arcanine2009
True Bro
the definitely not obsessed with dragunov guy
Posts: 11,792
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Post by arcanine2009 on Nov 12, 2012 17:46:46 GMT -5
Hi everyone, My brother and I are the ones who created that spreadsheet and the weapon ADS recoil video. We spent the last 4 days tirelessly counting frame values and testing with 99% accuracy in our results. To answer some questions: 1. The units used for range are arbitrary units as given by the FHJ-18. This is the only way we could obtain a 99% accurate measure for range. You can convert the units to meters by dividing by 3.8. (you can verify by using the Millimeter Scanner) 2. @ Mousy The Five-Seven DOES have a high damage range of 8. 3. All Reload, Add, ADS times and Rate of Fire values were determined by recording gameplay at 59.94fps, using a frame-accurate decoder (DSS2) to count the number of frames for each respective value and convert the result into a usable unit (seconds). 4. An interesting observation - Damage dropoff in this game is NOT linear. Rather, Dropoffs occur at discrete intervals. 5. Movement speeds are 100% accurate. Knife, Pistols, SMG and Shotguns all have the same movement speed. Sprint time was NOT tested. 6. RPM for FAL/SMR are without select fire 7. Max/Min damage values were determined using deductive reasoning + process of elimination by utilizing the information on the number of bullets required to kill at HP values ranging between 35-200% (a long process!) FAL OSW having a higher damage at cqc than SMR, is very weird... SMR has a longer 2 hit kill range, but still...
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Lexapro
True Bro
PSN: Lexa_pro
Posts: 1,066
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Post by Lexapro on Nov 12, 2012 17:48:23 GMT -5
So does the M27 have any kind of mobility advantage because it seems like its just a slower firing Type 25 with faster reloads.
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Post by Morshu on Nov 12, 2012 18:01:14 GMT -5
I'm just happy there are more then 3 fire rates between all the automatics.
Oh, and RIP vector.
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arcanine2009
True Bro
the definitely not obsessed with dragunov guy
Posts: 11,792
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Post by arcanine2009 on Nov 12, 2012 18:05:45 GMT -5
So does the M27 have any kind of mobility advantage because it seems like its just a slower firing Type 25 with faster reloads. It's also laser accurate.. But I feel you. I don't think it does have higher mobility. I asked someone else(either rubixx or toys), and they said no.
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Post by -3055- on Nov 12, 2012 18:30:02 GMT -5
i'm excited for those lmgs. especially the first one.
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arcanine2009
True Bro
the definitely not obsessed with dragunov guy
Posts: 11,792
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Post by arcanine2009 on Nov 12, 2012 18:44:47 GMT -5
So lets see... The only thing SMR has over FAL OSW, is greater 2 hit kill range? While SMR has slower rpm time, ads time, reload times, raise+drop times, smaller mag size, higher recoil, AND a wider hip fire spread??
THE FAL OSW could have at least the same mag size and a wider hipfire spread than the SMR...
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Post by Megaqwerty on Nov 12, 2012 19:01:00 GMT -5
It's a very dramatic range advantage. Nothing to brush off lightly.
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Post by aidsaidsaids on Nov 12, 2012 19:03:22 GMT -5
It's a very dramatic range advantage. Nothing to brush off lightly. Exactly. And with that RoF, three bullets v two is a huge difference.
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Post by I Am Hollywood5 on Nov 12, 2012 21:16:22 GMT -5
I've played combat training extensively today with almost every weapon except the LMGs (on PC) and I must say, this chart appears very accurate to what I experienced. The game also does appear to be very carefully balanced. It's certainly not perfect yet, but I would say that compared to every other CoD on their launch days, this is by far the most balanced launch-day CoD.
and ZOMG all the pistols are awesome for once!!
A couple things I'd change:
- Increase the SCAR's range, or give it 25 min damage - Type 25 could use a little more recoil, as it currently dwarfs M27 - MP7 is a little too good - should have less range, or some others slightly nerf - Either the Chicom CQB needs a slight buff, or the Skorpion needs a slight nerf - The SMR needs a buff. The FAL may also be a little bit too good...
Even with that, this game is already much more balanced that MW3 after all 20 of its patches.
imrlybord7, could you point me to exx's testing on the SWAT 556 and SCAR? I kind of hope these stats for these 2 are incorrect, because once you put the full-auto on the SWAT 556 it pretty much makes the SCAR useless. In fact I'd call it the best assault rifle with full-auto. The problem is that full-auto does absolutely nothing for the SCAR, not even reduced recoil. Overall I'd say the SCAR just needs more range, or 25 min damage.
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Post by duckcall00 on Nov 12, 2012 21:26:13 GMT -5
What are tubes like? OMA + Tube was the most fun ever in COD. I hate you OMA + Tubes.
