Bungie's Destiny

[wings]

A Horde mode against the Hive I assume. They might have to invent a load of turrets to help. A silverback would be nice. Need another idea from another shooter.

[Dumien]

So, alright. This might not be an awful thing. Look at what Fallout did for its last two releases in addition to borderlands.

Add a new map (new planet) and increase the level cap. This keeps players happier...longer. In Destiny;s case you have the opportunity to release new plannets, new moons, new satalites, etc.

Moons will probably be a majority of the DLC.

[wittyscorpion]

We can compare this with Borderlands 2:

1) Here is Borderlands 2's world map: gfxuploader.com/images/slmc3fnt5j2ngdqc3ye.jpg . I think that it is safe to say Destiny's world is much larger.

2) Without considering DLCs, players play through Borderlands world 3 times: Normal, TVHM, UVHM, each offers a significantly different experience. The world is the same, what's different are a) enemy traits, b) enemy behaviors, and c) strategy of what weapons/abilities/strategies to use against the enemies.

Destiny is a great student of Borderlands 2, so I expect something similar. In particular, there is this significant aspect of the game that we did not even have had a chance to experience: the mysterious elemental damage types of Void/Solar/Arc(?). Against higher level enemies we can expect "resist" and "immune" to pop up if wrong weapons are used.

3) So far we know there are 2 subclasses, one we got to play at level 1, and one available at level 15. If we are looking at level cap = 30, then it is reasonable to assume that there is at least one more. In other words, we can play through high level story missions, strikes, and raids 3 x 3 = 9 times just with different sub classes. Not to mention for each exotic/legendary weapon/gear we acquire, there are lots to do to fully upgrade (this is something unique in Destiny and not available in Borderlands).

4) When all PvE activities are exhausted, we can take the stuff we have to go into Crucible. Imagine how hilarious the Iron Banner would be if a whole bunch of level 30s with legendary gear are trying to crash each other . We thought Hand Cannons are UP, but who knows what a legendary one can do...

At this point: I am more worried about being consumed by this game than not having enough content

[mannon]

Depends on the Halo. I recall in Halo 1 the shotgun wrecked on any interior areas where you could get in range. Of course the maps ranged from interior mazes to Blood Gulch (which was a massive open map with two bases and some caves and cliffs. The open area had some hills, but really it was open as fuck to anybody with high ground).

I don't know about the others really I think Halo 2 shotgun got nerfed, but you also couldn't dual wield it with a plasma pistol so in MP it wasn't great for one two combo, though you once somebody's shields were down it was lethal and I think it was decent at close range just not optimal. But that was so long ago I dunno.

I never did Halo 3 MP and I only did 1 game of MP on Reach, though I did play the fuck out of it. I wasn't too into the shotgun in Reach. It was just too short ranged for my needs in most places. I prefered DMR which you can use at surprisingly close range.

I don't recall the name of the green shotgun I was using. It was the only special weapon I really liked, though I only played PvE and even then I did have to get pretty close with it, but that's exactly what I used it for. Anything outside nipple touch range I could handle with my scout rifle and a few grenades, and supers, and I like to mix in some melee's especially on weaker or damaged enemies.


"DenKirson Bros" sounds good to me. Actually I like that better than "Forums". I don't care if it's less descriptive, I doubt anybody's gonna see our clan tag and go find the forums just because of that. It becomes more of an in-joke leaving people wondering who Den Kirson is and why he has so many self professed bros. ;3

[mannon]

Jul 28, 2014 13:44:39 GMT -5 wittyscorpion said:

I was told that this is a good shotgun:

Actually that was the shotgun I was using. Nice. I got it as a reward for the moon mission, then upgraded it fully by turning in rewards and spin metal. The attack goes up to 62 fully upgraded, though that only matters for PvE. I never bother ADS with it, just rush in shoot, melee, if it's still alive melee again or back away and mebbe throw a 'nade or switch back to scout rifle.

[mannon]

All the white hand cannons I tried were complete trash, but the Searcher MK. 37 green was fun. Quite powerful and fairly easy to handle. Scout rifle still has more utility, but it was fun.

[GodMars]

An MMO veteran's perspective for you folks:

- White gear is barely more than vendor trash. It's not anything you want to use for very long, and you usually only find yourself equipping it during your first few levels.
- Green gear isn't great, but it's perfectly acceptable for leveling.
- Blue gear is solid, and you want to equip this stuff as much as possible.
- Purple gear is high end, and if you want to run with the big dogs you better be using it.

The gear you used in the beta was fairly weak.

