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Post by Voice from the Basement on Nov 21, 2012 6:31:42 GMT -5
Make sure you understand it's my own opinion – I'm not saying that "everyone think these guns suck".
I've been thinking about these two guns a lot and all I've understood so far is that they have NO clue at all. They're both outclassed by M8A1 and FAL OSW, respectively, and the only their advantage is a range while having big penalties: idiotic Rate of Fire for SWAT-556 and lots of small disadvantages for SMR. Also, they both have worse recoil than their "rivals" (M8A1's recoil is very easy to control cause the gun seems to have only vertical recoil, while SWAT-556's one…). While using Select Fire SWAT-556 totally lose M8A1 (and it's the best attachment for one), SMR seems to be just a worse version of FAL OSW (its worse recoil denies the range advantage).
Maybe I can be wrong about SMR (it still can be used as the best gun for middle range combats – if you can control its recoil properly your shots will be landing right on the target (but don't forget that Black Ops II is a CQC game)), but SWAT-556… SWAT-556 really needs a buff.
Also, notice that I'm not talking about scripts/modded controlers that allows you to shoot at the highest fire rate of semi-auto guns: the game considers you play fair and most of players are playing fair enough.
(My conclusion was made when I understood how OP is automatic FAL OSW.)
Well, lots of people here say that M27 is just a PoS, much worse, than SWAT-556 and SMR, – well, everyone has his own opinion; but, as for me, M27 is not looking so useless like SWAT-556 or SMR. M27 is the best choice for begginners and cаmpers (especially for begginers that are cаmping, and it's one of the best choice for long range combats.
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Post by kt42 on Nov 21, 2012 7:53:43 GMT -5
They have some strengths. SWAT-556 is the only 4HK AR in the game. SMR's 2HK range is the double of FAL OSW's.
The gun that I think has no point is M27.
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Post by toad on Nov 21, 2012 7:58:49 GMT -5
The SMR has the ability to 2 shot kill from a greater distance than the FAL OSW. At least that's something...  |
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Post by toad on Nov 21, 2012 7:59:13 GMT -5
Pipped to the post.
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Post by kazei009 on Nov 21, 2012 8:12:06 GMT -5
The M27 has best reload time in AR class an also has very clear iron sights. This weapon can be effectively used withou ANY attachments. And don't forget low recoil.
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Post by iw5000 on Nov 21, 2012 8:28:30 GMT -5
Weird.
Two of the assault rifles i have most used, found to be most effective for me so far....
...are the one's being bashed in this thread as 'useless'. The M27 and SWAT. I like them both. I admit to not having tried the others a lot, but the above two have helped me play better. Using them instead of the MTAR and T25.
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Zero IX
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Post by Zero IX on Nov 21, 2012 8:42:34 GMT -5
So far I haven't found any of the guns in this game to be useless. They all seem to have a place or function or at least work well independent of an obvious niche... but I haven't even touched the M27 or SMR yet! I dig the FAL, though, so here's looking at you, SMR.
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Post by Voice from the Basement on Nov 21, 2012 9:31:09 GMT -5
Well, I'm not offending M27 – I think it has it's own place in this game, even though it statistically sucks. And I can't see why literally everybody here thinks it's useless – it's one of the best guns for newbies (or, as Champ said, "COD kids") because of it's low recoil combined with low RPM. I haven't used it yet, too (2–3 kills with picked up M27). But SWAT-556… I've picked it up for a several times and I always died cause of it's being kinda slow, while M8A1 even without Select Fire is actually not that bad. They have some strengths. SWAT-556 is the only 4HK AR in the game. You mean the only among burst- and auto-ARs in this game? SCAR-H should be considered as 4HK at range, too, cause there are literally no combats in 250 ft in this games (I use this gun a lot but I've never got a kill on such a range). And while SCAR-H is automatic, SWAT-556 is a 3-round-burst weapon, having only 20 ft more 3HK range. In CQC this gun is beaten by nearly everything, and Select Fire attachment is useless cause of reduced damage and high recoil (while M8A1 is a CQC beast with the Select Fire). Maybe my opinion is built upon my total ignorance in burst- and semi-ARs cause I've used them only in MW2 where there was Stopping Power. |
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Post by Voice from the Basement on Nov 21, 2012 9:35:56 GMT -5
It's a freaking laser beam. Nobody would say that the mw2 acr was a bad gun. That's it. That's what I've said somewhere else here: M27 is Black Ops II's variant of MW2's ACR, with, of course, reduced stats (range and slightly – RoF) to be balanced for the entire game. |
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Nov 21, 2012 10:03:28 GMT -5
I like the SMR.
I used my first permanent unlock on it. Dat nice long 2HK range.
