Halo 4 Mini Rant

[Broadband]

I'd like to know what was going through 343 Industries' heads when they decided to do away with skill based matchmaking? Or allowing players to join session? How about the severe lack of game modes? I want Lone Wolves! And while we're at it, the in-game menus look like crap.

Instant respawn just ruins the game for me, and needs to GTFO. That's all that needs to be said. And killcams too. Not because they're "CoD-ish," but because instant respawning ruins the game completely, and the killcams are never accurate and are infuriating to watch (it's always cute to see a guy fire his DMR 20 feet to your left and killing your ass).

The BR is basically obsolete in the face of the DMR. That Foxtrotting thing can kill you super easily at all ranges without being aimed down. Ordnance drops are stupid. Instead of fighting for the power weapons, why not have them drop down from the heavens to your feet? Genius!

Loadouts have no place in Halo. Not at all. Speaking of things that don't have a place in Halo, Armor Abilities need to go. Jetpacks break the game. A Jetpack user can strafe much easier than a player on the ground. He can also get to certain spots on the map much easier, thus ruining the flow of certain maps. Promethean Vision is a gamebreaker, plain and simple. It's simply wallhax and is overpowered as hell. A tool to expose campers? No... it enhances tactical loitering. I came across a team of 4 in Infinity Slayer, tactical loitering on the rooftops in Complex. They were all abusing Promethean Vision with power weapons. Obviously, my teammates and I stood no chance. Oh yeah, I should add I was randomly put in this match when my team was losing by 400 points, AND we had one less person on our team (3 v 4). To add insult to injury, the host sucked ass, and I was lagging like hell. Support Upgrades & Tactical Packages are stupid too. They're basically perks, which have NO place in Halo.

Long story short, the MP blows.

[wittyscorpion]

Broadband:

On Halo waypoint forum all of these have been debated :-). I really enjoy the game though and let me share my perspective and see if it helps.

Issue #1: do away with skilled based matchmaking

343i claims that the matchmaking is skill based, and it seems OK to me based on my experience. Keep in mind that the game is still not out of its launch week yet, lots of players are still very volatile on their performance level. For example: I have been getting my ass kicked and have negative KDR games until last night.

Issue #2: allow join in progress

Nobody likes to be thrown into an ongoing game. However, nobody wants to play Halo with less people on their team either when somebody quits. IMHO Allow join in progress will improve the overall experience.

Issue #3: lack of game modes

What we have so far are the launch game modes and they will change over time. Below is what 343i stated in this week's bulletin:

"'Halo 4 Matchmaking updates will occur on a more frequent basis than what you’re accustomed to with Reach. Instead of monthly updates, we will be providing weekly updates, with the goal being to provide fresh content on a regular basis. We will maintain a static set of playlists and feature one or two “rotational” playlists on top of that. We will be monitoring trends and statistics closely so we can react accordingly to your preferences and likes. For instance, if one of our rotational playlists consistently holds a higher population than one of our static playlists, we will consider swapping them out based on player demand. The process will be fluid and based on numbers, and we’re extremely excited about the benefits of our new approach. "

So expect to see game modes to appear in and out of the "rotation list" on weekly basis.

Issue #4: lone Wolves

Regicide is not acceptable to you as an FFA game mode? I like it better than vanilla FFA. The game is intentionally kept very close until the end, adding suspense to the excitement. It is not designed to be competitive, but definitely fun.

Issue #4: DMR > BR, and DMR is powerful.

Yes. But is this really a big deal? In the past Halo we only have one or the other. Also, I really dig the LR. That weapon is sexy.

Issue #5: ordinance drops

I really like this because it gives me more chances to play with power weapons. If you don't like it, you can play Team Slayer pro, which gives you the classic Halo experience.

Issue #6: loadouts and AAs

I really like these as well :-) Again, if you don't like them, you can play Team Slayer pro

[wittyscorpion]

Alright, now it is my turn for a mini rant, and it is much shorter :-)

1) Need more maps

Each playlist only has 4-5 maps. Need more to keep the players engaged. Besides the 9 maps planned for DLC, hopefully they'll add more forge maps as well.

