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Post by Morshu on Jan 13, 2013 14:28:05 GMT -5
Well I've have played this game for quite a a while now and I think I'm going to give my final verdict on it.
What they did right:
Variety between the characters- Characters are different enough in this game to were you feel all of them must be played and thus helps gives the game huge replay value. There are flaws with the skill system as I will get to though.
Humor- No explaination needed.
Graphics- Alot more clearer and colorful the bl1.
Story- Kill Jack!
What I didn't like:
Way orange loot is gotten- This game has far to much incentive for you not to get orange loot, and in order to get orange loot you either need to farm enemies, which is not fun at all, or get one off a friend who duplicates them, which is also no fun at all. The low drop rates were probably intended to make you feel special from the rarity of getting one, but that has been undermined by all the duplicated, and ends up just making it frustrated for anyone who wants to get one legitly. There is also nothing good you can possibly get from none boss enemies, which sucks.
Underwhelming benefits of badass rank- I have a badass rank of around 30,000 and only get around 10% bonuses. Compare that to the 100% or more bonuses that can be gotten much faster in bl1's profiency system. Even worse then the miniscule benefits of badass ranks is how it forces you to even out the benefits through everything rather then specializing in certain stats, which really ruined the whole system. I also much rather badass ranks would of be gotten from a xp like system rather then challanges since challenges end and ruins all the replay value the badass rank could of given.
Overlaping skill benefits between the characters- I would of liked to see more abilities that stat upgrades in the system. Stat skills often overlap between characters and makes then ulitmately feel the same. I like skills such as adding a rocket pod to your turret much more then some 20% gun damage skill. Also, I really wish salvador had a skill for regenerating rockets, even if the regeneration was slow.
Suggestions for BL3-
Go back to more of Bl1s system of getting orange loot, where it was MUCH more common to get oranges for chest, vendors, and common enemies and less about farming certain enemies. I'd also like to see a torgue token like system return. Its alot funnier to collect tokens from various enemies along the way then farm bosses over and over.
Tone done on the "arcady feeling" just a bit- All the lack of seroiusness in this game just makes it feel like a fictional mess. I love the humor but I'd like it to have that borderlands feeling a bit more.
Make the skills "evolve" and have more abilities- I'd like a system where skills get better the farther down you go and provide more ablility skills then just random stat skills everywhere.
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danoski666
True Bro
"He ran off the wall like a ninja!"
Posts: 2,484
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Post by danoski666 on Jan 13, 2013 15:14:52 GMT -5
Super Badass Loot Nomad Brutalizer FTW.
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Post by Morshu on Jan 13, 2013 15:17:17 GMT -5
Which is why when need rocket regeneration. Gearbox really pulled a trollol by not letting salvador or anyone regenerate rockets in any way.
BL2 is much better then BL1 in techincal aspects. The only thing I liked about BL1 more was the loot getting system.
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Post by beavernator on Jan 14, 2013 18:33:31 GMT -5
Underwhelming benefits of badass rank- I have a badass rank of around 30,000 and only get around 10% bonuses. Compare that to the 100% or more bonuses that can be gotten much faster in bl1's profiency system. Even worse then the miniscule benefits of badass ranks is how it forces you to even out the benefits through everything rather then specializing in certain stats, which really ruined the whole system. I also much rather badass ranks would of be gotten from a xp like system rather then challanges since challenges end and ruins all the replay value the badass rank could of given. I can imagine one reason they scrapped the proficiency system; part of maxing out your proficiency in Combat Rifles and SMGs granted a 153% accuracy bonus. Your cone of fire will have 15.6% of its original surface area. Compensation for this was minimal since idle sway was small and vertical, making scoped weapons laser rifles. As a result all gun-wielding enemies tend to have more and more accurate weaponry as they increased in level; since their proficiencies were slowly scaling up. Because of this Mordecai's sniper build lost a lot of its viability in the later game because CRs and SMGs were now able to cover most of the sightlines only a sniper could take advantage of. This loss of a niche makes it clear that the proficiency system was implemented the wrong way, but I still think it to be a potent mechanic. I think the best approach to implementing this idea would have been to just capitalize on one, maybe two minor strengths of a weapon, and have them slowly pile on until 50 is reached. Shotguns could slowly increase in fire rate (2%/prof). Pistols could gradually increase their reload speed (2%), SMGs in hipfire accuracy (1%) and reload speed (1%), Combat Rifles in magazine size (2%), Sniper Rifles in Critical Hit Damage (1%) and Bullet Velocity (2%), and launchers get a straightforward boost in damage (1%). I think the badass rank system is a good thing because it more effectively gives incentives for players to complete the game well after reaching max level. Instead of maxing out proficencies you're now actively completing challenges. As long as I keep completing challenges with any character I get slight permanent bonuses; that works perfectly well for a co-operative game. However, I think it has the same problem the proficiency system had; all-around damage and accuracy boosts. If I melee'd a lot I'd spend tokens on bonus melee, if I'm a crack shot that prefers accurate weapon I'd go for extra critical damage. If I use a lot of elemental weapons I'd invest in elemental weapon bonuses. If I'm an aggressive player I'd make use for shield/health bonuses. If I use a lot of high-RoF weapons I'll want faster fire rates and recoil reduction. However, bonus damage and spread reduction applies to all weapon-types and play-styles; there is no reason to <i>not</i> prioritize that over everything else. That being said I think it's best to make damage and accuracy boosts situational. Maybe a perk that increases accuracy when crouched could work. Increased critical hit damage is also an ideal way to go about this.
