wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Oct 5, 2015 12:26:46 GMT -5
PreludeFirst, I have to admit that I am a hoarder. I don't throw anything away unless absolutely sure, due to fear of losing a gem. This has created a very big problem: inventory space overflow. I have so much crap in my inventory, that every time I came back to Tower, I have to do what Pegasus Actual refers to as "garbage management", by removing existing garbages to make room for more garbage. Increasingly, I am spending more time on garbage management than actually playing the game! This can't continue, and I need a solution. I need to acquire a much better understanding on what perks are good (god rolls) on each weapon class+archetype combo. This post is a plead for help on this aspect, and hopefully other bros can benefit from the discussion as well. There are a few bros here who are PvP veterans and are very knowledgeable on weapons: @extrooper / qupie / hebbnh. Do you guys have any insights to share? Good resource links (say Reddit posts on Destiny Crucible Playbook) that I can read? Thanks!
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Oct 5, 2015 13:02:11 GMT -5
All I've seen that's pretty in-depth from Crucible Playbook so far is this guide for sniper rifles: www.reddit.com/r/CruciblePlaybook/comments/3lzyc2/sniper_guide_taken_king_edition/Fusion rifles and shotguns don't seem to have changed too much. Any high-impact fusion with good range and stability should be fine, preferably with grenadier or army of one to help your ability cooldowns. High-impact, high-range shotguns (preferably with shot package) like Party Crasher or Conspiracy Theory are still the way to go. Same deal with heavies -- you want a high-impact, stable MG or proximity rockets. The Vertigo from the FWC vendor is a solid choice there IMHO. Outside of that, I've seen loads of recommendations for either Red Death or Bad Juju being the best primary choice. I've also seen some suggestions for Hawkmoon and a few well-rolled scout rifles, but Hawkmoon can be tough to use and your mileage may vary on what kind of scout rifles you've gotten. Red Death and Bad Juju are both pretty easy to come by and pretty easy to use, so I'd say save up some marks and grab one of those if you haven't already.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Oct 5, 2015 13:24:46 GMT -5
All I've seen that's pretty in-depth from Crucible Playbook so far is this guide for sniper rifles: www.reddit.com/r/CruciblePlaybook/comments/3lzyc2/sniper_guide_taken_king_edition/Fusion rifles and shotguns don't seem to have changed too much. Any high-impact fusion with good range and stability should be fine, preferably with grenadier or army of one to help your ability cooldowns. High-impact, high-range shotguns (preferably with shot package) like Party Crasher or Conspiracy Theory are still the way to go. Same deal with heavies -- you want a high-impact, stable MG or proximity rockets. The Vertigo from the FWC vendor is a solid choice there IMHO. Outside of that, I've seen loads of recommendations for either Red Death or Bad Juju being the best primary choice. I've also seen some suggestions for Hawkmoon and a few well-rolled scout rifles, but Hawkmoon can be tough to use and your mileage may vary on what kind of scout rifles you've gotten. Red Death and Bad Juju are both pretty easy to come by and pretty easy to use, so I'd say save up some marks and grab one of those if you haven't already. After buying Hung Jury last weekend (easily THE best vendor purchase of my Destiny play history, so highly recommended), I have my eyes on the Y2 Red Death next, to prepare for Iron Banner and possibly ToO next week. Surprised that Bad Juju is also great, so I'll have to do more research on which one to buy first. What are the recommendations on Scout Rifles (ideal perks by archetypes)? I am a sucker of both ScoutR and SniperR, so many of my hoarded pieces are in these categories. Trying to decide which ones to keep and which one to scrap (through infuse or dismantle).
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Oct 5, 2015 13:35:10 GMT -5
I don't have much information right now, but once I find something, I will put it in here! Would be nice to create some kind of consensus by ourselves! Just some random things:
Auto rifles. Even though their TTK is not superb, it is my current weapon of choice. They work best in short to long medium range. I like the middle class archetype (like monte carlo). The monte carlo itself is actually pretty good, but you probably are not going to use the exotic perk that much in PvP (unless you spec for it, like knifes and smoke bombs for days on a hunter). Suros ARI-45 seems to be a good contender if you like the slower firing AR's. Stability is what it is all about, combined with range. (and mag size to some extend, but that doesn't change too much)
Pulse rifles. These are probably the best primary weapons right now, if you can use them. They excel at mid to long range. Both red death and bad juju are great exotic choices, the first is better at medium range, while the latter can handle itself a little better in shorter range. The vendor Hawksaw seems to be a good high rate of fire one, if that is your thing. The stability is almost full. Other than that, I don't have much experience with it, the key in pulse rifles seems to be stability though.
