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Post by psychlon on Oct 2, 2014 8:28:22 GMT -5
If weapon are an issue in Destiny, they will be fixed.
To point 2.. try to use your best Auto Rifle with Highest Impact and try same with whatever shotgun etc. you have. To point 5.. god bless, nothing worse than killing someone only to run into the same guy right after that. Did CoD finally fix their spawn points or can you still spawn right in the middle of the enemy?
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Post by psychlon on Oct 2, 2014 8:32:54 GMT -5
I complained about this a lot. Yet you still played... Until you stopped. I'm a weak minded easy to steer and eager to pay person.... I'm also trying to watch even the crappiest movies until the end even after my wife told me that it's a crappy movie about 30 times and she is off doing something different.
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Post by n1gh7 on Oct 2, 2014 8:42:03 GMT -5
Yeah yeah I know. Thats the point I'm trying to convey... kinda. I just don't see that issue being so important when it wasn't a game breaker in COD. Maybe if it really is that important, it means there is little wrong with the game...
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Post by iw5000 on Oct 2, 2014 8:50:02 GMT -5
Nigh7
CoD makes it pretty clear what the 32 guns are. I can see them. Done. Destiny? I have no fvcking clue. Are there forty? Two hundred? Should I keep what I have, or dump it? The advice to use what others use on me? How? That guy doing well there with the 'BIGWIZARDGUN'...I want to use it to to counter him. Oops. Can't get it. I have to go grind thirty more hours of looting/strikes/patrolling to just HOPE that the Destiny Gods drop it on me.
But does that matter? How do the stats on those guns in the PvE translate into the PvP? Good luck with that. I have the internet's best FPS shooter message board at my disposal (which 99.999999% of the Destiny world doesn't have) and I still cant' really make heads or tails of the connection. Bungie has deliberately blurred the lines with the PvP/PvE stats, and it's impossible to really know the effects and counter effects. My gun is a 320 in PvE. But it's power is neutral in PvP? Not sure. Ok, go by 'Impact'. Ok? But i am told not to compare impact between gun classes, the stat doesn't match up. (insert grown) Can I use a private lobby to test? Nope. Doesn't exist. The above carries over to a lot of stuff. Armor, etc...
Perks? Yes, CoD has a gated/unlock system, but let's be real. A day or two of playing CoD (especially with double XP) and I can have every tool at my disposal that EVERY opponent could possibly use against me. An opponent nails me with the M27, ...i can do that. They do 'x', I have the tools to counter with 'y'. Destiny? Hell fvcking no. I have two weeks of pretty heavy playing and I still don't even have one Subclass completed on my Warlock. Which means there are still advantages other players have over me. And that doesn't even begin to address the problems that are going to occur if I start a second Titan character. That character will get smacked silly doing bounties in the Crucible.
People don't complain about CoD that much, because even without this board, it's relatively simple to figure out. Everything is on the menus. Guns, potential guns, even relationships. Can't say the same for Destiny. Gets back to the original issue many griped about. Very poor delivery of the game, in terms of information. I'm guessing that was one of the things that got cut out, with the plot.
You are right in that you don't HAVE to play PvP. But with limited bounties available, and the constant need to grind, one is at times forced to go try it. And as far as changing playstyles, ...see my point about Destiny not explaining ANY of the relationships between damage, armor and stuff. If you can't really understand the relationships that well, it's hard to know what to adjust too.
I don't mean the TTK to necessarily be a gripe. It's not a fault if a game has a funky TTK. It's just how that game is played. You adjust. But with limited menu/game options, we don't have a lot of choices.
...
...not trying to be some negative nancy. If you know me at all, i'll be right back in there hacking at it again soon enough. But this is what I am seeing now. And in terms of 'why' the game might be getting negative reviews and dislike, my opinions can't be just mine...I am sure there are others.
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Post by psychlon on Oct 2, 2014 9:09:20 GMT -5
Aren't you comparing a lvl based to a non-lvl based game here? The lvl issue in CoD is just the weapons where as in Destiny it is your skills and the weapons.