That said... I use it differently than most. I use it like a sniper rifle with target finder (since SRs don't get TF).
Pop up from my shield. Simultaneously fire. Enemy flinches missing their lined up headshot. Second round finishes them off. Nice. Clean. No damage taken on my part.
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asasa
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fuck
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Post by asasa on Nov 21, 2012 10:21:06 GMT -5
FAL could do that too, and inflict more flinch with 55 damage versus 50. 50 damage isnt enough to consistently 2HK, as anything drops it below... 50.
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Nov 21, 2012 10:24:59 GMT -5
I thought I would like the FAL.I was told it was going to be great with select fire. I actually found that I didn't like it.
perhaps I use it at longer ranges.
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PassiveVengance
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Post by PassiveVengance on Nov 21, 2012 11:28:41 GMT -5
I kinda like the SWAT, but it has to be played in a patrolling sort of role, or overwatch, or something to that nature. I use:
SWAT
Target Finder (Nothing like having marksman for those long kills)
Select Fire (For CQC when moving is necessary)
Laser Sight (Above reason)
Primary Attch. Wildcard
Ghost
Scavenger
Engineer
Bouncing Betty
Black Hat
Use like a long range weapon. ALWAYS burst unless you are moving around to get somewhere. If you play really campy, then Engineer can be switched for Dead Silence so you can move around while tactical loitering to get Ghost's effect, while not being heard.
Or, you can use:
SWAT
Target Finder
Suppressor
Overkill
Skorpion EVO
Ghost
Fast Hands
Engineer
B.B.
Black Hat
Take advantage of the 4hk minimum damage with the supressor, and use the Skorpion while moving around (or the PDW, or the MSMC, or whatever floats your boat. Except the Chicom. Don't use the Chicom.) You can sub out anything in here to put an attachment on your Skorpion, like Rapid Fire (since the Skorp is your CQC weapon, range doesn't matter)
Personally, if I'm using the M8A1, its with Select Fire, and it is always on auto, since I have absolutely no incentive to keep it a burst weapon. I think the SWAT takes better usage of the full Select Fire attachment here because of better BTK stats when burst, and automatic fire for CQC engagements. Plus, dat supressor on the SWAT. Its a decent range weapon if you use it properly. And the M27. Personally, I'm not a fan, i prefer the MTAR or the Type 25 if i want an automatic without spending 2 points and a wasted attachment slot on a gun.
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Post by aidsaidsaids on Nov 21, 2012 11:43:06 GMT -5
I honestly feel like the M8A1 makes every other AR useless. It just wins at everything important. ttk, recoil, starting ammo. At the expense of what, .02 seconds of drop time? I don't even run it with SF any more usually, the burst delay is so short I feel like I'm wasting an attachment. I used my second prestige unlock on the gun, and it's still my go-to 3k+ kills and 3 prestiges later. If you aren't going to use an SMG, it seems like pretty much the only choice if you're being at all serious. Every Variant match we've played so far had at least half our opponents running it. If nothing changes, it's the designated tryhard gun as far as I'm concerned.
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Post by Indy_Bones on Nov 21, 2012 11:53:14 GMT -5
I find the SWAT to be pretty poor under normal circumstances, much like the pre-patch M16 from BLOPS/MW3, where it is actually pretty good is in Hardcore although you'd still be better taking most other options anyway...
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Post by aidsaidsaids on Nov 21, 2012 11:56:32 GMT -5
How the fu ck have you played this much? Slow time at school, lost my job, peer pressure from GB team to be on for matches. |
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Nov 21, 2012 12:00:51 GMT -5
My condolences buddy. Economic troubles everywhere.
I'll give your gun a try after I get my crossbow/ballistic knife gold.
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Post by Voice from the Basement on Nov 21, 2012 13:51:49 GMT -5
M8A1's burst delay still exists and sometimes I find myself wasting time for nonexistent burst. That's why auto mode is much better. And it's not so OP as aidsaidsaids says cause it has the worst range among the ARs and a high, but very easy to control, recoil. Yes, Type 25, compared to M8A1, totally sucks, but there are some other good ARs in this game.
As for me, SMR's recoil makes range shooting kinda hard, so you need RDS and Grip to compensate its recoil and not the best IS, and for me it means wasting of attachments.
I have a lot of free time but I haven't wasted it all for CoD – I've reached 55th level only today (I had no double XP, though). I cannot see how can you play this game all day long. 2–3 hours is more than enough, after this time even a new CoD becomes boring.
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Post by -3055- on Nov 21, 2012 14:22:50 GMT -5
speaking of target finder, what's the advantage of IR scope over target finder? just seeing through smoke? target finder seems to have the same effect and is also countered by the same perk. Unless someone is simply headglitching and only the IR can pick up on that, I don't really see the advantage of using the IR. Again, assuming the target finder only detects enemies when their torso is showing. Which, I believe, is not true.
