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Post by TheHawkNY on Mar 5, 2015 11:02:39 GMT -5
Just a reminder: don't hesitate to share whatcha got this week for lootz So far, from 3x Gorgon's Chest, 1x Normal Lamps and Bridge, and 3x Normal Deathsinger and Crota, I received Truth, Plan C, Hunter Boots, and shards/energy. Went 3 for 3 on exotics from Nightfalls this week - Apotheosis Veil, Helm of Saint 14, and Universal Remote. I also received a Mida Multi-tool from a Roc strike. That's 6 exotic pieces so far this week, but unfortunately, I had all of them already, and the armor has worse rolls than the pieces I already had.
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Mar 5, 2015 11:04:19 GMT -5
Oh please....
Dividing the community, my a$$. Every video game does it. Every MMO does it. Hell, everywhere and everything in life is like this. If you want the extras, you pay for it. If you don't want to shell out the extra $$$ for the new things, stfu: you reap what you sow or do not sow. If you want the fancy toys and the fancy raids and strikes and stuff, you pay for it. If you don't... that's fine too. So your speeder won't flip... big deal. So you can't level your gear to get new gear that will be obsolete when the next update comes out... big deal. You bought the basic level model of the game... you get what you get and you don't get upset. Yea, others look cooler and have cooler things and get to play cool stuff: they paid for it.
But dividing the community... please.
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Mar 5, 2015 11:11:47 GMT -5
So far, from 3x Gorgon's Chest, 1x Normal Lamps and Bridge, and 3x Normal Deathsinger and Crota, I received Truth, Plan C, Hunter Boots, and shards/energy. Went 3 for 3 on exotics from Nightfalls this week - Apotheosis Veil, Helm of Saint 14, and Universal Remote. I also received a Mida Multi-tool from a Roc strike. That's 6 exotic pieces so far this week, but unfortunately, I had all of them already, and the armor has worse rolls than the pieces I already had. so you got 6 exotic shards... a savings of 42 exotic coins. #TheGiftThatKeepsOnGiving
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Post by iw5000 on Mar 5, 2015 11:32:05 GMT -5
Oh please.... Dividing the community, my a$$. Every video game does it. Every MMO does it. Hell, everywhere and everything in life is like this. If you want the extras, you pay for it. If you don't want to shell out the extra $$$ for the new things, stfu: you reap what you sow or do not sow. If you want the fancy toys and the fancy raids and strikes and stuff, you pay for it. If you don't... that's fine too. So your speeder won't flip... big deal. So you can't level your gear to get new gear that will be obsolete when the next update comes out... big deal. You bought the basic level model of the game... you get what you get and you don't get upset. Yea, others look cooler and have cooler things and get to play cool stuff: they paid for it. But dividing the community... please. But it does divide. There is no arguing there. You are just fussing about the degree it divides.
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Post by TheHawkNY on Mar 5, 2015 11:32:28 GMT -5
Went 3 for 3 on exotics from Nightfalls this week - Apotheosis Veil, Helm of Saint 14, and Universal Remote. I also received a Mida Multi-tool from a Roc strike. That's 6 exotic pieces so far this week, but unfortunately, I had all of them already, and the armor has worse rolls than the pieces I already had. so you got 6 exotic shards... a savings of 42 exotic coins. #TheGiftThatKeepsOnGiving I'll probably hold on to most of them - if we need to upgrade items again, I can upgrade the duplicate. Also, backup an exotic disappears with transferring characters or is accidentally dismantled. Unfortunately, I'm reaching the point where even when I do get an exotic, the chance of it being one I don't have is small. Out of the 17 (19 including Vex and Necrochasm) exotic weapons you can get from a random drop, I need 3. Out of the 27 exotic armor pieces, I need 4.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Mar 5, 2015 11:33:26 GMT -5
Bungie did seem to want to avoid too much division with TDB. Otherwise why give vanilla players access to most of the new items? But clearly they can't give them everything and have to give DLC owners something to make their investment worthwhile.
I agree that being sometimes locked out of weekly activities and items kinda sucks, but they also clearly do still feature 'nilla activities and items as well so it's not like they are completely ignoring the group that didn't get the DLC... (although surely that's a minority of the overall population at this point...)
