|
Post by rudybojangles on Mar 30, 2012 8:00:03 GMT -5
Bros:
This patch is overall very good. There are several things which they have omitted, some of which really make me upset. But let's talk about the mechanical things which they changed.
1.) Weapon Attachment Balance: Now, there is more of a semblance of balance between all of the weapon attachments. The suppressor was brought down from god-like to average, the heavy barrel and flash suppressor are semi-useful, and the grip got a needed nerf. I think that the foregrip nerf was pretty heavy-handed, though, so maybe it went into the range of completely worthless (except on half of the LMGs), so it's still weird for me.
2.) The MP7 got nerfed: Sad day. On paper, the nerf is not apparent, considering the laser sight attachment was buffed in conjunction with the nerf of the hip-fire. So, it would look like a flat change with a bump up in max-range damage. What I am observing is the hip-fire reticule starts as small as it ever did, but expands towards the higher maximum hip-fire MUCH faster, which lowers the effectiveness, even when doing quick bursts. I'll have to relearn my favorite gun.
3.) Oh...My...God. The AS VAL w/ ext mags is TOO good. It won't wreck close range like faster assault rifles, but it is much better at range (remember, the sniper bullet drop). Also, there was some speculation that the first-shot multiplier would be 1.5x, not 0.5x. I am not so sure that it's 0.5x (or maybe the multiplier debate was 1.5x over 2.5x, can't be bothered to look it up right now. Regardless, it's definitely the lower of the two multipliers.) The extra bullets make range kills 64.9% easier.
4.) M26 MASS. It felt better with buck shot. I know that buck shot as an ammunition got changed, but I had a great time with it. (Sorry, subjective).
5.) M240B is good again. I cleaned up with close range kills once again. Welcome back, old buddy.
6.) PKP is on-par again. I saw a lot of PKP users, and I was beating them with my 240B at range (even with a foregrip).
7.) Speaking of foregrip/bipod: I have not equipped a bipod to play around with the toggle bipod again. I really need to try now!
8.) G3A3 now is viable, where before it was painful. However, it's not amazing still. The F2000, M16, & KH2002 all are better at every range. It is a good rifle for options, but performs only average at range. 5 shot guarentee is nice though, and the HBar and no forward attachment combo is very accurate.
9.) SCAR-H is amazing once again. It's too good. I think it was fine with 17 max damage, 18.7 would have been fine too, but they bumped it to 20, making it as good as the G3 at range if you can avoid legs. Very solid choice in weapon.
Disclaimer: I played mostly metro rush last night, no vehicle time. I have heard that tanks are now extremely squishy: 2-3 hits to kill, tank fights are more decided on who hits first, and RPGs do work. Seems like an ok change.
DOES THE FAMAS REALLY HAVE 25 rds?
|
|
mrite
True Bro
Posts: 239
|
Post by mrite on Mar 30, 2012 15:02:14 GMT -5
the famas does only have 25 rounds, haven't been able to try anything with it, as i have no attachments, and was killed before i could do anything, it seems like a nerf.
The PDWs are now all amazing in their own way, with the PP-19 being a ranged P90, the MP7 being a hipfire monster still, the PP2K has even less recoil, as does the UMP, the ASVAL has alot more recoil and more range, and the P90 seems better, as it became a mix between the buffed PP19 and the MP7
The AN-94 finally has a good fire rate, and the G3 is a mixture between close range monster, and long range sniper, but suffers at mid range, speaking of snipers, the bolts are usable, but not overpowered in any way shape or form. The SKS is a beast with buffed recoil and a Two hit kill, giving it ultimate power, especially for anyone with the physical warfare pack.
The slow semi autos are not changed much, they still have a 0 TTK to medium range with a headshot, but now missed shots are not punished as much.
The SG553 is amazing, and gets the title of most versatile carbine, the G53 is similar, but trades fire rate for controllability. the AK74 gets virtually no recoil, as does the QBZ, but the QBZ has very large spread, which is fixed by the HBAR laser combo. The A-91 is not as good as it was, but still works, and the M4 is amazing in both forms.
