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Post by ecomni on Dec 2, 2009 23:28:07 GMT -5
I love a gripped AUG HBAR, but I can't help but feel it's a semi-worse AR. With SP, that 2-bullet kill at all ranges is great, but I really don't like the mobility hit I take (but I hate that with all LMGs, along with the more conspicuous body types)
Gripped RPD is also still solid, but I think I prefer the accuracy of the AUG to the bigger ammo pool I get with RPD.
I'd like to hear other opinions of the other LMGs and the LMG class in general. I tried to like the L86 but the accuracy just isn't there. And I'm just not a big fan of the 30 damage LMGs, but I still haven't tried out hardcore mode yet, so I'm guessing the M240 or MG4 would be pretty good there.
And I don't know if I'm alone, but I think the flat 10 damage penalty for a "silenced" LMG is way too much. It just doesn't seem right that the M240 takes 5 bullets to kill someone even at point blank range, worse than even the Vector.
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Post by mw0swedeking on Dec 2, 2009 23:41:52 GMT -5
I hate LMGs. I've said it elsewhere. Sorry.
I was gonna leave it at that but i figure I could go into more detail. I hate LMGs and the P90 semi-irrationally. The P90 is from my CoD4 days and I got in and EVERYONE was using them, and I kept getting killed at ranges I thought were cheap. So I have never used the P90. LMGs on the other hand. I also had annoying initial reaction to them. I would turn a corner with my mp5, ak47, or mini-uzi. Later I would use the Skorpion which solved this problem (miss you Skorpion), but I would round a corner and get sprayed down by a LMG. To me LMGs should not be very usable at close range. They can compete handily with SMGs at SMG range which just don't seem right. They can compete with ARs at AR range. They have massive clips, and they shoot through walls very well. They just do too much to seem fair to me. Anyway I did start using them, but got bored because it felt cheap.
So there's my 2 cents. Sorry to hate what you love. :)
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Post by morris on Dec 3, 2009 0:44:03 GMT -5
Honestly I think the AUG and the RPD are the only two worth using. The L86 doesn't have any advantage I can see over the RPD in any area, and in Core mode, the M240 and the MG4 just take too long and too many bullets to kill, and most of the rounds you're throwing are missing. If you want the ammo depth and plan on shooting at a lot of helicopters and such, take the RPD. Otherwise, for just Killin Dudes, I think the AUG is superior.
I wouldn't call the AUG a semi-worse AR either. I'd call it a slower, but more damaging AR with a bigger clip. If you're a more defensive player, don't run a lot, and don't want a tube on your gun, the AUG can do a lot of the same work that the SCAR can, and more effectively.
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Post by johrjives on Dec 3, 2009 3:47:38 GMT -5
The M240 is probably my favorite LMG. It fires insanely fast and has barely any recoil, (not to mention it looks badass). I usually take grip and use the iron sites...they are similar to the m16's. If you have good aim you will take someone down just as fast or faster then the higher damage guns due to the rate of fire and small spread when using stopping power. The major thing that grabbed my interest for this gun was how fast it killed people for being a 30dmg weapon.
The biggest problem with the LMG's is how slow they ADS. Sleight of hand pro is decent but sometimes you might want scavenger or bling for a sight, (its usually in your best interest to take grip + something else). You can get away without grip on the m240 and MG4, (you will notice a difference at range), but you pretty much need it on the other LMG's. I was never a fan of LMG's until MW2, I forced myself to get all attachments except for extended mags on every gun. Doing this, you will "accidentally" find a gun you are comfortable with in places you might not have looked.
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Post by individual on Dec 3, 2009 3:48:41 GMT -5
I love a gripped AUG HBAR, but I can't help but feel it's a semi-worse AR. With SP, that 2-bullet kill at all ranges is great, but I really don't like the mobility hit I take (but I hate that with all LMGs, along with the more conspicuous body types) So, use Lightweight? With lightweight, it's a 3-shot kill at any range... With a big magazine. And about the same as the assault rifles' mobility.