Hopefully HoW goes a bit better. Personally I hate commendations. I understand why they put them there, but I still hate them. I don't see why I have to earn two different currencies which are difficult to sync up with my needs. It makes me wait to spend my marks even though I've already got all the damn armor I need other than raid helmet, and/or forces me to spend marks on resources because I can't spend them on anything else at the time.
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Mar 5, 2015 11:35:11 GMT -5
But it does divide. There is no arguing there. You are just fussing about the degree it divides. No, I'm fussing about that people complain about it
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Mar 5, 2015 11:36:44 GMT -5
Of course DLC is going to divide the community some. But DLC is part of the business model. Division can only be minimized, not eliminated. The only way to avoid dividing the community would be to release the game once, and stop. No DLC, no sequels, nothing else... ever. That is not what we or Bungie signed on for.
Everything is a trade off and Bungie seems to be leaning towards minimizing division as much as they can, (arguable too much in some ways) without completely invalidating the DLC investment.
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wings
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Post by wings on Mar 5, 2015 12:47:31 GMT -5
Bungie did seem to want to avoid too much division with TDB. Otherwise why give vanilla players access to most of the new items? That's because of the enforced level cap increase rather than the DLC being released, which made getting Raid armour in the Vault of Glass pointless. It would have been better to leave the dumb level cap increase alone, and then give vanilla players an alternative when Omnigul/Randal the Vandal is in rotation for the Weekly Heroic and Nightfall. I suspect vanilla players can get DLC exotics as drops because there may not be a way to distinguish who has DLC or not, unlike when you approach Xur. Not sure on Rahool though, although the odds of a vanilla player getting a DLC exotic must be very slim because Bungie wouldn't want too many vanilla players with enough DLC exotics otherwise they might not buy the content to play the Strikes and Raids.
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Post by TheHawkNY on Mar 5, 2015 14:19:28 GMT -5
It's essentially a form of price discrimination.
If you're playing the game the way a typical FPS is played, the DLC is a similar price/value proposition. As with other FPS titles, the DLC is not really mandatory.
If you're playing the game the way a typical MMO is played, you're not paying a subscription fee, but being able to progress past a certain point is gated by the DLC.
Given how far in advance of the game launch the plan for the DLC product and pricing needed to be finalized, it's not surprising they went with a pricing model similar to traditional FPS, with a method to ensure that all the users who were playing the game like an MMO would pay. They're the creators of Marathon and Halo, the game was being marketed to an FPS audience and they actively messaged that it is "not an MMO."
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Post by TheHawkNY on Mar 5, 2015 14:34:03 GMT -5
hmmm I just exploited this glitch in a permanent fashion using this guy's trick... The best bit is you don't need Crux... videoVery fun running around with rockets and no need to fear picking up a random engram. I tested this out and completed some roc strikes with no issue. Any idea why he says you need 10 bad weapons? Is there something with the other weapons in the inventory being lost when you stop doing it? Or is it just that once you do it, you can't remove the weapons from your inventory (to a different character or something)? I see you did it on your Titan and have Ruin Wings equipped - is there a benefit to Ruin Wings with the glitch?
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Post by iw5000 on Mar 5, 2015 15:27:42 GMT -5
Of course DLC is going to divide the community some. But DLC is part of the business model. Division can only be minimized, not eliminated. The only way to avoid dividing the community would be to release the game once, and stop. No DLC, no sequels, nothing else... ever. That is not what we or Bungie signed on for. Everything is a trade off and Bungie seems to be leaning towards minimizing division as much as they can, (arguable too much in some ways) without completely invalidating the DLC investment. You can do DLC without dividing. Give some new guns. Give some items. Give some new shaders. All of these things, still allow DLC and non-DLC people to play together and the latter isn't hampered at all.