Reduced recoil on LMGs, perhaps?
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Nov 21, 2012 14:25:04 GMT -5
I was interested about the reduced recoil bit too....
It could be argued that TF can be distracting...that's about it...
Also IR is great against Smoke spammers on B flags....
idk TF is still my favorite.
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Post by seanbateman on Nov 21, 2012 14:31:46 GMT -5
It is funny people on this board say the M27 is useless just because of some of its stats, when I'm guessing by the time this game has been out for awhile it will be a gun that people complain about because of its overuse due to it being the new ACR. And yes the M8A1 is sick even as a burst gun.
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Post by I Am Hollywood5 on Nov 22, 2012 2:23:24 GMT -5
Maybe the M8A1 is a beast, but I'll be furious if they nerf it without also nerfing the full-auto FAL first.
I don't really see a problem with the M8A1 SF. Since it costs 2 points and an attachment slot, shouldn't it, by definition, slightly outclass the Type 25? I honestly enjoy it more in burst mode though...
But I know it wont be long before everybody is crying and Treyarch caves in and appeases the angry mob. So until then, I'm going to use the sh*t out of it.
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bravo2zero
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Post by bravo2zero on Nov 22, 2012 2:52:13 GMT -5
Sandy Ravage has recently done a tube video praising the SMR with full auto.
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Zero IX
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Post by Zero IX on Nov 22, 2012 8:10:57 GMT -5
Maybe the M8A1 is a beast, but I'll be furious if they nerf it without also nerfing the full-auto FAL first. I don't really see a problem with the M8A1 SF. Since it costs 2 points and an attachment slot, shouldn't it, by definition, slightly outclass the Type 25? I honestly enjoy it more in burst mode though... But I know it wont be long before everybody is crying and Treyarch caves in and appeases the angry mob. So until then, I'm going to use the sh*t out of it. Here's hoping Vanderdork will be true to his word and not nerf anything that isn't a statistically significant outlier... |
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Post by I Am Hollywood5 on Nov 22, 2012 8:11:35 GMT -5
Sandy Ravage has recently done a tube video praising the SMR with full auto. Yeah, he went pretty beast mode with it. But let's be honest, the guy could probably make even the Executioner look OP. The stats still show the FAL to be the better full-auto of the 2 |
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GoHarvard
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It's not that serious.
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Post by GoHarvard on Nov 22, 2012 12:36:06 GMT -5
Well I've been making use of the SWAT. I have over 850 kills with it. SF is very useful, I switch to full-auto when I go indoors or know an enemy is around a corner etc. Burst mode is extremely effective for long range kills, like dealing with snipers on Carrier.
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Post by jackaltornmoons on Nov 22, 2012 13:34:52 GMT -5
How the fu ck have you played this much? To be fair, his score per minute is awesome. Pretty much every game I've played with him, he's had the top score by at least 1000. |
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Post by Voice from the Basement on Nov 22, 2012 15:02:37 GMT -5
Well I've been making use of the SWAT. I have over 850 kills with it. SF is very useful, I switch to full-auto when I go indoors or know an enemy is around a corner etc. Burst mode is extremely effective for long range kills, like dealing with snipers on Carrier. As for me (I play on PC), I haven't met anyone who was acting like a pro with SMR or SWAT-556 – I saw only a few newbies who was testing what do these guns mean. Maybe I should finally check myself these guns + M27 (the only locked ARs for me), maybe it will show me I'm not right now and you are right about them?.. |
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GoHarvard
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It's not that serious.
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Post by GoHarvard on Nov 22, 2012 17:45:59 GMT -5
I don't have access to the M8A1 yet, but I did see someone with a 2.85 KDR with it today. He had over 1600 kills. Unfortunately he rage quit after I did a 180 and panic fired him with a FAL while he was spraying bullets at me. Latency really is king, the best weapons can't really make up for it IMO  Xbox btw. |
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arcanine2009
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Post by arcanine2009 on Nov 23, 2012 0:29:18 GMT -5
It is funny people on this board say the M27 is useless just because of some of its stats, when I'm guessing by the time this game has been out for awhile it will be a gun that people complain about because of its overuse due to it being the new ACR. And yes the M8A1 is sick even as a burst gun. M27 doesn't excel in range or TTK over any other AR, and any auto gun in general. While the MW3 ACR does--and at long distance. M27=nerfed version of M4A1. If the M27 had the same RoF as M4A1(around 800), it would have been a usable gun. But now it's pretty much.. IMO, the MW3/BO2 Dragunov of the ARs. |
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