[mannon]

Yeah that's definitely true. We really didn't get far in the beta. There were quite a few enemies that were completely unkillable at level 8 and I know some of them were level 20. And we haven't even touched the rest of the solar system yet other than a quick peek at the moon.

If they keep the Crucible the way it was, though then there could well be exceptions where lower tier weapons could outperform better gear, though I think the upgrades largely make up for that if they don't decide to disable those in Crucible as well. Of course I'm not talking about Iron Banner.

[mannon]

Jul 28, 2014 15:34:46 GMT -5 wittyscorpion said:

On a related topic, Just out of curiosity a question to all bros: how many hours have you played beta?

Me: www.bungie.net/en/Profile/1/4611686018429626853

1) Human Hunter: 26 hours, 35 Crucible games played including Iron Banner, K/D = 1.13 (also checkout the legendary cloak and the wolf emblem I got from Iron Banner )
2) Awoken Warlock: 11.5 hours, 22 Crucible games played, K/D = 1.23 (higher K/D because I played this second, Rare eagle banner that cost 2000+ glimmer...)
3) Exo Titan: 5 hours (only did story and strike missions to reach level 8)

Total: 42.5 hours

1) Awoken Warlock: 8:25 (Played first because didn't think I'd like Warlock, actually I really do.)
2) Exo Titan: 5:48 (Played next to get out of way because thought it would be dull, kinda was, though less stompy than I thought and thus even more dull. Not my cuppa.)
3) Human Hunter: 7:26 (Saved for last thinking I shouldn't jump strait to Hunter and join the herd, but still really liked it.)

Total: 21:39

I didn't have time to play enough. Didn't get to finish the last story mission or Devil's Lair on my Titan, which also means he missed the last of his golden chests, but oh well. I also didn't even touch Crucible.

I'm split on Warlock and Hunter so I'll probably play them both. I love the Warlock grenades, and the super is pretty cool and more reliable for me, also gliding is the most useful vertical technique in many ways at least at the levels I got to. Hunter double jump can't get as high as gliding and you can only use it once so you either boost your jump or prevent fall damage. But with glide you can do both, just switch it on or off whenever. On the other hand I find double jump more useful for juking and dodging in combat, but maybe that's just me. With glide if I use if to dodge I generally have to turn it off again or I'll go up too high and be an easy target floating down so it's an extra button press. Triple jump. when unlocked, could be amazing though. I kinda like the Warlock melee as well. I found it quite satisfying, and the melee attack that boosts super is very cool... but not as cool as the Hunter's knife, though I'm kinda shit with it. Over all I don't know any specific reason why, but I think Hunter is my favorite, and it's not even the golden gun. I'm not totally on board with golden gun, just because it's very easy to miss and missing a shot with it hurts my soul. On the other hand the Warlock's super has a nice AOE and it can be upgraded to have a vortex effect like the grenades. Very cool.


Part of me feels like just transferring my favorite weapons between characters when I switch and in fact, (other than first few levels of story mission grinding) that's what I did. Once I was high enough level to actually share equipment I consolidated it down to a single optimized set. Though I still kept at least one weapon of each type, or a couple if I could justify them as sufficiently unique. I definitely did not bother having a different scout rifle for each character or anything like that though.

I think I will probably come up with a couple of complimentary weapon sets and split them between my characters, though. Having to trade things via the vault over and over is annoying since you can't access it from orbit and characters always start in orbit when you change. That means every character change requires two trips to the tower that I may have avoided otherwise, and that's assuming I don't forget something like my seeds and have to do it over again...

I think I'll probably let my Hunter handle scout rifles and hand cannons which seems befitting the class (or is it too stereotypical?) and prolly use the rest on my Warlock or something. I dunno yet, because whichever gets the precision primaries probably is getting as shotgun or fusion rifle special instead of sniper rifle, otherwise it's just too much long range specialization. Well, I'll have to see where synergy lies best in that regard. Maybe specializing in long range on both would be a good thing. Hand cannon's and scout rifles can still be used in pretty close quarters with hipfire and between melee and grenades I'm not sure you need a short range backup.

I just think it'll be easier if I keep certain weapon sets on certain characters, plus then they only need armor pieces with certain bonuses and not others. Much to think about once we hit release... it's going to be a long month.

[wittyscorpion]

Jul 28, 2014 22:42:37 GMT -5 GodMars said:

An MMO veteran's perspective for you folks:

- White gear is barely more than vendor trash. It's not anything you want to use for very long, and you usually only find yourself equipping it during your first few levels.
- Green gear isn't great, but it's perfectly acceptable for leveling.
- Blue gear is solid, and you want to equip this stuff as much as possible.
- Purple gear is high end, and if you want to run with the big dogs you better be using it.

