probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Dec 24, 2013 5:18:04 GMT -5
Table of Contents- Notes
- Plots Sorted By Weapon
- Plots Sorted by Attachment Selection
- Requests
- "Frequently" Asked Questions
Notes- Each plot represents 10 000 simulations of the weapon being fired in a 15-round burst (or lower if the gun has a lower capacity). Shots 1 - 3 are in blue, 4 - 6 are in green, 7 - 9 are in yellow, 10 - 12 are in orange and shots 13 - 15 are in red. Grid lines are spaced one degree apart on all plots - this is so you can directly compare them - and the axes indicating zero degrees are drawn in yellow.
- Only attachment combinations which materially affect accuracy statistics (ViewKick, GunKick (while ADS), Idle (while ADS), Bobbing (while moving), FireTime, FireType, BurstDelay and Spread) are featured. If a weapon with a particular combination you're looking for isn't here, then you may assume it behaves like the stock weapon.
- When reading the attachment combination, "+" means "and" and "/" means "or." For example, "Grip + Tracker/Thermal" means the weapon is equipped with the Grip and Thermal, or the Grip and Tracker. Any combination using "/" indicates that using either attachment in place of the other will not change any relevant accuracy statistic.
- For organizational purposes, in the "By Weapon" section, the FireType modifiers are considered separate weapons. In the "By Attachment Selection" section, they are (properly) considered attachments. Finally, "Integrated" attachments are not regarded as attachments here; their "effect" on accuracy is incorporated into the corresponding stock weapon.
- For Idle and Bobbing, the first shot is assumed to be dead-center, after which the weapon follows the Idle/Bobbing animation starting from a randomly chosen point. For Bobbing (not applicable to "Stationary" plots), "Moving" in the plot title indicates the player is moving forward.
- For semi-automatic weapons, the firerate is assumed to be either the firecap itself or 625 RPM, whichever is lower.
- For the burst-fire weapons, the actual delay between the last shot of the previous burst and the next shot is assumed to be the greater of the following:
- 0.096 seconds, less the time since the last trigger pull (assumes the player cannot consistently pull the trigger faster than 625 RPM, the same assumption made for semi-automatic weapons), or
- The actual burst delay of the weapon plus the fireTime.
- The accuracy score stated in each plot is a measure of how far from the origin the weapon will take on average over a 15-round burst, not the "size" of the plot.
- I am currently taking requests for plots. Be reasonable: I won't do another hundred or so plots to fill a request or fulfill one where the change to accuracy is miniscule (e.g., stance differences for Shotguns). If you want something plotted, you need to specify (at minimum):
- The weapon(s) and attachment/perk selection
- The player's Stance
- Whether the player is moving or stationary (for incorporation of Bobbing)
- Whether the player is ADS or Hipfiring
- Whether the player is Gasping or not (applicable to Sniper Rifles while ADS only)
Plots Sorted By WeaponAssault RiflesSC-2010SA-805AK-12 (Pre 28/01/14 Patch) AK-12 (Post 28/01/14 Patch) FADRemington R5MSBS (Pre 28/01/14 Patch) MSBS (Post 28/01/14 Patch) Honey BadgerARX-160 MaverickSubmachine GunsBizon (Pre 05/09/2014 Patch) Bizon (Post 05/09/2014 Patch) CBJ-MSVector CRBVeprK7MTAR-XRipper ( Default Mode, Assault Rifle Mode) Light Machine GunsAmeliM27-IARLSATChain SAWMarksman RiflesMR-28MK14 EBRIA-2SVUSniper RiflesUSRL115LynxVKS Maverick A2ShotgunsBulldogFP6MTS-255Tac 12HandgunsM9A1MP-443 GrachP226.44 MagnumPDWGold PDWKillstreaksMinigun
Plots Sorted By Attachment SelectionNo AttachmentsOne Attachment3-Round BurstACOGAny Other Optic (Marksman Rifles)Chrome LinedFull-AutoGripRapid FireSemi-AutoSlugsTracker/ThermalTwo Attachments3-Round Burst + Any Other Optic (Marksman Rifles)3-Round Burst + Grip3-Round Burst + Tracker/ThermalACOG + Chrome LinedFull-Auto + GripFull-Auto + Tracker/ThermalGrip + Rapid FireGrip + SlugsGrip + Tracker/ThermalRapid Fire + ThermalSemi-Auto + GripSemi-Auto + Tracker/ThermalThree Attachments3-Round Burst + Grip + Tracker/ThermalFull-Auto + Grip + Tracker/ThermalGrip + Rapid Fire + Tracker/ThermalSemi-Auto + Grip + Tracker/Thermal
