wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Apr 14, 2014 15:14:07 GMT -5
It is now one month in after Titanfall PC/XONE release. Longevity has been a concern of the community since day 1, as many people expressed opinions that Titanfall is fun, but it's appeal is not going to be long lasting due to the lack of weapon/game mode variety. I would like to see what Den bros have to say about this topic.
My 2 cents after playing through 4 generations:
1) To me the game is still a lot of fun. As a matter of fact, after becoming familiar with the maps, the game mechanics, and having been "forced" (because of the regen challenges) to play through point of view of CQC weapons / long range weapons / Titans, the game now feels a lot more fun compared to the very beginning.
2) Game mode variety: this is never a problem for me because in CoD i mainly play TDM, KC and DOM anyway.
3) Weapon variety:
IMHO the variety is never a problem. Although there are only 10 primary anti-personnel weapons and 3 side arms, each is quite unique and there are no clones. Also, weapon specific mods can completely transform a weapon into a very different version, like R97 w/Scatter Fire, CAR w/Counter Weight, G2A4 with Match Trigger, Hemlok w/Star Burst, etc. Also, some amped version is unique as well: amped EVA = auto, amped P2011 = 3 round burst, etc.
Not to mention that the Titans have their own suite of primary and ordinance as well, each is unique.
The main issue here (which is not a big one for me) is that Carbine is so good at jack-of-all-trade that if not for the sake of completing challenges a good player can just stick to it and be confident in almost all scenarios.
What do you think?
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Apr 14, 2014 15:16:15 GMT -5
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Apr 14, 2014 15:18:57 GMT -5
Out of the above, I am mostly intrigued by the following:
1) Stats tracking abilities, this can give players bragging rights; 2) Competitive player ranking, more bragging rights; 3) Single player mode: a stress free environment to explore maps and practice wall running (I was hoping to be able to do this through the private match, but unfortunately it requires >=2 players to start a game)
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Apr 14, 2014 17:29:30 GMT -5
Great thoughts, thanks for sharing. Respawn is a new studio and the Titanfall is a new IP, their first priority is to make sure to have an attractive combat sandbox right off the gate. As a result, they went with a minimalist approach, and that has proven to be successful. For the areas they did focus on, they did a great job polishing them. Now they have established a fan base, the next order of business is to keep the player population at a solid level. This is going to be difficult. Looking into other franchises in the past: Gears of War and Halo come to mind. GoW is pretty much dead as an online MP, and Halo has dropped to a low level (from www.halocharts.com/2013/playlists_halo4.php, daily population is around 15K) despite 343's efforts of weekly playlist updates. It would be interesting to see how much effort Respawn is willing to put into keeping the online play alive, and how long they can keep it going.
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Apr 14, 2014 17:42:32 GMT -5
So... I'll tell you what I think is the true genius of Titanfall after giving it few shots.
They took the moba element of mob-killing busywork and hardcopied that to an FPS shell. What this creates is the illusion of pvp skill for the straight-from-Cod casual. What you get is someone who might not be the best at the game, but they can use the smart pistol and get a quad kill on some minions and FEEL awesome. The skillful players get a high from staying in the titans as long as possible or leaving their titan to do auto killing and watch their pilot kills skyrocket.
The way they maintain this illusion is by not heavily tracking the pilot kills (relegating this to merely temporary scoreboard tracking). Also...everyone gets their titan. Everyone gets to feel like a badass. There is no stat tracking heiarchy that causes people to dashboard/quit-in-progress like CoD....if you quit out early in titanfall you are going to miss out on your inevitable titan! This is game design genius. Seriously. I can almost guarantee that adding extended stat tracking would negatively influence the game and add some toxicity to a relatively benevolent community.
The next smart design choice (though not nearly as smart as the one I just mentioned) is the addition of parkour/wallrunning/cloaking. If you want...you can master this tactic and feel like an absolute badass in a different way. They managed to not only fulfill the power-fantasy that CoD caters to, but fulfill the stealth fantasy that games like mark of ninja cater to. Power fantasies are fulfilled by crushing things en-masse that are smaller than you (titans...duh), but the stealth fantasy is accomplished by defeating enemies much stronger than you (against all odds) by using skill and precision. The ability to wallrun and stealth lets you play this way too.