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Mar 5, 2015 15:55:00 GMT -5
Of course DLC is going to divide the community some. But DLC is part of the business model. Division can only be minimized, not eliminated. The only way to avoid dividing the community would be to release the game once, and stop. No DLC, no sequels, nothing else... ever. That is not what we or Bungie signed on for. Everything is a trade off and Bungie seems to be leaning towards minimizing division as much as they can, (arguable too much in some ways) without completely invalidating the DLC investment. You can do DLC without dividing. Give some new guns. Give some items. Give some new shaders. All of these things, still allow DLC and non-DLC people to play together and the latter isn't hampered at all. So... I pay $$$ to play extra levels, and I'm pugging along with someone else who didn't? Bull$hit. F$$k that. You pay extra, you get extra stuff. You don't pay extra, you don't get extra. You want the nicest stuff, you pay for it. Now, if you want to give people a "free" weekend pass to try the new stuff... sure. But after the weekend is done, they lose their goodies that they've earned.
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Mar 5, 2015 18:03:43 GMT -5
hmmm I just exploited this glitch in a permanent fashion using this guy's trick... The best bit is you don't need Crux... videoVery fun running around with rockets and no need to fear picking up a random engram. I tested this out and completed some roc strikes with no issue. Any idea why he says you need 10 bad weapons? Is there something with the other weapons in the inventory being lost when you stop doing it? Or is it just that once you do it, you can't remove the weapons from your inventory (to a different character or something)? I see you did it on your Titan and have Ruin Wings equipped - is there a benefit to Ruin Wings with the glitch? "10 bad items" because gaining access to them while you intend to have th glitch running will result in green engrams replacing your primary slot. They are just a placeholder. The exotic that you pick up from your vault takes the hidden 10th item slot that is reserved so you don't have to pick up engrams...but it only takes up the hidden 10th slot if you have 9 primary weapons in your inventory (not equiped). You can't move any of those 9 items. Ruin wings just makes your heavy ammo packs much better. per pack you pick up 5 hezen's vengeance, 4 hunger of crota, 250+ Harms way rounds, etc. If you are fleet fingered during battle you can also switch your icebreaker off and put on a thunderlord/gjallarhorn/truth/dragon's breath to take advantage of the mass of heavy ammo packs. Using truth and DB in particular pick up 5 rockets per pack. I tested this last bit last night and the surprisingly the primary slot didn't auto equip the exotic from the tenth slot even though momentarily there is no exotic in the heavy or secondary slot. I'm fairly certain this will be good for abusing the nature of boss fights.
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Post by TheHawkNY on Mar 5, 2015 18:17:24 GMT -5
Any idea why he says you need 10 bad weapons? Is there something with the other weapons in the inventory being lost when you stop doing it? Or is it just that once you do it, you can't remove the weapons from your inventory (to a different character or something)? I see you did it on your Titan and have Ruin Wings equipped - is there a benefit to Ruin Wings with the glitch? "10 bad items" because gaining access to them while you intend to have th glitch running will result in green engrams replacing your primary slot. They are just a placeholder. The exotic that you pick up from your vault takes the hidden 10th item slot that is reserved so you don't have to pick up engrams...but it only takes up the hidden 10th slot if you have 9 primary weapons in your inventory (not equiped). You can't move any of those 9 items. Ruin wings just makes your heavy ammo packs much better. per pack you pick up 5 hezen's vengeance, 4 hunger of crota, 250+ Harms way rounds, etc. If you are fleet fingered during battle you can also switch your icebreaker off and put on a thunderlord/gjallarhorn/truth/dragon's breath to take advantage of the mass of heavy ammo packs. Using truth and DB in particular pick up 5 rockets per pack. I tested this last bit last night and the surprisingly the primary slot didn't auto equip the exotic from the tenth slot even though momentarily there is no exotic in the heavy or secondary slot. I'm fairly certain this will be good for abusing the nature of boss fights. I don't quite follow your answer. What I meant is, is there any reason they need to be bad? Like, I can just use whatever 9 weapons I currently have there + the 10th that is an exotic. I'll only lose the exotic, through dismantling, when I decide I'm tired of the glitch or they decide to patch it, correct? I don't need to move all of the primary weapons I don't want to lose permanently off the character, just know that I can't access any of them or it will end the fun. Right? I have a Radegast's Fury with Tripod and Field Scout...I wonder how much ammo a pack gives with Ruin Wings on. I'll have to test that out.