Handcannons. They have lost their superb position. They are probably somewhere in the same place as auto rifles are. If it is really your thing, you will be able to dominate with it. Hawkmoon is probably the best choice here. I don't recommend it though, unless you really think hand cannons are your best weapon. They are really only good if you are short ranged.
Scout rifles. Don't have any experience with them in PvP, but I am looking to get some. There seem to be allot of good choices, including the exotics. If you like to hang back this is easily the best weapon to choose. On some small maps they will simply be outclassed by pulses though (I think).
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Snipers. 1000 yard stare is a good crucible sniper, if you want to be able to revive kill. If you are not playing a revive game type, the new iron banner sniper rifle is discussed to be a better version of the praedyth's revenge. Other than that, only the highest impact sniper rifles are able to OHK sunbreaker titans in their super. So black spindle/hammer spear all have their place too. (although I don't think there will be a new spear, so that only leaves the spindle for IB/ToO) Other than that, these snipers are actually not that great in PvP.
Shotguns. I am using my conspiracy theory shotgun which I got from a quest. It had range finder and other decent perks (performance bonus is very nice too!). Although I have read range finder was nerfed, I was not able to find a better shotgun so far. Still looking to get a party crasher +1 (yes, you can get one with new attack values) from crucible. Seems that they drop allot less though, and they are not reforgable. So getting that god roll is going to take a while/luck. All in all, I would say, keep that conspiracy theory, and keep and extensively try out every shotgun you get with shot-package before you dismantle it.
Fusions. There are a few 50 damage per projectile fusions, for example the omolon one you could order with the gunsmith. This gives you a benefit as you only need to land 4 projectiles on most targets. Other than that, impact doesn't really do anything significant in crucible. Stability is key in fusions, don't let people fool you range matters, because it is really non significant. So as a rule of thumb: as long as you don't get 50 damage per projectile, go for a high as possible charge rate, without sacrificing too much stability.
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Heavy machine guns. I think the raid HMG will probably be one of the best choices, as it has an huge mag for its archetype, combined with decent stability. Other than that, stability and mag size seem to be the most important things (again).
Rocket launchers. I have promoted the Future War Cults Vertigo in the past, but I did see some worrying things about it. The biggest drawback is that it can only have two rockets per heavy weapon drop in the crucible! Even when combined with +rocket ammo boots. The only way to boost the ammo reserve is to use the old raid boots, which boost both LMG AND rocket ammo, which gives you 3 rockets per drop. This is not a super good advice for stuff like iron banner and ToO, but keep in mind that your average light level counts. So if you have really high light level gear, you could stay high even with 170 light boots. So I would not throw these out yet! Another probably easier solution, is to keep any other rocket launcher with grenade and horseshoes and see how much ammo you get with that. Try to aim for as much blast radius and velocity as possible. Other than that, the Truth still gets 4 rockets with + rocket ammo, so in ToO, switching exotics in the heavy round just got even more effective.
Hope this helps a little, if I get some more concrete information, I will post here!
p.s. if you don't get a high roll on an exotic, just dismantle or infuse it into something else, as you can buy them back really cheap! This will easily save you some space! Especially if you just want to keep it for pokemon reasons, just dismantle them, you still have them at professor Oak.
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wittyscorpion
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All warfare is based on deception.
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Post by wittyscorpion on Oct 5, 2015 13:47:35 GMT -5
Great posts, guys, very useful. On my next garbage management exercise I am gonna have a much clearer mental picture of what to look for.
While we are at PvP, we might as well get this out of the way: best loadouts (subclass talents + exotic armor) for the 3 new subclasses?
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Oct 5, 2015 13:59:48 GMT -5
I don't really know... Shadestep seems to be golden for hunters (as is the enhanced tracker, so the exotic which grants shadestep is a good pick), and the titan super is superb as far as I know.
