish I could get killed by stats in Elite like in Black Ops. I reckon I've been killed less than 200 times by MPs from over 8k deaths.
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