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Mar 5, 2015 19:01:56 GMT -5
TheHawkNY You aren't in danger of losing any weapons except the initial one that you use to get the trick set up. The reason the video guy says to use "bad" weapons as placeholders is simply because you can't use them during the duration of the glitch. They essentially become useless... if you are someone who doesn't have a good deal of primary weapons for each character...you should switch them out beforehand. When you are tired of the glitch just unequip all secondary/heavy exotics and equip the 10th slot primary exotic. No sacrifices required.
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Post by TheHawkNY on Mar 6, 2015 10:53:26 GMT -5
TheHawkNY You aren't in danger of losing any weapons except the initial one that you use to get the trick set up. The reason the video guy says to use "bad" weapons as placeholders is simply because you can't use them during the duration of the glitch. They essentially become useless... if you are someone who doesn't have a good deal of primary weapons for each character...you should switch them out beforehand. When you are tired of the glitch just unequip all secondary/heavy exotics and equip the 10th slot primary exotic. No sacrifices required. Nice, thanks. I did it this morning, only had a few minutes to run around but it was fun. I'll spend more time tonight with it.
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wings
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Post by wings on Mar 7, 2015 17:00:32 GMT -5
You can do DLC without dividing. Give some new guns. Give some items. Give some new shaders. All of these things, still allow DLC and non-DLC people to play together and the latter isn't hampered at all. So... I pay $$$ to play extra levels, and I'm pugging along with someone else who didn't? Bull$hit. F$$k that. You pay extra, you get extra stuff. You don't pay extra, you don't get extra. You want the nicest stuff, you pay for it. Now, if you want to give people a "free" weekend pass to try the new stuff... sure. But after the weekend is done, they lose their goodies that they've earned. Yes, you pay money for extra content. You do not, however, restrict existing content because DLC is in rotation for the weeklies, which is why developers in other shooters use separate rotations. Bungie knows they will get very little criticism for this because of their overly loyal fanbase from Halo, and perhaps realise their DLC will not sell as well without the aggressive nature deployed. I will illustrate some examples with other games in how the approach to DLC in Destiny is approached by Bungie: Call of Duty multiplayer has DLC only maps in rotation for a whole week every 3-4 weeks. Borderlands 2 no longer allows players to pick up DLC gear in a trade instead of just prohibiting the ability to equip (if you try to buy something from Xur you are prompted with a paywall so you cannot get something from Xur in advance and equip after you have purchased the DLC) Gears of War 3 horde no longer allows vanilla players to use a Command Centre deployed by someone who owns it from the map pack DLC. If Bungie tries doing a Horde, expect this practice if they decide on using map based weapons. None of these happen, although I wouldn't be too surprised if Call of Duty tried it since they started gutting out non-cosmetic features and sold them as DLC, e.g. custom classes in Ghosts (Black Ops 2 was a bit different as you still had to earn each custom class due to not being able to change subsets when in a game). Gearbox loves their DLC but I doubt they would do this. And Epic Games would never butcher up their games, either in campaign or for multiplayer to spread the content as thinly as possible, otherwise I'm sure Unreal Tournament 4 and Gears of War 4 would have already been made by now.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Mar 8, 2015 2:01:14 GMT -5
I still don't know if I would call the daily/weekly/nightfall missions "content". They are extra challenge rehash modes with a few bonus rewards. Frankly I think splitting it between vanilla and DLC is actually more or less fair. It's not ideal and I'd prefer another solution. So I don't really see it as stealing from vanilla players. The main problem is at higher levels there's little else to do with the game other than run patrols for the bounty/patrol/public events farming, and the raids themselves.
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wings
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Post by wings on Mar 8, 2015 3:13:54 GMT -5
I still don't know if I would call the daily/weekly/nightfall missions "content". They are extra challenge rehash modes with a few bonus rewards. Frankly I think splitting it between vanilla and DLC is actually more or less fair. It's not ideal and I'd prefer another solution. So I don't really see it as stealing from vanilla players. The main problem is at higher levels there's little else to do with the game other than run patrols for the bounty/patrol/public events farming, and the raids themselves. They were there from the beginning so they are obviously not an extra. It's not quite stealing in the legal sense but exactly what else is there to do for people? The Raids that so few people have played? Bungie endorses the use of LFG and that is probably hit or miss and rigged with bugs. PvP? There are better games out there for that. Story? Better games for that too. Running around doing patrol missions? You might as well do side missions on Borderlands 2 and you get to use gear that is actually fun to use and the loot is more likely to be of use than ranking up in Destiny with bounties. Remind me, what was the budget for this franchise?
