W2000 and M21 EBR - Differences?

[toad]

Hey. My first post : )

I have a question about these two Siper Rifles. Putting bullet damage and multipliers to one side, are there any known differences between the two? The reason I ask is because I like playing the sniper class as stealthy as possible, and before I prestiged, I used the M21 without SP and with a silencer. I found it quit resonable to pull off two quick bursts to take out an enemy quickly and silently. Although it can be much harder when the enemy is far away.

So in a nutshell, will I be able to use the W2000 in the same way, without losing any benifit?

Thanks in advance!

[Den]

The WA2000 has more kick and a smaller magazine.
It won't be nearly as effective at making two concise shots.

[toad]

Ah right. Thanks very much for that.

Will now have to wait till level 56 for the M21! {sighs}

[mdnl]

I keep meaning to get round to a silenced m21.

The Walther is the perfect amount of inbetween for me though.

Barret = Huge kick but one shot to stomach with SP

Walther = Low kick one shot to chest and up without SP.

M21 = No/hardly any kick one shot headshot only.

[imrlybord7]

Yeah, but he is using a silencer and CB, so there are no one shot kills.

[toad]

Dec 14, 2009 10:33:31 GMT -5 mdnl said:

I keep meaning to get round to a silenced m21.

The Walther is the perfect amount of inbetween for me though.

Barret = Huge kick but one shot to stomach with SP

Walther = Low kick one shot to chest and up without SP.

M21 = No/hardly any kick one shot headshot only.

Good stuff. That means if I'm not using SP, and not using a silencer, the W2000 has a clear advantage over the .50 Cal! Cool...

Thanks.

[cptmacmillan]

And if you are using a silencer it still has a very, very clear advantage over the G82. The WA2000 has been my weapon of choice of the past couple of days, and I think I've found the class I'm going to stick with:

WA2000 Silenced
USP .45 Silenced
C4
Stun x2
SoH
SP
Ninja
(Search and Destroy primarily, but any works)

Silencer + Stopping Power is basically using your perk 2 to allow you to fire silenced instead of increasing killing power. I do not use cold-blooded because in snd uavs are not as common and besides, I feel the need to kill in one shot. Headshots that don't kill are annoying.USP is my choice of secondary for its quick swap and quick reload traits. Ninja is interchangable with Sitrep Pro, but I hate heartbeat sensors. This is not necessarily a tactical loitering class, although it can be.

C4 is, in my opinion, the best equipment in the game. I've fallen back in love with this beaut recently and honestly all I can say is give it a good try. It's useful for a lot more than just being tossed on a bomb site.

[ssog]

Dec 15, 2009 5:10:13 GMT -5 toad said:

Good stuff. That means if I'm not using SP, and not using a silencer, the W2000 has a clear advantage over the .50 Cal! Cool...

Thanks.

Yes, there is a clear delineation among the sniper rifles. All of them are clearly the best depending on some combination of SP or Silencer. In the quasi chart below, red means no and green means yes-

M21- Stopping Power / Silencer
WA2000- Stopping Power / Silencer or
WA2000- Stopping Power / Silencer
Barrett- Stopping Power / Silencer
Intervention- Killing / Dying

[mdnl]

I believe the Sniper selections to be the best in terms of variety and balance. They really hit the nail on the head with them.

[jlayman920]

Dec 15, 2009 5:18:06 GMT -5 cptmacmillan said:

I do not use cold-blooded because in snd uavs are not as common and besides, I feel the need to kill in one shot.

The best reason to use cold blooded isn't to avoid UAVs, it's to avoid any Harrier, Auto-chopper or sentry guns. I love watching an enemy place a sentry gun only to walk up to it two seconds later and disable it.
I was playing domination on Sub Base last night and the other team took B early and put THREE sentry guns right inside the large garage opening leading back to A and then they all fell back to A. I just went right down the line and knife, knife, knife.

[corwinwarner]

True,

Cold blooded brings comfort.
Moreover, it's not that difficult to get one-shot kills with the Barrett and no SP.

My class for "outdoor sniping" :

Primary: Barrett
Secondary: M104 (love this baby) or M93

Perk1: Scavenger (on Wasteland) or SoH
Perk2: Cold Blooded
Perk3: Steady aim

So far, it rocks!!! Especially in HQ.

[toysrme]

Dec 14, 2009 6:56:43 GMT -5 Den said:

The WA2000 has more kick and a smaller magazine.
It won't be nearly as effective at making two concise shots.

thats not right, and if it is then the wa2k's higher center speed gives it less effective recoil anyway to the end user.

I wrote burst firing scripts for both weapons that have a big amount of anti-recoil in them.
firing the same rate the WA2k is like 35% less anti-recoil to get it to shoot the same base accuracy.




i had a video of it but it was up like 8 days before MW2 came out and IW had it taken off youtube. lost it entirely.
someone had asked me to do one on a wa2k with an earlier version of its script; so here's some ultra doo-dooty gameplay of a wa2k & how an xim actually works.

