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Post by GodMars on Oct 7, 2014 20:48:55 GMT -5
We're on our way to Atheon now. Full, 6-man DenK team: Myself, Hawk, Vindictive, Jonesy, Kade, and x2Piece.
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Oct 8, 2014 6:29:39 GMT -5
Not trying to thundersteal here... We did hard Raid 3x times yesterday. 3 of our players now have mythoclast (and another regular D3vilman). Croft, Bishop, Speedy, and Ji66aMan all have level 30 now too.
Ice and I got left in the dust! No boots for us! However, I finally got atheon's epilogue AND the hard mode arc damage hand cannon. Wasn't that bad of a pull for me.
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Post by GodMars on Oct 8, 2014 7:36:54 GMT -5
We were not so fortunate; we stalled out on first-phase Atheon. I think perhaps I should hold off on hard mode until I hit 30 and get more normal practice in. Perhaps some better weapons, too.
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Post by TheHawkNY on Oct 8, 2014 9:57:37 GMT -5
Not trying to thundersteal here... We did hard Raid 3x times yesterday. 3 of our players now have mythoclast (and another regular D3vilman). Croft, Bishop, Speedy, and Ji66aMan all have level 30 now too. Ice and I got left in the dust! No boots for us! However, I finally got atheon's epilogue AND the hard mode arc damage hand cannon. Wasn't that bad of a pull for me. Regarding the Vex Mythoclast - how is it handling for your guys in PvE? Personally, I'm having huge issues with ammo capacity. None of my armor buffs fusion rifle ammo capacity - I need a raid chestpiece and boots, so I'm hoping to get them, and praying they'll have that buff. But doing the raid last night, I had to stop using the Vex at points, because it simply didn't have enough ammo to get me through a section. |
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Oct 8, 2014 11:12:21 GMT -5
We were not so fortunate; we stalled out on first-phase Atheon. I think perhaps I should hold off on hard mode until I hit 30 and get more normal practice in. Perhaps some better weapons, too. Dumien, is the above the strat you use for hard mode as well? We had some issues last night with this and I was looking for some advice on how to get through this as smoothly as possible in the future. I think I might have some solid advice for you guys at this section. We are actually pretty proud of this specific strat because of its general efficiency, complexity, and the fact we came up with it.  But before I get to that...Rockets are the most important weapon for hard raid....specifically the Gjallarhorn (some cool trivia in that link). We are guilty of leaning pretty heavily on rockets and thus heavy ammo packs for failures. I personally don't have the Gjallarhorn...that was the one Xur item I thought wouldn't be good...and I was sorely mistaken. I do, however have a void unfriendly giant. The unfriendly giant fills the role that we need... First we attack the left side's portal. Three defend while three go in. The three on the outside kill the first praetorian. One of the three going in fires the Gjallarhorn (one rocket at mobs and one rocket at the boss) and immediately leaves so he doesn't get marked by darkness. This usually kills all the mobs and takes a huge chunk off of the boss. The other two on the inside whittle the boss down and mop up the remaining mobs (if there are any). Then, the second leaves so the darkness doesn't mark him. At this point there are 5 players on the outside killing the second praetorian...if everything has gone according to plan. Then the remaing bladedancer hunter finishes the boss. One of the defenders is up in the sniper perch next to the leftmost gate (this is my role). The bladedancer announces the boss is dead he escapes with the relic... cloaking if need be. Now we shift. This part is big...and timed. 5 players shift right to the rightmost portal (venus). Upon notification, the person on the sniper perch runs to the center where the Minotaur spawns and becomes the "sacrificial lamb." There is also a sound cue in the form of a loud deep grinding sound. This player should get right up on the miunotaur spawn while using the pillar as cover so the hobgoblins and goblins at the center don't aggro you. This is one guardian vs infinite minotaur spawns with 9-10 second windows between spawns. Their goal is to kill the minotaurs and stall them as long as humanly possible using rockets and aggro pulling tactics while dodging the goblins spawning from behind. Anything to prevent them from sacrificing the the conflux. I personally used rockets and the titan bubble for this. This person's job is to conserve rocket ammo during the initial phase and try to pick up as much heavy ammo as possible. Then you fire rockets until empty. Then, when you are out of ammo, between minotaur spawns, quickly navigate through your menu and pop a heavy ammo synthesis. Continue until you are empty. After