Ricebowl
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Post by Ricebowl on May 1, 2014 21:13:54 GMT -5
I think Titanfall has potential with esports. But its certanly not there yet. Some gamers have created teams and played matches against each other its, in my opinion, interesting. But what do you think?
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Slick
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Post by Slick on May 2, 2014 15:51:03 GMT -5
CoD is also a glorified party game with an esports scene, no reason Titanfall won't have one eventually. I think the second Titanfall is when it takes off.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on May 2, 2014 22:19:19 GMT -5
Yeah I would say TF needs tons of developer support to turn into any respectable kind of esport. While it has some potential for it, honestly this game was built to be fun, not to be an esport. Unlike say, Shootmania, which is built from the ground up for esports... (but doesn't look terribly fun... unless you're the best player in the game, that is. heh)
TF is still young so I guess we'll have to wait and see what they do with it. If all we get is three map packs and a couple game modes then sequel, then I don't expect much in the way of esports. I do hope they take their time expanding and perfecting this one before they push on for a sequel, though.
I was wondering how esports would even handle the game. I assume they would ban burn cards at the least. The last titan standing stuff is interesting, but I get kinda bored with it. I want to see some parkour and pilot on pilot action too.
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Will
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Post by Will on May 2, 2014 22:45:27 GMT -5
I believe, thanks to the parkour mechanics, Titanfall has much more skill mastery depth than any COD game. The skill cap in COD is so freaking low, that the game mostly ends up being luck-based. Titanfall has more of a GearsOfWar feel to it. In Gears, the skill cap is almost infinitly high due to the pros dancing and bouncing around with the cover-clinging mechanics. I think that Titanfall has that potential, we just haven't realised it yet. They really fucked up by not having Private Matches on release, and they still lack enough options. Once we get FULL private match options, the potential for eSports is there. Pilots only with no grunts? Yes please. I am addicted to the parkour.
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Ricebowl
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Post by Ricebowl on May 3, 2014 9:58:33 GMT -5
. Pilots only with no grunts? Yes please. i think that the grunts would be fine in competitive play. In league of legends the grunts do nothing except distract the towers. In titanfall they give you easy attrition points
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mannon
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Post by mannon on May 3, 2014 10:47:34 GMT -5
I'd support options to remove grunts and spectres for private matches and then just see how it turns out. I don't think grunts are that big a deal for competition unless people just don't want to see somebody grunt farming to get their titan up, but I'm reluctant to kill that off as it is a valid tactic and adds variety to the game. Also I think the battles would feel less alive without the grunts. It would be less interesting to watch, even if the grunts are just fodder.
Also grunts do add some strategic elements to the game aside from just being fodder. They can also be used as bait, or a form of open cover. On top of that they also have their own callouts. Enemy and friendly grunts can actually give away your position to anybody listening to what they say. I know I've started listening to them when they say they've spotted a pilot that I wasn't already aware of.
On top of that they are useful for charging your core. Okay so grunts have next to zero offensive capability. But they are the game's primary resource in a lot of ways and really integral to the game design. Competitive events without them would be losing something and literally dumbing down the game just to cut out a little bit of randomness. (Not that they won't. I still remember the debate over reticle bloom in Halo Reach. To be honest all the ban lists and other stuff is a big part of why I don't watch much esports. I don't want to watch pros playing what is basically a custom mod of the game I like to play, I want to watch them playing the same fun game I enjoy and being really good at it. I understand if some things just aren't balanced for it and don't work, but hell the talk over Halo Reach came to changing core mechanics of the game... meh...)
