Stat Optimization discussion!

[hebbnh]

I figured I'd start this discussion even though most of us besides Dumien are still trying to work our way up to level 30.  As we get there we'll be seeing more and more "duplicate" raid gear drops, and Xur selling the "same" items more and more.  TL;DR -- pay attention to the stat rolls on those pieces!  What looks like a duplicate may actually be much better or be more useful for a different build than what you have now. The numbers will change some when the level cap gets bumped to 32 with The Dark Below, but the basic concepts should stay the same. Courtesy of Reddit:

Congratulations! You're level 30. What's next? For those of you looking for that extra edge there is more to do. No two level 30's are created the same.

272 is the magic number.

Thanks to some comprehensive breakdowns we can see the substantial benefits that come from effect bonuses. Unfortunately, 816 (272/272/272) is not feasible. It starts with optimizing your gear to best suit your play style. As many of you may already know, not all gear is created equal. And the same piece of raid gear can have different stats altogether.

The 500+ Club

After running some numbers, we can deduce that a level 30 guardian who is equipped with optimal gear for each slot will amass a cumulative stat count north of 500. Here are the numbers:

Exotics	Base Min	Base Max	Max Potential
Helmet	75	105	118
Gloves	67	93	104
Chest	100	140	157

I don't have data on the baseline MIN/MAX values for raid Gear, but there has been some data compiled on the MIN/MAX values for upgraded raid items. You can see the results here.

Raid Gear	Min Potential	Max Potential
Helmet	104	117
Gloves	87	103
Chest	132	152
Boots	124	140

So if you were fully equipped with the highest potential gear, you would end up with something like this:

Raid Helmet, +117
Raid Gloves, +103
Exotic Chest, +157
Raid Boots, +140

TOTAL: 517

Seems like a lot of work. Where do you start? Well if you're like me you probably scrapped all the "duplicate" raid or exotic items you may have come across. Stop doing that. I took the time to compile some data sets to determine the stat upgrade multiplier for exotic and raid gear, respectively. Hopefully this will help everyone decide whether or not upgrading their gear is worth the time.

Gear Type	Base Value	Multiplier	Max Potential
Exotic	X	1.125	1.125X
Raid	X	1.165	1.165X

A few examples:

Armantentarium with base value 104 will be 117 fully upgraded. (Week 6, Xur)
Armantentarium with base value of 136 will be 153 fully upgraded. (Week 8, Xur)
Raid boots with base value of 54int and 55str (109) will be 63int / 64str (127) fully upgraded with the % increased evenly distributed between the two stats.

So to begin optimizing, quickly compute the potential on any gear you acquire. If it falls in the higher ranges, hold on to it. It will be extremely beneficial to hold on to any high-potential gear you have. Once you acquire all the pieces, you'll need to eventually mix-and-match combinations that give you your desired effect. Any point over 272 is a wasted point. So if you have boots that give you +140int, and two chest pieces, one that gives +157int and another that gives +75int/+75str, you're better off using the second one even though it's 7 stat points lower -- otherwise you'd be wasting 25 points by having a total int rating of 297.

I hope this helps those of you looking to maximize your output efficiency. Happy hunting.

[wittyscorpion]

As a collector wanna be of all exotic and raid armor pieces, this is great information.

I really wish that Bungie can offer an "armor loadout" option, where I can build loadouts that tie several armor pieces together. Just so I can eventually group my armor pieces into meaningful named loadouts, that I can swap on the fly. To make this work though, the different loadouts need to be able to share pieces with each other.

[psychlon]

Nov 14, 2014 16:47:04 GMT -5 wittyscorpion said:

As a collector wanna be of all exotic and raid armor pieces, this is great information.

I really wish that Bungie can offer an "armor loadout" option, where I can build loadouts that tie several armor pieces together. Just so I can eventually group my armor pieces into meaningful named loadouts, that I can swap on the fly. To make this work though, the different loadouts need to be able to share pieces with each other.

Would be good if you could create your layout based on your weapon.... and they double the available pieces you can carry around in each slot.

[iw5000]

I'm not understanding this thread?

- I looked at my three characters. I added up the stats inside of each of their components. From my understanding, one adds their Intellect, Discipline and strength modifiers on all four pieces of equipment. I did that for my one Level 30 person. It added up to 472. So I am not in the 500 club.

- Where is this modifier located? Where you take the "1.25" x your number?

- I think I get the balance part. I know with my one level 30, I am to top heavy in the first stat Intellect. I am at 100%. In fact, if I add up my intellect points (over all four armor pieces) I am at 344. I am to high. So if 272 is the max number, that explains how I am maxed out at 100% (344/272) I am +72 pts over 272. That's not good. Those 72 modifier points are being wasted right now. I need to do something with my four gear pieces....so that I take from the 344 Intellect total and give back to the other two (strength and discipline). What I have now is not efficient.

-Here's the problem with all of this. I know the above, but there is nothing i can do to rectify it. This seems like a rich person's problem. I have two sets of exotic gloves, helmets and chest pieces. The modifier stats are the same on each one. So swapping out those is pointless. And in terms of Raid gear, ...lol. I had to do 17 raids before completing just ONE character. Come on. Very few people are going to have the luxury of having all these Raid pieces floating around to mix and match.


Conclusion? If Bungie was trying to make some cool tactical addition to the game, where you can plan out your equipment and optimize it for all these cool combinations......this is a fail. You have to get all the extra pieces to do this. And we all see how ridiculously stupid hard that is.

[mannon]

I think the idea here is you iterate. Once you're at 30 you can start comparing any new raid pieces you get to see if they would work better than what you're currently using. The whole reason it takes so long to get your full set is all the duplicates, but duplicates is exactly what makes it work to try to tweak your stats.