The shotguns do not appreciate the buck nerf, but flechette is about the same, it just requires more accuracy. Frags dont work anymore for most jobs, as they now are nigh useless outside flechette range, but have huge spread. finally, slugs are gods gift to mid range, as they can either one hit kill to medium range, or become long range battle rifles.
LMGs are better than ever at holding down a position with the new bipod, but are much worse when running and gunning, except for the QBB, which becomes a slow killing assault rifle with a large clip.
Tanks are not as good, and you need both Reactive armor, smoke, and Prox scan in order to dominate, but they still work. the Stinger buff is amazing, and renders most pilots useless (me included) but those with crafty tactics can succeed. Finally, the Javelin is the best AT weapon now
|
|
|
Post by didjeridu on Mar 30, 2012 16:14:54 GMT -5
I still need to play a bit more to get my final verdict, but overall it's just nice to play BF3 again. I can't wait to try out some guns again, since half of them are like a whole new gun. Then there's always my long lost lovers in the G3, M240, and SCAR. Unfortunately I forgot all about the M240, and was too busy goofing around with the 200 round RPK.
Bipod is pretty nice now that I've got the button set up. There's no reason not to use it now that the foregrip is so...bleh. HBAR and FS are great, and now it's really hard choosing a barrel attachment. If only there were real choices for the second slot...
I'll probably play Recon a lot more now. Passive SOFLAM, SKS buff, and slightly better PDWs make it a lot more attractive. Well, not all PDWs. Actually, forget I said anything. VAL, PP-19, or bust.
There's too much to do now. There are so many weapons I want to play with, so many attachment combos to try, etc. At least I finally got that piece of crap L85. Decided to play SQDM on a whim last night and got 5 wins in a row. Lucky me.
Edit: Well, after playing a little more, my main complaint is the hit detection. And by hit detection, I mean the game telling you you're being shot. It was bad before, but now it's abysmal. I get "OHK'd" and shot around corners every other death now. I even had an MP7 guy kill me in one shot, from a medium distance, 20 ping. It's just disgusting. It's like I have a 0% chance of saving my own life if someone is potshotting me. Also, I don't know if it's just the overall accuracy decrease, but it seems like suppression is just brutal now. If you've been shot at, good luck hitting anything beyond 10 feet.
But anyway, I feel like the guns are a lot more balanced now. And after some thought, I've decided to abandon the M240 for the M60. It might not be as great, but it has more style. Plus if they fixed the bipod for it, I can't wait to chug chug chug people across the map with my 6x scope. Although I will say that I forgot how murderous the M240 is in close quarters. That thing rips soldiers to shreds. Put on a laser, and I'd rather have that that a shotgun any day.
|
|
|
Post by rudybojangles on Mar 31, 2012 13:20:13 GMT -5
Suppression is intense now, I will agree with DJD. Squad Cover is my go-to perk, as it lets you win one v one gun battles fairly easily.
Playing more with the SCAR-H, it is just nasty with an HBar. I get kills which I should not get, and the hipfire penalty isn't terrible anymore, so I am still competent at close range. Too good.
|
|
|
Post by saddaminsane on Mar 31, 2012 16:24:19 GMT -5
quick question- does below radar really work against stingers? also, does it prevent laser locks?
|
|
tiesieman
True Bro
mental lagger
Posts: 1,401
|
Post by tiesieman on Mar 31, 2012 18:36:47 GMT -5
Overall damage numbers and balance is good so far.
Foregrip was overnerfed, a min spread isn't a bad idea, but it's too much for the little advantage it gives now.
Shotguns need their old max damage for buck and flechette back. Semi autos are much much better though.