[toysrme]

u can also see how even in MW2 auto-aim really likes taking the fast movement of the gun's natural recoil & anti-recoil of the script between shots and turns that into insta-headshots. not like a regular basis, but very often enough.

[cptmacmillan]

The best reason to use cold blooded isn't to avoid UAVs, it's to avoid any Harrier, Auto-chopper or sentry guns. I love watching an enemy place a sentry gun only to walk up to it two seconds later and disable it.

If UAVs aren't as common in SnD what makes you think all of those things are? They show up, yes, but they aren't frequent so I'd rather spend one minute waiting in a few situations rather than Foxtrot up my ability to kill people efficiently in all situations.

Cold blooded brings comfort.
Moreover, it's not that difficult to get one-shot kills with the Barrett and no SP.

Well yes, but I was talking about a Silenced WA2000 and you're talking about a G82 without a silencer. Not that I disagree with your statement; a silenced WA2000 with stopping power will kill in one shot in the same places an unsuppressed G82 w/o stopping power will... and that's why I use it, it's not hard at all to get kills once you're in that area. But I need SP to get into that area.

The WA2000 has more kick and a smaller magazine.
It won't be nearly as effective at making two concise shots.

Never addressed this before, but as the other guy said it must have a higher recenter speed. If I miss a 1hk area with my first shot (or tragically completely miss), then I have no problem getting a second accurate shot off quite quickly.

[toad]

Dec 17, 2009 5:02:05 GMT -5 toysrme said:

Dec 14, 2009 6:56:43 GMT -5 Den said:

The WA2000 has more kick and a smaller magazine.
It won't be nearly as effective at making two concise shots.

thats not right, and if it is then the wa2k's higher center speed gives it less effective recoil anyway to the end user.

I wrote burst firing scripts for both weapons that have a big amount of anti-recoil in them.
firing the same rate the WA2k is like 35% less anti-recoil to get it to shoot the same base accuracy.




i had a video of it but it was up like 8 days before MW2 came out and IW had it taken off youtube. lost it entirely.
someone had asked me to do one on a wa2k with an earlier version of its script; so here's some ultra doo-dooty gameplay of a wa2k & how an xim actually works.

Sorry. In laymans terms, what does this mean? Are you stating that the W2000 is just as easy to fire 2 consecutive shots as the M21?

[toysrme]

it means that the WA2000's sight centers itself faster than the rest. crazy faster.


it means that if you were to fire each sniper rifle as soon as the sight centers back up the wa2000 would fire the fastest by a wide margin. m21 after that intervention then barrett (but the itv just cant fire that fast anyway)

[toad]

Sorry for messing up the last quote. D'oh.

Oh! So the Wa2000 is even better than the m21 in all aspects? If it centres quicker, allowing 2 shots to fire quickly together in a better manner than the m21, and it has better multipliers, the m21 is useless?

[mannon]

Maybe Den meant that the M21 is the one that you fire two consecutive shots with very quickly before the recoil tosses you too far off aim. I think I read somebody mentioning that or something. Though I'm not sure the M21 was the gun mentioned.

[ssog]

Dec 17, 2009 7:05:58 GMT -5 toad said:

Sorry for messing up the last quote. D'oh.

Oh! So the Wa2000 is even better than the m21 in all aspects? If it centres quicker, allowing 2 shots to fire quickly together in a better manner than the m21, and it has better multipliers, the m21 is useless?

If you fire, wait for it to center, and then fire again, the WA2000 is better (although it has less ammo and a smaller clip).

If you fire twice as rapidly as possible to land both shots before the recoil kicks in, then the M21 is better.

[toad]

Thank you for that!

[toysrme]

the wa2k fires faster. m21 has a lower rof.

wa is the king of the double tap kills. it has trouble because it only has 6 rounds.

21 is good enough to be useable and do about the same thing and holds 10 rounds.


best thing to do is level the 2k and swap to the 21.

[jlesaistu]

I say:

NO SP + silencer = M21
Silencer + SP OR, no SP = WA2000
SP = Barret/intervention

pretty much best sniper to use with for every SP / SIlencer combo.

Sure for np SP + silencer, they are basically alway 2hk...not used m21 much but i feel it is more efficiency as a 2hk sniper than the WA2000 just because of the greater mag and lower recoil.

Dunno about re centering time for the Wa2000 over the m21 however.

[talon1579]

Dec 17, 2009 4:30:18 GMT -5 corwinwarner said:

True,

Cold blooded brings comfort.
Moreover, it's not that difficult to get one-shot kills with the Barrett and no SP.

My class for "outdoor sniping" :

Primary: Barrett
Secondary: M104 (love this baby) or M93

Perk1: Scavenger (on Wasteland) or SoH
Perk2: Cold Blooded
Perk3: Steady aim

So far, it rocks!!! Especially in HQ.

