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Post by talon1579 on Jan 2, 2010 10:48:11 GMT -5
I'm not gona justfy this technically as last stand is a bit above realism anyway. I just think the widespread use of last stand cheapens sniping - the itme it takes at extreme range to steady your breath and hit a smaller and mostly obscured target means that your kill is often stolen by a teammate. I'm glad they've reduced it to 10 seconds which made the problem better than in COD 4/5.
As an alternative, putting someone into last stand should give you the kill, with someone else killing them gaining an assist.
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Post by chip sandwich on Jan 2, 2010 11:46:24 GMT -5
I would argue that it shouldn't work against shotguns either, for realism's sake and also for the potential doo-doo on the part of the shotgunner. Although, in another perspective, it does give SMGs an advantage over shotguns.
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gus
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Post by gus on Jan 2, 2010 13:38:59 GMT -5
As an alternative, putting someone into last stand should give you the kill, with someone else killing them gaining an assist. That's what everyone has been yelling at IW to do, and it really is a fantastic idea, but for some reason it's just whizzing by their ears. I really hope IW is making a 1.1 TU right now that fixes everything. Just for the sake of getting this out, Bungie is such a better company than IW. There is literally nothing wrong with Halo 3, even from the beta, general gameplay issues aside. Everything was perfect, and the beta was a better constructed game than MW2. There are so many things wrong with MW2, both technical issues and the general style of gameplay that somehow ended up going into it. This game is unpolished, and I'm going to say that IW flat-out lied to us when they said the matchmaking system was better, the spawns were better, and everything was balanced. |
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battleaxerx
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Post by battleaxerx on Jan 2, 2010 13:49:02 GMT -5
IMO there is much more stuff going on in MW/MW2 compared to halo 3. stuff like, ADS, and perks... and killstreaks. i kinda feel that halo 3 is what lacks polish... But i agree with you that IW is suspiciously stupid...
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gus
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Post by gus on Jan 2, 2010 14:23:07 GMT -5
My point is that Halo 3 is perfect for what it's trying to be. But back on topic.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Jan 2, 2010 16:59:19 GMT -5
I agree that the person that put them down should get the kill and the one taking them out in last stand should get an assist. I've stolen too many kills popping last standers and always feel bad, but I'm not gonna just sit there while he keeps shooting and crawling around.
Having said that there is a simple and effective if slightly more difficult way to avoid it. Headshots. You don't go into Last Stand if you die from a headshot, explosives, or a knife. Sure it's harder to get them, but that's all part of the balance, otherwise Last Stand would be completely useless. (Against pros it practically is anyway.)
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Jan 2, 2010 17:13:48 GMT -5
that is exactly why I think shotguns should get it to.
snipers not IMO, a sniper is often just a gun with a scope....
but a shotgun does often more damage to the body then an explosion does. and you dont get last stand from explosions...
and on the other hand, against a spas 12 etc it really sucks...
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Post by bradqqqqq on Jan 2, 2010 17:16:02 GMT -5
Last stand should not be activated if you take above a set amount of damage. Like say from a shotgun you wouldn't go down. Sniper rifles should only down you with a stomach shot and a limb shot, and finally if you down someone you should 100% of the time get the kill. Even if they stun themself or blow up a barrel.
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Post by talon1579 on Jan 2, 2010 18:06:39 GMT -5
that is exactly why I think shotguns should get it to. snipers not IMO, a sniper is often just a gun with a scope.... but a shotgun does often more damage to the body then an explosion does. and you dont get last stand from explosions... and on the other hand, against a spas 12 etc it really sucks... I'm no expxert, but don't shotguns fire lots of small, low-impact pellets and wound rather than kill? They'd be more likely to knock you down injured, while a sniper bullet to the stomach would pretty much kill you. Anyway, as I said in the first post, the technicalities dont matter as the idea that you can fire accurate and rotate after being shot is ridiculous. |
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Post by hobbert on Jan 2, 2010 18:15:55 GMT -5
that is exactly why I think shotguns should get it to. snipers not IMO, a sniper is often just a gun with a scope.... but a shotgun does often more damage to the body then an explosion does. and you dont get last stand from explosions... and on the other hand, against a spas 12 etc it really sucks... I'm no expxert, but don't shotguns fire lots of small, low-impact pellets and wound rather than kill? They'd be more likely to knock you down injured, while a sniper bullet to the stomach would pretty much kill you. Anyway, as I said in the first post, the technicalities dont matter as the idea that you can fire accurate and rotate after being shot is ridiculous. they can fire hundreds of small bb's called bird shot, 4-15 big pellets called buck shot or a large .50 caliber + slug. all of them are very lethal lol they use buckshot in the game. |
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Jan 2, 2010 19:49:32 GMT -5
I think the headshot thing is good enough but wouldn't be opposed to overkill damage of say somewhere in the range of 40 to 50 damage more than needed to kill preventing last stand. That would be enough to prevent 40 damage weapons from generally preventing last stand except for headshots.
