mmacola
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the brazilian guy
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Post by mmacola on Nov 15, 2012 11:41:52 GMT -5
... I thought it was 2.0x multiplier on the head. 2.40 is only for Bucks and Flechette
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Brick2urface
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Post by Brick2urface on Nov 15, 2012 12:34:23 GMT -5
... I thought it was 2.0x multiplier on the head. 2.40 is only for Bucks and Flechette Pump slugs get a 2.5 or else I wouldn't be able to one shot anyone to the head past 40 meters. I get one shot head shots at 100+ all the time in core modes.
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mmacola
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the brazilian guy
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Post by mmacola on Nov 15, 2012 12:38:52 GMT -5
... I thought it was 2.0x multiplier on the head. 2.40 is only for Bucks and Flechette Pump slugs get a 2.5 or else I wouldn't be able to one shot anyone to the head past 40 meters. I get one shot head shots at 100+ all the time in core modes. I sniped with my 870 and headshots were a no-go. Will try it again though.
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Post by I Am Hollywood5 on Nov 15, 2012 22:48:17 GMT -5
HOLY OFF-TOPIC. The SWAT/M8A1 3hk range is actually useful precisely because of the knife. It sucks now. Using an attachment to get better panic hipfire definitely isn't nothing, especially considering the SWAT reloads literally half a second faster and you retain the long range burst option. The SWAT's recoil pattern (vertical only or nearly so) is pretty nice as well. I dont understand the logic here. A knife still kills a whole lot faster than 3 bullets at 900 rpm. And if the M8A1's 3HK range is also nerfed, it's even more pointless to use SF on that gun. It already gets a RoF nerf, which the SWAT does not. The 4HK range on that gun is also slightly less than the Type 25, I thought the whole point of the 21 unit 3HK range was to compensate for that, and the fact that the Type 25 doesn't need an attachment to fire full auto. And fires at 900 rpm as opposed to ~850. gosh darn golly gee whiz Treyarch. Y U NO LIKE BALANCE
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arcanine2009
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Post by arcanine2009 on Nov 15, 2012 23:40:40 GMT -5
HOLY OFF-TOPIC. The SWAT/M8A1 3hk range is actually useful precisely because of the knife. It sucks now. Using an attachment to get better panic hipfire definitely isn't nothing, especially considering the SWAT reloads literally half a second faster and you retain the long range burst option. The SWAT's recoil pattern (vertical only or nearly so) is pretty nice as well. I dont understand the logic here. A knife still kills a whole lot faster than 3 bullets at 900 rpm. And if the M8A1's 3HK range is also nerfed, it's even more pointless to use SF on that gun. It already gets a RoF nerf, which the SWAT does not. The 4HK range on that gun is also slightly less than the Type 25, I thought the whole point of the 21 unit 3HK range was to compensate for that, and the fact that the Type 25 doesn't need an attachment to fire full auto. And fires at 900 rpm as opposed to ~850. gosh darn golly gee whiz Treyarch. Y U NO LIKE BALANCE I think Treyarch tried way too hard to balance this game. But they have their own sense of balance, and ultimately it just.. kind of back fired. -You have Ghost split into 4 perks, with the actual ghost perk in slot 1, only being usable when moving near 75% speed or so, or when planting a bomb. Add insult to injury when Ghost is unlocked at level 55. This screws with the sniping class especially,, since snipers have to be stationary to shoot. >_> -Snipers also get a stupid bullet trail that reveals their position. -removal of motion sensor,MMS, target finder, blackhat are also anti-tactical loitering efforts. Black Hat is powerful as hell, I reckon its going to bet patched eventually. -In addition to the other anti tactical loitering efforts listed above, this game is more cqc oriented since ARs got nerfed more than smgs, and maps cater more towards smgs in this game.
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Nov 16, 2012 0:39:47 GMT -5
1: I didnt expect that to be a problem, but it most definitely is. However, the maps dont really support any sniping at all, so its not a huge loss.
2: Duration too long and high visibilty... if it werent so excessive in either of those, it wouldnt be a big deal... but it is.
3: I approve of removing the motion sensor... but the Target Finder is very obnoxious.
4: Yep.
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arcanine2009
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Post by arcanine2009 on Nov 16, 2012 1:03:30 GMT -5
Actually black hat isn't that bad.. It's balanced that only one kill streak or weapon can be hacked/taken down.
There's several maps that cater to sniping in this game actually. Turbine, Aftermath, Yemen, and Drone come to mind. A lot of people actually thought MW3 had horrible maps for sniping at launch week also, but that wasn't true. And if you were decent at least, you could snipe in any map. BO2 in comparison, has obviously more open maps for sniping.
If they could just give Ghost full immunity to UAVs without being forced to move or plant a bomb, and having it unlocked significantly earlier in the game (20s to 40s), it would do wonders. Especially for snipers.
Also hardwired needs to be fixed. Too situational. Combine it with another perk maybe(like with Ghost), and have the orbital satellites immune to Ghost like in Bo1?
