Gamma
True Bro
Posts: 127
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Post by Gamma on Feb 28, 2015 12:51:32 GMT -5
So, I recently discovered that one of my favourite musicians, Jimmy Page (Led Zeppelin), allegedly raped a 14 year old girl named Lori Maddox. I am rather shocked, now every time I listen to a Led Zeppelin song, I can't help but think about this.
In essence, what I want to discuss is, can you successfully separate art from artist?
For example, Elvis Presley was accused of having sex with 13 year olds, and even began dating a 14 year old Priscilla. James Brown was accused of physically assaulting various women. David Bowie allegedly had sex with a 13 year old. The list of musicians accused of depraved acts goes on and on.
Can their music still be enjoyed despite such claims? Can art be separated from artist? And if so, is it wrong of us to forgive/forget such allegations?
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Post by ChloeB42 (Alexcalibur42) on Feb 28, 2015 13:49:37 GMT -5
So, I recently discovered that one of my favourite musicians, Jimmy Page (Led Zeppelin), allegedly raped a 14 year old girl named Lori Maddox. I am rather shocked, now every time I listen to a Led Zeppelin song, I can't help but think about this. In essence, what I want to discuss is, can you successfully separate art from artist? Yes Can their music still be enjoyed despite such claims? Can art be separated from artist? And if so, is it wrong of us to forgive/forget such allegations? Yes I mean sex is a pretty taboo subject, what is consent, what is an appropriate age etc...and let's face it, America has pretty puritanical views on it. As far as I'm concerned between Elvis and Jimmy both girls were willing partners, according to the girls themselves. Priscilla went on to marry Elvis and any reports on Lori said she enjoyed the situation.
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Post by jaedrik on Feb 28, 2015 13:51:54 GMT -5
Why be disturbed? Humans are frail creatures that fail constantly. Enjoy art where it is found. Let nothing ruin it.
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Gamma
True Bro
Posts: 127
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Post by Gamma on Feb 28, 2015 14:20:43 GMT -5
[/quote]Yes
I mean sex is a pretty taboo subject, what is consent, what is an appropriate age etc...and let's face it, America has pretty puritanical views on it.
As far as I'm concerned between Elvis and Jimmy both girls were willing partners, according to the girls themselves. Priscilla went on to marry Elvis and any reports on Lori said she enjoyed the situation.[/quote]
Hmm, perhaps. But consent and competence are intertwined. In the medical field, 13-14 year olds are often denied from making medical decisions for themselves if upon assessment they are not suitably competent. Therefore, it's difficult to say whether it's right for a young vulnerable 13 year old to consent a relationship with an adult rock star.
But I think what disturbs most people is the fact that they were, as fully grown men, attracted to such young girls.
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Gamma
True Bro
Posts: 127
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Post by Gamma on Feb 28, 2015 14:38:05 GMT -5
Why be disturbed? Humans are frail creatures that fail constantly. Enjoy art where it is found. Let nothing ruin it. I like that. In my experience, I have been ridiculed for listening to James Brown and Michael Jackson. As if I am somehow advocating criminal behaviour. Though, in the defence of Elvis and Michael, the families who made allegations against them had a jarring lack of credibility. I do agree though, if the art is good, it shouldn't be ignored, condemn the artist but spare the art. Even Lewis Carroll (author of Alice in Wonderland), was accused of being a paedophile, due to some alleged obsession with pictures of naked young children.
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Gamma
True Bro
Posts: 127
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Post by Gamma on Feb 28, 2015 14:48:47 GMT -5
I'm on the opposite side of things. I have a really hard time enjoying stuff when I have a problem with its creator. I dont think any art is beyond moral reproach and I tend to avoid a lot of shit on principle alone. Obviously it varies depending on the situation and how the artist goes about remedying the situation as well. John lennon beat women but pretty openly said he regretted and wanted to amend for that part of his life. On the other end good luck listening through a lostprophets song without thinking "wow, this guy f ucked a baby." I'm not gonna act like I totally adhere to this 100% either, but it does affect my opinion of music a lot. It doesnt just apply to music either. In games for instance, the community, developer/publishers comments and business practices have a pretty decent impact on whether or not ill play or stick with a game. I wouldn't be able to listen to a lostprophets song after hearing the disturbing news, so I can agree with you there. I suppose it comes down to just how depraved an act an artist commits that determines whether their art can overcome it. Regarding Lennon, it wouldn't be wholly surprising if a large public figure's open "regret" were simply empty words. But regardless, I can still listen to the Beatles' work without any qualms.
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Post by ChloeB42 (Alexcalibur42) on Feb 28, 2015 15:38:16 GMT -5
Yes I mean sex is a pretty taboo subject, what is consent, what is an appropriate age etc...and let's face it, America has pretty puritanical views on it. As far as I'm concerned between Elvis and Jimmy both girls were willing partners, according to the girls themselves. Priscilla went on to marry Elvis and any reports on Lori said she enjoyed the situation. Hmm, perhaps. But consent and competence are intertwined. In the medical field, 13-14 year olds are often denied from making medical decisions for themselves if upon assessment they are not suitably competent. Therefore, it's difficult to say whether it's right for a young vulnerable 13 year old to consent a relationship with an adult rock star. But I think what disturbs most people is the fact that they were, as fully grown men, attracted to such young girls. Like I said, puritanical. I mean there's a number of factors at work. Women mature much sooner and faster than men. They enter puberty earlier and finish earlier, their brains develop much faster than men, I mean by the time a girl is around the age of 14 or 15 they're several years more advanced than boys and a new study done by taking MRIs of men and women ages from 4-40 indicated this quite clearly. On top of that prefrontal cortex development continues well into adulthood. The entire basis of "adulthood" is completely and utterly subjective, at least in the eyes of the law. I mean in my state someone can be tried as an adult at 16, but the age of consent is 17. I can own a long gun at 16, but can't buy one until 18, and I can't buy or own a pistol until 21. I can fight in a war, vote, buy cigarettes and hold a position in the state assembly or senate at 18, but can't drink until 21. It's a sticky topic that has no one right answer. I mean there's an ick factor sure, but it's complicated.
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markopolo
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Once a LMG Camper, Then a Voidlock, Now a Lexington 25-8-366 Runner
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Post by markopolo on Mar 2, 2015 12:53:43 GMT -5
If it is "allegedly" I have no problem listening to the music.
If it is "fact and/or proven" I have difficulty.
Many people have allegedly done many alleged things that allegedly happened in and alleged time and alleged place with alleged people.
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