wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Dec 20, 2014 12:45:26 GMT -5
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Post by mrbone2u on Dec 20, 2014 13:07:24 GMT -5
Whatever they do i hope they change the role of titans in the game. It just gets old fast getting the same titans over and over. Also make the AI grunts more intelligent instead of just fodder.
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Will
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Post by Will on Dec 21, 2014 0:37:54 GMT -5
It's so irritating that he won't admit that no campaign was a mistake. Recall that 30 to 40% of COD players never touch the multiplayer, they only play it for the campaign. Even a co-op campaign would be fine. Just don't add voice overs to normal multiplayer matches and call it a day.
Basically, it was a very dumb marketing decision. And despite me being a multiplayer kind of guy, I felt it really took away from the game for me. I want to develop an emotional attachment to the universe I am playing in. The cutscenes in the "Multiplayer Campaign" were cool - but those should have been integrated into the normal multiplayer experience itself, separate from a real campaign.
A cool idea I have would be to utilize the drop ships and drop pods for player respawns, rather than just having us magically appear somewhere on the map. Emerging from a pod with grunts talking about how cool it is to be in the same pod as a Pilot - that would give me an eboner.
I do have hopes for Titanfall 2 though. Zampella is a genius, he will not repeat the same mistakes.
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n1gh7
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Post by n1gh7 on Dec 21, 2014 1:32:51 GMT -5
You call him a genius, but think that he thinks not having a campaign wasn't a problem.
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Will
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Post by Will on Dec 21, 2014 1:34:54 GMT -5
You call him a genius, but think that he thinks not having a campaign wasn't a problem. Gameplay design genius, marketing f00l
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n1gh7
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Post by n1gh7 on Dec 21, 2014 1:41:19 GMT -5
So why wasn't the campaign they had genius?
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Will
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Post by Will on Dec 21, 2014 1:44:01 GMT -5
So why wasn't the campaign they had genius? They didn't have a campaign, that's my point. That is the marketing flaw.
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n1gh7
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Post by n1gh7 on Dec 21, 2014 1:45:38 GMT -5
Ok then. I think their main flaw was the price point, but eh.
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Post by Pegasus Actual on Dec 21, 2014 2:30:13 GMT -5
They wanted a single-player campaign but it was cut for time/budget reasons. Titanfall was basically that long-term project in school that you just couldn't get going until the night before it was due yet you ended up pulling something out of your ass that somehow didn't suck.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Dec 21, 2014 2:39:50 GMT -5
I don't know. What he actually says is with the team, the brand, and the timing he thinks it was the right decision. I can't necessarily say he's wrong. I do think it hurt what TF could have been and done, but could Respawn have really pulled it off at the time? I kinda doubt it. I think they would have needed at least another year to put together a real SP campaign, and with them starting from scratch like that it could have really distracted the young studio from focusing. Instead of an excellent multiplayer game with no real SP it may have just been yet another meh shooter.
In the end maybe pushing for a single player campaign in their debut title was too much too soon for Respawn.
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Post by Pegasus Actual on Dec 21, 2014 2:49:42 GMT -5
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Den
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Post by Den on Dec 21, 2014 4:19:02 GMT -5
get The Final Hours of Titanfall The gist of the backstory detailed in Final Hours is that there was a long period of time where they were stuck in development hell because of the "Infinity Ward employees vs Activision" suit sucking up a lot of their time, money and morale. Jason West was totally occupied by the legal dispute and the forty ex-IW team members were constantly being questioned over details. Respawn was running out of cash because of the legal fees and with their development hell, running out of time. Multi-only was suggested but they continued working on SP+MP. Zampella and West were having a lot of issues with one another, West and the rest of the 40 IW members were wracked with worry over the lawsuit. Once the case was settled and West was seemingly at his highest high, he organized a little get together to try and get everyone to clear out any grievances, but it backfired catastrophically and West basically lost his shit after everyone shat all over him. The team was close to breaking apart and their game was still barely put together. West shut down and after a lot of turmoil, West quit. Vince Zampella and Steve Fukuda took charge and the team solidified their vision on the Multiplayer-only Titan Wars with less than a year to develop most of it.