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Post by Morshu on Jan 20, 2013 16:02:36 GMT -5
I think what is ruining this game the most for me is the bee. Its too powerful not to use and is a must for raid bosses, but using it dictates what you use, and not just your shield. There is little reason in using torgue weapons and absolutely no reason to use a jakobs weapon. All the nerf did was make shotguns now useless and be replaced by the shredifier, infinty pistol, hellfire and maybe a nukem for fight for your life . Kinda ironic a game with a bazillion guns has come down to three or four weapons.
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Post by beavernator on Jan 20, 2013 18:50:15 GMT -5
I don't think the Bee shield should be compensated for with a reduction in capacity and a high recharge delay. Reducing the amp damage won't solve much, either. Preventing shotguns from dealing amp damage on each pellet will only make Hyperion shotguns more useful with their high fire rates. I say the best approach to nerfing the Bee would have been in placing a cool-down time on the amp damage dealt. Even a 1-second cool down time would work so that high RoF weapons don't exploit what was supposed to be a shield that favours players that go for long-range engagements. As for overall weapon balancing, it's at least slightly better than Borderlands 1 now that Maliwan isn't the say-all-end-all manufacturer. Torgue weapons are actually great since they deal roughly twice the damage their stats indicate. On impact they deal their normal bullet damage, but then they also deal splash damage on top of that. (Source: borderlands.wikia.com/wiki/Explosive) Jakobs weapons in general certainly need a buff, and I'd go as far to say that Maliwan and Bandit weapons aren't that effective, either.
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Post by Morshu on Jan 20, 2013 18:57:24 GMT -5
Even a 1-second cool down time would work so that high RoF weapons don't exploit what was supposed to be a shield that favours players that go for long-range engagements. I think you nailed how to fix the bee problem. Bandit/jakobs definately do need a buff. Maliwan weapons seem fine though.
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Post by beavernator on Jan 21, 2013 0:10:45 GMT -5
Even a 1-second cool down time would work so that high RoF weapons don't exploit what was supposed to be a shield that favours players that go for long-range engagements. I think you nailed how to fix the bee problem. Bandit/jakobs definately do need a buff. Maliwan weapons seem fine though. Come to think of it Jakobs snipers are pretty good weapons, it's just their rifles and shotguns that seem kind of useless. Their aesthetic doesn't really help, either. Bandit weapons in general are stunted by wider bullet spreads AND stunted fire rates across the board, which is definitely not worth a massive magazine. S&S in BL1 was perfectly fine with the stunted fire rate alone. My main concern for Maliwan is their pistols. The only Maliwan pistol I've ever used in this game is the one you have to use when testing out Marcus' elemental weapons. I'm not really bothered by how they eat two rounds per trigger pull for one projectile, but the magazine size is just abysmal. 5 rounds? 7 rounds? That doesn't sound like a weapon worth using. Or maybe their quick reload speeds and ongoing elemental damage make up for that; I should probably look into that.
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Post by Morshu on Jan 21, 2013 13:55:18 GMT -5
Honestly my only real problem is that they pretty much removed the possibility of making launchers a primary weapon, which sucks because they were really unique. Now they're pretty much rare grenades. Actually you can use them as primaries. All you have to do is get an absorb shield (preferably the sham from the BNK-3KR) and an gun that fires explosive rounds (preferably the Logan's gun for Wilhelm) and just shoot yourself with them. Infinite rockets!