2) What's up with putting Ragnarok into CTF? Talking about camp fests. For teams wanting to win against teams only wanting to kill, it is very frustrating. You die a lot trying to break their heavy defense and after respawn you have to run a long distance to get to the battle front.

[Z3R0FLAME]

Nov 10, 2012 9:04:54 GMT -5 wittyscorpion said:

Issue #1: do away with skilled based matchmaking

343i claims that the matchmaking is skill based, and it seems OK to me based on my experience. Keep in mind that the game is still not out of its launch week yet, lots of players are still very volatile on their performance level. For example: I have been getting my ass kicked and have negative KDR games until last night.

Unlike Call of Duty, Halo is just the kind of game where teamwork and environmental assessment is the limiting factor behind players. I found myself pulling a positive K/D every match, but I'm sure it'll even out later on and return to what I stated above.

Nov 10, 2012 9:04:54 GMT -5 wittyscorpion said:

Issue #2: allow join in progress

Nobody likes to be thrown into an ongoing game. However, nobody wants to play Halo with less people on their team either when somebody quits. IMHO Allow join in progress will improve the overall experience.

At least when I'm playing, 80% of the ragequitters dashboard once the teams have been arranged in the pregame lobby. Since the server stops the game to add players, it's only a minor inconvenience when you're joined into a match that's maybe max 50 points in.

I agree with what you said about the gametypes and lone-wolfing to a tee. No need to requote that.

Nov 10, 2012 9:04:54 GMT -5 wittyscorpion said:

Issue #4: DMR > BR, and DMR is powerful.

Yes. But is this really a big deal? In the past Halo we only have one or the other. Also, I really dig the LR. That weapon is sexy.

After testing the TTKs on the BR and DMR,it might appear as though they messed up on these factors (DMR wins by a long shot in Body kills and a little less with the final HS). However, I think that with the burst fire feature compensating for a misaligned hitbox due to lag, and more flinch per burst than the DMR, it's more balanced than one might think.What they need to do is make the DMR flinch a heck of a lot more (almost sniper flinch) so that it's balanced at closer ranges.

The last two things he/you said I agree with as well. Ordinance and class specialization have added a more role-playing feature into MP than was in previous games.

[Broadband]

@ wittyscorpion:

Issue #1: This is a load of crap. I have been in games where there were players of varying skill level. In a game not too long ago, I had a guy on my team go 0-12, while everyone on the enemy team was positive.

Issue #2: No, just no. It does nothing to improve the experience. Not a lot of people left in-game in Halo 3, because of the loss of XP if you rage quit.

Issue #3: Halo 3 and even Reach offered more at launch.

Issue #4: No, Regicide is not an acceptable substitute for Lone Wolves or even Rumble Pit.

Issue #5: Um, yeah it is? It's an obvious case of weapon imbalance. The BR really needs precise aiming, while the DMR does not.

Issue #6: The requirement for ordnance drops is too easy, and overall it is just stupid and doesn't belong in Halo.

Issue #7: Why do you like them? And why should I have to play a game mode with not too many people just because these developers like to add unnecessary doo-doo to Halo?

And to the guy above me, no they do not add to any role playing in Halo because certain things in each slot shine above the rest (e.g. DMR, Promethean Vision). Not to mention none of that belongs in Halo. It would be like if in CoD suddenly players had much more health and you could jump really high. CoD wouldn't be CoD, and Halo 4 is not Halo because they added elements from other games that quite frankly do not belong and don't make the experience any more fun.

[aidsaidsaids]

Your complaining is premature (as usual). Trueskill rankings take time to stabilize; it's entirely possible that there is skill based matchmaking and everyone is too new to have a representative record. Try again at Xmas, Broadband.

