Destiny: one month in…

[wittyscorpion]

Destiny has been released for a month, time to reflect.

Bungie's weekly update, as well as the following forbes.com article www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2014/10/11/bungie-reveals-how-many-players-have-beaten-destinys-vault-of-glass-raid/ have shed some lights on the player engagement:

Destiny averages 3.2 million players each and every day.

Average playtime is still right around 3 hours a day, even on weekdays, one month after launch.

The average player plays Destiny 1.8 times a day.

The average player has played Destiny 20.9 times.

Over the past three weeks, we’ve had more players online in Destiny than we did during the same span for Halo 3 and Halo: Reach, combined.

1,970,807 players have attempted the Raid on Normal

472,082 players have defeated the Raid on Normal

202,729 players have attempted the Raid on Hard

36,181 players have defeated the Raid on Hard

My question for bros here, eespecially the ones who have beaten VoG on hard and/or reached level 28+, are you still having fun? Will you still be playing if there are no attractive loot to go after?

Working on another character? Crucible?

I have already heard comments from players that they are playing Destiny only to hold them until ____ (fill in the blank here, CoD, Halo, etc).

Do you think that you will keep playing until December, or take a break before the expansion drops?

[GodMars]

I'm enjoying myself. I'd be enjoying myself more if raid gloves would ever drop and I could hit level 30,
allowing me to move on to another character.

I'll be here in December if everyone doesn't abandon the game for AW.

[Dumien]

I understand I am in the minority, but I have 0% interest in Halo.

At this point the only game I'm looking forward to is Evolve and that game requires 4 other friends. I doubt I will play, much less buy it if i can't get people interested. Hopefully marketing does its work.

Advanced Warfare looks weh. All my hope is in Treyarch. I'll probably end up getting it just because CoD is such a social animal.

I've been playing a healthy amount of smash in "for glory" battles.

Destiny has some staying power. I'm actually spending alot of my time doing "weekly/daily maintenance." This is something I was going to make a full post about, but every Tuesday, 5 other guys and I play one nightfall followed by 3 raids in a triple header (we moved on to triple hard raids last week...they used to be normal). Tuesday is fun! The rest of the week is pretty much just leveling up exotic and legendary weapons with bounties and telemetry from Xur. Leveling up weapons is fun since it adds to your potential versatility. I've actually taken a few days away from Destiny this week and the break has been fantastic. It makes me appreciate it more!

While the game does a good job at making you feel powerful at this level (except in Iron banner lol) I'm waiting on more raids. I want that uber difficult challenge again. You know...the early weeks where people hadn't solved all the problems.

[wittyscorpion]

As I mentioned in the Evolve thread, it will have a big Alpha at the end of this month. Preorder will guarantee entry so if you want to try it out you can preorder through Amazon risk free (zero money down, cancel any time).

Other contenders for FPS players' attention are: Borderlands The Pre-sequel (10/14), Sunset Overdrive (10/28), Far Cry 4 (11/18).

I can see players who still yet to get to the end game, the players who can easily find 5 friends for Raiding, and the players who enjoy Crucible, as the 3 groups of players to continue enjoying this game.

For other players, the game could show fatigue soon. It has 2 glaring weaknesses:

1) lack of playable content. ~20 story missions for daily rotation, 5/6 stike missions and 1 Raid for weekly rotation, can get old quickly.

Had it provided a more dynamic open world experience, this would not have mattered very much. However, the patrol experience is not very exciting, only the public event farming part can be called as remotely entertaining.

2) The Crucible, which is supposed to be the feature that provides the most staying power, is lackluster.

Some critics say that Destiny could suffer from being a mix of MMO and FPS. The weakness 1 above is ususally not a problem of MMO, and 2) is usually a strength of FPS.

Solutions for Destiny to address the above issue:

1) Add more content. Expansion packs need to make up for the content draught we are having right now, and events need to keep coming and ideally more interesting

2) Not sure if there's way for Destiny to be more competive vs. CoD AW or Halo on MP, hopefully at least the weapon class balancing can encourage more diversity of the game play.

We can also use more transparency on how the damage vs. defense works. when you die, it is hard to know whether it is due to out played or out gunned. That's not a good feeling to have when playing FPS MP. One thing I like about Titanfall is I can almost always say that I got out played for every death.

Thoughts on these? Constructive criticism from fans is usually the best kind to see what the game needs.

[wittyscorpion]

Dumien:

I assume that you guys do triple Raid because you want to do it once per character. In that case, why not triple Nightfall as well? Isn't that the way for the character to earn more XPs?