[iw5000]

Nov 17, 2014 10:09:06 GMT -5 mannon said:

I think the idea here is you iterate. Once you're at 30 you can start comparing any new raid pieces you get to see if they would work better than what you're currently using. The whole reason it takes so long to get your full set is all the duplicates, but duplicates is exactly what makes it work to try to tweak your stats.

Does that really work though? I have two pairs of full leveled up Raid boots. Both have identical modifiers and stats. So with that, what good does mixing & matching do? They are the same.

[mannon]

If they are the same then there's nothing you can do with those two pieces. I believe it is suggested above that they may not always be identical in every stat. I wouldn't know for sure since I don't have any raid gear.

Although we are aware of exotics often having differing stats for the same item. So that's a thing to keep an eye out for. Obviously if the ones you have are identical that doesn't help you, but the point is to be on the lookout for ones that would.

[hebbnh]

Nov 17, 2014 9:36:03 GMT -5 iw5000 said:

I'm not understanding this thread?

- I looked at my three characters. I added up the stats inside of each of their components. From my understanding, one adds their Intellect, Discipline and strength modifiers on all four pieces of equipment. I did that for my one Level 30 person. It added up to 472. So I am not in the 500 club.

- Where is this modifier located? Where you take the "1.25" x your number?

- I think I get the balance part. I know with my one level 30, I am to top heavy in the first stat Intellect. I am at 100%. In fact, if I add up my intellect points (over all four armor pieces) I am at 344. I am to high. So if 272 is the max number, that explains how I am maxed out at 100% (344/272) I am +72 pts over 272. That's not good. Those 72 modifier points are being wasted right now. I need to do something with my four gear pieces....so that I take from the 344 Intellect total and give back to the other two (strength and discipline). What I have now is not efficient.

-Here's the problem with all of this. I know the above, but there is nothing i can do to rectify it. This seems like a rich person's problem. I have two sets of exotic gloves, helmets and chest pieces. The modifier stats are the same on each one. So swapping out those is pointless. And in terms of Raid gear, ...lol. I had to do 17 raids before completing just ONE character. Come on. Very few people are going to have the luxury of having all these Raid pieces floating around to mix and match.


Conclusion? If Bungie was trying to make some cool tactical addition to the game, where you can plan out your equipment and optimize it for all these cool combinations......this is a fail. You have to get all the extra pieces to do this. And we all see how ridiculously stupid hard that is.

1.  Correct.  Add up all the stats and see what you get.  If that number is around 500, you're in really good shape.

2.  The modifier basically just gives you a quick way to tell what the final stats of your gear will be, since leveling a piece up will increase its stats -- this is how you know if a new piece is better than the (I'm assuming) fully leveled one you're already wearing.  Take whatever stat is on your gear and multiply it by the applicable multiplier (1.125 for exotics, 1.165 for raid gear) to get the final stats for that piece once its fully leveled.  For example, if you get brand new raid boots that are 60 discipline and 59 strength, multiply those by 1.165 to see that the final fully leveled stats will be 70 discipline (rounded from 69.9) and 69 strength (rounded from 68.735).  That totals up to 139, which is almost the maximum when comparing to the raid gear table.  So needless to say, you'll want to hang on to them as they're really good, unless you already have a set that's better that also has discipline and strength.  In any other scenario they're worth keeping -- they may not necessarily be useful now, but they could be in the future.

3.  Correct again.

4.  Yes, it's definitely a rich person's problem, but it's better than insta-sharding your "duplicate that may not actually be duplicate" pieces unless you really need more shards, or they really are duplicates or flat-out worse than what you already have.  Like I said in the OP, a lot of this doesn't apply to most people right now, but with Iron Banner and the Dark Below gear coming soon, you'll also be getting more options for mixing and matching to try to balance stats out better.  This info will become more and more useful as time goes on.

[hebbnh]

And yes, "duplicate" pieces don't always have the same stats. That's the whole point of this. One pair of fully leveled Warlock boots I have is 121 intellect -- pretty crappy when comparing to the potential table above -- in fact, they're actually below the minimum (theoretical) potential of 124 listed in the table. The not at all leveled "duplicate" I got last week is 61 intellect and 58 strength, which will be 71 intellect and 67 or 68 strength when fully leveled -- much closer to the max (theoretical) potential of 140!

[wittyscorpion]

Nov 17, 2014 10:56:15 GMT -5 hebbnh said:

And yes, "duplicate" pieces don't always have the same stats. That's the whole point of this. One pair of fully leveled Warlock boots I have is 121 intellect -- pretty crappy when comparing to the potential table above -- in fact, they're actually below the minimum (theoretical) potential of 124 listed in the table. The not at all leveled "duplicate" I got last week is 61 intellect and 58 strength, which will be 71 intellect and 67 or 68 strength when fully leveled -- much closer to the max (theoretical) potential of 140!

From my experience, it is almost a miracle to have 2 pieces with identical stats roll, because that part seems truly random.

I can even go so far as suggesting to keep all legendaries, so you have richer options in building your PvP loadouts. Unless you are playing Iron Banner, level is not that important. It is better to have a level 26 with optimized stats roll, than a level 30 that does not.

[iw5000]

I don't break down armor. I still have two sets of Exotic gloves, helmets and chest pieces. As well as some extra fully leveled up legendary armor. The problem is I have looked at different combinations, and right now, there is no benefit to mix and matching up combinations. The exotics all appear to be the same stats. I'll double check this.

I also have a full set of Legendary Hunter gear (all four pieces). Just sitting there in the event I ever go remake one.

[hebbnh]

Based on the notes for the latest patch, they've added the ability to see what the stats on armor pieces will be when fully upgraded. That'll save everyone some math when attaining new gear as you'll be able to tell at a glance whether its stats will be better or not.