I love the new ump45
|
|
|
Post by unforgivenxile on Apr 2, 2012 9:20:42 GMT -5
Did the SKS actually receive a recoil change? The symthic forums didn't say anything about its recoil, only max damage/dropoff end.
|
|
tiesieman
True Bro
mental lagger
Posts: 1,401
|
Post by tiesieman on Apr 2, 2012 10:40:42 GMT -5
Did the SKS actually receive a recoil change? The symthic forums didn't say anything about its recoil, only max damage/dropoff end. I think that's just the flash suppressors -20% vertical recoil. Thing always had low recoil
|
|
|
Post by didjeridu on Apr 2, 2012 15:14:22 GMT -5
The hardest choice ever: continue to go nuts at close range with a silenced SKS, or to slightly extend your pew pew power at mid range with lower recoil and possibly more damage with the FS SKS.
|
|
|
Post by rudybojangles on Apr 2, 2012 17:00:14 GMT -5
The hardest choice ever: continue to go nuts at close range with a silenced SKS, or to slightly extend your pew pew power at mid range with lower recoil and possibly more damage with the FS SKS. Could be wrong here, but I thought that the final numbers for the FS + SKS were that it actually adds to recoil (marginal amount) but reduces spread pretty well. I was pondering whether or not I want to take it off and roll with the laser sight or maybe even the silencer instead. Tried out the SG553+HBar, kills fairly efficiently, not a bad weapon. Waiting to try out the G53 with HBar, or maybe FS. I still need to do more play-testing with everything, I have been trying to stick to one weapon to unlock all of the attachments with every one. I need to stop that
|
|
|
Post by unforgivenxile on Apr 2, 2012 17:37:58 GMT -5
The hardest choice ever: continue to go nuts at close range with a silenced SKS, or to slightly extend your pew pew power at mid range with lower recoil and possibly more damage with the FS SKS. Could be wrong here, but I thought that the final numbers for the FS + SKS were that it actually adds to recoil (marginal amount) but reduces spread pretty well. I was pondering whether or not I want to take it off and roll with the laser sight or maybe even the silencer instead. Tried out the SG553+HBar, kills fairly efficiently, not a bad weapon. Waiting to try out the G53 with HBar, or maybe FS. I still need to do more play-testing with everything, I have been trying to stick to one weapon to unlock all of the attachments with every one. I need to stop that Well the flash suppressor doesnt affect the spread of the SKS at all I dont think. I may be wrong here, but shooting off into the distance with FS equiped and comparing the trajectory to a non FS equiped SKS, there seems to be very little to no difference in accuracy.
|
|
|
Post by didjeridu on Apr 2, 2012 18:24:49 GMT -5
Well, I don't claim to have any dealings in the math, but it's news to me if the FS does next to nothing or adds recoil. That's just terrible. I was more or less excited over the concept of an SKS with slightly less recoil, meaning I could shoot faster at longer distances. Alas, silencer it is then. Still, it's better than before, where the FS made the SKS total crap. If you fired that thing anywhere near the cap, the spread would be everywhere. And with DICE removing the bonus/dev attachments from the B2K weapons, that would mean the SKS is the only "sniper rifle" that can use the FS. That's a good enough niche for me.
Does the SKS have the HBAR now? It did in Beta. I can only imagine the new HBAR on the SKS. It could be an actual sniper weapon then.
|
|
|
Post by unforgivenxile on Apr 3, 2012 2:11:02 GMT -5
No, dont worry the flash suppressor still reduces recoil on the sks (by quite a bit actually), I was refering to how accuate the weapon is in terms of how straight the bullet flies. Usually the flash suppressor makes weapons less accurate, however I didnt notice this attribute when equiped on the sks.
|
|
|
Post by SheWolf on Apr 3, 2012 3:37:48 GMT -5
didn't they get rid of that in the patch? the increased spead i mean.
|
|
mrite
True Bro
Posts: 239
|
Post by mrite on Apr 3, 2012 7:50:27 GMT -5
the did remove the increased spread from the Flash Suppressor, and replaced it with a hip fire penalty, making the Flashlight the only attachment that does not affect hipspread in any way.