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Nov 16, 2012 1:44:28 GMT -5
Jeez, are you trying to make ghost the best Perk 1 again by a massive margin?
Its already the best >.>
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Lexapro
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Post by Lexapro on Nov 16, 2012 1:52:01 GMT -5
Flak Jacket would like a word with you.
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Post by I Am Hollywood5 on Nov 16, 2012 2:16:31 GMT -5
Jeez, are you trying to make ghost the best Perk 1 again by a massive margin? Its already the best >.> LOL already the best?? It's the only Perk 1 that i HAVENT used yet. Have you tried the new Hardline? It drops the Lodestar from a 15 killstreak to a 12 killstreak, and the Swarm from a 19 killstreak to a 15 killstreak. i run hardline on EVERY SINGLE CLASS, now that I realized how powerful it is. Flak Jacket is (was) crazy as well, but rumor is it might have been nerfed a little. ANYWAY, I just found that the Chicom CQB's RoF within bursts is 1200. What is it in full-auto? 900. Yes, putting SF on the Chicom is the inverse of rapid fire. I really dont see any reason to use that gun at all. I can't find a single advantage it has over any of the other SMGs. Makes me wonder why they didn't just make the full-auto SWAT shoot at 720 rpm with unaltered damage/range... might have made sense to use it then...
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moses
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Post by moses on Nov 16, 2012 2:52:58 GMT -5
I really dont see any reason to use that gun at all. I can't find a single advantage it has over any of the other SMGs. Makes me wonder why they didn't just make the full-auto SWAT shoot at 720 rpm with unaltered damage/range... might have made sense to use it then... The Chicom CQB with Grip is the best SMG at long range, with or without Select Fire, due to its low recoil. It can fulfill a more well-balanced role if you're looking to rarely get caught with your pants down.
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arcanine2009
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Post by arcanine2009 on Nov 16, 2012 2:59:48 GMT -5
Jeez, are you trying to make ghost the best Perk 1 again by a massive margin? Its already the best >.> Love your sarcasm.
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Evan950
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Post by Evan950 on Nov 16, 2012 12:05:14 GMT -5
dammit i regret using a token on the swat now -.- its gonna haunt me in the future how about the FAL, is it reccomemended to use it as auto?
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Post by Megaqwerty on Nov 16, 2012 12:14:48 GMT -5
That's subject to taste: the fire rate takes a huge hit, but full auto at ~400RPM may be better depending on your trigger finger.
I think the SWAT may have more versatility than we're reading. You could use full auto in CQC and then burst at all other ranges, allowing it to be competitive at all ranges.
But that's a stretch given how miniscule the 3 hit kill range is.
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moses
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Post by moses on Nov 16, 2012 13:45:33 GMT -5
dammit i regret using a token on the swat now -.- its gonna haunt me in the future how about the FAL, is it reccomemended to use it as auto? It's subject to both how fast you can shoot and how well you can aim and fight normally while shooting. For me, on Xbox, I can't aim that well when I'm trying to hammer the trigger down, nor can I fire fast enough to do well in a fire fight with multiple opponents or if I'm trying to compete at close-range (say I know where an opponent is in a corner, I might not spray fast enough to get him). That's me, though. I get a lot out of the Select Fire attachment, whereas one of my more skilled friends has a trigger finger that looks like he's modding AND he can control his aim properly while doing it. For him, it's a waste of an attachment, which could instead be a Suppressor, Quick Draw, FMJ, or just another point in the 10 point system. I will say even with 400 RPM, that's a .15 second TTK up to mid-range, and a .3 second TTK anywhere beyond. That's with minimal recoil, and very little penalty for using a suppressor. No other AR can match that up close to mid-range TTK, and all ARs have more recoil at long range, meaning their slightly better TTKs at range have very little advantage. It's very strong with Select Fire.
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Post by aidsaidsaids on Nov 16, 2012 14:16:29 GMT -5
I will say even with 400 RPM, that's a .15 second TTK up to mid-range, and a .3 second TTK anywhere beyond. That's with minimal recoil, and very little penalty for using a suppressor. No other AR can match that up close to mid-range TTK, and all ARs have more recoil at long range, meaning their slightly better TTKs at range have very little advantage. It's very strong with Select Fire. Spoken like someone who has not unlocked the M8A1. Don't get me wrong, the FAL isn't bad. The M8A1 just happens to be a more consistent G11.