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Post by iw5000 on Mar 8, 2015 16:27:46 GMT -5
You can do DLC without dividing. Give some new guns. Give some items. Give some new shaders. All of these things, still allow DLC and non-DLC people to play together and the latter isn't hampered at all. So... I pay $$$ to play extra levels, and I'm pugging along with someone else who didn't? Bull$hit. F$$k that. You pay extra, you get extra stuff. You don't pay extra, you don't get extra. You want the nicest stuff, you pay for it. Now, if you want to give people a "free" weekend pass to try the new stuff... sure. But after the weekend is done, they lose their goodies that they've earned. You missed what I said.
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Post by qupie on Mar 9, 2015 4:51:44 GMT -5
If you get all the way to the point that you don't have anything to do except for nightfalls and weeklies, you should really buy the DLC. Why try to grind for end game gear, if you can't get to the end game?
I feel kinda like a dick for saying that, as I know some have other priorities for their money, but it is the truth. Other then that, destiny is still a very good value for 60 bucks, even if you don't get the DLC and can only play nightfall once every two weeks. You could/should have ALLOT of playtime in it already before you are at that point, most other games will already be sold/laid down by the time you get to playing nightfalls regularly.
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bradman
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Post by bradman on Mar 9, 2015 5:25:17 GMT -5
You have to think most players who regularly play Nightfalls are into the game to an extent that the DLC is a very attractive purchase. We're also talking about a small percentage of players overall. Check your trophies/achievements. Less than 20% of players have maxed an exotic or completed a raid. These are things that would be part and parcel to someone who regularly plays level 30 nightfalls, which are daunting endeavors. I think the biggest disconnect for Destiny is clearly setting out how to continue the game past level 20. I imagine quite a few players finished the story,messed about with crucible and put the game down for good.
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Post by iw5000 on Mar 9, 2015 8:17:02 GMT -5
- Most players don't raid because they simply don't have the social connections to group up with five other players. It's a nasty circular process. It's not just connections either. You to have to have other friends who are close to you in level, and have the specific time to group up on specific nights, to get the stuff done. It's not easy. You don't have all this lined up .....you then don't get Raid gear. AND then stay in that light level 25-28 range, which therefore makes it even harder to find people to raid with. Circular. Most people do not want to go to the hassle of LFG. That doesn't work for the masses. And as far as trying to get to level 30, via gear that's level 33, and other exotics? Read the next part...
- The above is made worse by the DLC splitting bullsh1t. And again, it's wrong. I am just amazed at how people don't get this. DLC is supposed to be EXTRA content that is optional for people to buy. Extra content that enhances the gaming experience over and above those non-buyers. When Bungie put in their DLC, they pretty much did the opposite. They ripped away part of the game from people who bought it. And this affected the casuals, the above people who didn't raid. These people paid their $60 for a game, that gave them these things to do when running solo:
- Story Missions (no rewards) - Vanguard Missions (ok rewards) - Bounties (no real rewards) - Dailies (ok rewards) - The Weekly (good/great rewards - plus single biggest way to get coins, which gets Exotics) - The Nightfall (great rewards)
Bungie just douchebagged it up and ripped the last two pieces of the game, right from the hands of the people who had bought it (or was it the last three?) Those people spent $60 and then had 40% of their game stolen from them. And the part of the game that still allowed them decent prizes without having to raid. That is wrong. Anyone arguing differently, you need a reality checvk, as that goes against everything historically fair about purchasing console games. And perhaps, just maybe, that's why Destiny is becoming more and more dead. It's a ghosttown. Casuals have left this game. Period. It's just difficult to advance up when just doing bounties, story missions and ROC missions. You go nowhere. You run in place. You then quit.