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Will
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Post by Will on Dec 21, 2014 4:35:15 GMT -5
And they somehow managed to puke out the most flawless multiplayer experience I have ever seen.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Dec 21, 2014 13:01:03 GMT -5
One thing is certain: TF2 will NOT come out in 2015. Whatever they do i hope they change the role of titans in the game. It just gets old fast getting the same titans over and over. Also make the AI grunts more intelligent instead of just fodder. [/quote] I'm going to at least partly disagree here. Not on the titans, though. Really what they need is customization. Give us something more like Halo, Destiny, AW level of customization not just on our pilots but ESPECIALLY on our titans. Hell go the extra mile. Give us decals to unlock and then let us paint them anywhere on the chassis in any color. Give us the option to make them our own and have multiple chassis to pick from. I say keep the 3 tiers of light, medium, and heavy, but give us some side grades or at the very least have the IMC and Militia have different titans. All their pilots look different why do they have more or less identical titans? As for the AI... nope. They are minions. That's all they are supposed to be. If they were much of an actual threat they would just be annoying. The flesh out the battlefield and provide farming opportunity. They aren't really supposed to kill pilots. The only improvements they really need is just to make them more interesting. Make the humans seem more human. To create more interesting situations with them. They should only be a threat to pilots that are badly injured or just not paying attention and almost no threat at all to titans. This is still a PvP game at heart. Buffing the minions shifts it more towards PvE. If they are tougher and smarter they should be worth more points at least, but that also defeats the point of them since they provide farming and a means for lower skill pilots to contribute while they learn the game. Honestly the minions and the smart pistol are probably the two most equalizing and interesting innovations in the game. I love how they balanced the smart pistol. Take a genre where everybody obsesses over TTK, create a gun that doesn't require precision aim, balance by giving it the worst TTK in the game... problem solved. ;3 But it gives you a completely different mode of play. And it lets players focus on other skills. Frankly that's brilliant. I wouldn't say the game is perfect, but it is pretty great at what it is. It could definitely use some tweaks. Like my pet peev the wallhang being activated by aiming. If you're mid wall run it maybe makes sense, but really it just results in me grabbing walls I didn't want to because I aim at someone mid jump and happen to touch a wall. Also you aim and then the wallhang attaches and that forces you out of aiming... I don't like it. Poor feedback. I think crouch would be much more natural and I wouldn't accidentally hit it because there's really not any other reason to use crouch while jumping or wallrunning. (This isn't Half-Life with it's crouch jumps all over the place.) Other than that I dunno... Just talking about it makes me kinda want to go play it some more. heh Sad that it's mostly done. Part of me wishes they would release more DLC just to bring more people in, or even go F2P. If it got people playing I wouldn't mind if they got to play for free what I paid for way back... (whenever it released... don't remember...)
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Post by Pegasus Actual on Dec 21, 2014 13:55:39 GMT -5
I'm going to at least partly disagree here. Not on the titans, though. Really what they need is customization. Give us something more like Halo, Destiny, AW level of customization not just on our pilots but ESPECIALLY on our titans. Hell go the extra mile. Give us decals to unlock and then let us paint them anywhere on the chassis in any color. Give us the option to make them our own and have multiple chassis to pick from. I say keep the 3 tiers of light, medium, and heavy, but give us some side grades or at the very least have the IMC and Militia have different titans. All their pilots look different why do they have more or less identical titans? This is what you lead with? I hear there's another TF2 with a build your own hat mode, might be just the thing for you.