[Broadband]

No, there isn't. It's the same ranking system as Reach. 343 said they might implement a skill based playlist in a future update, but until then we're stuck with the same BS ranking system that's in Reach.

Premature? Perhaps. But unless they dramatically overhaul Halo 4, my complaints will remain valid for the foreseeable future. Halo 4 is crap, deal with it.

[danoski666]

There's nothing quite as good as proclaiming your opinion is the only correct option.

[Broadband]

Nov 10, 2012 17:18:23 GMT -5 danoski666 said:

There's nothing quite as good as proclaiming your opinion is the only correct option.

I'm not proclaiming anything other than my opinion that Halo 4 in its current state is a steaming pile of crap. Some people like crap, and that's okay. However, don't expect me to not defend my opinion in a thread I made.

[danoski666]

"Halo 4 is crap, deal with it" sounded a lot more like a statement then an opinion.

[aidsaidsaids]

We know you hate everything Broadband, it's ok. I don't even have the game, I'm just making sure you know that it's too early for skill based matchmaking to even work properly yet. If you had more realistic expectations, you might find yourself disappointed less often.

Just saying

[Broadband]

Well okay, let's say I give 343 the benefit of the doubt and expect there to be skill based matchmaking in the near future. What about the myriad of other shit in Halo 4, like Promethean Vision, CoD-esque perks, OP DMR and semi-OP AR?

[aidsaidsaids]

From what I've seen none of it looks that bad to be honest. I used the shit out of EV in Shadowrun (which is where the idea for PV came from almost certainly), good fun. The guns you think are OP aren't, sorry. You're just suffering from a common delusion that good = OP.

[exaltedvanguard]

There is DEFINITELY skill-based matchmaking.

It's just very volatile at the moment while everyone's spreading out and finding their place.

I'll just come out and say that I've always been a very good Halo player. Just have. So when the game comes out (and I'm a hidden level 1), I was stomping on absolutely everyone I played. After pub-stomping for a night, I'm find myself playing against very obviously organized (and skilled) players. Players who are always trying to teamshot, run to cover and have their buddy come out and finish you off simultaneously. The type of stuff you see all the time at high-level play. And now all my games are against guys like this.

I'm actually having to put in good old fashioned effort to win! If there isn't a skill system being used, why have I gone from stomping every game to facing organized team-shotting opponents all the time?

Just don't worry about skill-based matchmaking right now. The game's been out a week. People will find their place eventually.

And you know what? Even when they do, you'll still have the occasional teammate who sucks horribly. Very few players can play at a consistent level all the time. Those who can are generally among the best, since they can consistently identify their weaknesses and improve. Just cause someone's having bad (downright terrible) game doesn't mean they're not ranked where they're supposed to be. It's just a bad game.

Heck, it might not even be the same person playing.

-----

I'd also like to state that I HATE the mid-game join/leave "feature." So many games are determined by the first 90 seconds of the game. It feels like half the time it's, "To play in this playlist, you must first lose one game."

I'd like to see League of Legend's quit mechanic brought to Halo. You can quit. But you have to either rejoin that game or wait till it's over. Get dropped by your bad connection? Just rejoin! People can no longer hide behind the, "Don't punish me for quitting, I just lag out a lot," excuse. True quitters have to sit in timeout till the game's over. People who D/C can jump back into the action. Everyone wins.

I'll also agree with OP by saying that the menus are clunky. Not ugly. Just clunky. I'll be looking at my new armor, and suddenly I hear the game counting down to start. Huh? I never got to vote! I didn't even know it was time to vote!

[Broadband]

Yeah, there really needs to be punishment for rage quitting like in Halo 3. Joining in session needs to GTFO - no ifs ands or buts, it just needs to GTFO.

I don't know what was so hard about keeping the menu's appearance like it was in Halo 2 - Reach. Change just for the sake of change is stupid. Just like how one day in 2009, Pepsi decided to change their logo for no good reason. Bottom line, if it's not broken, don't fix it for Foxtrot's sake.

