Den Kirson Forum Clan: Raid Organization

[GodMars]

We've appointed Hazard (xxhazardxx on PSN) as our raid leader PS4-side. Hazard has several years of high-end raiding experience in World of Warcraft, and has a full command of what makes for a successful raiding team. We are, admittedly, a mess right now when it comes to raid organization and execution, but that is to be expected out of a group so new to the raiding scene.

Watch this thread for further information regarding our plans and what not.

[mannon]

Sounds fun! I only just made level 20 so I won't be raid ready for a while yet, but I'm looking forward to it.

[hazard]

First of all I would like to thank Godmars, Witty and the Den Kirson clan for this opportunity.

Just a bit of background on me before I get down to what I expect from any bro that wants to raid. As Godmars had stated I raided at a high level for about 3 years playing world of warcraft. I mainly played a Paladin primarily a healer and a tank. At our highest we were ranked 70th in the US in boss kills. The amount of dedication you had to have to get that high is unfathomable. When new content would come out we would raid anywhere from 30 to 40 hours a week in addition to spending hours apon hours tweaking my class, gear, spec, farming for materials, watching videos, etc. All this could be done just to squeeze out an extra 2 or 3 damage per second which doesn't seem like a lot but when 24 other people are doing it makes a difference. About a year being into that guild our raid leader stepped away from the game due to personal issues and nominated me as the logical choice to replace him. Naturally I accepted it and we kept rolling along at the same pace. Not only did I have to try to keep myself and the other raiders alive with my spells, make call outs for one shot spells, make sure we were stacked up spread out etc, explaining fight mechanics to our raid and even sometimes we were going in blind. Anyways, thats enough about that lets move on to what I expect of you bros.

Just a little bit of raid etiquette when we are all in a fireteam.
1) This is the biggest one for me. Saying stuff over the Mic that is not relevant to the encounter while we are pulling the boss is uneeded chatter. Also chatter like "I'm dead he hits like a truck" that's all fine and dandy but we don't know whose dead and we don't need to know how you died. Simply can be but "Hazard down"

2) Show up to raids prepared. I will be posting videos and writing up strategies for when new content comes out. Make sure you have ammo packs, weapons, gear you will need for the raid, and most importantly the correct level.

3) Know your class. I know most of you already do but spending time making sure you can do the most damage you can on fights with strict enrage timers are key and make all the difference

4) Personal accountability. As we have all realized so far there is quite a bit of this in Destinys raids don't make excuses if you messed up don't try to pass the buck it's just going to frustrate the team and make others angry and we don't need that.

Now what you bros can expect from me. A fun yet serious atmosphere where we can progress at a high level. We have a great group of guys and I think we can make quite a splash and make a run at some higher end clans. I'm looking at you Dumien! A little friendly competition never hurt!

Anyways now that you guys just got crit by a wall of text from me I am looking forward to this we are going to be a great team and feel we can progress. Expect for me to get with everyone and find out your availability and see if we can set a couple days aside with specific times to raid so we aren't just trying to put a raid together with whoever is on. We have almost 12 people on PS4 side so we might be able to put two teams together but we will see. Ideally I would like to put together a roster of 8 people for subs and if someone can't be there. Well thats all folks and most importantly before I sign off....

You are my bro, bro!

[wittyscorpion]

Sounds great.

While this thread is PS4 oriented (GodMars: maybe you can change the title of the thread to make it more general, something like "Den Kirson Forum Clan: Raiding organization discussions"), it does not prevent us from discussing Raiding strategies in general. Since I have yet to play Destiny Raid and know almost nothing about it, I'll shy away from any specific strategy discussions of how to beat VoG, but to focus on sharing my 2 cents about the"organization" side. Note that I have never played MMO and have zero Raid experience, so whatever I am about to say could be naive at the best. I am just trying to throw something out there to inspire discussions.

