n1gh7
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Post by n1gh7 on Sept 28, 2014 21:10:16 GMT -5
Must be. I haven't experienced any lag.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Sept 28, 2014 21:48:25 GMT -5
Maybe the lag is a PS4 specific thing... (Just kidding  , can't help it) |
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Post by GodMars on Sept 28, 2014 22:16:32 GMT -5
That's... Odd. Dedicated Bungie servers, so it's not a PS4 thing, but we've definitely all talked about experiencing latency in PvP.
After taking a break I came back to a few ok games, getting myself back up to 360, and then past it to 400. Then I dropped a 95 point game to put me 5 away, which I got at the start of the next match. Now I just have to down Xyor.
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n1gh7
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Post by n1gh7 on Sept 28, 2014 22:28:54 GMT -5
The lag might be if a single player has a bad connection to the server.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Sept 28, 2014 23:05:09 GMT -5
I'm on PS4. I'll have to play more Crucible before I can really judge, though. Just haven't really noticed much lag.
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Post by givemelight on Sept 29, 2014 8:00:18 GMT -5
Played a few PVP matches after I hit level 5. I think in my best match I managed to rack up a whopping 4 kills. I was getting one-shotted left, right, and center. I don't know if that was because I'm below level 10 and all opponents are 20+... I'm not generally one to complain, but it seemed a bit one-sided to me. :-\ Not much fun.
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Post by GodMars on Sept 29, 2014 9:09:38 GMT -5
Played a few PVP matches after I hit level 5. I think in my best match I managed to rack up a whopping 4 kills. I was getting one-shotted left, right, and center. I don't know if that was because I'm below level 10 and all opponents are 20+... I'm not generally one to complain, but it seemed a bit one-sided to me. :-\ Not much fun. Fusion rifles and shotguns are prevalent in Destiny PvP. It's a matter of learning the maps and knowing how to engage said users at range. Outside of the number of abilities you have, level is irrelevant in the Crucible. That said, I wouldn't recommend diving in so early. But YMMV. |
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Post by iw5000 on Sept 29, 2014 9:14:34 GMT -5
Played a few PVP matches after I hit level 5. I think in my best match I managed to rack up a whopping 4 kills. I was getting one-shotted left, right, and center. I don't know if that was because I'm below level 10 and all opponents are 20+... I'm not generally one to complain, but it seemed a bit one-sided to me. :-\ Not much fun. Fusion rifles and shotguns are prevalent in Destiny PvP. It's a matter of learning the maps and knowing how to engage said users at range. Outside of the number of abilities you have, level is irrelevant in the Crucible. That said, I wouldn't recommend diving in so early. But YMMV. But those abilities and sub-ability differences can be a huge factor in getting your azz kicked. While guns might be the same, a level 27 player is going to be able to melee faster, have other abilities, that a low level won't have. So there is a very distinct advantage to the higher level player. It's like a high level CoD player playing with ALL their perks set to 'on', versus someone who has like none. Unfair. Can it be overcome? Just my opinion here (and I am not good at this game) it can be IF you have great map knowledge. But if you are low level, you won't be there yet. PvP is a flawed game because of the above. |
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Post by GodMars on Sept 29, 2014 10:58:28 GMT -5
Fusion rifles and shotguns are prevalent in Destiny PvP. It's a matter of learning the maps and knowing how to engage said users at range. Outside of the number of abilities you have, level is irrelevant in the Crucible. That said, I wouldn't recommend diving in so early. But YMMV. But those abilities and sub-ability differences can be a huge factor in getting your azz kicked. While guns might be the same, a level 27 player is going to be able to melee faster, have other abilities, that a low level won't have. So there is a very distinct advantage to the higher level player. It's like a high level CoD player playing with ALL their perks set to 'on', versus someone who has like none. Unfair. Can it be overcome? Just my opinion here (and I am not good at this game) it can be IF you have great map knowledge. But if you are low level, you won't be there yet. PvP is a flawed game because of the above. Considering how relatively easy it is to hit level 20, waiting until then to start in the Crucible isn't unreasonable. |
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Sept 29, 2014 11:58:10 GMT -5
Is there an ability to melee faster? I didn't think there was. There are abilities to speed up recharge of your melee special attack which does more damage and has some special effects, (most notably the Hunter's throwing knife). But it's not like lower level players don't have those special attacks, they just don't have a couple of the enhancements to it, which is more like the difference between a perk and a pro perk.
There are different grenade types, but that's swapping one perk for another. There are a couple of things that enhance damage, duration, or radius on grenades. Again I would compare these more to unlocking pro perks. Grenades are good in PvP, but more for zoning than killing, I'd say. I do get kills with mine, but half the time only postmortem which is only half as valuable as an attack that kills the other player fast enough to keep me alive.