Nov 11, 2012 23:14:42 GMT -5 exaltedvanguard said:

I'm actually having to put in good old fashioned effort to win! If there isn't a skill system being used, why have I gone from stomping every game to facing organized team-shotting opponents all the time?

It's all over the place for me. I go from laying waste to the enemy to barely going positive. I get matched up with ding dongs when we're up against a very skilled, organized group of players.

[MastaQ]

The UI is a step back from previous Halos, for sure. IMO, the pinnacle of UI in Halo games was Halo 3.

[eLantern]

Issue #1: Skilled based matchmaking

Calm down, skill based matchmaking is there. Plus, come next year you will be able to actually visually see your playlist skill ranks via Halo Waypoint.

Issue #2: Join-in-progress

Join-in-progress is necessary. It's a big reason why Halo 3 and Halo Reach can't compete with many of the other FPS games nowadays for online usage time. Nobody likes to waste their time in completely unbalanced games and the Non-join-in-progress matchmaking systems have a history of creating more of that. However, could Halo 4's matchmaking system use some more refinement... yes it could. Personally, I don't think games should start until there are evenly (number wise) matched teams.

Issue #3: Lack of game modes

More are coming... again calm down.

Issue #4: Lone Wolves

Regicide is fine for now. FFA games types (Lone Wolves / Rumble Pit) are too chaotic of playlists in general if what you're seeking is a method to prove a player's solo combat skill.

Issue #5: In-game menus

I would appreciate some additional sound effects to alert players to locating a game and when additional friends join into your party, but in general I think the only thing wrong with the in-game menus is that people are just not use to them yet. Give it time, they aren't so bad as being worth ranting over.

Issue #6: Instant respawn

Instant respawn doesn't ruin Halo. Can it be occasionally annoying, sure, but I think it was also just as annoying when you were stuck having to wait for your own respawn in past Halo games. It certainly doesn't need to GTFO of Halo as you suggest.

Issue #7: Kill cams

If the kill cams are so infuriating to watch don't watch them... gezz, how butt hurt get you get over nothing? Personally, I never watch a kill cam unless I'm truly baffled as to where I was killed from or how. Honestly, I'd love to see final Kill cams incorporated into all of the game types as I think they're incredibly entertaining to watch at the end of the match.

Issue #8: DMR > BR, and DMR is powerful.

I still see this as a dependence thing. In general the DMR seems much more effective because it's more useful at greater ranges, but the BR is nasty for the medium ranges where zoom is still greatly useful in that the 3-round burst's ability to delay a DMR's re-centering typically gives it the advantage, plus the BR's hip firing at ranges closer then medium are equally as good as the DMR if not a little better considering the greater chance of landing that final headshot. Honestly, I think people just like to b*tch about their favorite weapons not completely outclassing others.

Issue #9: Ordinance Drops

If you don't like Ordinance Drops go play Slayer PRO. I personally like them a lot and I'm sure there are many who agree with me. It truly was pretty ingenious of 343i.

Issue #10: Loadouts and AAs

I wasn't a fan of the method Reach introduced Loadouts and AAs to Halo, but I think Halo 4 has done a fantastic job in addressing a lot of the previous issues associated with them. Each AA, minus arguably Thruster Pack, serve to greatly assist a player in some fashion, but in regards to the Thruster Pack, even it can see some real use in the Flood gametype.

Issue #11: Bad game experiences

Granted there will be annoyingly bad experiences, it's going to be unavoidable. However, if you're put into a game where you are down by 400 points and you're not good enough to overcome the opposition, just leave the game and find another. If you're not the type to quit then stick it out knowing you're probably not going to win, but strategize a method to flush them out of their area... I recommend creating different Loadouts for different strategies. The Holographic and Active Camo AAs can be pretty useful. Overall, don't forget you can control how annoyed you will ultimately be by the game... heck if you hate it so much, don't play it.