Below are my random thoughts of how Raid organization could work (these thoughts are truly random, I am just writing down what I think):

1) Raid leaders can be either nominated by others or self nominated;

2) Raid leaders should have the absolute authority to decide who to include in his Raid team or not. The team members he selected, especially the inexperienced ones, should follow instructions from the leader on how to set up loadout and what to equip;

3) Chemistry is very important for Raid. Bros can first try to self organize into 2/3-person-fireteam and play story/strike missions, get to know each other better and see with whom you have the most chemistry;

4) Once we have some solid 3-person fireteams formed, Raiding organization can become a lot easier by just pairing up 2 fire teams. This is more preferable than just getting 6 players on the fly with nobody knows anybody and try to just "wing" it. Disasters usually await when this happens;

5) Raid leaders are preferably players who have beaten the Raid, or at least has done a lot of online research and very knowledgeable about how to beat the Raid;

6) Ideally team members should be at least knowledgeable about how to beat the Raid. However, I understand that some bros prefer to go in blind and enjoy the surprises (not sure whether that's important or even practical). At the every least, each member should know what to equip before going in;

7) The most difficult part of Raiding is to align play times among all participants. I can imagine that to get the same 6 players to all play at the same hours across multiple days can be nearly impossible. At the current stage, I think that it is totally OK to have "trial" Raid teams that can only commit to one time slot (e.g.: Tuesday evening, 8 pm - midnight). It is more important to gain experience about the Raid than having to beat it right away. This trial period is also a great time for testing the chemistry among members;

8) Raid leaders (and high level bros) who are experienced at the Raid can consider organizing multiple Raids per week, using different characters when you need to run them in parallel. One of you main goals is to serve as the "drill sergeant" of Raid, and each Raiding you lead is like a bootcamp training, showing ropes to "newbies". Feel free to be harsh to the new recruits just like how drill sergeants do it in the Army ;

9) If we keep doing this, before long we will have bros with different experiences:

Leaders
Seasoned players who have beaten the Raid on normal at least once;
Players who have gone through a "training" session;
Recruits who have not had a chance to play Raid yet and are blessed with total ignorance of what they are about to face;

We will have more freedom to mix and match based on chemistry, experience level, and play time. That's when the really fun will start.

Again, just my 2 cents. Feel free to throw bricks at me for naivety I demonstrated in this post.

[Dumien]

I think it is important to note that one or two players can go through a raid without knowing all of tasks required to complete any given area. Take for example two new raid players we picked up yesterday. At the pre-Atheon fight we just put them on the left and right gate each buddied with an experienced player and said "look towards that spawn. If you see a Praetorian. Call it out." That was their job. They didn't need to know that people were inside the portals getting relics. All they needed to know was "defend this spot." They did fine.

Later in the Atheon fight they didn't do as well because there were more moving parts and more "loss conditions." We still won once we figured out to tell them "Stick on Post (me) and keep him safe." While the other three experienced players got the relic and the oracles. After that...once we got the boss we were like "Shoot the boss. Watch out for the harpies!"

Raiding is a very job oriented challenge. My regular group completed normal Raid without failing (except for a disconnection) because we did the same jobs every time. If we were somehow put into a different job it certainly would not have gone so smooth.

What a Raid leader needs is to be aware of all possible jobs and what is required of players for those jobs. Then, you put players into those jobs (usually only if they are comfortable doing it).

Sept 24, 2014 14:59:07 GMT -5 hazard said:

I'm looking at you Dumien! A little friendly competition never hurt!

Bring it on Bro!

I'm a little sad we don't have a good amount of Raid-ready bros on the Den forums (XB1 side). I would love to play with them. Right now I'm just playing with some guys I met from a GAF clan (even though I've never been to GAF lol).

[n1gh7]

Hopefully I'll be raid ready when the other XB1 bros are. (Althrough I'm not entirely sure what constitutes as "raid ready")

[Dumien]

Ideally... 27-28 with weapons able to put down a praetorian within a reasonable amount of time (10-15 seconds) w/ heavy ammo. You can practice on Venus patrol! That translates to being able to teamkill (team of 2) one in reasonable time. As Hazard mentioned, ammo packs are also super important. Sometimes ammo drops are scarce and hunting for ammo should not be people's #1 priority (especially when there is green insta-death sludge in the way or an oracle needs to be popped). Most of my glimmer goes into heavy ammo packs.