RequestsMR-28 Fired at 550 RPM (adw1983) Bulldog (Under-Barrel) fired at 300 RPM (Dumien) AK-12 and M27-IAR (600 RPM); FAD, ARX-160, Vepr, K7 (720 RPM) (TheHawkNY)
"Frequently" Asked QuestionsQ: Are higher accuracy scores better or worse? A: Regrettably, worse. They should have properly been called "inaccuracy" scores, since they measure deflection (in degrees). That was admittedly a goof. Q: Why do some of the really big plots have a lower accuracy score than some of the smaller ones? A: The accuracy score is a measure of how far away from your original point of aim your weapon will take you on average over the 15-round burst. This means that size is not the determining factor of the score, but how far on average your aim is moved. The Lynx (the weapon with the worst score) is the best example of this; consecutive shots in quick succession with this weapon take you away from your point of aim very quickly, though its plot covers a moderately sized area. Q: I thought Drift0r/another YouTuber disproved the myth that the Tracker Sight reduced recoil. Why do you have plots for it? A: Yes, it's true that the Tracker sight has no material effect on recoil. However both, the Tracker and Hybrid Thermal Sights reduce the idle amount of a given weapon by half. Q: Why doesn't the Variable Magnification Reflex sight feature in the plots? I get less sway when I use the lower-magnification setting! A: You don't. The lower magnification merely reduces the appearance of idle sway and therefore does not materially affect accuracy - its benefit is only to the user in helping them acquire a target. See Marvel4's Ghosts Attachment Stats for more information if you'd like to know which attachments affect which accuracy statistics. Q: The guns that always recover their recoil before the next shot (e.g. USR, L115, etc.) have a blue square in the center of the plot. What gives? A: This is because the plots incorporate idle into the simulations. Without going into great detail about idle itself, it suffices to say that idle operates on the yaw and pitch (read: horizontal and vertical dimensions) independently. Hence, the squarish plot. (If the idle was large enough in any plot, you could see the wavy pattern that idle actually makes. As it is, no weapon produces idle large enough to show this on plots at the given resolution. See this Wikipedia article for more on these wavy patterns if you are interested in the technical details. I do eventually plan on doing a full post on how idle works and what adsIdleAmount and adsIdleSpeed do precisely.) Q: I don't get what you did with the attachments for the Marksman Rifles. What's going on? A: The default scope ("No Attachments") gives you -15% ViewKick relative to the base values, and using any other optic will cause you to be using the full kick values for the gun. But because the Hybrid Thermal/Tracker sights reduce idle by half, they, too, must be separated out from the other options. So there are three plots per rifle: "No Attachments" (-15% ViewKick), Tracker/Thermal (-50% IdleAmount) and "Any Other Optic" (no modifications). Q: Can I use your plots in my video/forum post/whatever? A: Yes, so long as you do not try to take credit for them. ("Hey, I made up these plots of the gun and I think...," etc. Mentioning that they're mine would be nice, too.)
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Post by -3055- on Dec 24, 2013 20:03:25 GMT -5
Noice.
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Post by karlstyles on Dec 24, 2013 22:43:18 GMT -5
Thanks.
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Post by TheHawkNY on Dec 25, 2013 13:00:26 GMT -5
Awesome, thanks bro!
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probaddie
True Bro
You're triggering my intelligence
Posts: 11,043
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Post by probaddie on Dec 26, 2013 10:11:01 GMT -5
Updated "'Frequently' Asked Questions" and finished uploading "Plots Sorted by Attachment Selection."
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Post by Voice from the Basement on Dec 28, 2013 6:29:03 GMT -5
Seems like LMGs gain ViewKick reduction if crouched or prone. LSAT's and M27-IAR's (with Foregrip both) recoil is nearly non-existent while shooting prone, and it makes me think the reduction is actually big. As for MRs, I see no difference between the stances (using Burst Fire MR-28 without default scope but with Focus for the best result).