Below about level 10 I would say yeah you're at a distinct disadvantage. If you love Crucible then go for it, but otherwise just wait a bit. Around level 10 it felt more or less okay to me. I would get nailed by my poor map knowledge and still died to more skilled players a fair bit, but I also got plenty of kills of my own against higher level players, mostly just by staying on target with headshots. I didn't feel like I had a lot of BS deaths barring the occasional bad spawn, mostly they were my own mistakes or just good play by my opponent. (Though primarily I'd say my own mistakes, which I'm hoping are correctable. heh)
As GodMars says level 20 isn't difficult to hit and level 10 is nothing. Part of me wishes they had a < level 10 playlist, maybe with only one or two game types. That would help newer players who just jump into Crucible ASAP, but then if you keep playing it you'll level up anyway. I doubt you could even properly learn the maps and abilities before you hit level 10. The window from 5 to 10 is pretty damn short. Not that there's a major power increase at 10, I'm just generalizing because I went back and played Crucible around 10, 11, 12 and it felt okay to me. It helped that I was playing with a Den crew, but my 1v1's also didn't feel like I was totally outmatched against higher level players. (There was one game I was constantly outmatched, but it wasn't just me, we were up against a good team and we wern't very coordinated at all, and they rolled us. But that was skill and teamwork, not levels.)
Anyway, I still haven't played enough to really judge so mebbe I'll take my Defender into Crucible since he's kinda low, but really... I don't think it's a huge power gulf. Between level 5 and level 30+ (subclass abilities aren't measured or dealt out by level, in fact you have to start over from zero subclass XP once you unlock them. Technically a level 30 character could switch to a subclass they have never played and go play Crucible with zero abilities at all, far less than any level 5 noob. I don't know why anybody who's played enough to be high level wouldn't just go get some XP first, but I'm just pointing out that level is only useful as a marker for subclass abilities if they have only played one subclass on that character, otherwise they could be far less developed than their level suggests.)
Personally I think the power gulf between the lowest level and highest level characters in Crucible is only marginally larger than the power gulf between lowest and highest level players in CoD, but you also cross that gulf much much quicker. And while there is no prestige system at present (they had something similar in Beta, but it was confusing and got cut) to explicitly reset more experienced players back to low level, there are 3 characters and 6 subclasses to develop and most hardcore Destiny players are going to develop multiple characters and subclasses. So while you're only a noob once, you will be weaker in Crucible up to 6 times if you play Crucible every time you start a new subclass and play them all.
I think the learning curve is a FAR greater disparity between new players and experienced players than their levels are. I'd be willing to bet the players that do well in Crucible could start new characters and still do well at low levels, especially around level 10 or so.
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Post by iw5000 on Sept 29, 2014 11:59:26 GMT -5
I am level 25 and still don't have all my sub-class abilities maxed out lol. It takes a few weeks. And then if you start a new character, it's the same deal all over again.
The above doesn't have to be a game-breaker. I just don't play Crucible that much (only when I have too). The game can still be a good time without PvP. And if you do play Crucible? Not the end of the world taking a bit of a azz-beating. Life doesn't end. Every beating just makes you better.
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Post by GodMars on Sept 29, 2014 12:07:00 GMT -5
Is there an ability to melee faster? I didn't think there was. There are abilities to speed up recharge of your melee special attack which does more damage and has some special effects, (most notably the Hunter's throwing knife). But it's not like lower level players don't have those special attacks, they just don't have a couple of the enhancements to it, which is more like the difference between a perk and a pro perk. Gear can make it faster. I believe my helm and chest both boost melee speed. |
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Sept 29, 2014 13:03:16 GMT -5
Yes, I have some gear that boosts melee speed as well, but that mod is available even in green gear, so it's not exclusively high level. For my warlock I prefer melee that recharges my grenades vs faster melee or throwing grenades further. I just want more of them. ;3 But then I love my warlock grenades for their AoE DoT and zoning. Both Voidwalker and Sunsinger have similar grenades for that and they don't damage me either, which is a bonus so I can use them at any range. Better indoors than out, but great damage, especially against groups unless I whiff my throw. ;3
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Sept 29, 2014 13:52:10 GMT -5
I am level 25 and still don't have all my sub-class abilities maxed out lol. It takes a few weeks. And then if you start a new character, it's the same deal all over again. The above doesn't have to be a game-breaker. I just don't play Crucible that much (only when I have too). The game can still be a good time without PvP. And if you do play Crucible? Not the end of the world taking a bit of a azz-beating. Life doesn't end. Every beating just makes you better. IMHO people need the above attitude when going into Crucible, getting you ass kicked in expected, able to stomp others is a pleasant surprise. This is because there are players out there play nothing but Crucible, assume you are being hunted going in. Putting into enough hours, any decent FPS players can become advanced IMHO. Whether you enjoy the experience however is a matter of personal taste. |
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Sept 29, 2014 14:10:08 GMT -5
Until you're very experienced in Crucible don't play late at night unless you're MLGPro, masochistic, or just don't care if you get roflstomped... especially on weeknights. (Applies to most competitive multiplayer, honestly. Casual players mostly go to bed and don't stay up all night playing... mostly. I hate being the only one that doesn't, but sometimes that's when I can play so I do. Luckily with Destiny there's plenty of things I can do besides Crucible.)