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Dec 21, 2014 15:30:33 GMT -5
I know I dont play this but am I alone here in thinking that lack of campaign isnt a bad thing anyway? Plenty of successful games don't offer a single player yet are still capable of developing a world, lore, and characters if those are deemed necessary; and hell, its often done better than call of duty ever could. I mean perhaps the price point was rather steep for a multiplayer only game (a lot are f2p and I can't recall any that sold for regular console game price recently) but thats a different side of the coin i feel. I agree with this..actually because of the...um...mess of a Titanfall multiplayer campaign. I can repeat more "campaign" dialogue from Titanfall than any CoD franchise. If anything they did a tremendous job with branding.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Dec 21, 2014 15:32:02 GMT -5
Quick comments:
1) As an MP minded player I applaud their decision to not have campaign, because I have not played any CoD campaigns since BO2. I am also not sure whether adding a campaign can get TF to sell a lot more copies, IMHO the marketing problem was mainly on the XONE side;
Respawn got the best out of the exclusive: MSFT went all in for MP/Dedi support and price reduction / bundle marketing trick, these kinda love from big corporations are huge for a startup company. Whatever lack in sales are more than made up by that plus compensations under the table from MSFT and EA;
2) The way the current Titan role is designed is great! I certainly don't want that main aspect of the combat sandbox design changed in any major way. Add more Titans on the other hand, is a big yes!
3) The potentially bad news is that I sense lack of enthusiasm of making TF2 from all parties. Respawn seems to be more into their mysterious project than TF2, MSFT no longer cares, and EA was burnt by their bad marketing decisions of making TF XBL exclusive. Respawn is a tiny company with very limited human resources, if they don't focus on TF2, then it could be just a TF "1.5" mainly to get some quick money from PS players.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Dec 21, 2014 16:09:16 GMT -5
I don't want to craft hats. I want to be able to make my titans visually distinct with custom paint jobs and bits of armor similar to Halo: Reach, though hopefully with even more options. You could do a lot with your spartan in that game. I assume you can do much the same in Halo 4 multiplayer, though I only ever played the single player, then sold it... (Not only still have Reach, we bought another copy for my GF so we don't have to split screen... but that's another story.)
AW's system is okay for pilots. Throw in something like Destiny's shaders too and it would be lovely. Aside from that give us sidegrade options for titans and a few more weapons both pilot and titan and that could be really cool.
Over all though, keep the dynamics the same! TF is a great game, I just want moar plz. Don't alter the fundamentals.
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n1gh7
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Post by n1gh7 on Dec 22, 2014 1:15:11 GMT -5
I know people want more customization, and options for titans, but I hope they keep it aesthetic. I don't really want them to go the COD route and have an abundance of guns per class. Keeping the number few and making them all significant is a much better direction. This allows them to focus their resources and spend more time on the inter-gun balance and depth. But part of the problem is that the game is so good in the current state, I fear that they will add elements we aren't fond of because they feel forced to "innovate" and change so that they aren't stuck with reviews that call the game TF 1.5.
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Post by Pegasus Actual on Dec 22, 2014 1:53:35 GMT -5
I think it's a certainty that they're going to have to pander to the 'we want more stuff' crowd. The single-player is coming. The custom reticles are coming. More guns are coming. More Titan weapons are coming. More Titan chassis (or maybe modular titan builds, e.g. pick your engine, pick your legs, install dash modules) are coming. More perks, more burn cards. More more more more more. I'm not going to disagree with your point that less is more when it comes to getting the balance right, but I still trust Respawn to iterate and improve on the original despite that.
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Post by iw5000 on Dec 31, 2014 11:14:44 GMT -5
imho, a few thoughts
1. The lack of campaign did not kill sales. That's a myth, the whole 'lack of interest' angle. The decision to hitch a ride of the XB1 exclusivity train is what killed sales. If you break down the numbers, how the game sold, when the sales hit, and then extrapolate things to account for the exclusivity, TitanFall actually sold pretty well. It was a success imho. The problem was the media. The media already decided before the game came out, that it was not only going to sell well, but it was ALSO going to propel the XB1 into the 20 million console range. When that didn't happen, the media started with the 'what's wrong' articles.
2. People stopped playing this game? Yes. But did people really stop playing TF at a faster rate than other games? Look at how people moved away from CoD Ghosts. Numbers plummeted at a rate that was probably very comparable, if not faster than TF. So does this even hold any weight?
