pachiderm
True Bro
Chewing some serious leaves
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Post by pachiderm on Oct 29, 2017 16:02:52 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2017 2:54:41 GMT -5
EDIT: Bless you, Irish Jesus.
YouTube randomly threw me this curveball in my recommended feed. I am pleased.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2018 21:02:57 GMT -5
An outstanding debate between Dr Jordan Peterson and Channel 4 News. Mad props to this guy.
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Post by TheHawkNY on Jan 22, 2018 10:49:01 GMT -5
That video is insane. I've never seen a host get completely owned on their own show for an entire half hour. Her ability to respond to his words with something contextually relevant but which clearly demonstrated a lack of understanding of what he said was both incredible and terrifying. It was reminiscent of Ali G interviews. I have no idea why she did the "so what you're saying is..." so many times, even if she had been correct every time instead of incorrect every time it would have still been an extremely odd way to perform the interview.
Honestly, the way she got owned is absolutely tragic, because I'm sure there were perfectly good questions to ask and counterarguments to discuss. There were millions of people who watched this that only got to hear one side of the argument, that will never get to hear the other side competently represented.
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Post by blackbarney on Jan 22, 2018 11:10:48 GMT -5
good heavens is that interviewer weird. "what's in it for the women though?" yeah, she keeps saying, "so you're saying..." and he's responding brilliantly with, "it's an observation" she says, "you're making these gross overgeneralizations" and he says, "well i'm a clinic psychologist" i'm loving this guy. His huge Canadian accent as well ...omg, i don't think i can keep watching. She's really being an idiot by trying to over-simplify this. He just said assertiveness counts for 5% of the wage gap maybe, and she responds with, "so what you're saying is that it's not because of gender, but because of assertiveness.." WOT?? He just said it accounts for 5% only. UGH, she's the worst. She keeps saying, 'all women are different' and refuses to acknowledge that there are traits that are common to women. Jesus. At this point I'm getting upset at Beaver for making me watch this, lol. ok i made it to 13:45 and I'm stopping. I love this guy, but the girl is so combative and resistant to her assumptions being challenged that i'm out.
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Den
He's That Guy
Posts: 4,294,967,295
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Post by Den on Jan 22, 2018 12:07:35 GMT -5
Keep going to at least 22:00-23:30.
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Post by blackbarney on Jan 22, 2018 13:12:28 GMT -5
omg, she asks why does freedom of speech trump people getting offended?? What kind of stone-age thinking is that? The whole Larry Flynt thing was about that. People being offended walking into a convenience store doesn't really matter.
Anyway, thanks Den for flagging that. I'm glad I watched that part. He freezes her in her tracks.
"There's no comparison between Mao and a trans-activist is there?"
"...why not?"
wow, hard to not respect this guy. At least he's trying to have a conversation about this which is something that's harder and harder to do these days. The #metoo movement is like that, you can't talk about it at all which is frustrating.
btw, just in case anyone missed it, she actually asks this question, "Let me get this straight, you're saying we should organize our societies along the lines of the lobsters?" She asked that.
"any critics of you get lambasted by your followers--" "and by me, generally." lol, love it.
the ending seconds is totally worth it too. "Jordan Peterson, thank you." *while laughing*, "my pleasure, nice talking to you"
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markopolo
True Bro
Once a LMG Camper, Then a Voidlock, Now a Lexington 25-8-366 Runner
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Post by markopolo on Jan 22, 2018 14:07:32 GMT -5
Let's just be thankful that he is Canadian... this interview could have gone into the woodchipper pdq if he wasn't
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qupie
True Bro
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Post by qupie on Jan 23, 2018 6:03:52 GMT -5
MrFruit and Dakotaz
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markopolo
True Bro
Once a LMG Camper, Then a Voidlock, Now a Lexington 25-8-366 Runner
Posts: 5,567
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Post by markopolo on Jan 23, 2018 10:18:26 GMT -5
I mainly watched Destiny Youtubers, so Datto, My Name is Byf, MesaSean... not as much now tho
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 2:26:09 GMT -5
But what about the lobsters?
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markopolo
True Bro
Once a LMG Camper, Then a Voidlock, Now a Lexington 25-8-366 Runner
Posts: 5,567
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Post by markopolo on Jan 24, 2018 11:46:34 GMT -5
Supposedly the interviewer is getting death threats now and others are spinning this as a backlash to MeToo movement...