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Post by daftpunk on Sept 29, 2014 14:39:03 GMT -5
Its pretty hard to be consistent in PvP , i can stomp one game and the next get the living sh1t kicked out of me , im in no doubt some of the higher level players with exotic weapons do have a bit of an advantage...
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Post by iw5000 on Sept 29, 2014 17:08:01 GMT -5
all this talk about PvP...i just went and played two games of 3v3
LOL
The MP is a big old smelly turd of a game lol. Hitting enemies in the head with a pulse rifle...one, two, three bursts right on taget....nothing. They just fly and teleport right into face and one shot me with a shotgun.
NO thanks.
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Post by GodMars on Sept 29, 2014 17:42:30 GMT -5
all this talk about PvP...i just went and played two games of 3v3 LOL The MP is a big old smelly turd of a game lol. Hitting enemies in the head with a pulse rifle...one, two, three bursts right on taget....nothing. They just fly and teleport right into face and one shot me with a shotgun. NO thanks. Pulse and scout rifles are underpowered right now; Bungie will be addressing this in the near future. But yeah, Skirmish is all shotties and fusion rifles. I avoid it. |
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Post by iw5000 on Sept 29, 2014 20:50:49 GMT -5
After the above, i was feeling the pain and went and played three games of domination too. Lost all three games. I am going mostly positive though. But just can't win. Maybe i am playing against full parties. I don't know. Very annoying.
I recorded my games tonight. I am going to watch them later, to see what i am doing wrong. Or if the game is wrong.
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n1gh7
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Post by n1gh7 on Sept 29, 2014 22:20:12 GMT -5
If you aren't using an auto rifle as your primary, you are certainly at a disadvantage on most maps and especially in a 3v3 mode.
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Post by GodMars on Sept 29, 2014 22:22:33 GMT -5
Winning in the game seems overly difficult, except when you realize that SOMEONE is winning. One afternoon it took me three hours to get the three wins I needed for a bounty. I don't exagerate. Part of that time I ran with a group of Denbros who I rallied to my cause. We only got one of the three wins for our time. But then on other days I rack up wins left and right. I have no idea why, but I assume the match-making system probably has some kinks to be worked out. But I certainly miss the CoD days where three games with the clan meant three handily-won matches.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Sept 29, 2014 23:03:38 GMT -5
If you aren't using an auto rifle as your primary, you are certainly at a disadvantage on most maps and especially in a 3v3 mode. I assume you mean "Pulse" Rifle. iw5000: pick your best Auto Rifle (best in terms of "Impact", forget about the "Attack" number, with secondary concerns on control & mag size) and you should do much better. If you want to see how to better play PvP, I recommend watching some recorded past broadcasts from people who stream Crucible all the time (no need to wait for their live streaming if they record their broadcast). In particular, I like this guy "Ninja" during beta. He is also a Halo pro. Like all streamers, he has a bit of "personality" (I am not going to elaborate assuming you know what I mean ). If you have problems with it, well, maybe mute the soundtrack... |
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n1gh7
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Post by n1gh7 on Sept 30, 2014 0:00:54 GMT -5
If you aren't using an auto rifle as your primary, you are certainly at a disadvantage on most maps and especially in a 3v3 mode. I assume you mean "Pulse" Rifle. iw5000: pick your best Auto Rifle (best in terms of "Impact", forget about the "Attack" number, with secondary concerns on control & mag size) and you should do much better. If you want to see how to better play PvP, I recommend watching some recorded past broadcasts from people who stream Crucible all the time (no need to wait for their live streaming if they record their broadcast). In particular, I like this guy "Ninja" during beta. He is also a Halo pro. Like all streamers, he has a bit of "personality" (I am not going to elaborate assuming you know what I mean ). If you have problems with it, well, maybe mute the soundtrack... Nope, auto. Also, for auto rifles there are 3 impact and RoF combos. Pick one that suits you. Then go from there. |
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Sept 30, 2014 0:18:43 GMT -5
Oh, my bad. Looks like I need education on the 3v3 mode, which I have never played. What primary should be used? or Shotty & FR should be used as if they were "primary"? Given how little I have played this game, especially PvP, I need to shut up giving advices |
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Post by n1gh7 on Sept 30, 2014 1:25:41 GMT -5
It mainly has to do with map size and average engagement distance.