Therefor if that's an issue... first max lvl your character in skills (at least those which you think make a difference) and go back to PvP after that.
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Post by n1gh7 on Oct 2, 2014 9:15:23 GMT -5
Yeah, I can see where you are coming from on some of this. With privates, we'd have had all the stats knocked out on the first week and much more game knowledge. With a PC version, even more would be possible. Within all of guns, I think there is an over perception of the range of differences between guns of the same type. Honestly, there are 3 different impact/RoF combos for auto rifles. The SUROS REGIME, the most commonly called "OP" AR, has the same impact/RoF as 22 different ARs. All non-exotic. The real differences come within the other stats, which have far less of an impact on gameplay and are balanced within themselves. I think that instead of looking to counter someone with the exact same thing that they are using, one should focus on using something that fits their playstyle. For example, if I am getting reamed by a sniper, I'm not going to switch my special to a sniper. I'm gonna sneak up behind him and bust him open. Overall, Bungie focused much more on what you have vs what is possible. Most likely because there are far too many options. Within yourself through, they give you the compare feature. Which is different and fits nicely IMO. However I agree that this is kinda frustrating, but that is why there are other places to turn where you can find all the options. So if you really want to know what all the weapons are, take a look here. (and other stuff, it's not all complete or accurate, but mostly) www.destinygamewiki.com/wiki/WeaponsAs for playstyles, I think that you still understand the general idea of what is going on based on what is in game, even if it doesn't completely satisfy our unusual desire for more complete information. You know what Armor, Agility, and Recovery mean even if you don't know the exact mechanics of how it is implemented in game. The game's never going to hold your hand in that way, which is why we are here. And I totally get what you're saying. I'm just trying to wrap my head around why things are the way they are by approaching the game from a not-COD direction.
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Post by n1gh7 on Oct 2, 2014 9:19:50 GMT -5
A problem with that is that youre also fighting players who havent reached your level, no? Not everyone likes a dick stomping party. Honestly, they should just add ranked gametypes a la Halo2/Halo3 with separate rankings. That way you can be matched with people of the same competence.
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Post by Dumien on Oct 2, 2014 9:20:21 GMT -5
A problem with that is that youre also fighting players who havent reached your level, no? Not everyone likes a dick stomping party. Level doesn't matter unless you are playing iron banner. Player skill unlocks and weapon skills do matter. Both are locked behind experience gates...though you choose what to put experience into. The only reason that distinction should be made is say the difference between a max level warlock that has fireborn unlocked and one who doesn't. You can do fine with a low level shingen (maybe not so much now that everyone has a suros regime).
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Post by n1gh7 on Oct 2, 2014 9:35:06 GMT -5
Nothing really means anything. So we should just add more stuff!
Level doesn't correspond to how far your subclass tree is unlocked. Nor does it correspond directly to what stuff you have available.
So the best option is to add some other level/ELO/rank thing. Kinda like LOL/DOTA or whatever. Some of the options in those games are even under pay gates right? How do they handle things?
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Post by psychlon on Oct 2, 2014 9:35:46 GMT -5
destinynews.net/crucible-balanced/Level Advantages When level advantages are disabled… What doesn’t carry over (normalized): Base defense Base weapon attack What does carry over: Weapon progression (including damage bonuses) Armor progression (including defense bonuses) Abilities Stat upgrades, progression
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Post by n1gh7 on Oct 2, 2014 9:38:32 GMT -5
What does carry over: Weapon progression (including damage bonuses) Armor progression (including defense bonuses) I have a feeling that this is misleading.