this means the SKS is better than ever, as you should be ADS when using it, and the decreased recoil makes accuracy over range easier than ever
|
|
|
Post by rudybojangles on Apr 3, 2012 7:56:35 GMT -5
didn't they get rid of that in the patch? the increased spead i mean. I think before, the hipfire spread penalty was 50%, so definite improvement. Many weapons have recoil multiplier with FS equipped now between .70 and .95; a few weapons have no multiplier and a few have over 1, which would increase recoil. Further, several weapons have a minangle modifier when ADS, which would increased aimed accuracy, like the SKS and the AEK. The SKS, from what I can remember, gets a 25% reduction in ADS spread but an increase in recoil by something like 5-10%. Symthic's text export is currently offline, but I copied down all of the guns which receive a recoil benefit, list below: A91: RecoilMagnitudeMod 1.0 -> 0.75 (Good) AK74M All stances RecoilMagnitudeMod 1.0 -> 0.82 AKS74u RecoilMagnitudeMod 1.0 -> 0.82 AN94 RecoilMagnitudeMod 1.0 -> 0.83 G3A3 All stances RecoilMagnitudeMod 1.0 -> 0.725 (Very Good) G36C All stances RecoilMagnitudeMod 1.0 -> 0.83 HK53 All stances RecoilMagnitudeMod 1.0 -> 0.82 KH2002 All stances RecoilMagnitudeMod 1.0 -> 0.75 (Good) M4A1 All stances RecoilMagnitudeMod 1.0 -> 0.8 M16A4 All stances RecoilMagnitudeMod 1.0 -> 0.8 M27IAR All stances RecoilMagnitudeMod 1.0 -> 0.85 M39EBR All stances RecoilMagnitudeMod 1.0 -> 0.8 M60 All stances RecoilMagnitudeMod 1.0 -> 0.75 (Good) M240 All stances RecoilMagnitudeMod 1.0 -> 0.71 (Very Good) M249 All stances RecoilMagnitudeMod 1.0 -> 0.875 M416 All stances RecoilMagnitudeMod 1.0 -> 0.82 PDW-R All stances RecoilMagnitudeMod 1.0 -> 0.75 (Very Good for PDW) MG36 All stances RecoilMagnitudeMod 1.0 -> 0.85 Mk11 All stances RecoilMagnitudeMod 1.0 -> 0.8 QBB-95 All Stances RecoilMagnitudeMod 1.0 -> 0.865
|
|
tiesieman
True Bro
mental lagger
Posts: 1,401
|
Post by tiesieman on Apr 3, 2012 8:22:48 GMT -5
The SCAR-H is really really good now.
|
|
|
Post by unforgivenxile on Apr 3, 2012 9:33:20 GMT -5
The G3A3 is better. I cant believe how rape that weapon is now, killing in three shots up close is just amazing. Its like the prepatch scar h with slightly better recoil and superiority at range.
|
|
|
Post by rudybojangles on Apr 3, 2012 10:22:50 GMT -5
Does the SKS have the HBAR now? It did in Beta. I can only imagine the new HBAR on the SKS. It could be an actual sniper weapon then. Got my 300 kills, checked in game, nope. Unless it takes more to unlock it. For me, it shows as null/300 for SKS HBar unlock. Would be an awesome gun with HBar for sure.
|
|
|
Post by rudybojangles on Apr 3, 2012 10:25:06 GMT -5
The G3A3 is better. I cant believe how rape that weapon is now, killing in three shots up close is just amazing. Its like the prepatch scar h with slightly better recoil and superiority at range. I still enjoy the SCAR-H more only because of the weapons I have to compare them to: the engi guns. The SCAR-H is leagues above all of them now. I have tried w naked+HBar, I will try it grip+HBar. G3 is undoubtedly excellent as well, but goes against the likes of the M16, KH2K2, AEK, etc.
|
|
tiesieman
True Bro
mental lagger
Posts: 1,401
|
Post by tiesieman on Apr 3, 2012 10:56:30 GMT -5
The G3A3 is better. I cant believe how rape that weapon is now, killing in three shots up close is just amazing. Its like the prepatch scar h with slightly better recoil and superiority at range. I still enjoy the SCAR-H more only because of the weapons I have to compare them to: the engi guns. The SCAR-H is leagues above all of them now. I have tried w naked+HBar, I will try it grip+HBar. G3 is undoubtedly excellent as well, but goes against the likes of the M16, KH2K2, AEK, etc. Exactly. The SCAR is now a good ranged option for the Engi where it used to be only the VAL. Plus it has the style factor
|
|
|
Post by novanleon on Apr 3, 2012 13:41:49 GMT -5
I don't know if this is new in the patch or not, but has anyone noticed how good the PDW-R is at mid-long ranges? I put an ACOG on the PDW-R and I was surprised at how effective I was burst firing at longer ranges; VERY surprising for a PDW. Together with the new Extended Mags, the PDW-R is looking a lot more attractive to me.