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Post by beavernator on Jan 22, 2013 18:51:56 GMT -5
-Playing random lobbies in Borderlands 2 -End up finding someone hosting our 2-man lobby; we were going to fight Master Gee the Invincible. -Two more people join in the meantime. -Entire Party Killed except for the host, who ends up killing Gee in the end as we all go down from all the acidic worm blood spreading out and killing us in our own spawn located a long ways away from the arena's outside. -All Gee drops is a blue weapon and a bunch of mediocre loot on top of 7 seraph crystals. -Thanks, Obama. -Eventually we go out and end up spawning 2 Vermivorous the Invincibles at once accompanied by many badass varkids and super badass varkids -In the end we somehow get dozens of legendary drops from the Vermis. Literally, dozens. -Alright, that's pretty fishy... then again this Hyperion Botch is a very nice weapon. -Head over to The Warrior's Vault -He drops dozens of legendary guns on the first attempt too. -Jump height suddenly increased to 10x its normal height; movement speed significantly increased as well. -I suddenly have $10M, 999 Seraph Crystals, and 999 Torgue Tokens (I don't even own Mr Torgue's DLC) -Go back to sanctuary bunny hopping all the way -Walk to centre of town square -Noticed a few Black-rarity weapons on the ground that fired 27 projectiles apiece, had 100 accuracy, and dealt 60k damage. Nobody picks them up. -Start randomly opening a few boxes around town for ammo. -End up with 3 Infinity pistols and 2 Desert Hornet pistols. Leave out of boredom.
And that was the most fun I ever had in any Borderlands game which I owe to this modder. He literally saved me hundreds of hours of potential loot grinding that I was never willing to go through in the first place. Good on him.
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Post by Morshu on Jan 28, 2013 13:14:48 GMT -5
You hacka.
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Post by beavernator on Jan 28, 2013 16:03:31 GMT -5
Doesn't matter got guns.
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danoski666
True Bro
"He ran off the wall like a ninja!"
Posts: 2,484
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Post by danoski666 on Jan 28, 2013 16:09:54 GMT -5
Who the friggin hell would want to farm bosses for hours to get loot?
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Post by MastaQ on Jan 28, 2013 21:49:00 GMT -5
Who the friggin hell would want to farm bosses for hours to get loot? It's pretty much the only thing to do in the game after you've done everything. Except challenges, but I found those boring...
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Post by beavernator on Feb 3, 2013 1:47:06 GMT -5
Whelp, it happened again. I was in Sanctuary, and the host said he was going to do the "Slot Machine Glitch". Lo and behold a few seconds later every pull of the lever made the machine spit out a legendary weapon, and I walked off with several dozen legendary guns. When the session was finally over, I figured I'd learn about this glitch. It only took a few seconds to initiate; how hard can it be? After searching up a bunch of entries for "Slot Machine Glitch" on YouTube after the major November Patch... everyone who was doing the glitch was very hesitant to say how they did it.
Video 1: "Message me in private; I'll only show the glitch to my real subscribers." Video 2/3: "Here's the glitch in action; look at all these guns we got!" Video 4/5: *shows a pile of orange guns on the floor* Video 6: *Guy with 99999 shield integrity and 400k health doing 'the glitch'.* [Description]: Download this link to get all the legendary guns you want! [suspicious link]
Based on that I have concluded that there is no such thing as the slot machine glitch. It's just a hack that can easily be disguised as a glitch.
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Post by beavernator on Feb 9, 2013 18:24:41 GMT -5
Okay, who said the Gunzerker was bad? This guy tears everything up if you use the right weapons!
-No snipers; not even those full-auto Vladof ones. -No launchers either; you're better off dual-wielding torgue weapons instead. -Stay away from Jakobs weapons or Dahl Pistols. Wielding a semi-auto weapon and a full-auto weapon will mess with your head. Two semi-weapons can work, but that's generally advised against in the later levels. -In fact stay away from Dahl weapons in general. Despite having accurate hip-fire Dahl SMGs have terrible DPS. -Vladof pistols and Hyperion weapons in general are great for picking off long-range targets while gunzerking. -Shotguns are actually viable now that you can dual-wield them. -Bandit weapons are somewhat viable since their lower damage and higher recoil are outweighed by their morbidly large magazines. -Everything else is 'meh' and probably can't hipfire very well.
I haven't tested this guy out in true vault-hunter mode yet, but this guy is a very fun character out of the default 4. While Maya, Axton, and Zer0 have ways to take off the pressure of having too many enemies on them, Salvador's skill proves extremely useful in just outright slaughtering things before they can get his shields down; I like him.