And the above also ties directly into my first point, on why most of the Destiny population hasn't raided yet. Two crucial pieces of gaming that might help these people, Bungie ripped right from them
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Mar 9, 2015 9:33:27 GMT -5
- Most players don't raid because they simply don't have the social connections to group up with five other players. It's a nasty circular process. It's not just connections either. You to have to have other friends who are close to you in level, and have the specific time to group up on specific nights, to get the stuff done. It's not easy. You don't have all this lined up .....you then don't get Raid gear. AND then stay in that light level 25-28 range, which therefore makes it even harder to find people to raid with. Circular. Most people do not want to go to the hassle of LFG. That doesn't work for the masses. And as far as trying to get to level 30, via gear that's level 33, and other exotics? Read the next part... Two things. One, if you want to raid and don't have the social connections, go Foxtroting make some social connections. It's not that hard. People make it out to be some big ordeal -- it's not. Before I joined here, I would've been in that boat where it would've been me and THebb with nobody else to play with. I went out and did something about it. Sorry, but I can't feel sorry for people who want to raid but won't make an effort to find a group, I just can't. I'm not a particularly social person by any means, and it was pretty gosh darn golly gee whiz easy for me to find a group to play with. Two, anyone can be level 31 from vendor gear in 2 or 3 weeks. Literally anyone. Nobody is stuck at 25-28 because they can't raid. Nothing in the next part has anything to do with it. All you have to do is grind out vendor marks which anyone can do at any time, and then you're geared well enough for CE normal (if you have the DLC) or VoG. - The above is made worse by the DLC splitting bullsh1t. And again, it's wrong. I am just amazed at how people don't get this. DLC is supposed to be EXTRA content that is optional for people to buy. Extra content that enhances the gaming experience over and above those non-buyers. When Bungie put in their DLC, they pretty much did the opposite. They ripped away part of the game from people who bought it. And this affected the casuals, the above people who didn't raid. These people paid their $60 for a game, that gave them these things to do when running solo: - Story Missions (no rewards) - Vanguard Missions (ok rewards) - Bounties (no real rewards) - Dailies (ok rewards) - The Weekly (good/great rewards - plus single biggest way to get coins, which gets Exotics) - The Nightfall (great rewards) Bungie just douchebagged it up and ripped the last two pieces of the game, right from the hands of the people who had bought it (or was it the last three?) Those people spent $60 and then had 40% of their game stolen from them. And the part of the game that still allowed them decent prizes without having to raid. That is wrong. Anyone arguing differently, you need a reality checvk, as that goes against everything historically fair about purchasing console games. And perhaps, just maybe, that's why Destiny is becoming more and more dead. It's a ghosttown. Casuals have left this game. Period. It's just difficult to advance up when just doing bounties, story missions and ROC missions. You go nowhere. You run in place. You then quit. And the above also ties directly into my first point, on why most of the Destiny population hasn't raided yet. Two crucial pieces of gaming that might help these people, Bungie ripped right from them I agree 100% that Bungie shouldn't lock non-DLC players out of Nightfalls/Weeklies/Dailies/Xur on some weeks. I don't think it'd be that hard to implement a dual rotation that'd give them something to do. I agree that something that they had at launch has been taken away from them, and that's not right. On the other hand, non-DLC players have access to level 31 vendor gear and 331 attack weapons, so they also did get some added stuff. I don't think that makes up for losing Nightfalls and whatnot, but it's something at least. As far as casuals leaving because it's too difficult to advance when doing bounties, Roc strikes, and whatnot? I just flat disagree there. It's extremely simple to advance -- you get enough marks to buy vendor gear, buy the vendor gear, upgrade that gear (which, granted, is going to take longer if you can't get the AMs for dailies or whatever, but still), and hit level 31. There's nothing inherently difficult about it. It just takes some time. It's not like raiding was a magic ticket to 32 where you do CE once and you're there, at least not for most people. Either way though, casuals were bound to leave the game sooner or later. I'd be more concerned with the lack of Touch Football players at this point. Most of that is due to burnout or boredom, because there's nothing left for them to do. The game has been out 6 months -- people are ready to do something else for a while. Whether or not those people come back with the HoW DLC is probably the biggest factor for the future of the game. I mean, look at our group. We've basically quit doing CE on hard because it's not as much fun as normal, and we're doing VoG stuff as much or more than CE now. Personally I have every exotic, 3 level 32 characters, almost every raid weapon I want, and a bunch of mats stored up. I don't really have any reason to play other than trying to help people here out. I actually spent all my playtime this weekend grinding out Ogre, Hydra, Colossus, and Psion kils for Grimoire score because I had nothing better to do. I've been doing more PvP lately for the same reason. There's just nothing left in PvE that's worth my time. I just bought Rocksmith 2014 -- if I'm going to dump hundreds of hours into a game, I might as well try to pick up a real world skill while I'm at it, right? -- so I imagine my time for Destiny will get cut down significantly very soon. I'll probably be in for Tuesday/Thursday stuff like always, but otherwise I'm pretty much done with the game.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Mar 9, 2015 9:46:49 GMT -5
There are a lot of reasons people don't raid. A lot of people don't even have a character high enough level to raid with. Destiny could really use an in game LFG system to support raiding, though.