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Apr 14, 2014 17:50:23 GMT -5
what are the reviews saying Mousey? I haven't been following them. Also I went to pax east thanks to a well-off buddy of mine. If you guys have any questions I will gladly do my best to answer them.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Apr 14, 2014 18:16:01 GMT -5
So... I'll tell you what I think is the true genius of Titanfall after giving it few shots. They took the moba element of mob-killing busywork and hardcopied that to an FPS shell. What this creates is the illusion of pvp skill for the straight-from-Cod casual. What you get is someone who might not be the best at the game, but they can use the smart pistol and get a quad kill on some minions and FEEL awesome. The skillful players get a high from staying in the titans as long as possible or leaving their titan to do auto killing and watch their pilot kills skyrocket. The way they maintain this illusion is by not heavily tracking the pilot kills (relegating this to merely temporary scoreboard tracking). Also...everyone gets their titan. Everyone gets to feel like a badass. There is no stat tracking heiarchy that causes people to dashboard/quit-in-progress like CoD....if you quit out early in titanfall you are going to miss out on your inevitable titan! This is game design genius. Seriously. I can almost guarantee that adding extended stat tracking would negatively influence the game and add some toxicity to a relatively benevolent community. The next smart design choice (though not nearly as smart as the one I just mentioned) is the addition of parkour/wallrunning/cloaking. If you want...you can master this tactic and feel like an absolute badass in a different way. They managed to not only fulfill the power-fantasy that CoD caters to, but fulfill the stealth fantasy that games like mark of ninja cater to. Power fantasies are fulfilled by crushing things en-masse that are smaller than you (titans...duh), but the stealth fantasy is accomplished by defeating enemies much stronger than you (against all odds) by using skill and precision. The ability to wallrun and stealth lets you play this way too. Very good thoughts here. I think that one fact learnt from CoD's success is that to make an online competitive MP game alive, it needs to have the ability to attract both newbie players and serious players: 1) The game needs to have a low entry point so new players can have fun and won't get scared away, and 2) it also need to have mechanisms to reward players as they get better By creating a ecosystem that can attract people of all skill levels, the game can establish a solid player base that higher level players can have fun and sense of achievement by beating lower level players, lower level players can have fun by beating noobs, and noobs just keep coming in , because the initial barrier is not too bad so they can still have fun, so they are able to hang in there long enough to become more experienced. By making the game a twitch shooter, CoD gives noobs a very good chance to beat better players, simply by camp ing. By providing killstreaks as well as making stats visible and easy to find, it pleases advanced players for bragging rights like K/D. Halo franchise is going downhill because it struggles to achieve 1). Titanfall on the other hand has a great setup for 1), because of the reasons mentioned in the quote above. What it needs to focus on is 2), and that's why they are thinking about stats tracking, competitive ranking, and esports features.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Apr 14, 2014 18:30:03 GMT -5
In terms of skill factor: after playing through 4 generations, I am enjoying the game in the following aspects (from a medicore FPS player point of view):
1) Pilot vs. Pilot: this is very similar to CoD; 2) Pilot vs. environment: run, double jump and wall run through a world of rich verticality can be quite rewarding by itself. Also, once a player becomes familiar with the routes of getting to hotspots and advantageous vantage points, the knowledge becomes part of the "skill" for beating other players; 3) Titan vs. Titan: with primary attack ability (primary weapon), secondary attack ability (ordinance), defense ability (tactical ability) and dash maneuvers, this match up is very different from CoD like encounters. It is more similar to Halo, but richer; 4) Titan vs. Pilot (non-rodeo): this does not require much skill. It is more like using killstreaks in CoD; 5) Titan vs. Pilot (rodeo): rodeo gives Pilots a chance to face Titans on an even playing field. Starting at the moment when a pilot jumps onto a Titan, an intensive 1v1 encounter commences. It is a combination of quick thinking, gun skills, and defensive maneuvers that will determine who eventually come away as the winner;
So IMHO Titanfall has the potential to become a competitive game, beyond just casual play. It would be interesting to see whether and how Respawn can take advantage of that.
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Apr 14, 2014 18:38:12 GMT -5
They took the moba element of mob-killing busywork and hardcopied that to an FPS shell. What this creates is the illusion of pvp skill for the straight-from-Cod casual. What you get is someone who might not be the best at the game, but they can use the smart pistol and get a quad kill on some minions and FEEL awesome. The skillful players get a high from staying in the titans as long as possible or leaving their titan to do auto killing and watch their pilot kills skyrocket. not comparable really. The AI in mobas is more than just being weak AI. They're perfectly balanced, and incredibly simplistic. manipulating how they act, being efficient with then, and tracking how well the opponent is killing them is a major element. A somewhat comparable implementation is in Monday Night Combat, since they also have strict pathing, are symmetrical, it's still not as deep as it gets in mobas though but the core concept is there. What titanfall does has the whole idea of bots players can farm for an advantage, but the important difference is that it lacks the assured fairness offered by the ones in mobas. I think it is comparable in that mob killing is a busywork that is necessary for winning...and that is where the comparison ends. I think that is something that FPS's have been sorely missing. The fairness element is also there via the mere existence of non-human fodder that lets you get your titan faster. but you didn't answer my question :x ....what are the reviews saying? "general consensus."