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tooros
True Bro
Pony Stark
Posts: 1,306
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Post by tooros on Feb 23, 2013 13:34:32 GMT -5
On pt 2.5 with maya the siren so I started another save with zer0 the assassin and, just for a laugh, I'm going all out melee. Fun as hell.
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Post by beavernator on Feb 25, 2013 19:24:49 GMT -5
Neat
I just learned that on the PC version of this game you can clone weapons. Just go into your save files, copy the save file of the character you want, and send over some guns to your other accounts before deleting it. This is especially useful if you're a gunzerker and want two of the same weapon. Keep in mind that you'll also get a lot of badass ranks from doing this because the system recognizes that your "new" character has all these challenges completed.
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Post by beavernator on Mar 24, 2013 20:50:43 GMT -5
Alright. I leveled up all 4 default characters to level 50 (Except Zer0 which I'll explain later). Here's how all 4 characters pan out: From most powerful to least powerful: Salvador Maya Axton Zer0
The thing about Salvador is that his combat effectiveness is solely dependent on the guns he's using. He can be the best or worst character in the game depending on how good your guns are. I managed to get my hands on a Conference Call that fired 7 pellets before cloning it, and at level 50 was able to drop The Warrior in 3 volleys while gunzerking. I roll with the Titan class mod and mostly invest in the Rampage skill tree. Sometimes I use the Hoarder class mod when using SMGs and CRs.
Maya is similar to Salvador in that she's only as good as the weaponry she wields. Her only weaknesses are the enemies she can't phase-lock. I found a lot of success sticking to one fire, shock, acid, and an explosive weapon (or a shotgun), having a Matriarch or Cat class mod, and not investing anything past tier 1 of the Elemental skill tree and tier 3 of the Harmony skill tree.
Axton is by far the most consistent character, and definitely the best choice for beginners. Because of his turret he can have nothing but white weapons and still kick ass. I was pretty turned off by how nerfed his Heavy Gunner build was compared to Roland's, then again 288% magazine size and +65% fire rate on all weapons was a little OP and a lotta fun in BL1. I heavily invested in Axton's Gunpowder and Guerilla skill tree since they were packed with good skills, but didn't go past tier 1 of his Survival skill tree. I usually go for the Veteran class mod in solo play and the Gunner mod in co-op.
Zer0's sniper build is terrible. If the enemy doesn't have any sort of critical hit spot exposed (i.e. shield nomads) Zer0 gets hard-countered by that enemy. If the enemy is highly mobile (i.e. buzzards) he doesn't have much of an answer to that either. Throw on the extra ping from co-op multiplayer and now you'll miss a lot of headshots because the internet felt like it. I found his Cunning skill tree to be very scattered, and his bloodshed tree doesn't really seem to work that well against bigger characters. I honestly think Maya is better off sniping; at least she can freeze enemies and get easy headshots.
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Post by Morshu on Mar 25, 2013 12:03:21 GMT -5
Krieg the psycho looks fun. Hopefully he'll be what the gunzerker should of been.
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Usagi
True Bro
Grin and Barrett
Posts: 1,674
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Post by Usagi on Mar 25, 2013 12:50:10 GMT -5
Krieg is a stupid-ass name. Looking forward to playing him anyway because I miss Brick so much. If he's anywhere near as ridiculous as Gaige then he should be very lulzy.
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Dumien
True Bro
Black Market Trader
No engrams. Only disappointment.
Posts: 3,292
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Post by Dumien on Mar 25, 2013 13:22:13 GMT -5
I stated this in another thread, but I figured I would post it here. Tiny Tina has a webshow. The character Tiny Tina was written by her brother specifically for her. The girl is a comedy timing genius and the brother just so happens to be a writing genius as well. www.youtube.com/user/HAWPOfficial?feature=watch
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Post by beavernator on Mar 25, 2013 14:46:36 GMT -5
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Post by beavernator on Mar 28, 2013 2:15:05 GMT -5
What the... Really, mod community? Really?
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Post by kirbyderby on Mar 28, 2013 7:29:47 GMT -5
lol it looks like a butthole
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Post by beavernator on Mar 28, 2013 12:37:39 GMT -5
Honestly it looks like someone stuffed a lime into...
...
Ohhh... I should probably delete that.
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Post by beavernator on Apr 15, 2013 9:46:40 GMT -5
Come to think of it, the accuracy stat would be a lot more comprehensible if it was changed to [100 / (100-A)]. It's not like we'll ever see a gun with 100 accuracy.