this, I use the titan bubble with blessing of light and play nazi zombies with the minotaurs by forcing them to aggro me instead of teleporting to the conflux. I weave in and out of the pillars while sometimes having 4-5 minotaurs chasing me. In the meantime... The person with the first relic and another bladedancer run into the portal with the initial gjallarhorn guy. This leaves two to defend against the first praetorian. The gjallarhorn guy does the same as the first portal...fire a few shots at the boss and flee. The relic super does about half damage to the boss. Relic guy also cleanses if need be. Have everyone but the relicless bladedancer leave. Then the that bladedancer steals the relic with cloak and flees. The 2-4 on the outside (depending on when the gjallarhorn guy and first relic guy return) take care of the mobs. At this point the sacrificial lamb might be dead, though it should have bought enough time. The other 5 players rush to the conflux to defend it with the relic guys coordinating against the praetorian. Victory ensues. Rockets are important. Rockets = time. The faster the time...the faster your success...because of those infinite minotaur spawns. We also have a new Atheon plan that is super efficient if you are interested. |
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Oct 8, 2014 11:14:49 GMT -5
Not trying to thundersteal here... We did hard Raid 3x times yesterday. 3 of our players now have mythoclast (and another regular D3vilman). Croft, Bishop, Speedy, and Ji66aMan all have level 30 now too. Ice and I got left in the dust! No boots for us! However, I finally got atheon's epilogue AND the hard mode arc damage hand cannon. Wasn't that bad of a pull for me. Regarding the Vex Mythoclast - how is it handling for your guys in PvE? Personally, I'm having huge issues with ammo capacity. None of my armor buffs fusion rifle ammo capacity - I need a raid chestpiece and boots, so I'm hoping to get them, and praying they'll have that buff. But doing the raid last night, I had to stop using the Vex at points, because it simply didn't have enough ammo to get me through a section. Mythoclast is really good for supplicants and melting Atheon himself. The people on relic/oracle duty are better off with something like Vision of confluence or found verdict. (people have been going nuts over FV in particular). |
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Post by TheHawkNY on Oct 8, 2014 11:30:19 GMT -5
Definitely interested in the new Atheon plan.
As for the gatekeeper phase, that's an interesting strategy. I don't think we have anyone with the Gjallarhorn, we all thought the same thing you did. Jonesy does have the Cure, which has field scout, and his boots and chest armor also have heavy ammo capacity buffs. I believe he said he could hold 13 rockets, so we may want to see if he can hold down that role.
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Oct 8, 2014 12:04:06 GMT -5
Sure thing,
Three on relic team outfitted with oracle slaying stuff and rockets to deal with the mobs (specifically the mobs on Venus side). Getting past the first teleport is the trickiest part..as I'm sure you guys have already figured out. The three on the outside should have supplicant melters...mythoclasts...hand cannons...shotsguns...fusion rifles (I use the plan-C to one shot the supplicants). Also, the Defender titans should be on the outside... Gunslinger Hunters and Warlock Voidwalkers (we use voidwalker for the mob clearing) make good relic side players.
One of the guys on the outside sits on the sniper perch above the leftmost portal. He never moves from that spot unless a player goes down and needs a role replaced. His goal is to keep the other two safe from supplicants and to make sure the people coming through the portal are safe/aware of what is going on.
The other two should be in seperate locations during the atheon teleport in case the detain bubble screws them over and a stray supplicant enters. Having one die is fine. Having two die is unacceptable. One of these two should be the defender titan.
So how this plays out...
The three in the back wait to get teleported like always. The two running on the outside shoot out of their detain bubble... making sure to be on top of the portal opening ring(where supplicants can't explode you (this is only a real issue in every cycle after the first). Then, the titans (or titan) make their way to the correct portal and focus on killing the supplicants around the correct gate. Meanwhile on relic side, after killing all the mobs, the relic guy provides info on when they expect to be out of the portal. Accordingly the defender titan drops Weapons of light (if there are two titans one can drop blessing of light) right outside the portal (supplicant side) so players leaving the portal will have to run through it. In a similar manner, the person on the sniper perch should provide communication if the portal is not clear of supplicants.
