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Post by seanbateman on Dec 16, 2015 11:39:37 GMT -5
What are the ar and smg suppressor stats now?
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Post by dunsparceflinch on Dec 16, 2015 12:02:12 GMT -5
-65% on all ARs except the Kn-44
-30% on all SMGs, all pistols, and the Kn-44
-90% on all LMGs
Kn-44 gets treated like a Pistol when it comes to suppressor and long barrel due to having a short range 3HK and then being a 4HK after that.
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Post by lackingdamage on Dec 16, 2015 12:17:44 GMT -5
So, how do suppressors actually work on shotguns? The in game stats make no mention of a range reduction, but I know that can't be true. Anyone know how much range is reduced? It's a 30% range reduction on all shotguns, with the Argus also getting a 10% reduction on all damage dealt. I was fine with that at first, but now that ARs, SMGs, and Pistols got suppressor buffs, the Shotguns and LMGs really need suppressor buffs as well. Shotguns should be a 20% reduction and LMGs should be an 85% reduction. Shotguns should get a free suppressor no range or damage nerfs. Or give the haymaker free suppressor.
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Post by dunsparceflinch on Dec 16, 2015 12:27:10 GMT -5
It's a 30% range reduction on all shotguns, with the Argus also getting a 10% reduction on all damage dealt. I was fine with that at first, but now that ARs, SMGs, and Pistols got suppressor buffs, the Shotguns and LMGs really need suppressor buffs as well. Shotguns should be a 20% reduction and LMGs should be an 85% reduction. Shotguns should get a free suppressor no range or damage nerfs. Or give the haymaker free suppressor. Or they could just make the shotguns good enough normally and reduce the suppressor's penalty. Free-Suppressor with no penalty only worked for the spas-12 in BO1 because it would have been otherwise a bad shotgun. BO2 had the right idea with making the shotguns decent and minimizing the penalty of suppressors on shotguns.
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Post by lackingdamage on Dec 20, 2015 9:18:40 GMT -5
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Post by TheHawkNY on Dec 20, 2015 10:05:20 GMT -5
Shotguns should get a free suppressor no range or damage nerfs. Or give the haymaker free suppressor. Or they could just make the shotguns good enough normally and reduce the suppressor's penalty. Free-Suppressor with no penalty only worked for the spas-12 in BO1 because it would have been otherwise a bad shotgun. BO2 had the right idea with making the shotguns decent and minimizing the penalty of suppressors on shotguns. Have we been playing different games? The shotguns in BO3 are so much better than BO2, it's not even close. First, let's just look at a list of some of the non-shotgun changes to the game that are advantageous to shotguns on the whole: -Infinite sprint -Boost jumping and sliding -The inclusion of sound files for footsteps -Multiple perks for visual detection of close range enemies -A perk that allows you to fire while sprinting -Specialist abilities that can give you a huge advantage in a gunfight -C4 can't be thrown and immediately detonated Then we can include the base damage they gave shotguns, making them much more consistent. Then we can factor in the increased ping transparency and the obviously improved hit detection which make the Argus much more consistent than the KSG. You can't just look at the gun stats and act as if these changes aren't important to gun balancing. As for buffing the suppressor on shotguns - are you mad? First off, let's just put out there that 90% of people that use silenced shotguns do so like complete aholes. But they also already have more than enough range that they're perfectly fine with suppressor as is.
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Post by dunsparceflinch on Dec 20, 2015 11:21:55 GMT -5
First off what the do mean by "do it like complete a holes"?
Second let me put it this way:
- Snipers are the most long range of weapons, but are completely useless closer than mid range, so logically you reduce their long range dominance with a suppressor.
- LMGs are the second most long range weapon and are kinda usable in close range and somewhat usable in short range, so logically you reduce their long range and mid range viability with a suppressor, which would be best achieved with an 85% range reduction.
- ARs are viable in all ranges, but best at mid range, so logically you reduce their mid range and short range viability, which would be best achieved with a 65% range reduction.
- SMGs are viable in all ranges closer than long range, but best at short range and close range, so logically you reduce their mid range and short range viability, which can best be achieved with a 30% reduction.
- Shotguns are only viable in close range and short range, so logically you reduce just short range viability with suppressor, which can best be achieved with just a 20% reduction to all ranges (and a damage reduction to the Argus so that the Argus gets signicant 1HK range reduction).