The gear you used in the beta was fairly weak.

While we are talking about this: Destiny's top dog is gold gear, aka exotic (while = common, green = uncommon, blue = rare, purple = legendary)

[Dumien]

Isn't exotic gear just "different" as in has a different thing going on. Similar to how Borderlands legendary weapons generally had a special ability.

I think you can only have one exotic weapon in your loadout at one time too.

Also, my playtime totaled

roughly 31 hours. 22 on Titan. 5 on Warlock. 4 on Hunter. All three made it to 8.

[wittyscorpion]

Jul 28, 2014 23:31:36 GMT -5 mannon said:

Yeah that's definitely true. We really didn't get far in the beta. There were quite a few enemies that were completely unkillable at level 8 and I know some of them were level 20. And we haven't even touched the rest of the solar system yet other than a quick peek at the moon.

If they keep the Crucible the way it was, though then there could well be exceptions where lower tier weapons could outperform better gear, though I think the upgrades largely make up for that if they don't decide to disable those in Crucible as well. Of course I'm not talking about Iron Banner.

Based on what I read: while regular Crucible will normalize weapon's damage and armor's defense, I speculate it will still honor many of the gears' traits. As a result, an exotic gear may still have significant advantage over lower level ones.

If that's the case (keep in mind that this is my personal speculation), how would that be fair? You may ask. Bungie hinted that the following aspects will help:

1) Matchmaking will strive to match players fairly;

2) Incentives for players with poorer gear: better chance to earn greater loot. Say you got beaten badly by a player who has stronger gear, if you manage to kill him a few time, you will be rewarded with a sick loot for efforts;

If they really make this happen, I for one would be interested in playing it both for having a chance to use my exotic gear to pwn lower level players, and as a way to earn sicker loot by sacrificing K/D

[wittyscorpion]

Regarding the 3 classes, I played extensively with Hunter and Warlock. My likes:

Hunter feels sexy:

a) that knifing melee, throwing knife melee ability, and Golden Gun (when using Golden Gun, keep in mind most of the times you don't have to ADS, it is still very accurate. I recommend only ADS when you have the luxury to align your shot) , all feel extremely satisfying when getting a kill;

b) double jump is more suitable for PvP action, it is snappy and don't put your character in slow motion, which can be devastating in PvP.

Warlock's ease of use in Crucible:

a) Grenades are strong: the first one provide area denial, the second one (swarm grenade) aggressively seek enemies, feels stronger than Hunter's equivalent;

b) melee and melee ability does the same motion so no need to think extra hard

c) melee ability speeds up grenades

d) glide does give you better control when you are going to difficult to reach places. However it also makes you go slow and become an easy target. If you get shot while gliding, remember to press the jump button again to immediately drop to the ground.

e) Most importantly, Nova Bomb is superb:

i) can take out group of players (difficult with Golden Gun);
ii) can use on opponents either close or at distance (difficult with Fist of Havoc);
iii) can aim low and high (can't with Fist of Havoc);
iv) has lasting debuff after used, often taking out enemies who are dumb enough to walk into the affected area;
v) grant you split second invincibility during activation (Gold Gun does not);

I'll let Dumien speak of Titan because that's his baby

[mannon]

Just peeked at the abilities for the level 15 subclasses that were locked out and I think there are some real game changers in there, both for PvE and PvP. This if pretty exciting, it'll mean even greater variety of things going on as well as things to do. I really want to play both Hunter and Warlock subclasses at least, and who knows. I may make a stab at the Titan again.

There's really quite a bit to eat up my free time. Especially if the level cap really is 30 instead of 20. FML!

[mannon]

Yeah when it comes to Hunter vs Warlock there are so many things I can point to on Warlock and say, "this is great!"

With Hunter is really is more, "this is sexy". ;3

[wittyscorpion]

Oh, I forgot to mention the single most important tip in both PvP and PvE: use slide to get behind cover!

Just like CoD:Ghosts, press print and then crouch will make your character slide. Not only does this make you difficult to hit while in motion, it also drops your head lower. This will throw your opponent off and give you precious time.

On the same note: when you are in a strafe fight with an opponent, other dodge left and right you should also think about crouch. I have not mastered this, but I noticed advanced players doing it. You do need to use claw (or have a scuff controller?) to free the index finger for this task.