This part is important. The relic guy runs through the weapons of light bubble (and everyone else) and jumps to the center platform. This platform is special because supplicants cant explode there. Then he holds the relic shield. Everyone except the guy on the sniper perch then proceeds to jump in the shield. Make sure you have everyone crouch...this has the best chance of preventing the glitch where Atheon kills you anyways...everyone should be immune from all damage at this point. Throw everything you have at Atheon (except rockets...sometimes they glitch and explode agaisnt the relic shield). If supplicants have been a problem (in the later rounds they definitely will since the outside team isn't focusing on them during the Times' Vengeance portion), then you should have one gunslinger focus on taking out as many supplicants as possible with the unlimited golden gun. Then, when 5 seconds is left on time's vengeance (the relic guy should be keeping time) he yells "NOW!" or something. The defender titans drop a shield. The relic team runs back under cover of the shield. The outside team escapes to the left or right. Ideally the outside team wants to jump all the way to the portal opening ring so the supplicants can't get you upon detain.
Rinse. Repeat.
There are multiple reasons this is so efficient... You have 5 players unleashing on Atheon for almost the full time. His crit points will always be visible. You have time to use ammo packs/communicate. You have one person almost entirely dedicated to communication/support (the sniper perch guy)...who can also replace a fallen teammate.
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Post by 2piece on Oct 8, 2014 12:20:21 GMT -5
Dumien, thank you for the very detailed strat of who,what,when and where I usually try to fill the sacrificial lamb role in the middle after the first portal is cleared because I also have Unfriendly Giant (Void). The main problems I run into are the trash mobs/hobgoblins that are absolutely relentless behind you, I'm sure your bubble helps a lot with this + Weapons of light for faster Minnie kills. I main a Sunlock mainly because I will sooner or later get over run in mid and self rez at least gives me one more frenzy of nades to hold them off for as long as possible before I do finally go down for the count. Once I am out of rockets it is only a matter of time before I'm done. This has worked for me flawlessly on lvl 26 but on lvl 30 I don't think I am buying enough time for my team to get out of the second portal to finally defend the conflux. Hawk, if you can get lucky and snag Heart of Praxis chest piece it has buffs for Heavy and Fusion rifle ammo capacity. I can carry up to 8 rockets with that buff alone. |
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Post by TheHawkNY on Oct 8, 2014 12:39:59 GMT -5
Hawk, if you can get lucky and snag Heart of Praxis chest piece it has buffs for Heavy and Fusion rifle ammo capacity. I can carry up to 8 rockets with that buff alone. I need that so bad. I have the exotic helmet and gloves, and they're both so meh. The raid gear drops I've received so far have been - you guessed it - a helmet and gloves. I already have the Vex Mythoclast and Pocket Infinity. That chest piece is the perfect compliment to everything I already have. When I walk up to Xur on Friday and he's got the Sunbreakers again I'm going to throw my controller out of the window, down three stories onto the street. |
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Post by TheHawkNY on Oct 8, 2014 12:50:57 GMT -5
Sure thing, Three on relic team outfitted with oracle slaying stuff and rockets to deal with the mobs (specifically the mobs on Venus side). Getting past the first teleport is the trickiest part..as I'm sure you guys have already figured out. The three on the outside should have supplicant melters...mythoclasts...hand cannons...shotsguns...fusion rifles (I use the plan-C to one shot the supplicants). Also, the Defender titans should be on the outside... Gunslinger Hunters and Warlock Voidwalkers (we use voidwalker for the mob clearing) make good relic side players. One of the guys on the outside sits on the sniper perch above the leftmost portal. He never moves from that spot unless a player goes down and needs a role replaced. His goal is to keep the other two safe from supplicants and to make sure the people coming through the portal are safe/aware of what is going on. The other two should be in seperate locations during the atheon teleport in case the detain bubble screws them over and a stray supplicant enters. Having one die is fine. Having two die is unacceptable. One of these two should be the defender titan. So how this plays out... The three in the back wait to get teleported like always. The two running on the outside shoot out of their detain bubble... making sure to be on top of the portal opening ring(where supplicants can't explode you (this is only a real issue in every cycle after the first). Then, the titans (or titan) make their way to the correct portal and focus on killing the supplicants around the correct gate. Meanwhile on relic side, after killing all the mobs, the relic guy provides info on when they expect to be out of the portal. Accordingly the defender titan drops Weapons of light (if there are two titans one can drop blessing of light) right outside the portal (supplicant side) so players leaving the portal will have to run through it. In a similar manner, the