I tried using cold blooded, but so few people actually use thermal scopes that there's little point using it.

I use:

-Intervention w/Heartbeat + Thermal
-G18 w/Akimbo + Silenced

-Bling Pro
-Stopping Power Pro
-Ninja Pro

That way you can lie in grass/bushes and see enemies without exposing yourself. Unfortunately you're in the shit when some gets a UAV, but nobody uses them much.

[ssog]

Dec 19, 2009 13:03:54 GMT -5 talon1579 said:

I tried using cold blooded, but so few people actually use thermal scopes that there's little point using it.

I use:

-Intervention w/Heartbeat + Thermal
-G18 w/Akimbo + Silenced

-Bling Pro
-Stopping Power Pro
-Ninja Pro

That way you can lie in grass/bushes and see enemies without exposing yourself. Unfortunately you're in the doo-doo when some gets a UAV, but nobody uses them much.

Cold Blooded isn't about protecting from Thermals- of its four benefits, that's the fourth best. The third best is the "no red tag" Pro bonus. The second best is the invisible to UAVs. The biggest and best reason to use Cold Blooded is because it makes you immune to enemy killstreaks.

[mannon]

Absofrigginlutely agree with Ssog 100% It doesn't make you totally invisible in thermal anyway. Laughing in the face of choppers and harriers and actually managing to shoot down AC130s (with a little help) is priceless. But for when there are no KS's up the other stuff helps too.

BTW something I just inadvertently noticed last night that's good about CB:Pro... it rocks for Last Stand. lol I've been using Last Stand for a while and found it hard to get kills as most people just know to keep shooting until you really die. But I have some classes with both Last Stand and CB and once CB leveled up to Pro I started getting a lot more Last Stand kills. I didn't even realize why at first, but the answer is simple. No more red name and crosshairs, which makes it so much easier for people to not realize you aren't totally dead as you cave in their skull with 2 shots from your pistol. hehe It was quite fun.

I believe that Last Stand kills still count on your Kill Streak too. There were even a few times that people were slow enough to notice that I would get killed from behind or the side and actually have time to turn around and shoot them in Last Stand and I got more than one kill multiple times.

[xenon]

Silencer
Cold Blooded = M21 EBR (2 shots to kill)
Stopping Power = WA2000 (1 shot kill to head and chest)

No Silencer
Cold Blooded = WA2000 (1 shot kill to head and chest)
Stopping power = .50 Barret [or Intervention] (1 shot kill to head, chest and body) [or M21 EBR (1 shot kill to head and chest)]

[mannon]

I thought a Table would be Handy.

Sniper Rifle Usage	(1x) Stopping Power	(1.4x) Stopping Power
(50dmg) Silencer	(50dmg) M21 EBR*	(70dmg) WA2000
(70dmg) Silencer	(70dmg) WA2000	(98dmg) Barret .50cal/Intervention**

Legend
Values = Low Average High
Usage = Off On

* The table assumes M21 EBR>WA2000, if WA2000 is preferred use it.
** Barret .50cal/Intervention gains 1HK to stomach, but if this is not considered important then either M21 EBR or WA2000 according to preference performs as well.

PS. Not getting into the whole Barret .50cal vs Intervention thing. IMO for sniping it-self it just comes down to preference unless ammo becomes an issue.

[corwinwarner]

Well, something I haven't heard anyone talking about : I spent yesterday night testing and confirming mannon's chart right above.

The WA2000 is great BUT I'll stick with the M21 just because it's not blocking the entire right side of the screen^^

[toad]

If you are not using Stopping Power, then the .50 Cal is definitely outclassed by the WA2000, as you have the same ability to OHK, (head or chest) and if you miss this area, you can fire a second bullet much easier, as the WA2000 steadies a lot quicker.

[mannon]

Maximum base damage (98dmg using Stopping Power with no Silencer) appears to be the only time that the .50cal/Intervention have any legitimate advantage over the other sniper rifles and even then it only adds the stomach and your ability to get 2 hits is severely limited, so you might still prefer the M21 or the WA2K.

Considering if you are having trouble hitting the head/neck and upper chest you are probably as likely to hit an arm or leg as the stomach it might be better to have a weapon that will help you in both situations rather than only in one and not the other. But I imagine it comes down to preference. Personally I think I'd go with WA or M21 because it will also help you out in the cases where you miss completely. So it comes down to:

(wSP, w/oSilencer)
Barret .50cal/Intervention helps kill when hit stomach (1HK).
WA2000/M21 EBR help when hit stomach, arm, leg, or complete miss (easier to get 2nd shot).

I might recommend .50cal/Intervention if you regularly have a lot of difficulty lining up a second shot even with the faster rifles, though. But in practice I think I'll leave that to the experts as I've still not gotten used to CoD style sniping.

At any rate I just used the info expressed here and the numbers we know to make the table. It's just a quick guide and doesn't say anything not already said in this thread.