First, auto rifles are undoubtedly better than the other weapons in the primary slot for most players. They are more effective at close engagements (Hold down trigger and attempt to aim at enemy vs. aim at enemy and then pull trigger) and seem to be on par with the other weapons TTKs at longer ranges due to flinch effects. Additionally, the vertical movement abilities punish the accuracy of players who are NOT using auto rifles as their shots are just as uncertain to hit while occurring less frequently. Certainly some players can be effective with the other weapon types at closer range by sticking to the ground, strafing, and having incredible aim, but generally this is not the case.
As for the maps, most are small to medium sized (there are only 2 maps I really consider large) and in 3v3 modes none of the large ones are played (and some of the extra small maps that aren't in 6v6 mode are played). Additionally, the map design (and to some extent the objective gametypes) encourage close encounters and engagements, mainly by breaking up long sight lines and placing areas of interest (ammo crates and objectives) in close quarters area.
Overall, this means that the auto rifle is a best pick in all but a few situations. As for 3v3, shotguns and FRs as "primaries" are very common. In generally through, FRs only work if you know where your opponents are coming from and when they are coming. This makes them better in objective gametypes as you'll know that they'll be coming to the objective and they'll be coming as fast as possible (usually). So they're very situational. This is where auto rifles are nice because you only have to shoot a target as much as you need to kill them. In situations where everyone's health is not at max, shots and therefore time is "wasted" when you are doing extra damage in a single "shot" after someone is dead. For example, if you encounter 2 people with half health at medium-short range, the auto rifle is going to kill both of them faster than a FR or a shotgun.
Anyways, kinda carrying on a bit much, if anyone wants to see have I handle PvP we should really just play a few games together. Playing in groups is always better than playing alone as teamshot is very important in Destiny.
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Post by iw5000 on Sept 30, 2014 8:30:13 GMT -5
Oh, my bad. Looks like I need education on the 3v3 mode, which I have never played. What primary should be used? or Shotty & FR should be used as if they were "primary"? Given how little I have played this game, especially PvP, I need to shut up giving advices 3v3 is a tricky mode. Especially if you are playing solo like I was. With solo 3v3, the opponent seems to be a 3 person party almost all the time. Which means as soon as you die once, get separated from your two teammates...you are fvcked. You can't win a gunfight. You shoot at the opponents, two or three fire back, 'bang', you are dead.And as nigh7 said up there, the encounter range on 3v3 seems to be smaller. I agree with the full auto. I have tried and experimented with other guns (as seen in my recent example) but they just don't seem to work. |
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malgato
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Post by malgato on Sept 30, 2014 10:21:09 GMT -5
My experience playing PvP solo has been bad. We need to group up. My one okay experience was playing with Brown.
I loved Halo MP, but Destiny so far does not seem very similar.
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Post by iw5000 on Sept 30, 2014 10:37:26 GMT -5
I seem to have more good games playing Domination. You can develop spawn and pattern recognition faster in that mode I think. Then start timing shots earlier, to make up for the funky hit counters as well as other quirky stuff going on.
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Post by psychlon on Oct 1, 2014 7:19:54 GMT -5
How much of that experience is still riding the learning curve? Other games had similar things where the only difference was the abilities you could use. Sure.. in a 1 vs. 1 against a similar or better player you most likely will lose but after a while, learning the map/ some tactics it most likely will outweigh the equipment unless some guns are heavily unbalanced. So far I haven't had a CoD like experience against people running around quick-scoping and or dual pistols one shot machines...., that was frustrating. To understand what class can do what and when it's required to run away takes time as well es which weapon is better used in certain situations. I missed yesterday several times to activate the golden gun and pretty much take over an objective all by myself while killing 3 other people in the process. Haven't experienced as much lag as in Battlefield and or CoD (on Playstation).
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Post by daftpunk on Oct 1, 2014 8:11:25 GMT -5
Lets face it , even though i enjoy the MP its an absolute clusterf*ck , i have only one primary i have any sort of success with and its an AR and its a cydonia , and i cant afford any better
Then there is the fkin warlock with revive , 3 times in one match i shot the bastard only for the f'ker to come back to life and kill me , come back last stand all is forgiven..
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, can't help it)