Still, I think the headshot, explosion, knife thing works well enough. I just wish the person that dropped them into last stand got the kill instead. Change that and problem solved.
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Post by chyros on Jan 2, 2010 20:14:32 GMT -5
Last Stand is fine as it is at the moment, except that it should be a deathstreak and Final Stand should piss off.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Jan 2, 2010 21:46:46 GMT -5
I don't think Last Stand is useful enough to be more than borderlined worthless as a deathstreak. In fact it's honestly not very useful at all except vs noobs or when you have cover that it drops you behind, and that isn't too useful actually, it just makes it take you 10 seconds longer to die.
I really only find Last Stand very useful when playing against noobs that don't notice or if I'm using CB:Pro so that there's no red name and crosshairs as a dead giveaway. I'd only put it on par with martyrdom if it were improved a little somehow.
Then again I don't really have a problem with final stand. heh Sure people complain about it and painkiller, but waahhhh... Those people had to die several times without any kills and endure a very frustrating time just to get that little bit of help and it's hardly unbalanced. I don't think the people with the positive KDR's and getting KS's in a game have any room to complain about the loosers getting a little bit of help.
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Post by bradqqqqq on Jan 2, 2010 22:02:49 GMT -5
I don't think Last Stand is useful enough to be more than borderlined worthless as a deathstreak. In fact it's honestly not very useful at all except vs noobs or when you have cover that it drops you behind, and that isn't too useful actually, it just makes it take you 10 seconds longer to die. I really only find Last Stand very useful when playing against noobs that don't notice or if I'm using CB:Pro so that there's no red name and crosshairs as a dead giveaway. I'd only put it on par with martyrdom if it were improved a little somehow. Then again I don't really have a problem with final stand. heh Sure people complain about it and painkiller, but waahhhh... Those people had to die several times without any kills and endure a very frustrating time just to get that little bit of help and it's hardly unbalanced. I don't think the people with the positive KDR's and getting KS's in a game have any room to complain about the loosers getting a little bit of help. This post was about kill stealing. And painkiller sucks because the person who is on a 10 killstreak and is rampaging the enemy spawn meets one and has to shoot it 8 times with a UMP. Its overpowered. Its only use is to make chopper gunners shoot at one spot for a longer amount of time. |
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Jan 2, 2010 22:13:04 GMT -5
Painkiller only lasts a few seconds as is. Sorry, I'm not gonna cry for anybody's 10 killstreak, especially if they're killing spawning players.
As for killstealing the fix is simple, reverse who gets the kill and who gets the assist as stated.
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Post by bradqqqqq on Jan 2, 2010 22:29:09 GMT -5
Painkiller only lasts a few seconds as is. Sorry, I'm not gonna cry for anybody's 10 killstreak, especially if they're killing spawning players. As for killstealing the fix is simple, reverse who gets the kill and who gets the assist as stated. I really dont care I cant manage a 5 kill streak any more. With the 10 seconds they move into my sight line every time and kill me. Today was one of the first times in a while where i flat out beat a Painkiller dude. |
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Jan 2, 2010 22:45:51 GMT -5
I've killed a few. Of course you can always try to run grab some cover for a bit and let it wear off.
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Post by bradqqqqq on Jan 2, 2010 22:48:26 GMT -5
I've killed a few. Of course you can always try to run grab some cover for a bit and let it wear off. Dosent work with my ping. And im talking about when we both meet in Cqc. Kind of funny seeing a level 34 running around with constant painkiller. I forget his name but it was hilarious. |
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adree
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Post by adree on Jan 2, 2010 23:39:13 GMT -5
I've killed a few. Of course you can always try to run grab some cover for a bit and let it wear off. Dosent work with my ping. And im talking about when we both meet in Cqc. Kind of funny seeing a level 34 running around with constant painkiller. I forget his name but it was hilarious. Knife him. |
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Post by ssog on Jan 3, 2010 1:36:13 GMT -5
Dosent work with my ping. And im talking about when we both meet in Cqc. Kind of funny seeing a level 34 running around with constant painkiller. I forget his name but it was hilarious. Knife him. Was going to post this. Knife damage isn't reduced, so it stays a 1-hit kill. |
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moses
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Post by moses on Jan 3, 2010 1:42:49 GMT -5
I probably kill 85% of all Painkillers I start shooting. 5% are too far and run away, 9% kill me, and 1% give me an assist.