But like I said, I hope they add the option to private matches, along with many more. No spectres until titans come out was something somebody wanted. I also recall a developer at PZ really loving the on foot combat, but not how matches often turn to complete chaos when the titans roll out and he wanted a no titans mode. Personally, I don't think it's necessary to cut them out completely, but it might be cool to limit them a bit more. Getting voltroned sucks balls, because even if you get your own titan it will only live about 5 seconds. When you're completely outgunned like that there isn't much you can do.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on May 3, 2014 10:55:05 GMT -5
CoD is also a glorified party game with an esports scene, no reason Titanfall won't have one eventually. I think the second Titanfall is when it takes off. Titanfall also doesnt have CoD's enormous population, which is the only reason there's an esports scene in the first place. It also, as far as I know, it doesnt have the usual spectator tools most esporty shooters have to compensate for the fact that shooters are really hard to follow as a spectator (such as sillouhettes or a nice interface showing the status of players or how close they are to getting a titan drop or whatever), and doesn't have the modding support for that to be created (PC version might get modding support they said but thats definitely not where the playerbase is). At most I'd expect titanfall's esports scene to be a smaller version of what tf2 has, but without several official leagues. just community run tournaments. There's stuff on gamebattles, and hopefully some group may actually set up something more official (to at least push the scene further than "competitive pub"). I'm sure that dedicated competitive oriented players will end up with some higher division setup (it happened with halo wars for fuc ks sake) but I definitely don't see it going anywhere without a lot of developer support to help it evolve more naturally. This. IMHO for a game to be seriously considered for esports it needs to have a big fan base first. Titanfall is not there, at least not yet.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2014 13:21:40 GMT -5
I get that Titanfall wasn't initially designed to have a professional scene right off the bat, but if Titanfall ever became a successful eSport it's going to be in spite of its game modes. Last titan standing is not the best choice of game mode; a 2D 4-minute slug fest is the last thing that should be brought out to represent this game. Furthermore this is an elimination gametype boiled down twice. Capture the Flag, Pilot Hunter and Hardpoint are game modes that have also been done and done well; I really don't see what Titanfall adds to these game modes that its competitors haven't already done. Were it up to me I'd say Attrition is probably the go-to gametype that's at least somewhat original and ties up every element of the game into a single game-mode. Up the score cap and things will get interesting fast.
Another issue many FPSes commonly face is the variety in setups on the higher levels of play. Players and viewers don't care about balance; but they do care about having enough toys that work. If the pro circuit boils down to a single setup for the most optimal well-rounded build it's not going to help the entertainment value very much. I guess Titanfall's variety factor is 'having a Titan/not having a Titan', which is where it should focus first.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2014 16:32:45 GMT -5
-shooter with a remotely respectably sized esports scene -tf2
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wings
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Post by wings on May 4, 2014 8:01:04 GMT -5
I believe, thanks to the parkour mechanics, Titanfall has much more skill mastery depth than any COD game. The skill cap in COD is so freaking low, that the game mostly ends up being luck-based. Titanfall has more of a GearsOfWar feel to it. In Gears, the skill cap is almost infinitly high due to the pros dancing and bouncing around with the cover-clinging mechanics. I think that Titanfall has that potential, we just haven't realised it yet. They really Foxtroted up by not having Private Matches on release, and they still lack enough options. Once we get FULL private match options, the potential for eSports is there. Pilots only with no grunts? Yes please. I am addicted to the parkour. I guess that's because it's a cover-based shooter and most of the weapons in Gears require greater gunskill to use than in COD. I mean you have perks in COD that circumvent elementary skills of shooters anyway.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2014 15:43:47 GMT -5
SHOOTMANIA has sh it all over the ground.
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pachiderm
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Post by pachiderm on May 4, 2014 16:14:16 GMT -5
The ban list would probably be super long, and from what I know of the game it doesn't have the private match options or gamemodes it would need to be a good competitive game, or to be interesting to watch on a competitive level.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2014 18:34:39 GMT -5
i have no clue at this point. Shootmania was a game that ground up devs to support the gameplay, the UI and social functions are the gameplay. Anyone wanting to play casually is in hell. If shootmanias supporting what you said earlier then i dont know what Fox is anymore. I'll just pretend i never responded with Fox in the first place.
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Will
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Post by Will on May 5, 2014 2:47:02 GMT -5
or to be interesting to watch on a competitive level. Thats another thing, as someone who hasnt gotten the chance to play the game, its really uninteresting as a spectator. We already went over how its pretty hard to follow from a spectator reasons (as most shooters are), but nothing seems particularly spectacular either. There isn't any real climax in events, just a gradual progressive course to victory. This is certainly something I have noticed as well. While the game is oodles of fun to play, it is very boring to watch. I also find COD boring as hell to watch. Battlefield really is the only FPS that I can really enjoy watching someone else play more than I enjoy playing it myself. It's almost at the same level as Minecraft when it comes to watching>playing. But the thing hurting Titanfall the most is definitely private match options. The fact that the game didn't come with any private match at all on launch was weak, and just reeks of EA-rushing-for-release (ahem BF4). While the multiplay gameplay itself felt absolutely flawless, the game just feels so incomplete. Only 9 of the 15 maps have any storyline attached to them - for a "multiplayer campaign" that is sad - I want to play the other 6 maps! (I only play campaign because I like getting pumped up for my matches - fight for something!).
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wings
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Post by wings on May 5, 2014 5:10:08 GMT -5
People find competitive COD interesting to watch?