[Dumien]

Yup. One for each character. A few reasons for only one nightfall... The XP boost from at this point doesn't really matter unless you are turning in a chunk of quests. Raid itself doesn't offer any rewards. We mainly do a nightfall first to get warmed up since we begin in the wee hours of the morning. Eliminates that "Ima punch everything and win" mentality that can come from hours of fighting patrol thralls/acolytles/dregs. This is especially helpful because the first part of the hard raid (conflux defense) is the most difficult (read: luck based). Once we get to the oracles we duplicate the checkpoint (by leaving and entering the raid with other characters and giving them fireteam leader) a few times. Then, when we start the second and third raid we skip the most difficult part. You don't actually get rewarded for defending the conflux...only for oracles+templar+gatekeeper+atheon. Nightfalls are good for us to do with other buddies that might need our help more. By the time we are done with the third raid we are all sick of Destiny for the day! lol

[iw5000]

So if I am reading these numbers correctly..........


1. We already know Destiny has had just under six million buyers of the game. Let's say 5.8 million units sold.

2. The average play time (3 hrs a day) clocks in at a massive annualized number of 45.5 days played. Good lord. That is a pace far exceeding anything CoD sees. The typical/average players has around 3.8 days played so far. I have 2d, 21 hours. I am clocking in at a 2.3 hours a day pace. Definitately inflated by my ten hour marathon last night!!!

3. If 1.9 million players have tried the VoG, then that means about one in three people have got to this point (Lv 26) That matches up pretty well with the average hours.

4. About 24% of the above players succeeded. I have no clue what to make of that. That seems like a high success rate for this. It's much higher than the 15.4% success rate for those trying on 'Hard'. But then again, all it takes is one other person to show five others. idk.

5. Am I still having fun? I am. Some new fun now too. With some better weapons, it's opening up new things with the Strike missions. Last night, I did the Weekly Strike challenge on level 26, played it solo. I cruised right through it and crushed it! I do want to get my Warlock character to level 30 (same goal), so onward with that goal making things fun. I am still not finding any real consistent fun with the Crucible. I am trying hard too. Working on Crucible Level 2 soon, so I have logged in a lot of games. And like any FPS, map awareness is making things somewhat better, but the game is just still filled with cheap crap. I know one should just roll with things, accept you will get four or five 'insta-deaths', but they just feel so cheap. Hit a button, get a few kills! We use to complain about 'Gay Man's Hand' in CoD. Now we just roll over and take this crap without any complaints. That's lame.

[mannon]

To me it just seems no more lame than CoD, just different. We're all used to CoD's weaknesses and have complained about then and worked around them for year to the point that we mostly ignore them now, but they are still there. I'll have to play more Crucible, but I have had a good bit of fun with it so far. I may be skewed by mostly playing Warlock in Crucible, but then again I was also mostly playing as a Sunsinger rather than Voidwalker and haven't gotten self revive yet. *shrug*

Not saying we shouldn't complain. Destiny has many weaknesses, certainly. I just don't feel Crucible is as bad as you do. And I don't feel like it's any more cheap than the same BS different name stuff happening in CoD. In fact I feel like supers are far better than killstreaks because they are activated via cooldown timer rather than KDR streaks just like Titans in TF. But that's just my opinion.

[hebbnh]

According to the companion app, I'm at 4 days and 15 hours of playtime, which is probably an understatement as it appears to only count time actually spent doing missions/patrols, not time spent in orbit, loading, or possibly even in the tower. All but 12 hours of that is on my level 28 Hunter. I'm still having a ton of fun. My 28 Hunter is now at the "maintenance" point where he's basically only used to run the raid, weekly strikes, and daily stories/events. Waiting on some raid gauntlets and boots and then I'll be ready for hard mode raids. My Titan and Warlock are both at 16 now. It's been a fun change of pace and they really do play quite a bit differently than the Hunter. I'm focusing on Defender and Sunsinger exclusively until they're totally maxed out since they seem to be much more useful for the endgame content. I'd like to get them into the 20s this week so I can at least start doing weekly heroic strikes with them to earn some additional strange coins. I missed out on Icebreaker over the weekend due to a coin shortage, so hopefully that won't be a problem soon. After that it'll be back to grinding marks/rep or hoping to win the Cryptarch lottery to get those characters leveled up for the raid and nightfall. I don't foresee myself stopping until all three characters are at 30. I have no interest in Halo, CoD, or anything else coming down the pipe, so I'm pretty much all-in on Destiny. I just hope the expansion isn't a big let down like the "special events" so far have been.