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Post by volgon on Nov 16, 2012 14:17:58 GMT -5
dammit i regret using a token on the swat now -.- its gonna haunt me in the future how about the FAL, is it reccomemended to use it as auto? It's subject to both how fast you can shoot and how well you can aim and fight normally while shooting. For me, on Xbox, I can't aim that well when I'm trying to hammer the trigger down, nor can I fire fast enough to do well in a fire fight with multiple opponents or if I'm trying to compete at close-range (say I know where an opponent is in a corner, I might not spray fast enough to get him). That's me, though. I get a lot out of the Select Fire attachment, whereas one of my more skilled friends has a trigger finger that looks like he's modding AND he can control his aim properly while doing it. For him, it's a waste of an attachment, which could instead be a Suppressor, Quick Draw, FMJ, or just another point in the 10 point system. I will say even with 400 RPM, that's a .15 second TTK up to mid-range, and a .3 second TTK anywhere beyond. That's with minimal recoil, and very little penalty for using a suppressor. No other AR can match that up close to mid-range TTK, and all ARs have more recoil at long range, meaning their slightly better TTKs at range have very little advantage. It's very strong with Select Fire. The thing is that many of the gun fights you get into where that .15 second TTK comes into play are in hip fire range. Even if you statistically have a much better TTK, you are going to get rolled by a 900rpm SMG (even worse if it has a Laser). I found this out the hard way; I am having MUCH better success in CQC running the Type 25 over my MTAR (which has a 3HK range and faster TTK in CQC) because if I'm hip firing, it's all about how many bullets you can spit out and not how many times I need to hit.
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Post by I Am Hollywood5 on Nov 16, 2012 16:03:01 GMT -5
I will say even with 400 RPM, that's a .15 second TTK up to mid-range, and a .3 second TTK anywhere beyond. That's with minimal recoil, and very little penalty for using a suppressor. No other AR can match that up close to mid-range TTK, and all ARs have more recoil at long range, meaning their slightly better TTKs at range have very little advantage. It's very strong with Select Fire. Spoken like someone who has not unlocked the M8A1. Don't get me wrong, the FAL isn't bad. The M8A1 just happens to be a more consistent G11. M8A1 is pretty awesome. Found out today that within the 4 round burst, it's 1200 rpm. Fires at 900 rpm in full-auto. Not sure if this is because of a patch or if it's been this way the whole time, but I know the latest patch did nerf the M8A1's mag size. Honestly the M8A1 seems to be the only burst weapon that remains competitive with SF, because it turns into a Type 25 with 3HK range of 21 meters, while having more controllable recoil. Since it costs 2 points and an attachment slot, it should, by definition, have a noticeable advantage over the T25. The SWAT SF is still never worth using to me. I want that token back. As for the FAL, I think the RoF is more than 400. Semi-auto fire cap is 515, so I'd guess full auto would be about 450.
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Post by aidsaidsaids on Nov 16, 2012 20:02:39 GMT -5
M8A1 doesn't even need SF. The delay is that short.
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Post by jackaltornmoons on Nov 16, 2012 22:03:46 GMT -5
I really dont see any reason to use that gun at all. I can't find a single advantage it has over any of the other SMGs. Except shooting a stream of bullets super fast without any recoil? It's a monster.
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Post by citrus on Nov 17, 2012 10:39:49 GMT -5
The M8 with select fire is a pretty nice gun, I think it's definitely the best full auto AR. The 3HK range is fairly small and gets even smaller with the suppressor, but it has a good ROF (better than the MTAR, I think around ~800rpm) and the recoil is upwards like the G36c. A 720 rpm 3HK gun kills faster than a 900 rpm 4HK gun.
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Evan950
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Post by Evan950 on Nov 17, 2012 11:07:44 GMT -5
i've been using the m8 with sf too its a beast, it has little recoil, 900pm which is similar to smg's and a 3hk i use sf because the bursts just don't cut it for me they seem to only land 2 bullets out of the 4
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Post by I Am Hollywood5 on Nov 17, 2012 16:43:21 GMT -5
M8A1 doesn't even need SF. The delay is that short. Agreed. The M8A1's burst is nasty.
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Nov 17, 2012 18:39:36 GMT -5
Jeez, are you trying to make ghost the best Perk 1 again by a massive margin? Its already the best >.> Love your sarcasm. I love your pro-tactical loitering bias..
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arcanine2009
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Post by arcanine2009 on Nov 17, 2012 18:52:22 GMT -5
Ghost is already 1/4 as effective as it was in BO, and its unlocked at level 55.
I love your pro-rushing irrational "anti-tactical loitering" bias.
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Nov 17, 2012 19:26:50 GMT -5
That's subject to taste: the fire rate takes a huge hit, but full auto at ~400RPM may be better depending on your trigger finger. I think the SWAT may have more versatility than we're reading. You could use full auto in CQC and then burst at all other ranges, allowing it to be competitive at all ranges. But that's a stretch given how miniscule the 3 hit kill range is. Why ever use burst? Its never better than single firing.
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mmacola
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Post by mmacola on Nov 17, 2012 19:46:29 GMT -5
^Mid and close range
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Nov 17, 2012 19:57:43 GMT -5
I agree with megs. Not switching between your firing modes is almost as bad as using a hybrid sight for just one of them. That is one of the worst arguments I have ever heard.
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Nov 17, 2012 20:16:40 GMT -5
Nothing complicated about it. Burst fire is less accurate than single firing.
Your argument is atrocious. It has two modes, therefore you must use both. THE FUCKING ATTACHMENT MAY AS WELL BE CALLED "FULL AUTO".
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Nov 17, 2012 20:23:24 GMT -5
You're assuming that using burst brings back the original range. And either way the SWAT sucks dick full auto.
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