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Post by duckcall00 on Nov 12, 2012 21:35:50 GMT -5
Tubes are fun. OMA is really fun. Tubes + OMA is overpowered, boring, and just generally game breaking,
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Post by duckcall00 on Nov 12, 2012 21:47:55 GMT -5
What makes it fun? Killing is no fun if you can't even see who you kill. Lobbing an endless supply of explosives onto a flag is just... not fun.
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Post by I Am Hollywood5 on Nov 12, 2012 21:55:24 GMT -5
is this guy serious or just trolling? Are there really still people who think MW2 OMA tubes were a good thing?
Anyways, this is a BO2 thread, not a MW2 thread. And the tubes in BO2 are exactly the way they were in BO1.
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Post by duckcall00 on Nov 12, 2012 22:01:57 GMT -5
I used domination as an example, but I rarely play it. MW2 Demolition was my favorite gamemode of all time. But every game, I still watch killcams where some guy just sits in a corner, wasting time changing to the same class, not helping plant a bomb, and taking easy kills. When I see this, I die a little inside. In the 3 years since release, I haven't found a way to counter OMA Tubers. If you kill them, you are just helping them. They don't need to spend another 6 seconds changing classes. If you ignore them, they mortar your team. Its just not satisfying to n00bt00b people. I prefer having the most kills on my team by using the riot shield, or some other under-appreciated weapon. I just feel dirty if I win from tubing.
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Post by pwnsweet on Nov 12, 2012 23:29:40 GMT -5
I've played combat training extensively today with almost every weapon except the LMGs (on PC) and I must say, this chart appears very accurate to what I experienced. The only part of the chart that I am not 100% confident in is the raise and drop values - Note: the values are what I'm not confident in, however I am 100% confident in how they compare to each other between different weapons. This unusual dichotomy is due to the way we tested raise and drop of each weapon, and stems from the problem of not being able to know for certain when the drop ends and the raise begins. Other than that though, this chart should be 99% accurate.
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arcanine2009
True Bro
the definitely not obsessed with dragunov guy
Posts: 11,792
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Post by arcanine2009 on Nov 13, 2012 0:07:17 GMT -5
- MP7 is a little too good - should have less range, or some others slightly nerf
According to the stats(assuming they are correct), MSMC and PDW57 have a longer 4 hit kill damage drop off than the MP7. Not to mention, significantly higher recoil... MP7 manages to beat PDW57 in kill time within 35-67 units, and MSMC within 50-67 units. But the distance isn't all that much, especially when compared MP7 to the MSMC. MP7's recoil is also pretty high(though predictable), which gives it a disadvantage at long range. So MP7 is at a disadvantage at clqc range against chicom, skorpion, msmc, and pdw57, due to slower kill time and it's screwed in long range agaisnt msmc and pdw57, due to higher recoil.
Here's hoping its faster RoF helps flinch..
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Post by pwnsweet on Nov 13, 2012 0:15:02 GMT -5
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Post by I Am Hollywood5 on Nov 13, 2012 1:04:53 GMT -5
The MP7's recoil is hardly any higher than the Vector's. Not enough to justify its other advantages over the Vector.
I also realized tonight that on burst weapons, when switching the full-auto, the fire rate is actually slower than the normal RoF within bursts.
Yet putting select fire on a full-auto weapon does absolutely nothing. I was hoping maybe it would be the same - increased fire rate within bursts - or maybe less recoil in burst mode, but it does literally nothing. I have no idea why they even offer that attachment for full-autos.
oh yeah, and the Type 25 definitely needs some more recoil. The M27 is currently pointless
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Post by xux on Nov 13, 2012 1:06:34 GMT -5
Kinda disappointed about the Tac-45 and Five-seven's long range damage; I think it should be SMG bullet to kill -1 'cause of the semi-auto-ness.
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Post by LeGitBeeSting on Nov 13, 2012 1:19:46 GMT -5
Silencer also has next to no range reduc for shotties. You sound disappointed.