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Apr 14, 2014 18:42:07 GMT -5
In terms of skill factor: after playing through 4 generations, I am enjoying the game in the following aspects (from a medicore FPS player point of view): 1) Pilot vs. Pilot: this is very similar to CoD; 2) Pilot vs. environment: run, double jump and wall run through a world of rich verticality can be quite rewarding by itself. Also, once a player becomes familiar with the routes of getting to hotspots and advantageous vantage points, the knowledge becomes part of the "skill" for beating other players; 3) Titan vs. Titan: with primary attack ability (primary weapon), secondary attack ability (ordinance), defense ability (tactical ability) and dash maneuvers, this match up is very different from CoD like encounters. It is more similar to Halo, but richer; 4) Titan vs. Pilot (non-rodeo): this does not require much skill. It is more like using killstreaks in CoD; 5) Titan vs. Pilot (rodeo): rodeo gives Pilots a chance to face Titans on an even playing field. Starting at the moment when a pilot jumps onto a Titan, an intensive 1v1 encounter commences. It is a combination of quick thinking, gun skills, and defensive maneuvers that will determine who eventually come away as the winner; So IMHO Titanfall has the potential to become a competitive game, beyond just casual play. It would be interesting to see whether and how Respawn can take advantage of that. Titanfall 2 or 3 is probably when it is going to take off like crazy. It took Cod4 to make CoD the king. I think if anything titanfall gives us an awesome shell to start thinking about for the reasons you mention here.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Apr 14, 2014 18:48:28 GMT -5
At the very beginning, I don't like the idea of dumb AIs at all. I thought that the sole purpose of their existence is to please noob FPS players.
Now my opinion on this matter has changed significantly. I now really appreciate their existence, for the following reasons:
1) They do make the battlefield more alive; 2) They provide opportunities for me to experiment and enjoy harder-to-use weapons. Although I absolutely suck at sniping, I can still pick one up and kill minions for fun; 3) Although they don't present much challenge at all as opponents, players can make things more interesting. E.g.: always go for head shots. In other words, they are great for target practice. I gain my confidence and feeling about a weapon by using it to kill minions. By the time I am done with all the weapon challenges, I feel more proficient and confident about that weapon.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Apr 14, 2014 19:47:05 GMT -5
By "competitive" I did not mean to say e-sports level of competitiveness. For that to happen the game needs to have a big fan base first, which is still a question mark for Titanfall.
What I mean is that the game can appeal to competitive minded gamer, as the game's core seems to be deep enough to differentiate players with different skill levels.
For the game to thrive on longevity, I think the game needs a competitive player ranking system, along with some kind of skill based matchmaking, to keep advanced players from losing interest. For these players, pub stomping can get boring after a while.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Apr 15, 2014 11:55:57 GMT -5
well alright but no offense I think that level of competitiveness would go without saying for most games... Sure. It's just that Titanfall's initial setup gave people the impression that it is tailored for casual play: 1) Presence of dumb AIs and low Pilot vs. Pilot encounter rate; 2) Everybody can get Titans; 3) Invisible stats; 4) Skill not considered in matchmaking; As a result, significant number of players who came from CoD and consider themselves "good" stopped playing the game as soon as the initial novelty wears off, because they feel that there are not much to "play for". It is my opinion that this game needs a player to put significant amount of play time into it (say 3 - 4 generations) to full appreciate its depth and skill development. If a player is playing Titanfall like CoD and only interested in Pilot vs Pilot gun fight, he is not seeing the other 4 skill aspects I mentioned earlier and of course will feel bored after a while.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Apr 15, 2014 12:42:41 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2014 7:37:55 GMT -5
Can't say Twitch is favouring Titanfall for the past while. I didn't even know RPG Maker was a thing on Twitch; let alone a thing to begin with. It's almost like cheating a video game satire site should start a list of games that get higher viewership on Twitch over Titanfall.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2014 1:31:26 GMT -5
Holy shit people still play WarZ?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2014 2:35:40 GMT -5
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Apr 20, 2014 12:30:44 GMT -5
Interesting article about Titanfall Longevity with some very good points www.kotaku.com.au/2014/04/titanfall-dropped-the-ball-on-longevity/The cool thing is that none of these are real weaknesses of the core game, and can be added post launch, which Respawn has been trying to do. Even if they fail the longevity test for Titanfall 1, I am confident that they will do a much better job for Titanfall 2.