I'm always keeping an eye on my friends list and trying to bring new players into the mix. The more raid ready people, the more frequently we can afford to raid, the more people we can get all geared up for the future.

[wittyscorpion]

Sept 25, 2014 2:46:16 GMT -5 Dumien said:

I'm always keeping an eye on my friends list and trying to bring new players into the mix. The more raid ready people, the more frequently we can afford to raid, the more people we can get all geared up for the future.

I am thinking about the same thing. At the current stage the primary goal is to get as many bros through the following pipe as we can:

Newbie -> Raid ready -> Raid experienced -> Beat the Raid on normal -> Seasoned Raid players -> Raid leaders

The more players who have higher up the pipe, the easier to bring more bros through the pipe. Ideally we want to have a large player base by December when the first Expansion is coming out (hopefully with a new Raid).

We also don't necessarily need to limit our player base to just the DenK group. Bungie.net has an "alliance" feature, which is basically a group of groups/clans affiliated with each other. If used effectively, this might be a good way to expand player base as well. For example, we can form an alliance between DenK and HSV1.

[wings]

I would be willing to do Raids but I am a previous gen user.

[hebbnh]

Don't know if there needs to be a formal process or anything for this, but I'd like to nominate Dumien as the XONE raid leader. I think his resume speaks for itself.

Also, I'd like to nominate myself and THebb22 as a 2 person or part of a 3 person fireteam if that's the route the group wants to go. We've been playing games together for 20 years so it only seems logical. We could both be at 27-28 at any time (and in all probability will be this weekend, assuming Xur has something good for my Hunter and his Titan), we've just been hoarding shards and holding off buying any new legendary stuff while the Queen's Wrath event is running.

Also also, I'd like to suggest Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, or Thursday night(s) as "Raid Time" -- preferably Tuesday or Thursday since they fall pretty soon after the weekly reset. Sunday/Monday might be too long of a wait. THebb22 and I are both unavailable on Wednesdays. Fridays and Saturdays are right out, except on very rare occasions.

[mannon]

We may need our more experienced bros to help out on multiple teams for a while so it might make sense to split Raid Leader and Team Leader into two different roles, (though they could both be filled by the same person). Team leaders would be responsible for their teams, for organizing, equipping, scheduling, ect... Raid leaders would be lending experience to get the team through the raid and would probably assume command during the actual raid, or could simply advise the team leader if the team leader is pretty experienced, but needs some help with the raid details.

I don't imagine raid leaders will have time to help out on more than a small handful of teams, though and will likely have a team of their own they are primarily concerned with.

Sadly I can't really join in the fun for a while as I won't be raid ready for a good while I imagine. I will try to play some this weekend, but next week I'm out of town and I'm only level 20 with a couple of blue's and mostly greens on my Warlock so I have a long way to go. I don't know if I should even bother with the Queen's Wrath at level 20 given I won't have a ton of time for it, but we'll see. I switched over to Sunsinger when I hit 15, though my skills are still pretty low with it, I'm sure that will change. I'll just lurk for another month or so until I'm ready. ;3

Eventually my brother and I may both be raid ready, but he doesn't even play as much as I do and is only up to level 10 so far. (I keep my hunter his level so we can team up.)

[hebbnh]

I'd suggest you try to do some Queen's Wrath stuff if you have a chance. Free legendaries/shards are pretty nice, especially if you don't have a ton of time to play and stock up on vanguard and/or crucible marks.

[mannon]

Any advice on getting raid ready not already mentioned? (Level 27 minimum with exotic weapon capable of taking out Praetorians? quickly.) Is this best achieved via purchasing items from NPC's do you think?

I somewhat enjoy the loot cave, but I don't want to spend too much time there as it does not provide combat experience that I will need and there's not much worse than a high level player who has no idea how to play their class. ;p I've seen enough powerleveled useless high level characters in MMO's to know I want to avoid being one.