3. Customization. I do think this carries weight. If Destiny showed anything, it's that people LOVE to tinker with their video game characters. The more you can customize, make it an extension of yourself, it sure seems like the game becomes more popular. Sometimes I think a lot of BO2's success was due to this. The cool gun camos. The player cards. All customization stuff. CoD Ghosts? A lot of that went away. TF? Very little of it. Destiny? The game is just a FPS loot collector game. While Destiny didn't get a huge foothold with record breaking sales....those that did play it out, most all become hooked on it.
And keep this in mind. Destiny does not have a campaign either. Yes, it's there, but it sucks almost as bad as TF's. So the whole campaign issue is a non-factor.
4. TF's movement mechanics are just pure genius, especially so now, after playing Destiny's Crucible and AW quite a lot.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Dec 31, 2014 11:53:11 GMT -5
I think with TF they could still skip customizing pilots if they must but give us custom titans! Custom titans would be THE thing. They gave us an insignia that most people have a hard time finding on a stationary Titan and is pretty much completely irrelevant in battle... Screw that! Give people the option to have their hot pink with racing stripes Stryders dashing around the maps. It wouldn't have to be terribly detailed, but just look to Halo:Reach and Destiny for how some pretty simple customization options.
I do think TF could have sold some more with a decent SP campaign, but yeah... the real issue was the Xbox exclusive.
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Jan 7, 2015 11:14:34 GMT -5
1. The only reason why I'd like a campaign mode is to be able to play something when some f$$ktards hack into the PSN. But make it worth my time to do so. I won't grind out a campaign for the sake of grinding it out... but if it's fun, I'd do it.
2. Character customization is a must. Don't be stupid about it (think COD bacon shields) but give me the ability to make my character look awesome
3. Unless it's awesome and some of us are playing it, I probably won't buy TF2 for the sole reason that TF1 was not on the PSN. I don't care why and whether or not that's rational or whatever: give XBox exclusive content, sure... exclusive missions and maps and all that, sure... but completely ignore an entire player base? Eff you. TF3 I might buy... but 2 needs to work hard to convince me to 1) forget about not taking my money for TF1, and 2) to pull me away from Destiny 3
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Jan 7, 2015 11:41:47 GMT -5
If TF2 is as good as TF1 but with some very welcome additions then you should definitely give it a shot. TF1 is the best multiplayer shooter I've played in ages. The only thing I've played that has been even close was prolly Tribes (the newer F2P one), but it's a VERY different game and also a bit grind/pay to win. "Skiing" in it is fun as hell, though. The developer annoyed me though, because once Smite came out they didn't pay much attention to Tribes anymore except for releasing a few extra bits and bobs of loot for you to buy. It's also difficult to be good at as a casual with no friends that play. TF is just more visceral as well. And the titans themselves evoke the best of Michael Bay without all the stupid logic melting half assed plots, racial stereotypes, and bad jokes... just blowin' shit up!
Having said that I'm likely to get TF2 on PC like I did TF1. It's great as a PC game and hard for me to imagine playing with a controller. Although I could probably do quite well on console. Apparently most people don't parkour as much due to heavy use of jump button which by default is a face button. But I claw grip so I have no problems what so ever with using jump any time I want. Still though, I think I would just prefer TF on PC. I'm okay with Destiny on console, though. I can only imagine mouse control would actually make Destiny a lot easier since crits do so much damage.
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Post by Pegasus Actual on Jan 7, 2015 14:00:03 GMT -5
3. Unless it's awesome and some of us are playing it, I probably won't buy TF2 for the sole reason that TF1 was not on the PSN. I don't care why and whether or not that's rational or whatever: give XBox exclusive content, sure... exclusive missions and maps and all that, sure... but completely ignore an entire player base? Eff you. Petty and moronic fanboy nonsense. Ain't nobody got time for that.
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Jan 8, 2015 10:03:37 GMT -5
No u
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