This video I just found is great to understand the sunbreaker further. It is a great channel, also for the older classes, this is his first video post TTk though, but he will probably do the other classes as well.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Oct 5, 2015 14:02:38 GMT -5
Talking about Sunbreaker, this joke cracks me up:
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Oct 5, 2015 14:26:12 GMT -5
Oh yeah, forgot to mention that I've seen a lot of good reviews about the Herja-D pulse rifle from the gunsmith package this past week. The one with counterbalance, army of one, and injection mold, specifically. I haven't had much of a chance to get acquainted with it, but I like it better than the Lyudmila-D with the exact same perks from the previous week.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Oct 5, 2015 14:35:50 GMT -5
Oh yeah, forgot to mention that I've seen a lot of good reviews about the Herja-D pulse rifle from the gunsmith package this past week. The one with counterbalance, army of one, and injection mold, specifically. I haven't had much of a chance to get acquainted with it, but I like it better than the Lyudmila-D with the exact same perks from the previous week. I love that weapon (only used in PvE), feels so right. I have an equivalent in Lyudmilla of similar perks, OK enough, but the RoF is too slow to my liking.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Oct 5, 2015 14:53:50 GMT -5
On ScoutR: I started using them during the content draught time period right before TTK, and have a little bit experience. My 2 cents:
MiDA feels great, has just the right balance of fire rate and impact, and can win a strafing gun flight quite easily with Lightweight, Hunter fast feet boots make it even more awesome. Third Eye is always useful in Crucible. I like to play it on maps that have the space, and combine with SniperR. MiDA can do a fantastic job on post-SR body shot cleanups. Too bad it does not have Y2 upgrade, and its archetype did not make a return. Still great for regular crucible.
Briefly tried Boolean Gemini in the PvP, its archetype has the problem of slow RoF. Did not like it.
Maybe the faster RoF/lower impact ScoutR is the way to go, if I can get full auto on it. Pretty much a slow firing AutoR without the range drop off problem.
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malgato
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Post by malgato on Oct 5, 2015 16:06:33 GMT -5
For Warlocks only - Tlaloc is an awesome option to consider. It has a great balance between rate of fire and impact. It gets even deadly when your super is full. All aspects are increased under this condition. I'm not sure any gun is as good when super is full, but it does mean saving your super. I tried it this weekend on the skirmish daily. I went 23-10 which is one of my best games since TTK dropped. Better players will have even better results.
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wittyscorpion
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All warfare is based on deception.
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Post by wittyscorpion on Oct 5, 2015 16:11:04 GMT -5
For Warlocks only - Tlaloc is an awesome option to consider. It has a great balance between rate of fire and impact. It gets even deadly when your super is full. All aspects are increased under this condition. I'm not sure any gun is as good when super is full, but it does mean saving your super. I tried it this weekend on the skirmish daily. I went 23-10 which is one of my best games since TTK dropped. Better players will have even better results. Wow. I was underwhelmed by the weapon's deceivingly looking stats and perks, so I haven't even played with it. Now I have gotta try this! As Sunsinger, we often have to hold off our supers and admire our Nightstalker/Sunbreaker teammates raining orbs, now we have a good excuse for that Warlock has always been my second favorite behind Hunter, but it was in danger of losing to Titan because the Hammers are so awesome. Now the competition is back on...
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Oct 6, 2015 3:04:57 GMT -5
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Oct 6, 2015 4:36:20 GMT -5
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tooros
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Post by tooros on Oct 6, 2015 9:30:08 GMT -5
Looking at the above: 'Not Like The Others?'
That aim assist?
Anyone tried it?
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Oct 6, 2015 9:40:05 GMT -5
I have not tried it. I think it will depend on the recoil. It has pretty low stability, but is that going to be a problem with a scout rifle in that RoF class? I don't know. Seems to be the opposite of hung jury, which is awesome stability but low aim assist.
Only one way to find out!
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Post by blackbarney on Oct 6, 2015 9:44:14 GMT -5
qupie, your earlier post on the weapons combined with that post you linked from Reddit are some of the best weapon analysis and summaries I've seen yet. Thanks so much!