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Post by ecomni on Dec 3, 2009 17:44:49 GMT -5
Well, that's why I say it's a semi-worse AR. You put on lightweight, then it kills in three bullets at all ranges, whereas a SP SCAR/TAR will still kill in two in range and three beyond. The magazine is bigger, sure, but not that much bigger.
With LMGs I always feel like the advantages (bigger ammo pool, constant range) don't really outweigh the disadvantages (low mobility, huge gunfire bloom, conspicuous body type, slow ADS, bad hipfire).
But like I said, that 2-bullet kill at any range with a super-accurate AUG is very nice...
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Post by individual on Dec 3, 2009 19:04:10 GMT -5
I just got finished writing a FAQ on the weapons for myself...
Here's the stuff on the LMGs:
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Post by imrlybord7 on Dec 3, 2009 19:25:54 GMT -5
The M240 wrecks the MG4 in terms of ROF with just a bit more recoil. It is WAY better.
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Post by ssog on Dec 3, 2009 20:27:02 GMT -5
So, use Lightweight? With lightweight, it's a 3-shot kill at any range... With a big magazine. And about the same as the assault rifles' mobility. AUGs without SP make me a sad panda.
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Post by morris on Dec 4, 2009 1:47:03 GMT -5
With LMGs I always feel like the advantages (bigger ammo pool, constant range) don't really outweigh the disadvantages (low mobility, huge gunfire bloom, conspicuous body type, slow ADS, bad hipfire). What you're really saying is that LMGs don't suit your playstyle. LMGs are guns for people who move slowly and play defensively. If mobility, ADS, and hipfire are problems for you, then you're rushing too much to use an LMG effectively.
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Post by individual on Dec 4, 2009 4:29:24 GMT -5
Also for people who don't like to reload, but don't mind waiting a bit when they do have to reload.
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Post by ecomni on Dec 4, 2009 11:22:52 GMT -5
What you're really saying is that LMGs don't suit your playstyle. LMGs are guns for people who move slowly and play defensively. If mobility, ADS, and hipfire are problems for you, then you're rushing too much to use an LMG effectively. Not at all. I play LMGs in every game that has LMGs. I'm very used to them. So much so that it took some time to get used to the AUG (reloading an LMG? Madness!). I make it my business to play slow and defensive (if the map allows it) and have good success. It's just that, going on pure stats, LMGs in general are outdone by SP ARs except for the two areas of long distance and mag capacity. Question for other AUG users. What attachments do you use? I always have grip on, sometimes bling'd with ACOG or Thermal if it's a bigger map. I tried extended mags but it seems like SoH makes that somewhat unnecessary, plus you get a faster ADS to boot. What other setups are people having success with?
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shadz
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Post by shadz on Dec 4, 2009 15:29:36 GMT -5
I've only really used the AUG as it functions very similarly to an AR. SoH, SP and SA really make it an AR, it's only real disadvantage may be mobility which really doesn't affect me as when using an LMG I would not normally rush with it. SoH may ofc also be exchanged for Scavenger (if you're wanting the armmo), Bling, for another coupla' attatchments or whathaveyou.
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Post by ssog on Dec 4, 2009 17:45:28 GMT -5
Not at all. I play LMGs in every game that has LMGs. I'm very used to them. So much so that it took some time to get used to the AUG (reloading an LMG? Madness!). I make it my business to play slow and defensive (if the map allows it) and have good success. It's just that, going on pure stats, LMGs in general are outdone by SP ARs except for the two areas of long distance and mag capacity. Question for other AUG users. What attachments do you use? I always have grip on, sometimes bling'd with ACOG or Thermal if it's a bigger map. I tried extended mags but it seems like SoH makes that somewhat unnecessary, plus you get a faster ADS to boot. What other setups are people having success with? LMGs outclass ARs at medium to long range combat. With a grip, they've got much tighter/more controllable recoil and they do significantly more damage. Recoil-wise, only the ACR and M4 can come close, and those guns both deal 30-20. The TAR and SCAR deal comparable damage, but the recoil is much wilder. If you toss a scope and SP on one, it can even compete with Snipers at the longest of ranges while still maintaining decent medium and short range capabilities. As for my AUG, I like rolling with either a Grip, or else I'll bling a Grip/Thermal for long maps. I'm also a fan of the Silencer or the Grip/Silencer combo. Really, the Grip is possibly the best universally-useful attachment in the entire game, although the HBS and Silencer are both extremely situationally useful.