I get that the new movement mechanics of this game favor shotguns for the most part and shotguns are now more consistent than previous CoDs with their new damage systems, but the KRM still needs more 1HK range and the Haymaker and Brecci need more close range damage. And suppressor is just not balanced well on most shotguns. Yes, I know that suppressor gives fairly big penalties for other weapon classes, but X% is going to have the most affect on a shotgun, then SMGs will be affected more than ARs, and then ARs will be affected more than LMGs. (Snipers are different because of their complete uselessness at close range and short range.)
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Post by -3055- on Dec 20, 2015 11:56:06 GMT -5
Or they could just make the shotguns good enough normally and reduce the suppressor's penalty. Free-Suppressor with no penalty only worked for the spas-12 in BO1 because it would have been otherwise a bad shotgun. BO2 had the right idea with making the shotguns decent and minimizing the penalty of suppressors on shotguns. Have we been playing different games? The shotguns in BO3 are so much better than BO2, it's not even close. First, let's just look at a list of some of the non-shotgun changes to the game that are advantageous to shotguns on the whole: -Infinite sprint -Boost jumping and sliding -The inclusion of sound files for footsteps -Multiple perks for visual detection of close range enemies -A perk that allows you to fire while sprinting -Specialist abilities that can give you a huge advantage in a gunfight -C4 can't be thrown and immediately detonated Then we can include the base damage they gave shotguns, making them much more consistent. Then we can factor in the increased ping transparency and the obviously improved hit detection which make the Argus much more consistent than the KSG. You can't just look at the gun stats and act as if these changes aren't important to gun balancing. As for buffing the suppressor on shotguns - are you mad? First off, let's just put out there that 90% of people that use silenced shotguns do so like complete aholes. But they also already have more than enough range that they're perfectly fine with suppressor as is. I got absolutely shit on by a dude using ADS only brecci while i was hip firing. Turns out the brecci can be a 2sk to the end of its range if you ads and hit dead on.
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Post by dunsparceflinch on Dec 20, 2015 11:59:06 GMT -5
That 1.4 headshot multiplier probably helps too when ADS'd.
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Post by -3055- on Dec 20, 2015 12:01:26 GMT -5
First off what the do mean by "do it like complete a holes"? Second let me put it this way: - Snipers are the most long range of weapons, but are completely useless closer than mid range, so logically you reduce their long range dominance with a suppressor. - LMGs are the second most long range weapon and are kinda usable in close range and somewhat usable in short range, so logically you reduce their long range and mid range viability with a suppressor, which would be best achieved with an 85% range reduction. - ARs are viable in all ranges, but best at mid range, so logically you reduce their mid range and short range viability, which would be best achieved with a 65% range reduction. - SMGs are viable in all ranges closer than long range, but best at short range and close range, so logically you reduce their mid range and short range viability, which can best be achieved with a 30% reduction. - Shotguns are only viable in close range and short range, so logically you reduce just short range viability with suppressor, which can best be achieved with just a 20% reduction to all ranges (and a damage reduction to the Argus so that the Argus gets signicant 1HK range reduction). I get that the new movement mechanics of this game favor shotguns for the most part and shotguns are now more consistent than previous CoDs with their new damage systems, but the KRM still needs more 1HK range and the Haymaker and Brecci need more close range damage. And suppressor is just not balanced well on most shotguns. Yes, I know that suppressor gives fairly big penalties for other weapon classes, but X% is going to have the most affect on a shotgun, then SMGs will be affected more than ARs, and then ARs will be affected more than LMGs. (Snipers are different because of their complete uselessness at close range and short range.) Ignore the % range decrease for a second. If a teammate gets killed by an non-shotgun and both minimap firing pings and weapon sound didn't exist, how easy would it be to pinpoint the killer's location? Pretty fucking hard. Now think of the same scenario but with a shotgun. You know exactly where they were: right next to them. Suppressor is supposed to keep your enemies constantly guessing your locations and makes camp kills a lot safer. This isn't really possible with a shotgun that isn't the argus. If you're using a shotgun, chances are you're constantly running, patrolling a building. You don't need stealth for that. Also, suppressor could be 5% range reduction and I still wouldn't use that shit. I'll take every inch i get. I'll take it like a big boy.
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Post by dunsparceflinch on Dec 20, 2015 12:17:56 GMT -5
Yes, but running around means you are likely flanking. And while you probably will hear a silenced shotgun if they shoot near you, you are much less likely to notice and then pinpoint a shotgunner that killed someone in the next room or two.