[Dumien]

Haha. Yeah. I'm really pumped for the defensive version of the titan. Support has always been my favorite thing to play in MMOs, so I'll probably be taking to sunsinger hunter and the defender titan. If there was a healer I would go for that character.

The offensive titan felt really slow at first. The streamer I watched picked titan and I thought I would hate it based off of his gameplay. It seemed as someone said earlier "soldiery." This led me to pick it up last. However, once I got used to it I fell in love. The jetpack is very easy to control and verticality is very important in PvE. Once I got the boost to height it got even better.

The ultimate is fantastic for area denial in the same fashion as warlock, except I've found it far easier to aim. You can also use it to extend your jump (effectively a triple jump) as shown in the video I posted a while back. It is also good for defense since you can damage enemies through walls...activate it before they come around the corner. A final note... I upgraded it so it did pulse damage even after the initial slam. This got me a few kills I wouldn't have gotten otherwise.

The flashbang is also incredibly useful. I experimented with the sticky pulse grenade, but it didn't do nearly enough damage unless I was fighting a boss like the spider tank which would take damage in multiple areas from every pulse. Definitely something you can switch up on the fly for different situations.

The offensive titan seems like a CQC version of the Void Warlock.

[wittyscorpion]

Jul 29, 2014 0:41:40 GMT -5 Dumien said:

Haha. Yeah. I'm really pumped for the defensive version of the titan. Support has always been my favorite thing to play in MMOs, so I'll probably be taking to sunsinger hunter and the defender titan. If there was a healer I would go for that character.

The offensive titan felt really slow at first. The streamer I watched picked titan and I thought I would hate it based off of his gameplay. It seemed as someone said earlier "soldiery." This led me to pick it up last. However, once I got used to it I fell in how. The jetpack is very easy to control and verticality is very important in PvE. Once I got the boost to height it got even better.

The ultimate is fantastic for area denial in the same fashion as warlock, except I've found it far easier to aim. You can also use it to extend your jump (effectively a triple jump) as shown in the video I posted a while back. It is also good for defense since you can damage enemies through walls...activate it before they come around the corner. A final note... I upgraded it so it did pulse damage even after the initial slam. This got me a few kills I wouldn't have gotten otherwise.

The flashbang is also incredibly useful. I experimented with the sticky pulse grenade, but it didn't do nearly enough damage unless I was fighting a boss like the spider tank which would take damage in multiple areas from every pulse. Definitely something you can switch up on the fly for different situations.

The offensive titan seems like a CQC version of the Void Warlock.

Yeah, the grenade I hate the most as recipient is the flashbang. It immediately takes out everything visual for significant amount of time, pretty much spells death if you got hit by it.

Fist of Havoc does greater amount of damage that Nova Bomb in its effective area. Best thing to use for clearing out an entire capping party. If you can successfully do that, you will also drop a whole bunch of orbs for your friends...

[Dumien]

Jul 29, 2014 0:47:46 GMT -5 wittyscorpion said:

Fist of Havoc does greater amount of damage that Nova Bomb in its effective area. Best thing to use for clearing out an entire capping party. If you can successfully do that, you will also drop a whole bunch of orbs for your friends...

This is a good one to watch for that. This is Witty comboing the hell out of a boss with his Titan

[wittyscorpion]

Jul 29, 2014 0:54:00 GMT -5 Dumien said:

Jul 29, 2014 0:47:46 GMT -5 wittyscorpion said:

Fist of Havoc does greater amount of damage that Nova Bomb in its effective area. Best thing to use for clearing out an entire capping party. If you can successfully do that, you will also drop a whole bunch of orbs for your friends...

This is a good one to watch for that. This is Witty comboing the hell out of a boss with his Titan

Oh, yeah, that's a fun boss to fight. He takes an insane amount of damage, good thing that his attack is not very strong. Great one for target practice of using everything you have at your disposal

[mannon]

The Sunsinger Warlock and Defender Titan subclasses do both look like great support classes with their abilities to grant bonuses to teammates and some other interesting skills besides. Sunsingers activating super from death and being revived by it! Defender sprint shield and making orbs via heavy weapon usage. Sunsingers hovering briefly in air sounds cool too. Plus both their supers, just wow.

Bladedancer Hunter still sounds more soloish, but more CQB, which makes sense. Hunters are supposed to be more soloish. They could also be sneaky as hell with that crouch invis.

Bottom line if this game only had the 3 subclasses we played in beta I would still be excited for the release, but with these others I'm really really eager for it now.