[wittyscorpion]

The main problem with super is the perception of defenselessness. Killstreaks in CoD might be as cheap, but on the receiving end for the majority of them there are ways for players to evade or be immune to.

Psychologically speaking, this perception of not having control is similar to people's fear about taking a flight vs. driving, even though statistically the former is way safer than latter.

The good thing here is that the "super" way (as well as the radar design) will encourage aggressive game play, while the killstreak way encourages tactical loitering.

As I mentioned earlier, another big problem with Destiny is the lack of transparency of how you die. No killcam and not knowing whether you are out played or out gunned is not a good feeling.

The result of these 2 factors combined is the perception of too many BS moments. In reality there may not be as many, but perception is a far more powerful thing than logical analysis.

[tooros]

I'm loving it. I'm addicted as hell. I'm very unlucky with the RNG. I only just got my first legendary primary and I had to buy that with new monarchy points.
I'm now back to levelling the Vanguard. The Cryptarch fekkin' hates me! I'm gathering a few legendary armour pieces on the way. I'll start a hunter soon.

I'm quite looking forward to rolling through the levels 1-20 again but then, I'm also keen to get up there as fast as possible. What's the Bro's fav way to jump the rankings at top speed?

Dumien - Didn't you mention a rubber band trick somewhere?

[n1gh7]

Oct 13, 2014 9:32:59 GMT -5 wittyscorpion said:

The main problem with super is the perception of defenselessness. Killstreaks in CoD might be as cheap, but on the receiving end for the majority of them there are ways for players to evade or be immune to.

Psychologically speaking, this perception of not having control is similar to people's fear about taking a flight vs. driving, even though statistically the former is way safer than latter.

The good thing here is that the "super" way (as well as the radar design) will encourage aggressive game play, while the killstreak way encourages tactical loitering.

As I mentioned earlier, another big problem with Destiny is the lack of transparency of how you die. No killcam and not knowing whether you are out played or out gunned is not a good feeling.

The result of these 2 factors combined is the perception of too many BS moments. In reality there may not be as many, but perception is a far more powerful thing than logical analysis.

And factor in people not considering that for all the BS received, they dished out an equal amount of BS.

[hebbnh]

Oct 13, 2014 9:32:59 GMT -5 wittyscorpion said:

The main problem with super is the perception of defenselessness. Killstreaks in CoD might be as cheap, but on the receiving end for the majority of them there are ways for players to evade or be immune to.

Psychologically speaking, this perception of not having control is similar to people's fear about taking a flight vs. driving, even though statistically the former is way safer than latter.

The good thing here is that the "super" way (as well as the radar design) will encourage aggressive game play, while the killstreak way encourages tactical loitering.

As I mentioned earlier, another big problem with Destiny is the lack of transparency of how you die. No killcam and not knowing whether you are out played or out gunned is not a good feeling.

The result of these 2 factors combined is the perception of too many BS moments. In reality there may not be as many, but perception is a far more powerful thing than logical analysis.

This may have changed by now, but at one point CoD killstreaks were absolutely as cheap, even more so if you were a low level or had just prestiged and didn't have a way to avoid them.  Thinking MW2 where Cold Blooded and Stingers weren't unlocked until the 30s.  Before then, good luck if a chopper gunner gets called in.  Hope you're close to or spawn next to a building, otherwise you're going to take several deaths that you have zero control over. I guess the argument could be made that you should play better if you don't want big killstreaks dropped on you, but sometimes you can't help it.

I've actually felt the opposite about not having a killcam.  Most of the time it's obvious who you died to and why.  The only time it's ever felt unfair to me is when i get out-shotgunned at point blank range when we seemingly fired at the same time, but I die and their shields barely get dropped.  You have to remember a lot of the killcams in CoD were a lie.  Being shown that I died to a guy that missed me with most of his AR shots, or to a railgunner who hadn't ever scoped in all the way was much more rage-inducing than anything I've encountered in Destiny.  I rarely got the impression that I was outplayed or outgunned in CoD, I usually got the impression that somebody had a better connection or got luckier than I did.

Agree 100% on the killstreak/tactical loitering connection.  I've encountered much less of it than what I remember in CoD.  That's probably part of the reason shotguns are so prevalent too.  Nobody is afraid of getting into CQC because they have a streak to protect, leading to much more shotty rushing instead.