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Post by Pegasus Actual on Apr 22, 2014 6:34:24 GMT -5
I don't think I want to understand the mind of the average gamer if recent COD has longevity to them and Titanfall doesn't. After reading about Titanfall's development in that $2 interactive ebook thing, I'm sure if 'lack of shit to unlock' is really a problem they'll be able to remedy it next game.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on May 28, 2014 14:16:22 GMT -5
It is now 10 weeks since the game launch, how do bros here feel about the game's longevity?
As I mentioned in another thread, there are plenty of complaints about the game, but none of them are about the fun of core game play. These complaints are usually revolved around one central theme: "there is not much to play for beyond run and gun":
1) Player stats are private so can't brag. As an extension of this, it is not a great game for YouTube/Twitch, so there are much less "player generated" advertisement; 2) No weapon customizations (e.g. camo) to grind for; 3) Not much weapon/ability variety to experiment (and have fun) with by tweaking loadouts;
Among the possible enhancements they laid out over a month ago:
The only thing materialized so far is the DLC. Hopefully with that out of the way they will be able to rollout the other (free) enhancements soon. They need to give players more things to "play for", Insignia can be cool, visible player stats can inspire people to play more, and competitive player ranking can drive players to grind.
Regarding player population, I took a break from Tianfall for 2 - 3 weeks to play Borderlands 2 (did not get the game when it was released, picked it up at $7 when it was on sale at XBL game on demand), came back this week and noticed that on XONE US West there are still lots of new players coming in (generation 1, level < 30). Is that the same on other regions, as well as X360 and PC?
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on May 28, 2014 14:21:34 GMT -5
In terms of sales; accordingly to vgchartz, by 05/17 Titanfall has become the top selling game on XONE with 1.78 million copies sold, finally surpassed CoD Ghosts: www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/?platform=XOne. Combined with X360 the number of copies sold is around 2.5 million. PC sales number is hard to get, but I think it would be definitely more than 0.5 million, bring the grand total to around 3 million. The sales may not be as much as MSFT hoped for, but for Respawn it is definitely a success. Had it been available on PSN, the sales figure should be approaching 5 million+ by now.
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Will
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Post by Will on May 28, 2014 21:23:12 GMT -5
It's by far the most popular games on Xbox One. I'm still loving it as much as day one. I just wish the DLC maps came with campaign missions - I want some story to go with them! And campaign missions for the 6 disc maps that have none.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on May 28, 2014 22:02:24 GMT -5
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Post by iw5000 on Jun 10, 2014 15:39:35 GMT -5
Despite the gameplay similarities and the obvious dev connotation, I don't think cod is the best comparison because it survives for a lot of reasons that I don't think are applicable. There was a phase some years back of a bunch of devs trying to rip of cod trying to make every B-list military shooter hopefully spawn a franchise. these days the only military shooters besides cod that can be considered major are counter strike and battlefield, both of which began before cod anyway. Game mode variety is nice to have but as you mentioned most people dont take advantage of that anyway. The biggest genre on PC right now are MOBAs and they effectively only really have one game mode (well, i suppose you can make the case for LoL having more but only one "serious" game mode). Most games I play I end up primarily playing one game mode and occasionally dipping into others, I'd imagine thats the case for a lot of people. Weapon variety isn't something I think makes or breaks a game in the slightest. Halo had people spawn with the exact same weapons only swapping them out for notable stuff they come across, but most fights had equal loadouts but it was an incredibly rich game beyond that. Competitive TF2 has had the same class distribution be considered the core "best" with very little change in loadouts over the years, but the metagame has changed dramatically regardless. Hell, even cod gives the impression of having more variety in weapons than it actually offers; very few weapons end up considered the "best," and the fact that despite that you have pretty much every weapon being a bunch of people's favorites shows how minor the differences are in the long run. Really any game can have a long lasting playerbase, but it comes in different forms. CoD offers new games every year, tons of stuff that count for bragging rights, plenty of unlocks and customability options that encourage players to keep playing and earning shit. They also put more into marketting than any other game (well maybe. LoL is a contender here as well but it comes in a different form thats hard to really quantify since their esports stuff counts towards more than just marketting). CoD is popular for one major reason. It's the video game version of a free lunch. CoD allows ten different players to basically play the game and 'win' in ten different ways. THAT is why the game has survived as long as it has. Go play a CoD game. If you play to win and crap on some people...your side is happy. But reality is, probably the top two players on the opponent side are happy too, as they were playing for 'kills' or maybe 'KD' ratio. Probably three other opponents quit, so they are happy, because their 'loss' and bad deaths never counted. And then the token few who remain, probably most of them were playing for some dumb sniper challenge or camo suit as it was, so they were all happy too. Basically, no one loses in CoD. Everyone wins every game to varying degrees. It really is quite stupid. And that concerns me with TF's longevity. I don't want them to make the game become 'CoD', where nearly everyone plays to a stupid statistic, letting almost all their actions in every game mode be guided by how some ratio may be after the game. It's suffocating. TF is refreshing because it's quite liberating to be able to just go buck wild around the map, playing the game, as the game was intended. Maybe you go 3-7 with pilot kill/deaths, but in turn, you knock out 5 titans. You help your team win, and that's enough.