You have to have some sort of penalty for suppressor on any gun or else there becomes too much incentive to use the suppressor. At 20% range penalty, the suppressor on shotguns becomes more in line with the suppressor on other guns, as in there is incentive to use suppressor, but it has enough downside to not be an overused attachment.
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Post by TheHawkNY on Dec 20, 2015 12:23:45 GMT -5
First off what the do mean by "do it like complete a holes"? Second let me put it this way: - Snipers are the most long range of weapons, but are completely useless closer than mid range, so logically you reduce their long range dominance with a suppressor. - LMGs are the second most long range weapon and are kinda usable in close range and somewhat usable in short range, so logically you reduce their long range and mid range viability with a suppressor, which would be best achieved with an 85% range reduction. - ARs are viable in all ranges, but best at mid range, so logically you reduce their mid range and short range viability, which would be best achieved with a 65% range reduction. - SMGs are viable in all ranges closer than long range, but best at short range and close range, so logically you reduce their mid range and short range viability, which can best be achieved with a 30% reduction. - Shotguns are only viable in close range and short range, so logically you reduce just short range viability with suppressor, which can best be achieved with just a 20% reduction to all ranges (and a damage reduction to the Argus so that the Argus gets signicant 1HK range reduction). I get that the new movement mechanics of this game favor shotguns for the most part and shotguns are now more consistent than previous CoDs with their new damage systems, but the KRM still needs more 1HK range and the Haymaker and Brecci need more close range damage. And suppressor is just not balanced well on most shotguns. Yes, I know that suppressor gives fairly big penalties for other weapon classes, but X% is going to have the most affect on a shotgun, then SMGs will be affected more than ARs, and then ARs will be affected more than LMGs. (Snipers are different because of their complete uselessness at close range and short range.) Generally, they're playing "guess which corner I'm in", but sometimes they're just laying in random places. You're not understanding the shotgun balance correctly. The KRM and Haymaker are designed for bad players, the Argus and Brecci for good players. The KRM can't be buffed significantly, because if they're just handing out free kills to garbage players, and it's statistically as good as the guns designed for good players, everyone will use it and it will become annoying (see the R870 for reference). The Haymaker can't be buffed to a 2 hit kill because, you know, Gung Ho plus a full auto shotgun that works really well is a recipe for disaster. The Brecci is a beast and doesn't need a buff. You're also missing some factors. The benefits of staying off the map with a Shotgun are greater than with other classes. Knowing the exact position of someone with a shotgun is a much bigger advantage than the position of someone with an AR. Another factor you haven't mentioned is the opportunity cost. ARs, LMGs, and SMGs all have a plethora of worthwhile attachments. Shotguns really don't have many worthwhile attachments to choose from, and so making suppressor really good would make it essentially the default to use, which seems to be the complete opposite of the changes they made to suppressor in BO3. I hate to say it - I think they may have done shotguns right in BO3. Making suppressor good on them would break that.
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Post by flatulentmonkeys on Dec 20, 2015 12:41:23 GMT -5
I have nothing to add, but I'd like to point something out. This conversation is the exact reason why this message board is so fantastic. Opinions backed by facts, mature discussions, and a plethora of differing opinions. So awesome.
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Post by dunsparceflinch on Dec 20, 2015 12:51:11 GMT -5
Except suppressor is already ridiculously good on the Brecci and Haymaker because it doesn't affect all ranges. What I'm suggesting for the suppressor on shotguns would make it better on the Argus and KRM but worse for the Brecci and Haymaker.
The KRM with range buffed wouldn't become annoying like he 870 because it still would fire much slower than the 870. Right now it has the absolute worst 1HK range of any shotgun in the history of CoD, which is not acceptable even with the new movement system. With a suppressor is barely has more 1HK range than the combat knife. 10 meters unsuppressed and 8 meters suppressed of potential 1HK range and 7.6 meters unsuppressed and 6 meters suppressed of likely 1HK range would be perfect.
The Brecci is good at short range, but is not good enough at close range. Hell I'd even take more close range damage in exchange for less short range damage.
Haymaker is similar to the Brecci in that it's good at short range but not good enough at close range. Like the Brecci I wouldn't mind less short range damage in exchange for more close range damage.