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Post by iw5000 on Oct 2, 2014 9:41:24 GMT -5
Yeah, I can see where you are coming from on some of this. With privates, we'd have had all the stats knocked out on the first week and much more game knowledge. With a PC version, even more would be possible. Within all of guns, I think there is an over perception of the range of differences between guns of the same type. Honestly, there are 3 different impact/RoF combos for auto rifles. The SUROS REGIME, the most commonly called "OP" AR, has the same impact/RoF as 22 different ARs. All non-exotic. The real differences come within the other stats, which have far less of an impact on gameplay and are balanced within themselves. I think that instead of looking to counter someone with the exact same thing that they are using, one should focus on using something that fits their playstyle. For example, if I am getting reamed by a sniper, I'm not going to switch my special to a sniper. I'm gonna sneak up behind him and bust him open. Overall, Bungie focused much more on what you have vs what is possible. Most likely because there are far too many options. Within yourself through, they give you the compare feature. Which is different and fits nicely IMO. However I agree that this is kinda frustrating, but that is why there are other places to turn where you can find all the options. So if you really want to know what all the weapons are, take a look here. (and other stuff, it's not all complete or accurate, but mostly) www.destinygamewiki.com/wiki/WeaponsAs for playstyles, I think that you still understand the general idea of what is going on based on what is in game, even if it doesn't completely satisfy our unusual desire for more complete information. You know what Armor, Agility, and Recovery mean even if you don't know the exact mechanics of how it is implemented in game. The game's never going to hold your hand in that way, which is why we are here. And I totally get what you're saying. I'm just trying to wrap my head around why things are the way they are by approaching the game from a not-COD direction. Here's the thing. I do NOT have the SUROS REGIME yet. I've heard about it, but I don't have it. So there you go, something others have that I don't have. And I have put in what would easily be a couple of CoD Prestige levels at this point. Frustrating. Armor, Recovery and Agility? No. I am not sure what they mean yet. And believe me, I have tried to learn. I watched the video on this board about it. It explained some relationships between them. The person tested for differences, between loadouts with and without, but it was still somewhat unclear. People tell me my Agility/Armor and Recovery stats are in the subclasses. Where? I don't see it. If the Defense rating of 1,200 is neutral for PvP, then why was that video person saying he was testing for classes without and without armor? There's another example of Bungie unnecessarily blurring the lines.
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Post by Dumien on Oct 2, 2014 9:50:28 GMT -5
Suros regime was available to everyone from the weekend vendor for 13 strange coins. You get the coins from doing weekly missions/decrypting engrams/doing public events. The norm.
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Post by n1gh7 on Oct 2, 2014 10:00:51 GMT -5
Yeah, I can see where you are coming from on some of this. With privates, we'd have had all the stats knocked out on the first week and much more game knowledge. With a PC version, even more would be possible. Within all of guns, I think there is an over perception of the range of differences between guns of the same type. Honestly, there are 3 different impact/RoF combos for auto rifles. The SUROS REGIME, the most commonly called "OP" AR, has the same impact/RoF as 22 different ARs. All non-exotic. The real differences come within the other stats, which have far less of an impact on gameplay and are balanced within themselves. I think that instead of looking to counter someone with the exact same thing that they are using, one should focus on using something that fits their playstyle. For example, if I am getting reamed by a sniper, I'm not going to switch my special to a sniper. I'm gonna sneak up behind him and bust him open. Overall, Bungie focused much more on what you have vs what is possible. Most likely because there are far too many options. Within yourself through, they give you the compare feature. Which is different and fits nicely IMO. However I agree that this is kinda frustrating, but that is why there are other places to turn where you can find all the options. So if you really want to know what all the weapons are, take a look here. (and other stuff, it's not all complete or accurate, but mostly) www.destinygamewiki.com/wiki/WeaponsAs for playstyles, I think that you still understand the general idea of what is going on based on what is in game, even if it doesn't completely satisfy our unusual desire for more complete information. You know what Armor, Agility, and Recovery mean even if you don't know the exact mechanics of how it is implemented in game. The game's never going to hold your