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Post by blackbarney on Jan 24, 2018 15:22:11 GMT -5
The #metoo movement has been getting on dangerous territory in losing all its legitmacy as it seems to be going after all men, instead of those most worthy of getting called out like Weinstein and Spacey. The Aziz thing was very divisive because that's the situation most women find themselves in. Except here, no crime was committed, there was full consent. Except the #metoo'ers want everything now, and they think non-verbal cues should be explicitly picked up on (even though that's not our culture at all). You'll always have clumsy men who are bad at this stuff.
Anyway, guys that are frustrated or have been frustrated with women are going to feel very victimized by this and will likely lash out. Once certain women make themselves targets (through no fault of their own) like this BBC chick, then they're going to become the scapegoat of frustrated men. In the EXACT same way that Liam Neeson, Matt Damon and even Aziz have become targets the second they get named. It's a total mob mentality.
The metoo movement is going to get a backlash at some point and signal flares like this interview will be perfect for that.
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markopolo
True Bro
Once a LMG Camper, Then a Voidlock, Now a Lexington 25-8-366 Runner
Posts: 5,567
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Post by markopolo on Jan 24, 2018 15:33:33 GMT -5
I haven't followed the MeToo movement much so I won't comment on that.... but I will comment that this all has less to do with the MeToo movement, and more to do with certain societal groups deflecting an occurance of journalistic debacle by spinning it as a "backlash to the MeToo Movement" in the same way that a lot of RW media outlets and Trump Supporters spin indictments of Trump's actions and character as a "DT is just a victim of a witchhunt"
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Post by aidsaidsaids on Jan 24, 2018 15:52:32 GMT -5
It's just another episode of the ongoing culture war, nothing new to see here whatsoever. While it's obvious she is a cretin, in the interest of fairness bear in mind that the BBC has a collection of official positions (reflected in "editorial standards") that it's required to defend (and potentially faces sanctions at the hand of the BBC Trust for failing to defend) that puts pressure on their employees to be more combative out of an abundance of caution, as paradoxical as that sounds. Consider the following. www.bbc.com/news/uk-41744344
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pachiderm
True Bro
Chewing some serious leaves
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Post by pachiderm on Jan 24, 2018 18:08:21 GMT -5
What a fantastically bad way of trying to defeat an opposing ideology. It's almost like they're trying to weaken their own position by forcing inadequate arguments into the mouths of incompetent interviewers.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2018 16:29:09 GMT -5
There's more. Jordan Peterson mentioned post-interview (to a less malevolent journalist) that he didn't like how things turned out. He's fine with the comments being effectively unanimous in his favor, but he's convinced he could have done more to turn the conversation around into something more productive. Of course, I think he underestimates how well he "surgically dismantled" her aggressive attempts to make him look like an idiot- that's more than enough. People have taken apart the tweets regarding the debate- the last 0.5% against Peterson do not sound like articulate, peaceful people.
In addition Milo took note of how the minute she lost the argument the station hosting the debate attempted to change the narrative. Suddenly the topic changed to "OH WAIT this woman is being harassed now! There's no evidence of this happening, but look at all the security we hired!" Being someone who has been discriminated against for having 'dangerous opinions', he predicts Peterson is slowly going to get more and more shunted out of conventions because the radical left also consider him dangerous.
When FOX News gives a liberal a warmer reception than the radical left, I'm going to say the problem is radicalism.
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Post by blackbarney on Jan 25, 2018 16:45:45 GMT -5
I can't believe I've been on this website for years and Jordan Peterson is probably the most significant thing you guys have taught me about so far.
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pachiderm
True Bro
Chewing some serious leaves
Posts: 647
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Post by pachiderm on Jan 25, 2018 18:21:35 GMT -5
fuck off we've taught you tons of shit.