[wittyscorpion]

Forgot one more thing that Bungie can do to make the game more fun to play, which is not hard and they will make it happen soon, hopefully in November:

be more brave on supporting chat and matchmaking for weekly, nightfall, and Raid.

Have random teams could offer a poor game play experience, everybody gets that. Say during weekly you die and nobody revives you, you have to either sit it out or quit. That feels terrible, but players should be given the choice. Poor experience in one game could be offset by good experience in another game. It beats the current reality of many players soloing through weekly & nightfall, which is even more anti-social.

More importantly, matchmaking with chat is a great way to make friends. There are many times that a random team went through a matchmade strike with good synergy. If the chat is supported, the experience can be even better and friendship can be more conveniently forged, forming solid fire teams.

Regarding Raid, it should at least support fire team based matchmaking. While 6 random players could be a total disaster, 2 fire teams can have a much higher chance of success.

Again, just brainstorming here to see how the game can become better.

[iw5000]

I disagree with most of you. On the Crucible that is (I'm nitpicking to nitpick, so those of you in love with Destiny, please don't take it personal)

Take Domination in CoD. If I put together a very 'tight' CoD game, one in which everything is clicking, one is in the right spots, not out of position, keeping the spawns in front....it's not hard to get the occasional 40-5 or some big score like that. In fact, your deaths tend to be mostly tactical positioning mistakes (not recognizing spawn shifts). That is, you aren't necessarily out of position, just get outshot or rushed. Destiny? I'm finding the Spawns to be predictable (no complaint there)...but....the small maps, with faster movement speed, plus verticality, plus constant flag shifts, create a mother of all clusterFoxtrots in terms of out-of-position deaths. Where one is like "WTF, shot from behind?"

The interesting thing about the above is my hunch is the actual Encounters per Minute in Destiny control is lower than CoD's domination, but due to the above, you get A LOT more people converging in the middle. CoD enables a lot of big scores (50-5), with many horrific scores (2-35). Destiny? More convergence. You get more people around the 12-14, 15-14 types of scores. And it's because of the clusterFoxtrot stuff described above, ...as well as every one basically gets two or three 'Dead Man's Hand' per game too.

So yeah, you get to dish out your fair share of BS kills with your bs deaths. But the end result is a game where people end up shuffling more in the 'middle', just trading one big KO 'Dead Mans Hand' with each other. Back and forth. Obviously, a different style of game. And yes, it is still possible to get big games. Even I had a 32-10 game last night, around 6,000 plus point, but rythyms like that are hard to find due to the constand Dead Mans Hand trading.

And whoever said above, there is less tactical loitering in Destiny? Very true. But is it still there, but far less than CoD Ghosts. I will agree there and that's a good thing. But everything in life has a price. Destiny's 'price', what it pays to resolve this issue, is a constant Gay Mans Hand circle jerk tradeoff loop around every map. One might say it's a bit more freewheeling out of control type of game style?

At least now, I'm not so sure that is the answer (speaking in terms of my likes) If you love Mario Kart, Super Smash brothers, games with silly explosions and ridiculousness to the max...I'm going to guess that type of person won't be bothered by it as much. I hate tactical loitering as much as the next, but I think I prefer more control/tactical to my FPS'ing.


edit...regarding lag? That is a neutral factor between the games. If one is going to wonder about a CoD 'lag' death, then one should be putting equal concern the same thing isn't happening in Destiny. You never know with connections. You can't give Destiny a free pass on that.

[mannon]

Destiny does seem to reward playing aggressively at least as long as you're not trying to fly solo. If you're quick the limited info on the radar may prove insufficient for your enemy to have enough or accurate warning of your position. Flanking people and getting those first few shots or the chance to throw a grenade before your enemy is aware of you are huge.


For me personally, I haven't felt like I've had very many BS deaths. Most of the time I know exactly what I screwed up that got me killed immediately. I only get blindsided every once in a while and that's usually due to map knowledge and situational awareness, or the lack there of. Supers are pretty heavily telegraphed for the most part. You can even tell when opponents have a charged super ready to be used if you pay attention. Supers also have a flashy windup animation. Sure they are a little cheap, but they are a generally very brief burst of offensive and/or defensive power. But, as said, it's all about perception. I don't know if a killcam is the answer but the game could definitely do a better job communicating when you die.

[mannon]

I've heard complaints about lag in Crucible, but I've only seen rubberbanding a couple of times and just generally haven't had an issue with it even though I'm using wifi. But everyone's mileage will vary...

[iw5000]

There is a difference between a Bvllshit death and a death that you have no clue what happened. At least to me.