[TheHawkNY]

Sept 25, 2014 9:25:08 GMT -5 mannon said:

Any advice on getting raid ready not already mentioned? (Level 27 minimum with exotic weapon capable of taking out Praetorians? quickly.) Is this best achieved via purchasing items from NPC's do you think?

I somewhat enjoy the loot cave, but I don't want to spend too much time there as it does not provide combat experience that I will need and there's not much worse than a high level player who has no idea how to play their class. ;p I've seen enough powerleveled useless high level characters in MMO's to know I want to avoid being one.

Do the weekly strikes, and the daily stories, on as high a level as possible, both in order to challenge yourself, and unlock the better rewards. Do all of the daily bounties you reasonably can. Make sure when you turn in bounties, you have equipped things that you want to upgrade so the XP is applied to them. If you run out of bounties, do patrol and hunt for materials (Spinmetal, Helium Shards, Spirit Bloom, and Relic Iron) so that when you have the opportunity to upgrade your armor, you are able to.

[hebbnh]

1. Queen's Wrath for free and fairly easy legendary helmet, chest, and sniper rifle, or at least a couple of those. Break down any duplicates for shards. Haven't seen any reports of gauntlets, boots, or any other weapon drops from this yet. Maybe they'll switch it up next week?
2. Buy whatever exotics you can afford from Xur over the weekend. Hopefully they're not the same slot as what you get from Queen's Wrath.
3. Buy whatever you're still missing from the Vanguard/Crucible/Faction of your choice, assuming you have enough reputation to do so. Hope you've got some marks saved up!
4. If all else fails, hope you get really lucky from engram drops.

[mannon]

I don't really have marks saved up, though I've done a dozen patrols or so and turned in about the same number of bounties so maybe I'm wrong, still that's not a lot and I get the impression it takes ages to grind up the Vanguard faction. I do have spinmetal I'm hoarding, but I'm guessing it's better spent on upgrades than faction.

Reality is I'll do what I can this weekend, but I'll only be able to get started. I'll probably be a month before I can make it up to 27ish, but the advice will be very handy for that. Thank you!

[Dumien]

Sept 25, 2014 5:51:11 GMT -5 wittyscorpion said:

Sept 25, 2014 2:46:16 GMT -5 Dumien said:

We also don't necessarily need to limit our player base to just the DenK group. Bungie.net has an "alliance" feature, which is basically a group of groups/clans affiliated with each other. If used effectively, this might be a good way to expand player base as well. For example, we can form an alliance between DenK and HSV1.

This was my main (not secret) motivation for reaching out to Aroc. HSV1 is an excellent resource for dedicated players.

[wittyscorpion]

I am working on it. It's not hard to set up Alliance (once you understand what the hell is going on behind the scenes, which is not very obvious at the first glance), the main issue is to come up with a "politically" correct name that everybody can associate with.

I was thinking "Den Bros United", but that is still too limiting. There are other groups/clans we want to get into this Alliance.

I am tempted to simply go with "The Alliance"

EDIT: "The Alliance" is taken (big surprise there! ), so I named it "The Alliance of Legends".

[Dumien]

Sept 25, 2014 9:25:08 GMT -5 mannon said:

Any advice on getting raid ready not already mentioned? (Level 27 minimum with exotic weapon capable of taking out Praetorians? quickly.) Is this best achieved via purchasing items from NPC's do you think?

I somewhat enjoy the loot cave, but I don't want to spend too much time there as it does not provide combat experience that I will need and there's not much worse than a high level player who has no idea how to play their class. ;p I've seen enough powerleveled useless high level characters in MMO's to know I want to avoid being one.

If Raid is an excersise in administration and small job execution, then nightfall is the ultimate test of a fireteam. Nightfall has the potential to be the most soul crushing challenge in Destiny. If you can get a group of guys who can communicate well enough to get through one without much mishap...then that is a good sign you are raid ready (in the personal skill sense).

This week's is the easiest nightfall challenge yet, since the enemies are not linked with the burn effect. (most do arc/void damage and the burn multiplier is solar).