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Post by chyros on Jan 3, 2010 7:23:35 GMT -5
I don't think Last Stand is useful enough to be more than borderlined worthless as a deathstreak. In fact it's honestly not very useful at all except vs noobs or when you have cover that it drops you behind, and that isn't too useful actually, it just makes it take you 10 seconds longer to die. It grants you temporary invulnerability to ALL damage sources during which time you can fire your secondary weapon if you had it out. I don't see what is unattractive about free god mode. Besides, the whole deathstreak system could use some modification IMO. |
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Post by bradqqqqq on Jan 3, 2010 9:17:44 GMT -5
 Knife him. Was going to post this. Knife damage isn't reduced, so it stays a 1-hit kill. If i can knife them i will but to me Cqc is like the effective range of the unpatched 1887's. Enough of this discussion though. I do have one question and that is, will you bring akimbo handguns down with you to last stand?
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Jan 4, 2010 0:06:59 GMT -5
Hadn't realized you could keep using your secondary during. I'm always using my primary when I get last standed and tend to get killed before I even have a chance to shoot my pistol unless they are noobs or I'm using CB:Pro.
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Post by epicer on Jan 4, 2010 4:00:27 GMT -5
I just don't see why they can't give the person who put them into Last Stand the kill and why the person who did the 1 point of damage to finish them off couldn't receive the assist points. This would solve alot of problems.
Also, suicides while in Last Stand should give the person who put them into Last Stand an assisted suicide. It's nice that Last Stand pro gave the ability to use equipment, allowing for improvised Martydoms.
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i8
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Post by i8 on Jan 4, 2010 23:29:07 GMT -5
but u didnt kill him the other guy did. what if u do 99 damage to someone and they dont have last stand then a teammate kills him by doing one point of damage should u get the kill NO! and btw in COD4 last stand only lasted 10sec
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Post by ssog on Jan 4, 2010 23:59:58 GMT -5
but u didnt kill him the other guy did. what if u do 99 damage to someone and they dont have last stand then a teammate kills him by doing one point of damage should u get the kill NO! and btw in COD4 last stand only lasted 10sec But you didn't do 98 damage. You did 100 damage. You made the guy drop his primary weapon. You dropped the guy's movement speed to maybe 10% of its original value. The guy is DEAD, he just hasn't bled out yet. It's not like you haven't killed someone in Last Stand- if you run away they'll bleed out, there is no way to survive. They're dead, they're just taking their time. |
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Jan 5, 2010 2:30:52 GMT -5
I agree completely. Last Stand should give the kill to the person that dropped them into Last Stand and the assist to whomever finished them off.
Final Stand, however, should remain since it leaves someone with 50 health and a chance to live, thus still being the bane of Snipers everywhere, but oh well. Shoulda popped him in the head. ;p
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Post by chyros on Jan 5, 2010 6:49:38 GMT -5
but u didnt kill him the other guy did. what if u do 99 damage to someone and they dont have last stand then a teammate kills him by doing one point of damage should u get the kill NO! and btw in COD4 last stand only lasted 10sec But you didn't do 98 damage. You did 100 damage. You made the guy drop his primary weapon. You dropped the guy's movement speed to maybe 10% of its original value. The guy is DEAD, he just hasn't bled out yet. It's not like you haven't killed someone in Last Stand- if you run away they'll bleed out, there is no way to survive. They're dead, they're just taking their time. Exactly. I really don't understand why IW never learned this. Yeah, and in addition to being grossly underpowered, snipers should only be allowed kills when they shoot someone in the head, right?  |
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Jan 5, 2010 20:39:58 GMT -5
Yes, because obviously everyone a sniper tries to shoot always has Final Stand and they never have the chance to finish them off. Please... Final Stand helps people out who have died several times without kills, it's not that big a deal. It does make it randomly a bit harder to get the kill when you're sniping, but luck is a factor in this game, and you have to deal with it.
As for underpowered as long as the sniper shoots first and doesn't miss how are they underpowered? And if they don't shoot first or do miss then how are they being a proper sniper? In sniper vs AR the win goes to whomever sees and shoots first whether your the sniper or the AR.
Snipers don't only get kills with headshots, but if you want to deny people last or final stand then you need a headshot, otherwise last and final stand would take a big nerf. I for one don't see either as needing a nerf, they are hardly overpowering.
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