hand in that way, which is why we are here. And I totally get what you're saying. I'm just trying to wrap my head around why things are the way they are by approaching the game from a not-COD direction. Here's the thing. I do NOT have the SUROS REGIME yet. I've heard about it, but I don't have it. So there you go, something others have that I don't have. And I have put in what would easily be a couple of CoD Prestige levels at this point. Frustrating. Armor, Recovery and Agility? No. I am not sure what they mean yet. And believe me, I have tried to learn. I watched the video on this board about it. It explained some relationships between them. The person tested for differences, between loadouts with and without, but it was still somewhat unclear. People tell me my Agility/Armor and Recovery stats are in the subclasses. Where? I don't see it. If the Defense rating of 1,200 is neutral for PvP, then why was that video person saying he was testing for classes without and without armor? There's another example of Bungie unnecessarily blurring the lines. That's my point through. There are 22 different guns that are less rare than SUROS and have identical impact/RoF and are balance with other aspects. You need to get what works for you and not focus on what others have. I think that the word "armour" is what is confusing here... what you equip in game... boots, chest, helmets, those things aren't your armour. They would be better referred to as gear. Each piece of gear has a defence stat, and other stuff like light, intellect, discipline, and strength. Your armour is a stat that is part of your sub class. go to your character menu (where you switch your guns and stuff) and hit Y while hovering over your subclass (box in the upper left). On that screen, where your upgrade tree is is where Agility, armour, and recovery are. Language is really the culprit here. We have too few words to describe all the different things in the game. Same with how Bungie used the word "light" in at least 5 different things. annoying.
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Post by iw5000 on Oct 2, 2014 10:01:31 GMT -5
Suros regime was available to everyone from the weekend vendor for 13 strange coins. You get the coins from doing weekly missions/decrypting engrams/doing public events. The norm. the 'norm'? It might be the norm if you are someone who has spent hundreds of hours on this game, but it's not to people like me. I don't think I am that dumb either (maybe I am?), nor is it due to not playing enough. I have a fair amount of hours into this. But no clue on the above item. That gets back to my earlier point...Bungie's terrible communication on how to play the game. All the blurred lines. How am I supposed to just 'know' (from what?) that there is a special one time weekend vendor, who will appear in the Tower for a day or two, and that if I bring him strange coins (which I still haven't got 13 of them - so it wouldn't have mattered.
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Post by Dumien on Oct 2, 2014 10:05:15 GMT -5
The weekly strike mission describes the strange coin reward right on it. I was wrong about the 13 coins. I think it was more expensive. Also we had a thread about it. denkirson.proboards.com/thread/7323/
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Post by iw5000 on Oct 2, 2014 10:05:24 GMT -5
That's my point through. There are 22 different guns that are less rare than SUROS and have identical impact/RoF and are balance with other aspects. You need to get what works for you and not focus on what others have. "others have"...I was addressing a point someone recently made to me, how it's no big deal about what I said, I should just use what other people use. I'll have to look tonight. I can't believe I might have missed something there. Then again, I spent DAYS looking to find where my Vanguard Rep pt stat was, only to find out it didn't exist. Thanks Bungie. You had to go to the Vendor to see that stat So hover 'Y' over what?
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Post by iw5000 on Oct 2, 2014 10:08:58 GMT -5
The weekly strike mission describes the strange coin reward right on it. I was wrong about the 13 coins. I think it was more expensive. Well, setting aside I don't that many (I have 7) I have seen missions with the rare coins. I just had no clue what they are used for. And the other bigger problem was I had no clue about the 'link/connection', that those rare coins, taken to a one day vendor, would give me a good gun. I understand Bungie wants to reward people who play this game six hours or more a day, but there are limits here. :-(
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Post by wings on Oct 2, 2014 10:11:27 GMT -5
There is a chance that the Suros Regime will be sold by Xur this weekend as he does repeat stock the following week.
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Post by wings on Oct 2, 2014 10:15:04 GMT -5
The weekly strike mission describes the strange coin reward right on it. I was wrong about the 13 coins. I think it was more expensive. Also we had a thread about it. denkirson.proboards.com/thread/7323/13 is for armour, it is 26 for a weapon.