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Oct 6, 2015 10:01:16 GMT -5
Looking at the above: 'Not Like The Others?' That aim assist? Anyone tried it? I got a 298 attack one early and that was my goto primary for PvE until I got the 307 raid ScoutR. I liked it a lot, but have not tried to use it in PvP. My current PvP is limited to getting the daily 15 marks. Once I can spend more time with PvP, hopefully I can experiment more with weapons and perks. Only got 2 weeks to do it though with Battlefront beta this weekend and Halo 5 drop on 10/27 just around the corner. Also: even if I do play PvP a lot, I am not sure I have a relaible way to compare weapons. Despite Bungie claiming an improved SBMM, the PvP I played so far matched me with players all over the place, try hards one day, walk overs another. This is the biggest gripe I have about PvP, no way to know whether I am getting better or not.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Oct 6, 2015 14:11:11 GMT -5
Crucible Radio interview with Bungie's Jon Weisnewski (the link below starts towards the end of the video with him explaining range, aim assists and accuracy in-depth):
What he is saying is hard to transcribe. So you'll have to "watch" (no visuals so basically just listen to) the video.
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Oct 7, 2015 14:51:45 GMT -5
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Oct 8, 2015 17:20:39 GMT -5
Could this finally be the downfall of shotty in PvP? In this week's BWU:
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malgato
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Post by malgato on Oct 8, 2015 21:58:45 GMT -5
Shotgun nerf sounds good to me.
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Oct 9, 2015 3:25:54 GMT -5
That is not as bad as I thought it would be! IMHO, shotguns need to be made so it can never OHK a full health player, but will regularly put them at 10% health or something. This way, you will need to hit your target with a follow up, or soften them up before you charge in recklessly.
This will still mean you can easily win close range fights with shotgun + melee (or another shotgun shot). But reduces the amount of multi kills with shotguns, as well as increasing the chances of a trade against non shotgun users if you simply charge at them in open field.
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malgato
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Post by malgato on Oct 9, 2015 10:18:32 GMT -5
I think shotgun one shot kill is fine, but the range within which that can occur should be very close quarters. Like melee range (think Titan melee range).
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Oct 9, 2015 12:11:51 GMT -5
So, basically, make them into CoD shotguns? Yeah, I'm sure that'll work out just fine...
Shotguns have to be able to 1-shot or there's no reason to use them, and they have to be able to do it at a range outside punching distance or there's no reason to use them. Removing shot package is a good first step. Personally I think rangefinder should probably be removed as well. I got lucky and got a Y2 Party Crasher as a crucible drop the other day. No rangefinder or shot package, but it does hit the range cap and is in the 2nd highest shotgun impact tier. It works how shotguns in this game should work. It kills things within approximately 3 or 4 meters, and 2-shots outside of that, which means I trade at best because the fire rate is pretty slow. Rangefinder and shot package both push that 1-shot range into OP territory. With those perks gone, fusions should be the best choice for a secondary at intermediate distances, with snipers obviously keeping their spot as the best choice at longer ranges.
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Oct 11, 2015 17:52:52 GMT -5
Halo had the shotgun balance perfect imho. Not being ohk is not bad. Just give them enough range, but limit the maximum damage output.
Or maybe make it a ohk within melee distance, and then do 150 damage from melee till 10 meters before dropping off or something. Simply limiting the range is hard though, as players are very mobile, which increases the fictional ohk by allot. (Blink pre nerf, but also slide and jump) therefore only looking at range is a bad idea imho. It needs to be abysmal to actually change anything
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malgato
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Post by malgato on Oct 11, 2015 19:02:42 GMT -5
Halo had the shotgun balance perfect imho. Not being ohk is not bad. Just give them enough range, but limit the maximum damage output. Or maybe make it a ohk within melee distance, and then do 150 damage from melee till 10 meters before dropping off or something. Simply limiting the range is hard though, as players are very mobile, which increases the fictional ohk by allot. (Blink pre nerf, but also slide and jump) therefore only looking at range is a bad idea imho. It needs to be abysmal to actually change anything This. This is what I want for shotguns.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Oct 12, 2015 19:02:57 GMT -5
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wings
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Post by wings on Oct 12, 2015 19:17:48 GMT -5
So, basically, make them into CoD shotguns? Yeah, I'm sure that'll work out just fine... Bungie makes the game overly favouring fast paced CQC then nerfs shotguns anyway, and then continue to make more cramped maps like Drifter with sight lines as long as your arm. A lot of maps feel like Nuketown to me.
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Post by blackbarney on Oct 13, 2015 10:15:53 GMT -5
Did that guy make build guides for other classes too? Like the titan ones for instance?
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