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Post by I Am Hollywood5 on Nov 13, 2012 1:28:08 GMT -5
Kinda disappointed about the Tac-45 and Five-seven's long range damage; I think it should be SMG bullet to kill -1 'cause of the semi-auto-ness. agreed... 20 would be fair. But i mean... i doubt you'll ever be shooting a handgun at that kind of range anyway... I'm just happy we finally have a 2-shot kill pistol that isn't a revolver or Deagle
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arcanine2009
True Bro
the definitely not obsessed with dragunov guy
Posts: 11,792
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Post by arcanine2009 on Nov 13, 2012 1:28:36 GMT -5
The MP7's recoil is hardly any higher than the Vector's. Not enough to justify its other advantages over the Vector. I also realized tonight that on burst weapons, when switching the full-auto, the fire rate is actually slower than the normal RoF within bursts. Yet putting select fire on a full-auto weapon does absolutely nothing. I was hoping maybe it would be the same - increased fire rate within bursts - or maybe less recoil in burst mode, but it does literally nothing. I have no idea why they even offer that attachment for full-autos. oh yeah, and the Type 25 definitely needs some more recoil. The M27 is currently pointless Correct me if I'm wrong.. Is the SWAT the only burst gun that retains its rof(900 within the burst, and 900 in full auto)? Looks like it to me.. Instead of nerfing the Type 25, I think they should buff the M27. Maybe extend its 4 hit kill range to exceed MTAR's range by a little? Or hell, why not increase its max damage from 33 to 35 at least?
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Post by I Am Hollywood5 on Nov 13, 2012 16:50:48 GMT -5
The MP7's recoil is hardly any higher than the Vector's. Not enough to justify its other advantages over the Vector. I also realized tonight that on burst weapons, when switching the full-auto, the fire rate is actually slower than the normal RoF within bursts. Yet putting select fire on a full-auto weapon does absolutely nothing. I was hoping maybe it would be the same - increased fire rate within bursts - or maybe less recoil in burst mode, but it does literally nothing. I have no idea why they even offer that attachment for full-autos. oh yeah, and the Type 25 definitely needs some more recoil. The M27 is currently pointless Correct me if I'm wrong.. Is the SWAT the only burst gun that retains its rof(900 within the burst, and 900 in full auto)? Looks like it to me.. Instead of nerfing the Type 25, I think they should buff the M27. Maybe extend its 4 hit kill range to exceed MTAR's range by a little? Or hell, why not increase its max damage from 33 to 35 at least? Yes it does appear the SWAT556 retains its native RoF in full-auto. The gun is pretty average in burst mode, but just hands down the king of Assault Rifles in full-auto. Potential problem once everyone realizes this. And a flat 4 shot kill on the M27 would be nice, but then the silencer comes free, and Treyarch is more careful than that. I agree that its 4 shot kill range should just be extended (instead of nerfing the Type 25 - because the more I use it, the more I see it's just average)
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arcanine2009
True Bro
the definitely not obsessed with dragunov guy
Posts: 11,792
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Post by arcanine2009 on Nov 13, 2012 17:06:22 GMT -5
Is it fair to say that
FAL OSW w/ select fire>Scar. 2 hit kill up close, infinite 3 hit kill w/ no recoil, with -100 RPM the only drawback. M8A1 w/ select fire>type 25 at all ranges. 3 hit kill close range, larger mag size. SWAT556 w/select fire>all ar autos? A famas with a larger 3 hit kill range(someone confirm) with no RPM drop off via select fire?
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Post by Megaqwerty on Nov 13, 2012 17:24:43 GMT -5
Whoa, a weapon with an attachment is better than a weapon without an attachment? Wild, dude!
But seriously. The SWAT and the M8 look like caged tigers.
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Post by pwnsweet on Nov 13, 2012 17:25:40 GMT -5
Select Fire does...stuff to the weapon other than make burst and semi auto weapons full auto. It either:
1) Lowers range, or 2) Lowers damage
In either case, it causes the gun to take longer to kill. I have not tested this with every gun (that has Select Fire), but it has been observed for at least one Semi-Auto gun so far.
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Post by pwnsweet on Nov 13, 2012 17:33:35 GMT -5
It either: 1) Lowers range, or 2) Lowers damage or 3) Both. Also, the game has recently been patched to version 1.02 and some weapons have been re-balanced. I haven't had time to test, but I can confirm that at least one of the values on the spreadsheet is now wrong. The Type 25 Add Time (Empty) has been increased, and it looks like the regular reload time has been shortened.
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arcanine2009
True Bro
the definitely not obsessed with dragunov guy
Posts: 11,792
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Post by arcanine2009 on Nov 13, 2012 17:50:45 GMT -5
What weapon does select fire actually lower damage?
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asasa
True Bro
fuck
Posts: 4,255
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Post by asasa on Nov 13, 2012 17:55:46 GMT -5
Whoa, a weapon with an attachment is better than a weapon without an attachment? Wild, dude! But seriously. The SWAT and the M8 look like caged tigers. Its true that it has an attachment versus no attachment.. but what attachment will get the SCAR on par with the FAL full auto? It might give it some 'niche' ability over it like faster aiming.. but it wont really make it better.
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Post by pwnsweet on Nov 13, 2012 19:19:49 GMT -5
What weapon does select fire actually lower damage? I believe it was the Chicom CQB. I'll find out for sure and get back to you
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