Issue #12: Tactical Packages & Support Upgrades

These are not stupid just because you have convinced yourself what defines Halo. BTW, who are you to determine what Halo is, isn't? Again, if you hate the game so much, keep playing Halo 3 or other games... I'm sure if there are enough people like you then the message will eventually get across to the developers and if not, have fun playing whatever else you'll be playing.

[mw2baller]

PV and AC are the best AAs hands down.

[wittyscorpion]

Nov 12, 2012 21:38:08 GMT -5 mw2baller said:

PV and AC are the best AAs hands down.

JP is very powerful as well.

Offensive:

1) Gain angle on enemy behind low cover;
2) Move to overwatch spots faster;
3) Confuse enemies on radar with rapid elevation changes;

Defensive:

1) Escape nade (jump and JP away) and vehicles;
2) Remove angle from enemy;

[exaltedvanguard]

Jetpacks still good, but not nearly as good as Reach. The game's too fast now. If you float high for an angle over cover, you'll be dead before you can fall to ground.

Still very powerful, but I would place it a little below AC/PV.

[wittyscorpion]

I have been using JP for my most try hard class, and really liked it.

However, armed with new knowledge about how powerful AC and LR are, as well as best way to use Plasma Pistol, I now can't wait to try this class the next time I play:

Primary: LR
Secondary: PP
Grenade: Plasma
AA: AC
Tactical Package: AA efficiency
Support upgrade: Dexterity

This feels like a solid loudout all around.

Long range: scoped LR with 3x zoom, 4SK beats any other primary
Mid range: 4SK with 1 scoped shot + 2 hip fire + 1 headshot
Close range: 4 PP shot to deplete shield, quickly switch to LR with dexterity for the kill
Anti-vehicle: 1 PP super charge followed by a plasma grenade
Stealth play with AC: assassination, stick, and super charge PP + melee are great ways to kill enemies walking by when I am invisible.

[eLantern]

^ (Witty)
I created nearly that exact class yesterday.

Only difference was I put Ordinance Priority over Dexterity, so that I could attain power weapons quicker and more often.

[wittyscorpion]

Nov 13, 2012 14:33:06 GMT -5 eLantern said:

^ (Witty)
I created nearly that exact class yesterday.

Only difference was I put Ordinance Priority over Dexterity, so that I could attain power weapons quicker and more often.

That should work out really well for you since you often dominate in the game. I tried Ordinance Priority but felt that was a waste at this stage of my game as I just managed to get my KDR above 1 (for Slayer). I'll definitely try it again sometime.

You may also want to consider ammo when playing Infinity Slayer, which could work better for you. You'll be able to get substantially more ammo for your power weapon drop, and for players like you who don't need to worry about losing your weapon to the wrong hands, its like you are getting 1.5 (?) power weapons per drop.

[eLantern]

Nov 13, 2012 14:40:16 GMT -5 wittyscorpion said:

Nov 13, 2012 14:33:06 GMT -5 eLantern said:

^ (Witty)
I created nearly that exact class yesterday.

Only difference was I put Ordinance Priority over Dexterity, so that I could attain power weapons quicker and more often.

That should work out really well for you since you often dominate in the game. I tried Ordinance Priority but felt that was a waste at this stage of my game as I just managed to get my KDR above 1 (for Slayer). I'll definitely try it again sometime.

You may also want to consider ammo when playing Infinity Slayer, which could work better for you. You'll be able to get substantially more ammo for your power weapon drop, and for players like you who don't need to worry about losing your weapon to the wrong hands, its like you are getting 1.5 (?) power weapons per drop.

I have the Ammo Support Upgrade on my Big Team Infinity Slayer Loadout and it's invaluable for the reason you explain... I'll also usually default to this class for CTF on Ragnarok, plus sometimes Slayer and CTF on Complex.

DMR
PP
Stickies
JP
Shield
Ammo

[wittyscorpion]

Regarding ammo: one trick I discovered is

1) Earn ordinance drop with my combat loadout;
2) If an attractive weapon is showing up, don't call it in right away if I don't have ammo on my combat loadout. Instead, select next loadout to be one with ammo as support upgrade, and call in the weapon after respawn.