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Post by TheHawkNY on Dec 20, 2015 13:26:45 GMT -5
Except suppressor is already ridiculously good on the Brecci and Haymaker because it doesn't affect all ranges. What I'm suggesting for the suppressor on shotguns would make it better on the Argus and KRM but worse for the Brecci and Haymaker. The KRM with range buffed wouldn't become annoying like he 870 because it still would fire much slower than the 870. Right now it has the absolute worst 1HK range of any shotgun in the history of CoD, which is not acceptable even with the new movement system. With a suppressor is barely has more 1HK range than the combat knife. 10 meters unsuppressed and 8 meters suppressed of potential 1HK range and 7.6 meters unsuppressed and 6 meters suppressed of likely 1HK range would be perfect. The Brecci is good at short range, but is not good enough at close range. Hell I'd even take more close range damage in exchange for less short range damage. Haymaker is similar to the Brecci in that it's good at short range but not good enough at close range. Like the Brecci I wouldn't mind less short range damage in exchange for more close range damage. What you're talking about with the KRM is kind of like complaining that a Huffy can't keep up with a road bike. It's designed to be the training wheels. The design intent is not for all four shotguns to be balanced and equal. As for the Argus, dear lord no. It's filthy already.
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Post by dunsparceflinch on Dec 20, 2015 13:53:59 GMT -5
Except suppressor is already ridiculously good on the Brecci and Haymaker because it doesn't affect all ranges. What I'm suggesting for the suppressor on shotguns would make it better on the Argus and KRM but worse for the Brecci and Haymaker. The KRM with range buffed wouldn't become annoying like he 870 because it still would fire much slower than the 870. Right now it has the absolute worst 1HK range of any shotgun in the history of CoD, which is not acceptable even with the new movement system. With a suppressor is barely has more 1HK range than the combat knife. 10 meters unsuppressed and 8 meters suppressed of potential 1HK range and 7.6 meters unsuppressed and 6 meters suppressed of likely 1HK range would be perfect. The Brecci is good at short range, but is not good enough at close range. Hell I'd even take more close range damage in exchange for less short range damage. Haymaker is similar to the Brecci in that it's good at short range but not good enough at close range. Like the Brecci I wouldn't mind less short range damage in exchange for more close range damage. What you're talking about with the KRM is kind of like complaining that a Huffy can't keep up with a road bike. It's designed to be the training wheels. The design intent is not for all four shotguns to be balanced and equal. As for the Argus, dear lord no. It's filthy already. I didn't say to buff the Argus, just the suppressed Argus. All I'm talking about is 14% more 1HK ADS range with the suppressed Argus, which would bring its 1HK ADS range with the suppressor up to around 10m. KRM isn't THAT easy to get kills with. Yes it has a very short range in which you are almost guaranteed to win, but the 1HK range is so short that you are forced to make up for it by sliding a lot (which throws off your aim a little), and picking your engagements more than you would with other weapon classes. It's not easy mode, just slightly more forgiving at aiming than other weapons and better at hipfiring in close range.
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Post by TheHawkNY on Dec 20, 2015 14:19:17 GMT -5
I know what you meant, you just don't want people running around with silenced shotguns, particularly the Argus.
I didn't say the KRM was that easy to get kills with (although it's not that hard). But it's for unskilled players, and really shouldn't be made any easier. When they feel like they need more range they can switch to the Argus.
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Post by -3055- on Dec 20, 2015 15:43:28 GMT -5
Also, the haymaker has a better ttk than the brecci after brecci's 2sk range. I honestly prefer haymaker cuz of the constant crazy flinch.
Also, shotguns should cause a very very short-lived movement speed decrease upon impact.
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Post by dunsparceflinch on Dec 20, 2015 15:50:07 GMT -5
People won't suddenly start running around with silenced shotguns any more than already run around with other silenced weapons (excluding silenced snipers). The Argus won't dominate with a silenced 1HK range of 10m because most of that 1HK range will require being perfectly accurate ADS'd.
I get that the KRM is easier to aim with than the argus, but the way it should work is the KRM is better from 0-300u and worse than the Argus from 300-700u. The Argus is the precision shotgun for getting ADS 1HKs while the KRM is the less precise shotgun for getting hipfire 1HKs. KRM should be about rewarding movement skill while the Argus is more about accuracy.
Brecci and Haymaker are supposed to dominate in close range (though not as much as the KRM) but trade a little bit of close range dominance for more short range usability.
Silencer is supposed to reduce range significantly (and -20% for all ranges on all shotguns + -10% all damage for the Argus would be significant on shotguns just like how -30% range is significant on most SMGs) in exchange for more of a surprise factor.
Side note, they definitely need to revert silencer on the KN-44 and Razorback back to -40% because otherwise silencer is too good on those guns.