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Post by -3055- on Dec 28, 2013 10:48:45 GMT -5
I don't know about recoil but there's a noticeable decrease in sway whilr prone for DMRs
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probaddie
True Bro
You're triggering my intelligence
Posts: 11,043
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Post by probaddie on Dec 28, 2013 12:55:42 GMT -5
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probaddie
True Bro
You're triggering my intelligence
Posts: 11,043
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Post by probaddie on Dec 28, 2013 14:50:24 GMT -5
Seems like LMGs gain ViewKick reduction if crouched or prone. LSAT's and M27-IAR's (with Foregrip both) recoil is nearly non-existent while shooting prone, and it makes me think the reduction is actually big. As for MRs, I see no difference between the stances (using Burst Fire MR-28 without default scope but with Focus for the best result). I agree with you on the MRs. I tested the MR-28, and I think my first trial with the MR-28 while prone had more recoil than the control trial I did while standing. As for LMGs: do these plots match what you experienced? I used the same reductions that were used from Modern Warfare 3 in those plots, and they seem reasonable to me. I'm certain the reductions for Sniper Rifles are different, but I think I found a way to test and measure the difference. The Lynx has a minMagnitude of 100. (Marvel4 decided not to include this number in his chart.) This means that the total magnitude of any kick is guaranteed to be at least 100. By magnitude, I mean the overall speed of the kick, i.e. Sqrt[yawVelocity^2 + pitchVelocity^2]. But because the Lynx at most can have Sqrt[50^2 + 50^2] = 70.71 deg/s of velocity without the minMagnitude taking effect, we must always get a kick whose magnitude is equal to 100. Stance must affect this number; if it did not, then the Lynx would always have its kick magnitude bumped up to 100 and would receive no stance benefit at all. With this in mind, we can measure the magnitude of the kicks received by the Lynx while crouching and prone and compare the results to the base value of 100: Standing (Control)Data: Resolution: 1024 x 768 px FoV (Scope): 15 deg Framerate: 60 fps (0.01667s per frame) Yaw Deflection (1 frame): 73 px Pitch Deflection (1 frame): 85 px Calcualtion: Using basic trigonometry, we have that where d is the "distance" from the wall and y is the yaw deflection (in degrees). Solving for d and rearranging, we get which gives an angular velocity of 1.075 deg/0.01667s = 64.35 deg/s. Similarly, the pitch velocity can be measured to be 75.11 deg/s. This gives a total magnitude of Sqrt[(64.35 deg/s)^2 + (75.11 deg/s)^2] = 98.90 deg/s, a relative error of 1.1%. CrouchingUsing those numbers and the same method as above, we arrive at yaw and pitch velocities of 43.30 deg/s and 63.63 deg/s, respectively. These give a total magnitude of 76.96 deg/s; this suggests a multiplier of 0.75 (-25% reduction) is in effect. (I also did a trial where I obtained a magnitude of ~74 deg/s.) ProneUsing those numbers and the same method as above, we arrive at yaw and pitch velocities of 30.05 deg/s and 45.07 deg/s, respectively. These give a total magnitude of 54.16 deg/s; this suggests a multiplier of 0.55 (-45% reduction) is in effect. I plotted the Lynx assuming those reductions and can't see any obvious error: I know these are rough estimates at best, but I think it's probably all we can really hope for at this point. If anyone sees a clear error in anything I've done please speak up.
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Post by Voice from the Basement on Dec 29, 2013 14:43:04 GMT -5
As for LMGs: do these plots match what you experienced? I used the same reductions that were used from Modern Warfare 3 in those plots, and they seem reasonable to me. I'm certain the reductions for Sniper Rifles are different, but I think I found a way to test and measure the difference. For 15 round bursts they seem true. Although I meant the "kick" itself seems to be visually lower – maybe that's the deceiving of my eyes because of high Recenterspeed.
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probaddie
True Bro
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Posts: 11,043
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Post by probaddie on Dec 29, 2013 22:49:13 GMT -5
As for LMGs: do these plots match what you experienced? I used the same reductions that were used from Modern Warfare 3 in those plots, and they seem reasonable to me. I'm certain the reductions for Sniper Rifles are different, but I think I found a way to test and measure the difference. For 15 round bursts they seem true. Although I meant the "kick" itself seems to be visually lower – maybe that's the deceiving of my eyes because of high Recenterspeed. Well, we already knew that Modern Warfare 3 had stance modifiers that reduced ViewKick and GunKick, so that's probably what you're percieving. I think I'm going to go ahead with requests tomorrow assuming that Ghosts' LMGs get the same reduction as LMGs did in Modern Warfare 3 (-10% and -40% crouching and prone, respectively) and use these new ones I calculated for the Sniper Rifles (-25% and -45% crouching and prone, respectively). Please post them here; a request posted in a sub-thread may get overlooked.
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Dec 30, 2013 5:12:49 GMT -5
finished uploading "Plots Sorted by Attachment Selection." Awesome! it was getting hard to compare two guns with eachother with all those attachment effects, thanks allot! p.s. the increased/decreased gun kicks the first bullets on certain weapons are included now I presume?