There former is more annoying. If I am on a flag capping it, and some Hunter jumps off a ledge lighting up his ninja sword...so what with the telegraphing. There isn't much I can do. Supers are kind of like having dozens of DeadMans Hand's popping up in the game at all times. Personal preferences vary here. Some say bvllshit, some would say cheap, and I'm sure some people love this stuff.

With the latter, unknown deaths aren't annoying as much as more frustrating. There's probably nothing that can be done. To many gun types. And there no way of knowing how much an opponent has leveled up his exotic or Legendary gun.

I think the Halo'esque shield style also creates a bit of frustration too. One person can hold off three, four, five plus people in CoD. Happens all the time if you are set up right. In Destiny, that style of play is nonexistent. Throw in the supers (which even Halo doesn't have), ...there you go.

[wings]

Killcams kind of hold players' hands a bit too much at times I feel.

[iw5000]

Oct 13, 2014 11:36:09 GMT -5 wings said:

Killcams kind of hold players' hands a bit too much at times I feel.

I think people are focusing to much on the killcams. At least for me, the 'WTF' is notwhat I am feeling when I die. I'm not blind. I saw the opponent shoot me. What I am referring to is what he got me with.

You die in CoD, you immediately can tell (with or without a killcam) if the gun was a MTAr or a LMG. And if an MTAR, if rapid fire or silencer was on it. If you see it happen a few times, you can adjust your tactics quickly to counter what the other team is doing. Destiny? No real way to do that. Hundreds of guns. 90% of which you don't have. And then no way of knowing if your tactics had you in a bad spot, or if the opponent has some exotic %^&^^% gun that enables him special range/impact/quickdraw,etc...

[daftpunk]

What i love about the crucible , no silenced weapons and a constant radar , not played Cod since Titanfall came out apart from last week , yeh f'kin campers everwhere , played 2 games and binned it , the only reason im getting AW is because of the Exo suits , if they didnt have that i couldnt have stomached another year of the same old shite...

[mannon]

The shields don't actually work like Halo's except in the 25% health recharge delay point. Shields don't prevent crits and weapons don't do different amounts of damage to shields and health.

Personally the fact that one player has a harder time holding off 3, 4, or 5 enemies in Destiny sounds more consistent and less pure twitch. Yeah, supers are cheap. I concede that. But then if you don't get a multikill out of one you've practically wasted it regardless of whether the guy you killed with it could have done anything about it or not. In fact taking a death to force an opponent to burn a super on a single kill is probably a fair trade for your team.

Destiny gives you lots of little cheap supers. CoD gives you less frequent but even bigger BS killstreaks. Frankly, I don't care so much if some guy nails me with his electro sword or whatever. I prefer that to dying 3 times in a row because somebody camped long enough to get guard dogs, or an attack chopper, or whatever... And at least half my deaths to supers I actually feel are still my fault anyway. But a lot of this comes down to personal preference and dying to massive killstreaks over and over in CoD has always pissed me off. Granted you can use things like cold blooded and launchers, but even then half the time it didn't matter because you're getting spawn killed so the CB does nothing, and trying to shoot down aircraft gets you shot in the face by somebody on the ground half the time as well.

So yeah... still bullshit, just different bullshit. I kind of enjoy the change of pace, though. Just personal preference, IMO. If you prefer CoD, more power to ya. And I admit that CoD's multiplayer is a bit more developed, but then it should be. CoD is primarily played as a MP game regardless of how many people zip through the brief, linear SP campaigns. Far more man-hours are spent playing MP than anything else in CoD. Destiny for all that Bungie wants to attract the PvP crowd is really focused more on PvE. You don't have custom lobbies or game modes or even private games, you don't have ForgeWorld, you don't have the skillbased ranking and matching of Halo2... Destiny just isn't as focused on PvP as any of the Bungie Halo's. Even Halo:CE had more MP options. I wouldn't go so far as to say MP is tacked on, but it's definitely not equal in size or scope to the PvE.

[mannon]

I think the hundreds of weapons thing is played up a bit much. There are only about 3 sets of base stats per weapon type and the mods are basically just attachments with a different name. So Destiny effectively has 3 AR's but more possible combinations of attachments, some of which only come on exotic weapons. I still think Destiny should show you exactly what weapon was used, ect. Just give you a little deathcard showing who killed, you, what they killed you with, and a few things. That would be nice. But the weapon variety really isn't that much more than CoD and at times seems far less due to so many people grabbing up those exotics off of Xur when they become available.