As for the DLC I really don't agree that what Bungie has done is so egregious. I just don't. Dailies, weeklies, and nightfalls are nothing more than a few modifiers and rewards thrown on top of some same old missions to get us to replay them. la dee da... The only reason this is an issue is because there isn't much else to do at high levels. Yes, I'll give you that one. I think Brad has a point, though. If you don't buy the DLC you really don't need those missions as much, because your game ends faster. There's less to collect, less to do, just less... We are talking about a minority of players that are all the way up at the high levels, still want to play the NF and Weekly every week, and don't have the DLC.
Frankly Bungie just followed the model for DLC laid down by nearly every MMORPG out there and many ARPG's besides. They raised the level cap and added items and missions. They added onto the end of the end game. (Well they sort of replaced the end game, really...)
Having said that I think it's not fair to vanilla players to have weeks or days left out of the challenge missions and there should be a better system. But I just don't see the point getting worked up over it.
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Post by iw5000 on Mar 9, 2015 10:13:08 GMT -5
- Most players don't raid because they simply don't have the social connections to group up with five other players. It's a nasty circular process. It's not just connections either. You to have to have other friends who are close to you in level, and have the specific time to group up on specific nights, to get the stuff done. It's not easy. You don't have all this lined up .....you then don't get Raid gear. AND then stay in that light level 25-28 range, which therefore makes it even harder to find people to raid with. Circular. Most people do not want to go to the hassle of LFG. That doesn't work for the masses. And as far as trying to get to level 30, via gear that's level 33, and other exotics? Read the next part... Two things. One, if you want to raid and don't have the social connections, go Foxtroting make some social connections. It's not that hard. People make it out to be some big ordeal -- it's not. Before I joined here, I would've been in that boat where it would've been me and THebb with nobody else to play with. I went out and did something about it. Sorry, but I can't feel sorry for people who want to raid but won't make an effort to find a group, I just can't. I'm not a particularly social person by any means, and it was pretty gosh darn golly gee whiz easy for me to find a group to play with. Two, anyone can be level 31 from vendor gear in 2 or 3 weeks. Literally anyone. Nobody is stuck at 25-28 because they can't raid. Nothing in the next part has anything to do with it. All you have to do is grind out vendor marks which anyone can do at any time, and then you're geared well enough for CE normal (if you have the DLC) or VoG. Ok...and yes, but here's what you are missing. REALITY is that most people don't raid. REALITY is most people aren't level 31 or 32. I ain't making this up, those are BUNGIE'S STATS. Hate on Bungie, not my words. And a lot of people have stopped playing, that's another reality. So regardless of how easy you think it is, or hard I think it is....reality is that people aren't doing it. And if people aren't doing it, the status quo ain't working. There is no other way to look at it. Simply saying to these people, "NUT UP" (which I think they do need), but it isn't an answer If it were, they would have already done it. and as far as the Level 31 stuff...that was my point with the Nightfall/Weekly stuff. A builk of a person's strange coin inventory gathering is the weeklies. You take that away from a new person, that there is probably 90% of their means to getting coins. If it's easy, why do Bungie's stats in the past directly contradict the above? You know? There's a disconnect going on somewhere. Take even a few of my CoD friends. One of them you know. WineCracker. Four of these guys have been putzing around in the light level 20's for like FOREVER. Wine too. It wasn't until he grouped up with us, that he suddenly started ramping up into doing everything. This isn't a clueless person. He knows how to make friends. But yet he was struggling. That is reality. Good points.