person on the sniper perch should provide communication if the portal is not clear of supplicants. This part is important. The relic guy runs through the weapons of light bubble (and everyone else) and jumps to the center platform. This platform is special because supplicants cant explode there. Then he holds the relic shield. Everyone except the guy on the sniper perch then proceeds to jump in the shield. Make sure you have everyone crouch...this has the best chance of preventing the glitch where Atheon kills you anyways...everyone should be immune from all damage at this point. Throw everything you have at Atheon (except rockets...sometimes they glitch and explode agaisnt the relic shield). If supplicants have been a problem (in the later rounds they definitely will since the outside team isn't focusing on them during the Times' Vengeance portion), then you should have one gunslinger focus on taking out as many supplicants as possible with the unlimited golden gun. Then, when 5 seconds is left on time's vengeance (the relic guy should be keeping time) he yells "NOW!" or something. The defender titans drop a shield. The relic team runs back under cover of the shield. The outside team escapes to the left or right. Ideally the outside team wants to jump all the way to the portal opening ring so the supplicants can't get you upon detain. Rinse. Repeat. There are multiple reasons this is so efficient... You have 5 players unleashing on Atheon for almost the full time. His crit points will always be visible. You have time to use ammo packs/communicate. You have one person almost entirely dedicated to communication/support (the sniper perch guy)...who can also replace a fallen teammate. This is pretty much what we have been doing. First portal run is the toughest, because you probably don't have charged Supers. Voidwalker hopefully takes out the Minotaur/Hobgoblins. I am on relic duty so I actually can't speak to what's going on outside the portal - we have discussed trying to get a Titan shield at the portal exit to get that extra weapons buff and a little protection against supplicants, but my understanding is that things are generally too hairy on the outside to consistently make that happen. We do the standard jump to the center platform, unload everything except rockets (hadn't thought about crouching, I'll pass that on). We generally pop Titan shield at 1 second left, and relic team jumps to the back of the room. |
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Oct 8, 2014 12:53:23 GMT -5
Dumien, thank you for the very detailed strat of who,what,when and where I usually try to fill the sacrificial lamb role in the middle after the first portal is cleared because I also have Unfriendly Giant (Void). The main problems I run into are the trash mobs/hobgoblins that are absolutely relentless behind you, I'm sure your bubble helps a lot with this + Weapons of light for faster Minnie kills. I main a Sunlock mainly because I will sooner or later get over run in mid and self rez at least gives me one more frenzy of nades to hold them off for as long as possible before I do finally go down for the count. Once I am out of rockets it is only a matter of time before I'm done. This has worked for me flawlessly on lvl 26 but on lvl 30 I don't think I am buying enough time for my team to get out of the second portal to finally defend the conflux. Hawk, if you can get lucky and snag Heart of Praxis chest piece it has buffs for Heavy and Fusion rifle ammo capacity. I can carry up to 8 rockets with that buff alone. I hope it helps. So sad we can't play cross-plat. Would have loved to raid with you guys. If you can get right up on that spawn...the trash mobs actually won't aggro you if you put yourself between them and the leftmost tilted white pillar. I have two videos for you on this as well... The first is me having super preparation and everything going horribly wrong...people didn't do it fast enough...i forget i have nades.. (we get the prize, but no checkpoint) The second is me having no preparation ammo and a synthesis cooldown and everything going right...I play well. Everyone is fast. (we get the prize and the checkpoint). |
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Oct 8, 2014 12:59:49 GMT -5
This is pretty much what we have been doing. First portal run is the toughest, because you probably don't have charged Supers. Voidwalker hopefully takes out the Minotaur/Hobgoblins. I am on relic duty so I actually can't speak to what's going on outside the portal - we have discussed trying to get a Titan shield at the portal exit to get that extra weapons buff and a little protection against supplicants, but my understanding is that things are generally too hairy on the outside to consistently make that happen. We do the standard jump to the center platform, unload everything except rockets (hadn't thought about crouching, I'll pass that on). We generally pop Titan shield at 1 second left, and relic team jumps to the back of the room. Yeah, I don't think we came up with it. Its just way better than what we used to be doing with everyone just shooting from different parts of the map. Gotta bring order to that chaos yo. |
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Post by 2piece on Oct 8, 2014 13:52:16 GMT -5
The videos made it very clear where I was going wrong...I have to get up there faster before the first one spawns and I have to be behind that pillar to shield my back from the trash.