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Post by morris on Dec 4, 2009 17:53:37 GMT -5
It's just that, going on pure stats, LMGs in general are outdone by SP ARs except for the two areas of long distance and mag capacity. I guess I don't understand why you think mobility and ADS are so important then. If you're using an LMG, and playing in a way that maximizes its strengths and minimizes its weaknesses, then what's the problem? You can't just compare weapons in a vacum and say "well, this gun is statistically superior to this other one, so that's what everybody should use." The statistics only matter when they're applied to how you actually PLAY the game. It doesn't matter how crappy a shotgun's ADS is if you're only ever hipfiring it. It doesn't matter how small a sniper rifle's clip is if you're always killing in one shot, and it doesn't matter how bad the mobility on an LMG is if you're moving slowly anyway to maintain a good defense.
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Post by kcpwnsgman on Dec 5, 2009 7:13:39 GMT -5
I can get alright K/D ratios with the M249, but I always get angry at how many shots it takes to kill someone and how many rounds I waste in the process. it's aggravating, it seems like the RPD and AUG are the only usable LMG's.
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Post by imrlybord7 on Dec 5, 2009 11:34:55 GMT -5
It doesn't matter how small a sniper rifle's clip is if you're always killing in one shot Although I agree with the rest of your argument, I just need to point out that this is an awful example. Magazine size determines how much ammo you can hold and how often you will need to reload.
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Post by cptmacmillan on Dec 5, 2009 20:32:27 GMT -5
kcpwnsgman: I'd say the MG4 is usable as well. It's 30-30, but it doesn't need a grip to stay accurate like the RPD and it has a far bigger magazine and a higher RoF than the AUG HBAR.
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toysrme
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Post by toysrme on Dec 5, 2009 21:13:58 GMT -5
not an LMG fan. movement, reload hip fire & ADS time are just too big a penalties to deal with.
AUG is great with grip, but u might as well take an AR I will admit that I won quite a large number of FFA's in my first prestiege leveling up the M240 and AUG.
honestly see no reason for the L86 & RPD to be in the game. Too inaccurate to be worth anything. MG4 ill entertain an arguement for its accuracy & deny it on the basis that the ACR and M4 are still more accurate with fewer penalties.
for the "LMG HP spray & pray" guys that dont mind going 10-20 every round, try the F2000. I swear the F2000 is an LMG hip fire wannabe cause it jsut aint accurate for anything!
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Post by ssog on Dec 5, 2009 23:17:35 GMT -5
honestly see no reason for the L86 & RPD to be in the game. Too inaccurate to be worth anything. Grip them and they're both as accurate as the SCAR, if not more so.
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Post by mw0swedeking on Dec 6, 2009 1:30:22 GMT -5
yeah the grips are rediculous...
I tried LMGing a little bit tonight, still not too big a fan, but the grip is THE attachment to use with them. I really can never justify using bling, giving up sleight of hand or scavenger or whatever to get a red dot esp. peeves me. Hate when I pick those up.
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Den
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Post by Den on Dec 6, 2009 3:53:00 GMT -5
MG4 + Grip = ACR with 100 round mag
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Post by imrlybord7 on Dec 6, 2009 14:24:28 GMT -5
M240 + Grip is way better.