|
|
|
Post by rudybojangles on Apr 3, 2012 13:46:43 GMT -5
I don't know if this is new in the patch or not, but has anyone noticed how good the PDW-R is at mid-long ranges? I put an ACOG on the PDW-R and I was surprised at how effective I was burst firing at longer ranges; VERY surprising for a PDW. Together with the new Extended Mags, the PDW-R is looking a lot more attractive to me. Did the extended mags go past 30? If not, it's been the same 30 forever. However, it did get a great damage buff, and the flash suppressor greatly reduces the recoil, so it is definitely a better gun.
|
|
|
Post by rudybojangles on Apr 3, 2012 13:54:23 GMT -5
Correction: got my hands on the most recent patch (post-patch) data, and the SKS does indeed get a 15% reduction (0.85 modifier) to recoil when equipped with a Flash Suppressor. So YAY indeed!
|
|
|
Post by didjeridu on Apr 3, 2012 15:34:08 GMT -5
A question I have is what recoil does the FS decrease? I remember seeing somewhere before that it's supposed to be vertical only, but everything now just says "recoil."
As for the PDW-R, its min damage is now 14.3, making it a mini-Carbine. I still don't like it though. It's okay up close, and I suppose passable at medium range, but it's still crap compared to class guns. Even assuming you're Recon, you have better options for close range, and if you're really worried about medium range, the SKS will do you better. Plus it really only has one attachment, since it's bleh without extended. You might as well just use the VAL if you're fine with 20 rounds; you'll kill and reload much faster, no to mention have a much better looking gun. The PDW-R is just a huge lump of plastic. I imagine it's what a P90 would look like if it gorged itself on Twinkies.
|
|
|
Post by rudybojangles on Apr 3, 2012 15:54:14 GMT -5
The PDW-R is just a huge lump of plastic. I imagine it's what a P90 would look like if it gorged itself on Twinkies. That was really aggressive. A question I have is what recoil does the FS decrease? I remember seeing somewhere before that it's supposed to be vertical only, but everything now just says "recoil." The values I am looking at are titled: RecoilMagnitudeMod and RecoilAngleMod. It could be the case that magnitude only controls upward recoil and angle only controls horizontal recoil. Also, awesome video with muzzle break that makes the gun shoot down!
|
|
mrite
True Bro
Posts: 239
|
Post by mrite on Apr 3, 2012 16:55:56 GMT -5
The PDW-R is just a huge lump of plastic. I imagine it's what a P90 would look like if it gorged itself on Twinkies. That was really aggressive. A question I have is what recoil does the FS decrease? I remember seeing somewhere before that it's supposed to be vertical only, but everything now just says "recoil." The values I am looking at are titled: RecoilMagnitudeMod and RecoilAngleMod. It could be the case that magnitude only controls upward recoil and angle only controls horizontal recoil. Also, awesome video with muzzle break that makes the gun shoot down! i actually sorta want that M14
|
|
|
Post by unforgivenxile on Apr 3, 2012 17:16:06 GMT -5
I havent viewed that link yet but im guessing it is FPSRussia? Just sounds like the sort of thing he would do.
|
|
|
Post by didjeridu on Apr 3, 2012 19:25:50 GMT -5
That's easily the worst looking M14 I've ever seen. Even if it wasn't chrome, it would make my eyes bleed. Nice video though.
|
|
|
Post by rudybojangles on Apr 3, 2012 20:22:14 GMT -5
That's easily the worst looking M14 I've ever seen. Even if it wasn't chrome, it would make my eyes bleed. Nice video though. It is a very flashy versus functional gun, but hey, I love the bullpup on a M14 concept.
|
|