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probaddie
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You're triggering my intelligence
Posts: 11,043
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Post by probaddie on Dec 30, 2013 11:08:14 GMT -5
finished uploading "Plots Sorted by Attachment Selection." Awesome! it was getting hard to compare two guns with eachother with all those attachment effects, thanks allot! p.s. the increased/decreased gun kicks the first bullets on certain weapons are included now I presume? Yes, everything that could possibly affect accuracy is accounted for as far as I know.
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Jan 3, 2014 20:57:50 GMT -5
Plots were updated for the Remington R5 and ARX-160. Marvel4 pointed out that I used the wrong adsViewKickMinMagnitude for both those weapons; that is now fixed.
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Jan 6, 2014 4:53:33 GMT -5
Mr. Dog. Got anything on the attachment shotgun?
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Jan 6, 2014 19:33:25 GMT -5
Mr. Dog. Got anything on the attachment shotgun? Done.
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Jan 6, 2014 23:49:20 GMT -5
many thanks. so you mention it as the bulldog. I knew it made the same sound...and I always compare it to the bulldog... but what is your reason for calling it that?
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probaddie
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You're triggering my intelligence
Posts: 11,043
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Post by probaddie on Jan 7, 2014 0:02:31 GMT -5
many thanks. so you mention it as the bulldog. I knew it made the same sound...and I always compare it to the bulldog... but what is your reason for calling it that? You'll have to ask Marvel4 - that's what he called it in his spreadsheet. I'm not exactly sure why it would be called that either, though I'm sure the sound being the same isn't a coincidence.
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Jan 10, 2014 19:31:03 GMT -5
So if I understand things correctly, you can only fire when there's a new frame. On console, things run at 60 FPS, unless the framerate drops, and I'm not sure how often that happens. If running at a constant 60 FPS, guns can only fire at certain rates, so the guns will basically round down to 900, 720, and 600 RPM. Am I crazy wrong with any of this so far? So when I look at the difference between the firerate from the firetime in the code and the firetime at 60 FPS, there seems to be a distinct cut off at the 15% difference. All of the guns with greater than a 15% difference are the ones where I would say the gun feels way more accurate than is reflected in the chart. Would you mind doing plots for the AK-12 and M27 at 600 RPM, and the FAD, ARX-160, Vepr, and K7 at 720 RPM? Done.A caveat here: although the firerates were changed, the very way I simulate ViewKick in the plotter is framerate-independent - fixing that would require information about the game I don't have. Thus, you should analyze what you see here with a grain of salt; there may be other factors which could mitigate the gains in accuracy you're seeing.
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probaddie
True Bro
You're triggering my intelligence
Posts: 11,043
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Post by probaddie on Jan 15, 2014 3:19:12 GMT -5
LMGs/Sniper Rifles have been updated with plots for crouching/prone positions (in the "By Weapon" sections only, at the moment).
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Post by Voice from the Basement on Jan 28, 2014 8:01:03 GMT -5
Probaddie, could you please update AK-12's Recoil Plots according to a frequent patch? I suppose the changes are minor, but at least they should be visible.
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Jan 28, 2014 22:45:21 GMT -5
Probaddie, could you please update AK-12's Recoil Plots according to a frequent patch? I suppose the changes are minor, but at least they should be visible. I'll do that - along with an update to include plots for the Maverick and Maverick A2 - tomorrow. Edit: And I'll update the MSBS.
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banana
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Post by banana on Jan 28, 2014 23:02:58 GMT -5
and take msbs's burst delay decrease into account
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Jan 28, 2014 23:04:40 GMT -5
and take msbs's burst delay decrease into account And that, too.
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Jan 29, 2014 20:34:04 GMT -5
Updated with the following changes: - New plots representing the AK-12 after the 28/01/14 patch
- New plots representing the MSBS after the 28/01/14 patch
- Plots for the Maverick
- Plots for the Maverick A2
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probaddie
True Bro
You're triggering my intelligence
Posts: 11,043
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Post by probaddie on Feb 3, 2014 23:59:10 GMT -5
Re-uploaded plots for the post-January patch MSBS due to an error (wrong burst delay).
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Mar 20, 2014 13:33:53 GMT -5
Uploaded plots for the Ripper.
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on May 13, 2014 13:34:53 GMT -5
Uploaded plots for the Bizon (Post 05/09/2014 patch).
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probaddie
True Bro
You're triggering my intelligence
Posts: 11,043
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Post by probaddie on Jun 5, 2014 15:26:58 GMT -5
Uploaded a plot for the Gold PDW.
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Post by d3rp on Sept 21, 2014 1:45:58 GMT -5
So I'm kind of new to denkirson so I do apologize if I sound like a newb, but how do you create these recoil plots?
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