The downside with this is that not calling in ordinance means the meter would not reset. So it is not a good idea for players who have long streaks of kills without dying. Not a problem I need to worry yet, so this strategy works pretty well for me :-)

[mw2baller]

wait a second, so can u cycle ordnance priority and ammo to effectively double your power weapon ammo?

[MoopusMaximus]

I hate how much they screwed over custom games.

No weapons other than the sword for flood.
No way to turn off sprint.
No way to turn of instant spawning.
No race.

[MoopusMaximus]

Nov 10, 2012 20:08:30 GMT -5 aidsaidsaids said:

From what I've seen none of it looks that bad to be honest. I used the doo-doo out of EV in Shadowrun (which is where the idea for PV came from almost certainly), good fun. The guns you think are OP aren't, sorry. You're just suffering from a common delusion that good = OP.

Microsoft's TrueSkill system has been in every Halo game. After around two or three games, you'll get a TrueSkill rating.

[MoopusMaximus]

Nov 11, 2012 23:14:42 GMT -5 exaltedvanguard said:

There is DEFINITELY skill-based matchmaking.

It's just very volatile at the moment while everyone's spreading out and finding their place.

I'll just come out and say that I've always been a very good Halo player. Just have. So when the game comes out (and I'm a hidden level 1), I was stomping on absolutely everyone I played. After pub-stomping for a night, I'm find myself playing against very obviously organized (and skilled) players. Players who are always trying to teamshot, run to cover and have their buddy come out and finish you off simultaneously. The type of stuff you see all the time at high-level play. And now all my games are against guys like this.

I'm actually having to put in good old fashioned effort to win! If there isn't a skill system being used, why have I gone from stomping every game to facing organized team-shotting opponents all the time?

Just don't worry about skill-based matchmaking right now. The game's been out a week. People will find their place eventually.

And you know what? Even when they do, you'll still have the occasional teammate who sucks horribly. Very few players can play at a consistent level all the time. Those who can are generally among the best, since they can consistently identify their weaknesses and improve. Just cause someone's having bad (downright terrible) game doesn't mean they're not ranked where they're supposed to be. It's just a bad game.

Heck, it might not even be the same person playing.

-----

I'd also like to state that I HATE the mid-game join/leave "feature." So many games are determined by the first 90 seconds of the game. It feels like half the time it's, "To play in this playlist, you must first lose one game."

I'd like to see League of Legend's quit mechanic brought to Halo. You can quit. But you have to either rejoin that game or wait till it's over. Get dropped by your bad connection? Just rejoin! People can no longer hide behind the, "Don't punish me for quitting, I just lag out a lot," excuse. True quitters have to sit in timeout till the game's over. People who D/C can jump back into the action. Everyone wins.

I'll also agree with OP by saying that the menus are clunky. Not ugly. Just clunky. I'll be looking at my new armor, and suddenly I hear the game counting down to start. Huh? I never got to vote! I didn't even know it was time to vote!

This This This.

The first two or three games, I was owning. The game hadn't TrueSkill ranked me. After around three or four games, I was playing pretty good players. They used tactics that most above average players implement.

Point is, TrueSkill definitely exists right now.

[eLantern]

Nov 14, 2012 3:51:48 GMT -5 MoopusMaximus said:

I hate how much they screwed over custom games.

No weapons other than the sword for flood.
No way to turn off sprint.
No way to turn of instant spawning.
[glow=red,2,300]No race[/glow].

I'd add... No custom power up.
However, NOT including a racing gametype is unacceptable. It's the only thing that has me truly upset about Halo 4. IMO, one of the biggest draws to Custom Games was for the vehicle races that could be properly setup. This was a HUGE step back from Reach and a HUGE mistake on 343i's behalf... hopefully they add it soon in an update.