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Post by iw5000 on Mar 9, 2015 10:14:34 GMT -5
There are a lot of reasons people don't raid. A lot of people don't even have a character high enough level to raid with. Destiny could really use an in game LFG system to support raiding, though. As for the DLC I really don't agree that what Bungie has done is so egregious. I just don't. Dailies, weeklies, and nightfalls are nothing more than a few modifiers and rewards thrown on top of some same old missions to get us to replay them. la dee da... The only reason this is an issue is because there isn't much else to do at high levels. Yes, I'll give you that one. I think Brad has a point, though. If you don't buy the DLC you really don't need those missions as much, because your game ends faster. There's less to collect, less to do, just less... We are talking about a minority of players that are all the way up at the high levels, still want to play the NF and Weekly every week, and don't have the DLC. Frankly Bungie just followed the model for DLC laid down by nearly every MMORPG out there and many ARPG's besides. They raised the level cap and added items and missions. They added onto the end of the end game. (Well they sort of replaced the end game, really...) Having said that I think it's not fair to vanilla players to have weeks or days left out of the challenge missions and there should be a better system. But I just don't see the point getting worked up over it. I have never played a console game, EVER in the history of my gaming....that brought up DLC that REMOVED core parts of the game that I had already purchased. Never. It's wrong.
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qupie
True Bro
Posts: 12,400
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Post by qupie on Mar 9, 2015 10:20:28 GMT -5
As is, it is completely doable to get to LvL 31 without raiding. if anything, raiding only got easier after DLC if you didn't buy it. You can get to lvl 31 and then play it LFG or with a smaller group. Because it won't be as hard. I think for casual players, this is more then enough, if you didn't buy the DLC, the vault of glass is your end-game. You don't need a Gjallorhorn to play that. Casual players are not collecting all exotics. If you want more then 3 exotics, you are not a casual, you should just buy that DLC. As for that reality check, sound like you need one : - Destiny is about more then just rewards. - Nightfall and weekly being 80% of the game is Bull$heit. - "It's just difficult to advance up when just doing bounties, story missions and ROC missions." is totally irrilevant to the topic, because those ppl couldn't play nightfall anyway (to low lvl), and it actually got quite a bit faster to get to lvl 30! - after playing Destiny more then two times as many hours as I did with any COD game, is it really that weird that I am running out of stuff to do? People need to put things in perspective a little more when complaining about stuff to do in Destiny. I agree that they could have done it in another way, and that would probably have been better, just a second rotation as has been said before. But saying they stole 80% of the game, common. It would also introduce another problem btw, another division, as you wouldn't be able to play nightfall with a DLC-less bro anyway. Nobody I know bought this game to play nightfall strikes. They bought it play casually with friends, have a social shooter experience, to raid or hell, some ppl even bought it for the PvP. The nightfall is a way to get rewards, nobody buys a game to get in game rewards. It is also challenging and fun, which is probably the point you are trying to make (if you don't cheese it, which everybody does), but to get that fun, you could also just run a strike mission three levels above your own lvl. It really only takes away an easy way to get exotics (half of the time!). All they did is take away a big portion of the chance to get random exotics, thats it. Nothing to do with gameplay, only with Pokemon syndrome and end game. They didn't really take anything away you paid for, you only get to play it less often. Ever been in the DLC rotation of CoD WaW? Now THAT is wrong
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Post by TheHawkNY on Mar 9, 2015 10:22:43 GMT -5
Matchmaking for raids would be the worst thing imaginable.
Picture doing just the hard mode Crota fight with 5 other players, none of whom have ever played together before or will play together again. Some of them won't have mics. You may feel it necessary to mute some of them. Some of them won't shoot rockets for absolutely no reason. Some of them won't let other people know they're out of heavy ammo. Some of them won't bring heavy ammo packs, or simply won't use them. Two people will rush to get the sword. No one will drop a bubble. A guy will go afk and not get close to the shard so you can start.
To put it simply, matchmaking for raids would be counterproductive to encouraging more people to participate in them.
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