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Post by beavernator on Apr 19, 2013 15:04:48 GMT -5
You know, if Borderlands 1 had anything special about their weapons that Borderlands 2 didn't have in theirs, it's that a lot of manufacturers potentially had this say-all end-all weapon. A weapon that had high damage, high fire rate, generous magazine size, AND high accuracy all in one package for any weapon type. It's hard to find that gun in Borderlands 2 now that the algorithm is more restrictive. I think if there was ever a Borderlands 3 it would be pretty neat if blue/purple rarity weapons were manufactured by two different companies; weapons that take the best traits of two manufacturers in one gun. Before I go on, yes, I know that the manufacturer of a weapon only accounts for the body of the gun, and that there are several weapon parts that can come from various manufacturers to slightly alter the performance of the weapon. While this adds more weapon variety... it's not a lot. I'd rather see something like a Vladof/Bandit shotgun, which means it has double the magazine size and twice the rate of fire for an overall kickass weapon. Maybe Legendary weapons can have 3 manufacturers built into one; a Dahl/Jakobs/Torgue Combat Rifle out there can fire in bursts, have a very short time between bursts, have higher critical hit damage, and then fire explosive rounds. That sort of thing.
As for the weapon manufacturers in Borderlands 3, I would make the following suggestions: -IMO Bandit should be re-focused as a manufacturer for weapons that fire multiple projectiles with every pull of the trigger... shotguns fire extra projectiles. -THEN bring back S&S in all their yellow-and-black extended mag glory. -I liked the simple concept behind how Hyperion weapons became more accurate as the user held down the trigger, THAT took me by surprise since it was never done before. What I don't like about Hyperion in BL2 is how a manufacturer of precision weaponry has so much initial idle sway in their guns. I would probably redesign these guns so that their recoil became more narrow as the magazine depleted. I think Hyperion shotguns feel like weapons from Vladof more than any other company; next time around I'd just get Hyperion shotguns to fire Slugs instead. -Dahl weapons could have been crazier. Most pistols fired in bursts of 2, CRs and SMGs 3, and it got boring very fast. It would be nice if Dahl weapons were randomly set to fire in bursts of 2-5. That, or rarer Dahl weapons can fire more shots in each burst. I would also prefer it if these weapons remained burst-fired weapons when shot from the hip. -Tediore weapons were pretty useless in BL1 because they sacrificed too much of their firepower for faster reloads. I like the innovation that went behind them in Borderlands 2. In fact I had this dream where I was using an LSAT in Black Ops 1 on Launch, I threw the LSAT on the ground a few meters away. It exploded before I woke up from the dream. Back on topic I find it a little annoying that it's a viable strategy to fire one bullet in the gun before throwing the weapon away as a make-shift launcher, but either way I can't really complain since you're burning through ammo. If these weapons were to change at all they would be reloaded quickly/normally. However, if you empty your entire magazine you get to throw it away for a large explosion. -Jakobs weaponry used to be the best weapon manufacturer in the early levels of BL1, but then it slowly became the worst manufacturer by the time you were level 40. That's no longer the case in BL2. Now the shotguns are useless at every level (The Vladof of the shotgun category), the pistols/sniper rifles are kickass, and the CRs are lacking because high crits are easily stunted by low overall accuracy. If I could change anything about these weapons, I would take away most (if not all) of the spread and idle sway on these weapons to make better use of the higher critical hit multiplier. -IF Atlas ever came back, I would imagine these guns would either replace E-tech weapons, be accurate laser weapons, be laser weapons with projectiles that eventually dissipate after travelling a set distance, and/or be a manufacturer that makes weapons similar to the Destroyer from Borderlands 1. Small magazine, high fire rate/accuracy, but one trigger pull causes the weapon to fire all the bullets in its magazine until reloaded. There's a lot of room for new 'ideals' for new manufacturers.
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Post by beavernator on Apr 19, 2013 17:32:32 GMT -5
That's right, I'm talking to myself; and I don't even care.
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Post by beavernator on Apr 19, 2013 18:44:59 GMT -5
I'm just really drawn to the concept of randomly generated weapons since no other game does that. Forget about customization, throw me a bunch of guns and I'll pick out a few to go to target practice with. Granted this game can get stale pretty quickly; I really don't like how you have to play through the campaign twice to get to maximum level; 3 times with the latest DLC. There's a load of flaws in this game like every other game in the world. I'm just hanging around to shoot stuff in the face, and this game offers a lot of that.
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