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Post by TheHawkNY on Jan 25, 2018 18:27:30 GMT -5
There's more. Jordan Peterson mentioned post-interview (to a less malevolent journalist) that he didn't like how things turned out. He's fine with the comments being effectively unanimous in his favor, but he's convinced he could have done more to turn the conversation around into something more productive. Of course, I think he underestimates how well he "surgically dismantled" her aggressive attempts to make him look like an idiot- that's more than enough. People have taken apart the tweets regarding the debate- the last 0.5% against Peterson do not sound like articulate, peaceful people. In addition Milo took note of how the minute she lost the argument the station hosting the debate attempted to change the narrative. Suddenly the topic changed to "OH WAIT this woman is being harassed now! There's no evidence of this happening, but look at all the security we hired!" Being someone who has been discriminated against for having 'dangerous opinions', he predicts Peterson is slowly going to get more and more shunted out of conventions because the radical left also consider him dangerous. When FOX News gives a liberal a warmer reception than the radical left, I'm going to say the problem is radicalism. Milo?
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Post by TheHawkNY on Jan 25, 2018 22:25:20 GMT -5
There's more. Jordan Peterson mentioned post-interview (to a less malevolent journalist) that he didn't like how things turned out. He's fine with the comments being effectively unanimous in his favor, but he's convinced he could have done more to turn the conversation around into something more productive. Of course, I think he underestimates how well he "surgically dismantled" her aggressive attempts to make him look like an idiot- that's more than enough. People have taken apart the tweets regarding the debate- the last 0.5% against Peterson do not sound like articulate, peaceful people. In addition Milo took note of how the minute she lost the argument the station hosting the debate attempted to change the narrative. Suddenly the topic changed to "OH WAIT this woman is being harassed now! There's no evidence of this happening, but look at all the security we hired!" Being someone who has been discriminated against for having 'dangerous opinions', he predicts Peterson is slowly going to get more and more shunted out of conventions because the radical left also consider him dangerous. When FOX News gives a liberal a warmer reception than the radical left, I'm going to say the problem is radicalism. Ohhhhhh, Milo Yiannopoulos. To those of you unfamiliar with him, here's a brief overview of his Wikipedia page, which is surprisingly long for someone so unaccomplished: - He is an immigrant from a shithole country we ditched 200+ years ago - College dropout with multiple failed attempts - Openly gay homophobe - Neo-nazi married to an African-American man - Mysogynist (sample article: "Birth Control Makes Women Unattractive and Crazy") - Banned from Twitter after harassment including calling Leslie Jones "barely literate" and "a black dude" - Most well known for an incident where he: - Said sexual relationships between 13-year-old boys and adult men and women can "happen perfectly consensually" - Backtracked on it, blaming it on having been sexually abused as a child, without any supporting evidence - Watched as a video from prior to the incident leaked where he mocked child sexual-abuse victims by calling them "whining selfish brats" for "suddenly" remembering they were abused, and "suddenly" deciding it was a problem, 20 years after the abuse occurred - Solicited ideas for Breitbart articles from other neo-nazis - Climate change denier - Started a college grant for white men, stole all the money from it, when caught then proceeded to claim to give out 1/10 the grants he said it would Milo is a con-artist and a troll. He is a sad, confused, hate-filled moron. He is not a victim, and certainly not the victim of discrimination by some liberal conspiracy to suppress his "dangerous opinions" lest he destroy their plans. His opinions are dangerous because they're dangerously stupid. He doesn't deserve a platform for his hot takes like "let's treat women and non-whites like sh it" and "Nazis: Fantastic". I say all of this not as an ad hominem attack on what he's saying. It is a plea to you to stop watching him, listening to him, and reading his work. There is no shortage of more qualified sources of news than this confused 33 year old idiot. Please, be better than this.