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Post by malgato on Oct 2, 2014 12:25:20 GMT -5
Stone, go into your subclass menu (where you choose your grenade type, special/super ability, etc.). There are a few ability trees on the right half that talk about specializing in speed or recovery or toughness. There are corresponding bars at the top of your screen that then go up or down. This is your Armor, Recovery, and Agility. These are the stats that matter for PvP. Focus on increasing Recovery and Speed. Armor is less critical for PvP.
This will vary for PvE depending on circumstances, enemy, boss, and party/fireteam role.
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Post by iw5000 on Oct 2, 2014 13:52:40 GMT -5
Stone, go into your subclass menu (where you choose your grenade type, special/super ability, etc.). There are a few ability trees on the right half that talk about specializing in speed or recovery or toughness. There are corresponding bars at the top of your screen that then go up or down. This is your Armor, Recovery, and Agility. These are the stats that matter for PvP. Focus on increasing Recovery and Speed. Armor is less critical for PvP. This will vary for PvE depending on circumstances, enemy, boss, and party/fireteam role. I've looked there before. I must be missing the stat. Will check it again tonight.
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Post by hebbnh on Oct 2, 2014 14:06:07 GMT -5
I don't think that stuff shows up on the companion app for whatever reason. Probably have to check it in-game. But that's definitely the screen you're looking for.
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Post by TheHawkNY on Oct 2, 2014 14:09:48 GMT -5
Stone, go into your subclass menu (where you choose your grenade type, special/super ability, etc.). There are a few ability trees on the right half that talk about specializing in speed or recovery or toughness. There are corresponding bars at the top of your screen that then go up or down. This is your Armor, Recovery, and Agility. These are the stats that matter for PvP. Focus on increasing Recovery and Speed. Armor is less critical for PvP. This will vary for PvE depending on circumstances, enemy, boss, and party/fireteam role. I've looked there before. I must be missing the stat. Will check it again tonight. That screen, fifth column.
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Post by iw5000 on Oct 2, 2014 16:28:39 GMT -5
iOk. Home. ...yes, i know about the three bars up top. Yes, i have seen those before. But they don't really tell me anything. There's no numbers, just bars that give no reference to scale. THAT is what i was referring too.
If i set it to the first one, armor gets cut in half, Recovery goes up by what looks to be a 25%. Ok...half of what? 25% increase on what? If the 1100 def pts are tossed out for PvP, what is my base armor? People have estimated health to be around 95 health, and shields 95, but where does armor fit in there? Titan is higher?
See what i mean, complete ambiguity to what does what.
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Post by n1gh7 on Oct 2, 2014 16:34:15 GMT -5
I see what you mean about there being a lack of reference with those bars. That's why that video that was posted saying min to max armour changing only about 20 hit points is so important. But yeah no scale = dumb. Should have at least put it in the app.
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Post by malgato on Oct 2, 2014 16:59:04 GMT -5
iOk. Home. ...yes, i know about the three bars up top. Yes, i have seen those before. But they don't really tell me anything. There's no numbers, just bars that give no reference to scale. THAT is what i was referring too. If i set it to the first one, armor gets cut in half, Recovery goes up by what looks to be a 25%. Ok...half of what? 25% increase on what? If the 1100 def pts are tossed out for PvP, what is my base armor? People have estimated health to be around 95 health, and shields 95, but where does armor fit in there? Titan is higher? See what i mean, complete ambiguity to what does what. I agree the bars are hard to quantitatively understand. But the video posted in one of these threads does a good job explaining the relative merits of each Stat for PvP. For PvP apparently Recovery>Agility>Armor. Max armor is only around 20 total health more than the Min. This equated to a bullets to kill of 20 vs. 18 for the weakest gun. Max Recovery resulted in a return to full health almost 2 seconds quicker than Min (if I remember correctly). That is a huge difference in PvP. Max Agility resulted in a marginal run speed and jump height increase. Certainly useful in PvP, but not as critical given overall mobility in the game.
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