[Dumien]

Oct 13, 2014 9:50:52 GMT -5 tooros said:

I'm loving it. I'm addicted as hell. I'm very unlucky with the RNG. I only just got my first legendary primary and I had to buy that with new monarchy points.
I'm now back to levelling the Vanguard. The Cryptarch fekkin' hates me! I'm gathering a few legendary armour pieces on the way. I'll start a hunter soon.

I'm quite looking forward to rolling through the levels 1-20 again but then, I'm also keen to get up there as fast as possible. What's the Bro's fav way to jump the rankings at top speed?

Dumien - Didn't you mention a rubber band trick somewhere?

Uh... make 3 level 20s. All the same class (your favorite). Do all your weekly challenges. Then, switch your armor over (through the vault) to another character. Weekly caps (100 vanguard marks, 100 crucible marks, VoG runs, nightfall runs, weekly strike runs) are tied to characters not your account. By creating three characters you are able to do these weekly challenges 3 times a week.

At level 29 this gives you 16 extra chances at raid gear which is required to reach level 30 (4 [raid drops] x 2 [easy and hard] x 2 [characters]) = 16

It gives you 2 more chances at exotic weapons/armor from nightfall rewards.

It gives you 18 more strange coins a week (9 [coins for hard weekly strike] x 2 [characters])

It gives you More ascendant shards/energy from doing multiple dailies/raid runs.

It gives you more opportunities at legendary weapons/armor from extended vanguard play (bypassing the vanguard cap of 100)

[iw5000]

^^^ Doesn't that kind of then hurt you from experiencing other character types? Just asking there. Or am I missing something.

[Dumien]

In my case I have already experienced them. I'm also a bit hardcore...so take this with a grain of salt.

I have the "shell" of a hunter and warlock in my vault... the armor being 27 and 28 respectively. Once my titan (as in a completed set of armor) hits 30 I'll restart my warlock...probably by making 3 warlocks... putting my level 30 titan armor in the vault until I get lvl 30 warlock armor. When that is done I'll have a titan and a warlock at 30.

I have 0% interest in making a hunter... ive always been a bit of a hipster like that.

My third character will either be a second titan/warlock

[hebbnh]

iw5000: Just want to make clear that I wasn't trying to say that Destiny PvP is any better or worse than CoD, I was just throwing some of my experiences out there. I got Destiny for the PvE and I'll stick with it for the PvE, only playing PvP when necessary or that's what friends are doing or whatever. In fact I do prefer CoD multiplayer even though I don't really play it any more, and when I do it's either CoD4 or MW2 which doesn't really fit in with the current state of the CoD franchise. Destiny PvP is definitely much more...chaotic...than CoD. Personally I think supers are hella cheap and I'd rather not have them in PvP, although that might result in a campier game. I just don't see them as being any more cheap that killstreaks in CoD, they're just cheap in a different way like you pointed out.

Regarding the killcams, that's a good point about them allowing you to see exactly what weapon/tactics your opponents was using. I can see where that would be very handy in a more serious setting. My point about the killcam and lag was that personally I find it more annoying to know that I was killed because of some lag BS. If I lose to somebody because they're better, well fine, that's what's supposed to happen. I wasn't giving Destiny a free pass at all. Lag may be equally at fault in both Destiny and CoD, but in Destiny I have no real evidence so it's easier for me to assume I was out-skilled. In CoD the killcams make lag so obvious and that sends me straight into rage mode. Others I'm sure will hold the opposite viewpoint which I understand as well.

[iw5000]

Yeah, but even lag in CoD....the killcams aren't always reflective of real life. You might think you were shooting first, but reality is you were mostly likely out of position and were going to die regardless of what the killcam showed. The killcam just gave you misplaced hope it wasn't your fault. That's how that works imho. CoD Ghosts made it seem 100x worse with the fast TTK's.

And likewise, I don't mean to beat a dead horse with Destiny's PvP. To me, sometimes it's more interesting to discuss what doesn't work well, as opposed to the good stuff. I've certainly been ripping into CoD Ghosts for months for all it's faults. As it is, for all my complaining, I have been playing A LOT of destiny PvP. I played about 20 games last night. There are some good elements (like no tactical loitering)

[mannon]

I'm not so sure about killcams making lag obvious given the killcams in CoD do not represent either player's PoV. There's a lot of latency issues with the killcams that aren't necessarily what I would call lag issues since it's just the killcam being stupid.

[mannon]

hah! iw5000 and I agreed again. This time on killcams! ;3