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Post by aidsaidsaids on Jan 25, 2018 23:45:12 GMT -5
Ohhhhhh, Milo Yiannopoulos. To those of you unfamiliar with him, here's a brief overview of his Wikipedia page, which is surprisingly long for someone so unaccomplished: - He is an immigrant from a shithole country we ditched 200+ years ago - College dropout with multiple failed attempts - Openly gay homophobe - Neo-nazi married to an African-American man - Mysogynist (sample article: "Birth Control Makes Women Unattractive and Crazy") - Banned from Twitter after harassment including calling Leslie Jones "barely literate" and "a black dude" - Most well known for an incident where he: - Said sexual relationships between 13-year-old boys and adult men and women can "happen perfectly consensually" - Backtracked on it, blaming it on having been sexually abused as a child, without any supporting evidence - Watched as a video from prior to the incident leaked where he mocked child sexual-abuse victims by calling them "whining selfish brats" for "suddenly" remembering they were abused, and "suddenly" deciding it was a problem, 20 years after the abuse occurred - Solicited ideas for Breitbart articles from other neo-nazis - Climate change denier - Started a college grant for white men, stole all the money from it, when caught then proceeded to claim to give out 1/10 the grants he said it would Milo is a con-artist and a troll. He is a sad, confused, hate-filled wacky guy. He is not a victim, and certainly not the victim of discrimination by some liberal conspiracy to suppress his "dangerous opinions" lest he destroy their plans. His opinions are dangerous because they're dangerously stupid. He doesn't deserve a platform for his hot takes like "let's treat women and non-whites like sh it" and "Nazis: Fantastic". I say all of this not as an ad hominem attack on what he's saying. It is a plea to you to stop watching him, listening to him, and reading his work. There is no shortage of more qualified sources of news than this confused 33 year old idiot. Please, be better than this. Again in the interest of fairness (and in the unlikely case anyone here isn't already familiar with him) I'm going to clean this up. - He is an immigrant from a shithole country we ditched 200+ years ago- accurate - College dropout with multiple failed attempts- accurate - Openly gay homophobe- half accurate; he is openly gay, he is not a homophobe. He has however said things a certain class of people find offensive relating to gay people and homosexuality generally. Having an opinion about a thing or group doesn't entail any value judgment at all (and certainly not "(thing/group)-phobia") about that thing or group, and behaving as though it does is unproductive at best, and damaging to public discourse at worst. - Neo-nazi married to an African-American man- half accurate; he is married to a black man. The term "neo-nazi" has lately been bludgeoned into unrecognizable shape (thanks in no small part to diatribes like the one I'm fixing here) but a casual comparison of Milo's published views with those of the historical mid-20th century German political movement shows there is almost no overlap. Having opinions about white people (or any other group) does not make one a Nazi. There are people with more extreme views than Milo's (open ethnonationalists and white separatists) who are still not Nazis, neo or otherwise. Conflating these things benefits nobody. - Mysogynist (sample article: "Birth Control Makes Women Unattractive and Crazy")- half accurate; he did author that article (and others like it). This does not entail misogyny for analogous reasons to the ones above regarding homophobia. - Banned from Twitter after harassment including calling Leslie Jones "barely literate" and "a black dude"- inaccurate; he was banned from twitter (according to both twitter and the wikipedia article) for inciting harassment against Jones and others. There is no evidence this took place, and I think Milo is right to observe that he isn't responsible for what someone else does purely on the grounds that they like him. - Most well known for an incident where he: - Said sexual relationships between 13-year-old boys and adult men and women can "happen perfectly consensually" - Backtracked on it, blaming it on having been sexually abused as a child, without any supporting evidence - Watched as a video from prior to the incident leaked where he mocked child sexual-abuse victims by calling them "whining selfish brats" for "suddenly" remembering they were abused, and "suddenly" deciding it was a problem, 20 years after the abuse occurred- I have no way of knowing definitively what Milo is "most well known for" (or indeed how such a thing is measured) but that aside this is basically accurate. - Solicited ideas for Breitbart articles from other neo-nazis- see previous comments regarding Nazis - Climate change denier- accurate - Started a college grant for white men, stole all the money from it, when caught then proceeded to claim to give out 1/10 the grants he said it would- this saga is still ongoing, but given available information this is basically accurate. Whether or not one shares all his opinions (I don't), it's objectively the case that groups of people have organized to prevent him from disseminating them, which is exactly the sort of "conspiracy" and discrimination he is talking about. This notion that someone "doesn't deserve a platform" is one thing I do think Milo is absolutely right to attack, and the great irony of the past five or so years is that well intentioned but confused people who defend this backward notion have themselves to blame for the culture they have inadvertently created, up to and including Trump. I'll refrain from beating a dead horse further, but if trolls like Milo are going to be the rope that the tumblrinas and their cultural allies hang themselves with, then they are worth a few stupid opinions. It's perfectly reasonable to endorse the ~20% of things someone is right about and disagree about the rest; a little nuance never hurt anybody.
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markopolo
True Bro
Once a LMG Camper, Then a Voidlock, Now a Lexington 25-8-366 Runner
Posts: 5,567
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Post by markopolo on Jan 26, 2018 10:45:45 GMT -5
It's perfectly reasonable to endorse the ~20% of things someone is right about and disagree about the rest; a little nuance never hurt anybody. It probably Reason #1 why people elected Donald Trump aka "Yea, he's sexist and shouldn't tweet... but he'll save american jobs and go well for the economy so let's give him a chance."