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Post by -3055- on Dec 20, 2015 16:18:04 GMT -5
The Argus won't dominate with a silenced 1HK range of 10m because most of that 1HK range will require being perfectly accurate ADS'd. Brecci and Haymaker are supposed to dominate in close range (though not as much as the KRM) but trade a little bit of close range dominance for more short range usability. The Argus, like every other gun in this game, has insane aim assist. I could never use KSG from bo2 but i do incredibly well with the argus. It's not hard to hit enemies consistently enough to consider it a top tier cqc weapon. Brecci and haymaker trade a LOT of TTK for a LOT of reliability. Thats what it has in comparison to the krmit/angus.
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Post by nopington on Dec 20, 2015 18:52:22 GMT -5
Side note, they definitely need to revert silencer on the KN-44 and Razorback back to -40% because otherwise silencer is too good on those guns. But the KN-44 already has bad range and the Razorback has the worst TTK of any SMG due to its RoF, so I don't really see a problem with the silencer/range buff.
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Post by UrbaneVirtuoso on Dec 20, 2015 19:01:29 GMT -5
It's like you weirdos don't want shotgun buffs.
Goodness me.
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Post by TheHawkNY on Dec 20, 2015 20:02:47 GMT -5
It's like you weirdos don't want shotgun buffs.
Goodness me. I already destroy with them. I don't need my opponents figuring out they can wreck me with them.
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Post by dunsparceflinch on Dec 20, 2015 20:50:29 GMT -5
Side note, they definitely need to revert silencer on the KN-44 and Razorback back to -40% because otherwise silencer is too good on those guns. But the KN-44 already has bad range and the Razorback has the worst TTK of any SMG due to its RoF, so I don't really see a problem with the silencer/range buff. The Kn-44's strength was never just its 3HK range, but a combination of its 3HK range, it's accuracy, it's fire rate, and it's long range 4HK. Silencer only affects its 3HK range, so of course making it only a 30% reduction isn't enough. Likewise the Razorback's strengths are its 4HK range, its 5HK range (which is now basically infinite even with a suppressor), and it's accuracy, so 40% made more sense, especially when you realize it's max damage range with a suppressor is further than the max damage range of AR or LMG suppressed.
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Post by illram on Dec 21, 2015 0:53:22 GMT -5
Generally, they're playing "guess which corner I'm in", but sometimes they're just laying in random places. You're not understanding the shotgun balance correctly. The KRM and Haymaker are designed for bad players, the Argus and Brecci for good players. The KRM can't be buffed significantly, because if they're just handing out free kills to garbage players, and it's statistically as good as the guns designed for good players, everyone will use it and it will become annoying (see the R870 for reference). The Haymaker can't be buffed to a 2 hit kill because, you know, Gung Ho plus a full auto shotgun that works really well is a recipe for disaster. The Brecci is a beast and doesn't need a buff. You're also missing some factors. The benefits of staying off the map with a Shotgun are greater than with other classes. Knowing the exact position of someone with a shotgun is a much bigger advantage than the position of someone with an AR. Another factor you haven't mentioned is the opportunity cost. ARs, LMGs, and SMGs all have a plethora of worthwhile attachments. Shotguns really don't have many worthwhile attachments to choose from, and so making suppressor really good would make it essentially the default to use, which seems to be the complete opposite of the changes they made to suppressor in BO3. I hate to say it - I think they may have done shotguns right in BO3. Making suppressor good on them would break that. All the shotguns are viable. All require "skill" to get good scores with. If you go tear it up with a KRM you are not a "bad" player as opposed to if you do so with an Argus. Or the Haymaker vs. the Brecci. I think it is more productive to discuss in terms of difficulty to win a gun fight with. Personally, I think the Brecci is the "easiest" shotgun to dominate with. The KRM is the hardest as it is not as consistent a 1 shot kill as the Argus (as long as you ADS with the Argus). So if I had to do some sort of difficulty chart I'd orient it that way. Hardest to kill with--->easiest to kill with.