[mannon]

What level for nightfall? Might be worth trying with my Sunsinger. I... think I have some fire element items, I'm fairly certain I have every element fusion rifle at least.

[Dumien]

26-28. Very similar setup to Raid.

The only reason I say 26...is because during Nightfall you can actually afford to take your time. Enemies don't have kill clocks.

[mannon]

Ahhh okay. I won't be doing Nightfall any time soon either then.

[wittyscorpion]

mannon: if you are at level 20, you can play Strike playlists first. It has several variations at level 18, 20, 22, and 24, and supports matchmaking. Work up your levels from there to level 26, then you can consider the Nightfall weekly strike. If I understand correctly, you need two buddies to play with you because it does not support matchmaking.

[GodMars]

Ok, we had a bit of a problem tonight that needs to be addressed. A raid was scheduled for PS4 Denbros at 8PM EST this evening. When our raid leader and another member logged in for the raid this evening, they found a few of our members (who where being counted on for the 8PM raid) already in the raid with another group. Needless to say, the scheduled raid did not happen as planned. Obviously, this is not cool. The raid was scheduled for a time that would be doable for members both young and old, who otherwise live on different schedules due to work and school. Yes, the raid can be run several times in a week for those willing to do so, but I expect members who want to be a part of DenK raiding to be ready to go when the time comes (when real life permits, of course) and not running with friends or a pick-up group. Not everyone has the luxury of raiding when they want, and to blow off a scheduled raid is inconsiderate of those who have limited time to play. Being part of a clan means being part of a community. There is plenty of time in the week for casual raiding with other people.

And yes, I know we aren't a Touch Football group, and I am not expecting that sort of commitment. But I do expect clan members to be considerate of their fellow members.

[tooros]

I wish I was in a different Time-Zone.

[psychlon]

If anyone could help me out here.

1. Does anyone have experience playing with people not on the same continent? (how is the connection, as to what I understood, the person with the best connection will be the reference for everyone else?!)
2. What happens if you are being logged out from the game , are you put back where you were before or do you have to travel all the way back to the current location?
3. Can I see my ping/ fps anywhere ingame?

[tooros]

Oct 3, 2014 2:26:57 GMT -5 psychlon said:

If anyone could help me out here.

1. Does anyone have experience playing with people not on the same continent? (how is the connection, as to what I understood, the person with the best connection will be the reference for everyone else?!)
2. What happens if you are being logged out from the game , are you put back where you were before or do you have to travel all the way back to the current location?
3. Can I see my ping/ fps anywhere ingame?

I played CoD with a couple of people from here (US) and I'm in the UK.

That wasn't always ideal but it was perfectly doable.

In PvE I can't see it being such a problem.

As for drop outs etc - Destiny has it's moments but, You can just rejoin and usually aren't too far away. I'd try it on a strike first - just to check rewards etc. I wouldn't want to struggle through a raid and find out I was missing the loot because the game thought I hadn't completed it fully or similar.

[psychlon]

Oct 3, 2014 7:35:09 GMT -5 tooros said:

Oct 3, 2014 2:26:57 GMT -5 psychlon said:

If anyone could help me out here.

1. Does anyone have experience playing with people not on the same continent? (how is the connection, as to what I understood, the person with the best connection will be the reference for everyone else?!)
2. What happens if you are being logged out from the game , are you put back where you were before or do you have to travel all the way back to the current location?
3. Can I see my ping/ fps anywhere ingame?

I played CoD with a couple of people from here (US) and I'm in the UK.

That wasn't always ideal but it was perfectly doable.

In PvE I can't see it being such a problem.

As for drop outs etc - Destiny has it's moments but, You can just rejoin and usually aren't too far away. I'd try it on a strike first - just to check rewards etc. I wouldn't want to struggle through a raid and find out I was missing the loot because the game thought I hadn't completed it fully or similar.

I have had my share of experiences over the last 10-15 years of raiding and what you say sounds surprisingly good. I will still blame connection on PvP until I have a somewhat decent gun with some sweet modifiers.