[wittyscorpion]

Jul 29, 2014 9:53:58 GMT -5 mannon said:

The Sunsinger Warlock and Defender Titan subclasses do both look like great support classes with their abilities to grant bonuses to teammates and some other interesting skills besides. Sunsingers activating super from death and being revived by it! Defender sprint shield and making orbs via heavy weapon usage. Sunsingers hovering briefly in air sounds cool too. Plus both their supers, just wow.

Bladedancer Hunter still sounds more soloish, but more CQB, which makes sense. Hunters are supposed to be more soloish. They could also be sneaky as hell with that crouch invis.

Bottom line if this game only had the 3 subclasses we played in beta I would still be excited for the release, but with these others I'm really really eager for it now.

Yeah, subclasses are exciting . To make an analogy, subclass is like skill tree in Borderlands.

I am really hoping for a set of 3, because:

a) Destiny has 3 races;
b) Destiny has 3 classes;
c) Borderlands has 3 skill trees per character;

So it is reasonable to expect that Destiny has 3 subclasses per class, especially with all the evidence pointing to a 30ish level cap. First at level 1 - offensive, second at level 15 - defensive, third at level 29? - magical? , At that level, we really need something awesome to fight those omnipotent bosses in Raid...

[wittyscorpion]

This fan made Destiny beta montage is a great visual presentation of what I mean by "Sniper Rifle in Destiny is addictive"



SR is especially deadly when your team has the map control. The opponents will come to you in predicable lanes, and that's when the slaughter with SR and MG begins...

and just how darn sexy the Hunter is with the knife, throwing knife and Golden Gun. Also note that Golden Gun does NOT need ADS for the kill, unless the target if far away (in which case you have plenty of time to ADS and line up your shot)

[wings]

MG is still poo. The recoil of an SMG with rapid fire, the magazine size of an AR (at times) and the reload time of an LMG.

[wittyscorpion]

Jul 29, 2014 14:38:59 GMT -5 wings said:

MG is still poo. The recoil of an SMG with rapid fire, the magazine size of an AR (at times) and the reload time of an LMG.

By poo you mean UP? If yes, you must have been using a crappy one. In Crucible a decent MG tears your opponent apart before they can even exhaust 2/3 of your shield. Reload is not a problem because you only get 1.25 clip from a heavy ammo drop anyway, and 1 clip is often enough to kill a string of enemies without reloading.

When I got heavy ammo, I expect to get at least 3 kills or otherwise I will be disappointed about myself

[wings]

Jul 29, 2014 14:42:52 GMT -5 wittyscorpion said:

Jul 29, 2014 14:38:59 GMT -5 wings said:

MG is still poo. The recoil of an SMG with rapid fire, the magazine size of an AR (at times) and the reload time of an LMG.

By poo you mean UP? If yes, you must have been using a crappy one. In Crucible a decent MG tears your opponent apart before they can even exhaust 2/3 of your shield. Reload is not a problem because you only get 1.25 clip from a heavy ammo drop anyway, and 1 clip is often enough to kill a string of enemies without reloading.

When I got heavy ammo, I expect to get at least 3 kills or otherwise I will be disappointed about myself

They appeared to be designed for Crucible rather than the other play lists.

[wittyscorpion]

Jul 29, 2014 15:11:48 GMT -5 wings said:

Jul 29, 2014 14:42:52 GMT -5 wittyscorpion said:

By poo you mean UP? If yes, you must have been using a crappy one. In Crucible a decent MG tears your opponent apart before they can even exhaust 2/3 of your shield. Reload is not a problem because you only get 1.25 clip from a heavy ammo drop anyway, and 1 clip is often enough to kill a string of enemies without reloading.

When I got heavy ammo, I expect to get at least 3 kills or otherwise I will be disappointed about myself

They appeared to be designed for Crucible rather than the other play lists.

Well, in PvE I love using them when trying to take out mid level enemies and large group of enemies. The DPS is significantly better than all the primaries.

[TheHawkNY]

The 96 round LMGs have high recoil and high firerates. The 48 round ones have manageable recoil and great damage. I agree with witty, they tear things up in the Crucible. In PvE, they're also good for when enemies are weakened - for example, when you knock down spider tank and his orange part is exposed.

[wittyscorpion]

It does look like the MG's crit hit multiplier is significantly smaller than Scout Rifle, and of course Sniper Rifle. For taking down bosses Scout Rifle + Sniper Rifle + Super is the way to go, at least in this limited beta.

[wings]

Why do the Hive and the Fallen fight each other when they both get powers from the Darkness?