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pachiderm
True Bro
Chewing some serious leaves
Posts: 647
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Post by pachiderm on Dec 21, 2015 8:59:24 GMT -5
First off what the do mean by "do it like complete a holes"? Second let me put it this way: - Snipers are the most long range of weapons, but are completely useless closer than mid range, so logically you reduce their long range dominance with a suppressor. - LMGs are the second most long range weapon and are kinda usable in close range and somewhat usable in short range, so logically you reduce their long range and mid range viability with a suppressor, which would be best achieved with an 85% range reduction. - ARs are viable in all ranges, but best at mid range, so logically you reduce their mid range and short range viability, which would be best achieved with a 65% range reduction. - SMGs are viable in all ranges closer than long range, but best at short range and close range, so logically you reduce their mid range and short range viability, which can best be achieved with a 30% reduction. - Shotguns are only viable in close range and short range, so logically you reduce just short range viability with suppressor, which can best be achieved with just a 20% reduction to all ranges (and a damage reduction to the Argus so that the Argus gets signicant 1HK range reduction). I get that the new movement mechanics of this game favor shotguns for the most part and shotguns are now more consistent than previous CoDs with their new damage systems, but the KRM still needs more 1HK range and the Haymaker and Brecci need more close range damage. And suppressor is just not balanced well on most shotguns. Yes, I know that suppressor gives fairly big penalties for other weapon classes, but X% is going to have the most affect on a shotgun, then SMGs will be affected more than ARs, and then ARs will be affected more than LMGs. (Snipers are different because of their complete uselessness at close range and short range.) Generally, they're playing "guess which corner I'm in", but sometimes they're just laying in random places. You're not understanding the shotgun balance correctly. The KRM and Haymaker are designed for bad players, the Argus and Brecci for good players. The KRM can't be buffed significantly, because if they're just handing out free kills to garbage players, and it's statistically as good as the guns designed for good players, everyone will use it and it will become annoying (see the R870 for reference). The Haymaker can't be buffed to a 2 hit kill because, you know, Gung Ho plus a full auto shotgun that works really well is a recipe for disaster. The Brecci is a beast and doesn't need a buff. You're also missing some factors. The benefits of staying off the map with a Shotgun are greater than with other classes. Knowing the exact position of someone with a shotgun is a much bigger advantage than the position of someone with an AR. Another factor you haven't mentioned is the opportunity cost. ARs, LMGs, and SMGs all have a plethora of worthwhile attachments. Shotguns really don't have many worthwhile attachments to choose from, and so making suppressor really good would make it essentially the default to use, which seems to be the complete opposite of the changes they made to suppressor in BO3. I hate to say it - I think they may have done shotguns right in BO3. Making suppressor good on them would break that. I love shotguns and shotgunning in COD, but I have to agree with Hawk here. Attempting to dislodge a dude who is tactical loitering with awareness and a Brecci is hard enough as it is, he doesn't need a free suppressor to make him even harder to locate.
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Post by LeGitBeeSting on Dec 21, 2015 10:39:28 GMT -5
How is dislodging someone with a Brecci any harder than dislodging someone with an SMG that has almost half the TTK of the Brecci? If anything it's easier because his gun has a shit TTK.
Edito: Also all shotguns in BLOPS3 are sorta designed from the ground up with the new flat DMG mechanic to be for scrubs who can't aim(Bar the 1887). That's why people hate shotgunners so much despite their lack of any statistical advantage.
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Post by dunsparceflinch on Dec 21, 2015 13:49:24 GMT -5
The reason so many people hate shotguns is because a large chunk of the COloD community is made up of SMG/AR users who don't seem to remember the appropriate phrase for those two classes is "Jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none". I've even had arguments with competitive players on Twitter who think tgat an AR is supposed to beat an LMG at long range. Someone like that isn't going to accept the fact that shotguns should easily beat their AR or SMG in close range.
A camper's annoyance factor doesn't change much depending on the weapon. 9 times out of 10 if a camper got you with one gun they would have got you with any other gun. For example that guy with awareness and a hypothetical silenced Brecci with only a 20% range reduction would be just as annoying as a guy with a silenced HVK.
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Post by TheHawkNY on Dec 21, 2015 16:10:27 GMT -5
The reason so many people hate shotguns is because a large chunk of the COloD community is made up of SMG/AR users who don't seem to remember the appropriate phrase for those two classes is "Jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none". No. People hate shotguns because they bring instant death at close range. People hate shotguns because they see themselves getting mowed down by the shotgun user, but are not aware of the times that the reason they killed the shotgun user was because they were out of range to even fire, or because they were shot in the back while fleeing, etc. But most of all, people hate shotgun users because an enemy using a shotgun forces you to either change how you play/where you go, or accept that you are going to suffer deaths to them.
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Post by LeGitBeeSting on Dec 21, 2015 16:15:10 GMT -5
People hate shotguns because they bring instant death at close range. Well not the Haymaker/Brecci. Worst TTKs in game along with the Razorback.
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