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Post by ecomni on Dec 7, 2009 17:06:10 GMT -5
I guess I don't understand why you think mobility and ADS are so important then. If you're using an LMG, and playing in a way that maximizes its strengths and minimizes its weaknesses, then what's the problem? Because always playing "the LMG way" isn't feasible all the time. Even in this camp-happy game, there's going to be movement and mid-range encounters. And that's where speed and ADS (my biggest "waaahh, I would've won if I had my SCAR!!" crybaby moments) come in. I guess I want to have my cake and eat it too. At least, LMG vs AR isn't as bad as SMG vs 1887. But enough about that. toysrmeThe L86 isn't that great, but I think gripped RPD is good. Not as accurate as AUG, but the ROF is nice and it's accurate enough to get some (not all) kills in a 2-round burst faster than the AUG. Plus it has a 100-round clip. I tried the M240 w/ grip and SP a bit. Loving the ROF, but not liking the wasted bullets not making the kill come as fast as it should. I might give the super-accurate MG4 a go. The 30-damage LMGs seem to come down to personal preference (although the AUG is still better than both, heh).
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toysrme
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Post by toysrme on Dec 7, 2009 18:26:24 GMT -5
when all the AR's in the game minus the F2k and AK47 can be fired pure auto & down players across the furthest LOF on the largest maps. then ya, LMG's have too much recoil. with a grip, sure you can down players at medium range without letting up. Not going to happen at long range.
<- is not concerned about hitting anyone from short to medium range. in core i want to be able to reach out and touch someone in as rapid a way as possible, which is why the ACR is as close to being IMBA as a console M40(as in it's not imba.... but it's very, very boarderline). If you roll an ACR, there is absolutely nothing that can touch your TTK at range: you've got a leg up on any sniper as soon as you hit him LMG/SMG+2 bad ar's (and tar if you can't manage it) have to burst fire to stay on you = unwinnable fight.
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Post by ssog on Dec 8, 2009 5:06:35 GMT -5
when all the AR's in the game minus the F2k and AK47 can be fired pure auto & down players across the furthest LOF on the largest maps. then ya, LMG's have too much recoil. with a grip, sure you can down players at medium range without letting up. Not going to happen at long range. What are you talking about? I think every gripped LMG has less recoil than the TAR, and most of them are better than the SCAR, too. Heck, a gripped MG4 is essentially an ACR.
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Post by ecomni on Dec 8, 2009 10:19:00 GMT -5
After using gripped MG4.... wow. I feel bad for neglecting this gun. Absolutely no need to shoot in burst at any range. Even without Stopping Power, it's still good because so few bullets miss. Had a good ol' time shooting this with OMA refreshes. I'm thinking the MG4 is better than the M240 because the accuracy is insane.
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Post by ssog on Dec 8, 2009 17:10:25 GMT -5
After using gripped MG4.... wow. I feel bad for neglecting this gun. Absolutely no need to shoot in burst at any range. Even without Stopping Power, it's still good because so few bullets miss. Had a good ol' time shooting this with OMA refreshes. I'm thinking the MG4 is better than the M240 because the accuracy is insane. I've actually given the MG4 a second chance and realized that I was selling it short, too. I'm currently trying to unlock an ACOG for it, because I think that M4/Grip/ACOG might actually be the only gun still usable at very long ranges.
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Post by chyros on Dec 8, 2009 20:40:34 GMT -5
Funny, I just tried the MG4 today with and without grip. I hardly noticed any difference at all with the grip on tbqh. Silencer on it DOES suck, yeah, if you don't have SP on. You won't kill anything that has seen you and 50% of what you engage still manages to kill you before you land all the shots. I think the MG4 is an interesting but temperamental weapon. Personally, I prefer all other MGs over it, but it's not bad.
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toysrme
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Post by toysrme on Dec 8, 2009 21:50:43 GMT -5
i mean what i said. m240 lg86 rpd cant be fired in pure auto at long ranges without bursting, less you just want to trust into lucking into good recoil jumps. AR's CAN be fired full auto at long ranges. none of them have bad recoil. the TAR recoils upwards at a good pace, but it doesn't recoil upwards very far.
MG4 is sweet accurate, i just dont like LMG movement & ADS rates.
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