One thing that I do differently that might help your rockets last longer is:
shoot rocket to take down shield(they leave the ground or flinch buying time)
throw sticky grenade; this takes them to half health and stuns them again
immediately swap to auto rifle and dump a clip (shadow price 42 magazine)
That will finish them off. I also have fusion or sniper rifle in case I don't have time to reload my primary in between kills.
rinse/repeat
gift of the sun gives me 2 grenades (like your exotic does) and I have 100% grenade cooldown so I should always have a grenade for each Minnie.
not that you need any help, but it makes the rockets last longer in case it takes the reinforcements a little longer to get there.
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Oct 8, 2014 15:18:57 GMT -5
Yeah, I need to make my rockets last longer. I just notice myself getting panicky if I cut the time close between spawns. I also need to use my grenades for the early minotaurs so I can let it cooldown for later.
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Post by GodMars on Oct 8, 2014 23:43:13 GMT -5
We got through the first phase of hard mode Atheon without too much issue earlier this evening, but shortly after moving on to Atheon proper we started to suffer from some significant lag problems in the raid. Had to call it off for another night.
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Post by TheHawkNY on Oct 9, 2014 13:53:36 GMT -5
We got through the first phase of hard mode Atheon without too much issue earlier this evening, but shortly after moving on to Atheon proper we started to suffer from some significant lag problems in the raid. Had to call it off for another night. After we stopped doing the Raid on hard mode, we decided to do it on normal mode, as we were confident we could do it fairly quickly, and there was a guy or two who was going to be out of town for the rest of the week and unable to get any of the last rewards otherwise. In terms of raid rewards, here is my understanding of how it works: - There are two types of rewards, drops (which happen automatically after beating a boss), and chests.
- The potential weapons and armor that can be received are the same on normal and hard mode, with the exception of the Vex Mythoclast (can only be received for beating hard mode) and legendary helmets (can only be received from hard mode drops).
- If you do the raid on normal, and then on hard, you are able to get each of the drops/chests once in each mode. (This is per week, for each character)
- If you do the raid on hard first, you will not be able to get rewards by completing normal mode. However, in your hard mode run, the chests will yield twice the rewards, drops will yield the same amount of shards/energy, and your chances of receiving weapons/armor are doubled.
Is that all correct? So if you do normal mode first, you are guaranteed more shards/energy, because you will get those twice from drops. However, just doing hard mode increases your chances of getting the best gear, so you need to be really desperate for materials to make it a wise choice to do normal mode first. So last night, while we were trying to just speedrun through normal mode, we were in the Gorgons' Labyrinth, and I realized I could drop out, switch characters to a character with which I hadn't done the raid (and was a low enough level that I wouldn't really want to anyway), rejoin, and get the chests that I would not be able to get with my primary character. After getting the chests, I switched back to my primary to handle the vault section. It seems as if you could do that for all of the chests, if you are in a similar situation. |
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Oct 10, 2014 0:01:38 GMT -5
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But before I get to that...Rockets are the most important weapon for hard raid....specifically the 