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Post by iw5000 on Jun 10, 2014 15:53:00 GMT -5
In terms of sales; accordingly to vgchartz, by 05/17 Titanfall has become the top selling game on XONE with 1.78 million copies sold, finally surpassed CoD Ghosts: www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/?platform=XOne. Combined with X360 the number of copies sold is around 2.5 million. PC sales number is hard to get, but I think it would be definitely more than 0.5 million, bring the grand total to around 3 million. The sales may not be as much as MSFT hoped for, but for Respawn it is definitely a success. Had it been available on PSN, the sales figure should be approaching 5 million+ by now. If the number ends up around 4 million, that's a huge success imho. Halo 4 recently sold like 8.5 million units, but one needs to keep in mind that this is a split console year. New consoles being out, means MUCH less disposable income by consumers to buy games. Every gamer has a 'number' in their head, with what they are willing to put into video game stuff (consoles, accessories, games, dlc, etc..). That being a total for everyone all year, what they spend. Some years, it might be $440. Other years, it might be $300. There is a number though. And when you toss in people having to spend $400 to $500 on a new console.....some new game purchasing is going to suffer. That is reality. Every game that has come out since November...has probably seen it's sales cut by 20 to 30% bare minimum imho. Easily. Even CoD. Everyone is talking about it's demise, but seem to forget that it has sold 21 million units. The new consoles took A LOT of sales from casual CoD fans, especially bandwagon jumpers. Tack on another 20 to 30%...CoD is selling around 26 to 27 million units, and people are singing it's praises again. Back to TF. If this wasn't a new console year, the above 4 million units sold would probably end up being in the 6 to 7 million range. And with that, TitanFall would be getting all kinds of crazy press. Remember, MW1 only sold like 8.8 million units on the 360.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Jun 17, 2014 9:51:09 GMT -5
Respawn Hopes to Support Titanfall for a "Long Time;": www.gamespot.com/articles/respawn-hopes-to-support-titanfall-for-a-long-time-won-t-confirm-titanfall-2/1100-6420519/The gist of the article: as long as there are enough interest and engagement from the player community, Respawn will continue to invest resources into supporting the game. My observation on XONE: the crowd who are playing this game have matured. Recently for every lobby I played in, almost all players are >= Gen 2, often with at least 1 or 2 Gen 8+ players on each team. For more than 50% of my playing time I can see at least 1 Gen 10 player in the lobby. this mature crowd is going to be fairly stable for a while because once a player starts regen he/she will likely aim at reaching Gen 10. There is a lot of playing to get there. Meanwhile this month's free update with loads of features and (hopefully) map DLC next month will keep the game from feeling a bit stale. This game is still the go to MP game on XONE, and there are nothing to dethrone it until Destiny is out (Open Beta on 07/21 and official launch on 09/09). Once Destiny is released however, I expect that most of the players will stop playing. In other words, the game has about 2.5 months left in its life (on XONE).
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Jun 18, 2014 14:52:00 GMT -5
/Off topic
Witty! when are you going to be on to play some titanfall! I've been playing solo for 3-4 days now! I'm on Gen3 lol.
I'm in love with upload studio. I've decided I want to make a montage lol...
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Jun 18, 2014 16:35:57 GMT -5
/Off topic Witty! when are you going to be on to play some titanfall! I've been playing solo for 3-4 days now! I'm on Gen3 lol. I'm in love with upload studio. I've decided I want to make a montage lol... Nowadays Titanfall is the only game I play, trying to grind through to Gen 10 I am west coast, play full night Thursdays and full day Sunday. I also often play on Saturdays during the day time, and sometimes late night on week days. What's your gamer tag again? I can't remember whether you are still on my friend list.
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Jun 18, 2014 16:37:31 GMT -5
Post IXI Mortem
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Jun 18, 2014 16:41:39 GMT -5
Friend request sent. Look forward to playing with you again very soon. Which "zone" are you in?
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