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mannon
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Post by mannon on May 5, 2014 11:21:30 GMT -5
The only esport I actually enjoy watching is Starcraft, though I used to enjoy Quake 3 as well. I do enjoy watching some CoD matches, but only when I'm playing CoD and pretty much only non tourney stuff like Chris Smoove with a commentary. I should watch more TF matches. I find it easier to learn maps when I'm not actually fighting and since I can't go into a single player private match... grrr... that's the next best thing.
(Actually I did watch some pro matches of Shootmania back in beta and it was quite exciting to watch. They solved the whole difficult to watch thing by playing an asymmetric game mode that's 1v3. The 1 player has a 1HtK railgun and the 3 others have 3HtK rockets. The 3 players defend a base and the 1 has to cap the point within a time limit, then the sides flip. I don't remember all the specifics, but it was easy to follow from the offensive player's POV because he had no teammates on the field and he was the only one that could actually score. I quit watching mainly because I never bought the game to play it and Starcraft is the only game I don't own that I've really watched a lot of... though I've pretty much quit watching any of that too other than Day9's Funday Monday's. I never got used to Heart of the Swarm. *shrug*)
I think TF could be interesting to watch, but I'm not sure about pro level stuff. For one thing I doubt pros would bother to even play the epilogue and I love the epilogue. It's one of my favorite parts of a match. I really kinda wish they had a game mode based on the epilogue. You know just 1 life, one team escaping other attacking, maybe flip it after the ship departs/explodes. Not really sure how you'd make it work out or how to incorporate titans without it devolving into a variant of last titan standing. But... I'm sure there's a way.
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Ricebowl
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Post by Ricebowl on May 5, 2014 11:35:25 GMT -5
The only esport I actually enjoy watching is Starcraft, though I used to enjoy Quake 3 as well. Did you enjoy watching Halo?
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n1gh7
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Post by n1gh7 on May 5, 2014 14:22:40 GMT -5
I don't think that having spectator/e-sports tools necessarily make a game easier to follow for a spectator and therefore more popular. For example, in my opinion competitive COD is awful to watch. Having only one viewpoint in such a fast paced twitch shooter makes it extremely disorienting to follow. Commentating and switching between 4 viewpoints is so slow that it can't keep up with the pace of the game. Games with slower move mechanics or non first person viewpoint are much easier to follow in this sense as it is easier for a spectator to orient themselves. Because Titanfall has these fundamental problems, it isn't going to get popular in the e-sports world on its own. It's not just a generally fun to watch game. It has to get popular with the general player base the same way COD did to form a large competitive side. The only esport I actually enjoy watching is Starcraft, though I used to enjoy Quake 3 as well. Did you enjoy watching Halo? Halo 3 was an amazing game to watch.
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Post by Pegasus Actual on May 5, 2014 15:21:05 GMT -5
Never got into e-sports, I don't know if Titanfall would make for interesting e-sport... but I do know I had to turn it off when I realized the guy playing was using auto-eject... I mean c'mon man.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on May 5, 2014 15:56:47 GMT -5
Did you enjoy watching Halo?[/quote]
I never watched Halo and I only played Halo 3 single player. Not my favorite Halo, to be honest. I loved dual wielding in Halo 2, though it was a tad awkward at times. I felt like the control scheme changes in Halo 3 to support it even more felt even more awkward. Decent game and I do love me some BR, but I actually had more fun with Reach and lurv me some DMR! I didn't watch Reach either and only played like 2 matches online, mostly just loved single player, some of the horde mode, and co-op... although the broken coop netcode meant it was only playable in local coop. (Really REALLY lame for such a great coop game to be unplayable in coop online, even with good internet. Anybody who's not host WILL lag, and jitter through solid objects, and all sorts of stupidity, aside from barely being able to shoot anything and getting killed by invisible enemies. It's total bullshit.)
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mannon
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Post by mannon on May 5, 2014 15:57:29 GMT -5
Wait... it didn't filter bullshit. Does it only filter shit?
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mannon
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Post by mannon on May 5, 2014 15:57:57 GMT -5
Aww... I guess not, gosh darn golly gee whiz are the filters gone?
I guess not. Maybe it never filtered shit. I can't recall. At least damn is there. Always loved Den's fucking filters. ;3
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Ricebowl
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Post by Ricebowl on May 5, 2014 16:01:12 GMT -5
Aww... I guess not, gosh darn golly gee whiz are the filters gone? they are in a better place now.. Just imagine those birds are filters
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