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Post by TheHawkNY on Jan 26, 2018 12:11:12 GMT -5
He has stated "Gay Rights Have Made Us Dumber" and that gays should "get back in the closet". He has described being gay as "aberrant". This falls under the definition of homophobia. Writing that tossing out birth control is kinder to women because it saves them from being unattractive to men is misogynistic. (In addition, the graph in that article suggesting that birth control is responsible for the increase in divorce rate is moronic.) Seems like there's pretty clear evidence he called Leslie Jones "barely literate" and "a black dude". There does not exist a grey area you can be in with regard to Nazism. Either you reject it or you accept it. If you solicit story ideas from the the country's pre-eminent Neo-Nazi site, go out socially with proponents of ethnic cleansing, and have a great time singing while they give you a Nazi salute, you're a neo-Nazi. Don't give me some technical bullshi t about how he's not a neo-Nazi. This isn't some sitcom where he got mixed up with the wrong group and it was a complete misunderstanding. There is no conspiracy against him. A conspiracy is secret. The organizations attempting to stop him from disseminating his opinions have been quite public about doing so. He is not the victim of discrimination. Discrimination is prejudicial treatment against categories of people. He is individually an as shole. He and his ilk are not "the rope that the tumblrinas and their cultural allies hang themselves with". They are the dangerously stupid people on either side which siphon people who would have views that make sense into pits of stupidity. That they increase the number of stupid people on either side does not equal out, it makes all of us worse off. They should all be ignored. There are plenty of sources to get your news from that get the 20% that he is right about correct, and get a significant portion correct of the 80% that he gets wrong. Constant exposure to the 80% that he is wrong about has a negative impact upon you. Like I said before, there is no shortage of more qualified sources of news than this confused 33 year old idiot. Please, be better than this.
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pachiderm
True Bro
Chewing some serious leaves
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Post by pachiderm on Jan 26, 2018 16:31:53 GMT -5
I think y'all are getting caught up in semantics on whether or not Milo is a "Neo-Nazi." He is a man who holds many unsavory views, some of which it could accurately be said have been taken from old Nazi propaganda, but his views do not represent the Nazi ideology as a whole. I understand the term Neo-Nazi carries a certain amount of cultural weight that people understand, but aids has a point when he says that the term has been so often inaccurately applied that it has lost much of its meaning. Perhaps a different moniker is necessary for describing men like him.
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Post by Aphoristic on Jan 26, 2018 18:29:01 GMT -5
>Gay Jew >Neo-nazi
🤔
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Post by TheHawkNY on Jan 26, 2018 18:29:42 GMT -5
I think y'all are getting caught up in semantics on whether or not Milo is a "Neo-Nazi." He is a man who holds many unsavory views, some of which it could accurately be said have been taken from old Nazi propaganda, but his views do not represent the Nazi ideology as a whole. I understand the term Neo-Nazi carries a certain amount of cultural weight that people understand, but aids has a point when he says that the term has been so often inaccurately applied that it has lost much of its meaning. Perhaps a different moniker is necessary for describing men like him. Regardless of whether or not you accept that he's a neo-Nazi, he should be ignored, but let me ask you - what would it take for you to say that he's a neo-Nazi? It's not as if the leadership came right out and said their plans publicly from the very beginning, and there are a lot of people who would commonly be accepted as Nazis that did not agree with all of the ideology (and many were unaware of some parts of it completely). Where do you draw the line?
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Post by Aphoristic on Jan 26, 2018 18:41:48 GMT -5
He's a free speech absolutist, which does include the right for nazis to speak. You can disagree with nazis and still believe they have the right to state their beliefs.
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Post by TheHawkNY on Jan 26, 2018 19:03:48 GMT -5
He's a free speech absolutist, which does include the right for nazis to speak. You can disagree with nazis and still believe they have the right to state their beliefs. I'm not sure how this is relevant. No one here has questioned anyone's right to free speech. Everyone here understands that you can disagree with Nazis and believe they have the right to free speech.
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Post by Aphoristic on Jan 26, 2018 19:10:34 GMT -5
So how are you still calling Milo a nazi without him espousing any nazi views?
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