BO3 Weapons Change Log

[fhelps]

Apr 22, 2016 9:25:59 GMT -5 dpkaufman said:

Apr 22, 2016 9:17:00 GMT -5 wat7 said:

prnt.sc/avgfs3
i guess they meant to increase the 4 hit kill range while nerfing its Touch Football potential but they messed up on the damage numbers lol

Not sure if the Kuda deserves that nerf for normal modes when the VMP stays unchanged.
What's weird is that i've played with the Vesper a bit yesterday and it actually felt like it had a lowered recoil

Right - although still seems crazy that a group of developers is unable to release accurate patch notes. And yeah, I feel like the Vesper's recoil isn't quite as crazy as it was, but maybe it's entirely in my head.

I'm almost sure that the Vesper recoil was changed, at least on PS4, I was able to kill guys that were on head-glitches again, something that I wasn't able to do after it's ridiculous nerf. Maybe the PC patch had some differences, since Vesper on PC > Vesper on consoles

[nopington]

I've been talking to people on the Steam discussions who have said that they definitely feel like the Vesper has less recoil now. I almost never used it before the patch though, so I can't say myself.

EDIT: I picked one up off the ground that had no attachments and got my first Nuclear medal with it. Good enough for me.

[haoz]

Looks like the Kuda was hit hard. It's a punishment to Kuda suppressor users too.

Now with the SMGs you have to choose between best damage/accuracy (Kuda, VMP) and better handling (the other SMGs)

The changes to the HVK and ICR don't help if you've been using grip with them.

Maybe the boa3 is good now. Combined with grip makes the overall effect almost like AW grip.

[JustABitAgroed]

Curious. A lot of people are reporting that the Vesper has lowered recoil. This could of course just be placebo/confirmation bias and I certainly don't underestimate just how much sway such things have, especially when few people have even used the weapon for a considerable amount of time post-patch. But, the only thing that was supposed to be changed was the recoil control values on the weapon. Yet most people I've seen have said that the recoil feels lower overall. Anecdotally, just from some of the gameplay I've seen (I haven't had the chance to try out the weapon in-game yet), the recoil didn't appear to be any lesser. Further, what reason would Treyarch have for making this buff console-only? It's not like the weapon doesn't suck on PC too. And then there's the matter of the Razorback. Directly lying about a buff? That seems a little irregular, even for CoD devs.

[PSIII]

Remember, these are the guys that handled the MP40 in WaW.

[banana]

tell drift0r

or should i make a $waggy reddit post
edit: https://www.reddit.com/r/blackops3/comments/4g1y0o/treyarch_messed_up_the_recent_patch_game_code/

[KenDirson]

Can confirm, Vesper definitely feels like it has lower recoil on PS4.

[vcarnage]

Gorgons damage was increased from 50 to 59 to penetrate light cover.
So, does that mean fmj actually increases damage?

[banana]

Apr 23, 2016 8:50:34 GMT -5 vcarnage said:

Gorgons damage was increased from 50 to 59 to penetrate light cover.
So, does that mean fmj actually increases damage?

no, fmj is a 2x boost to the penetrated damage. but the boost can't be higher than the gun's base damage

[JustABitAgroed]

Apr 23, 2016 9:25:33 GMT -5 banana said:

Apr 23, 2016 8:50:34 GMT -5 vcarnage said:

Gorgons damage was increased from 50 to 59 to penetrate light cover.
So, does that mean fmj actually increases damage?

no, fmj is a 2x boost to the penetrated damage. but the boost can't be higher than the gun's base damage

It can't be equal either, can it?

[kylet357]

Apr 23, 2016 11:42:37 GMT -5 JustABitAgroed said:

Apr 23, 2016 9:25:33 GMT -5 banana said:

no, fmj is a 2x boost to the penetrated damage. but the boost can't be higher than the gun's base damage

It can't be equal either, can it?

IIRC, FMJ/related penetration perks increase the damage by double of what it is after penetration, but only up to 0.95 of the base damage.

[I Am Hollywood5]

They've already done PC-specific weapon tuning, so I think it's safe to assume that they reduced Vesper recoil only on consoles and left it alone on PC since recoil is considerably easier to control with a mouse. (edit: just realized patch notes say "ability to control recoil" which is that goofy new mechanic that we don't have data on)

I simply cannot wrap my head around Treyarch's ever-persistent hatred for the Kuda. What ever made that gun so sinfully "overpowered"? It's always been so mediocre and now it's just dog poop. Whatever, I always passed up that gun for the better SMGs anyway. (edit 2: I now see they simply cut the 30 dmg range to nerf the hxc 1HK range instead of giving it a 29 dmg range like any competent dev would. Either that, or they wanted to nerf both HC and core Kuda, or they just don't give a fuck)

I honestly haven't paid much attention to BO3 for the past couple months, what did the laser do to the Kuda before? Was it better or worse than laser on other SMGs?

[JustABitAgroed]

Apr 23, 2016 14:39:18 GMT -5 I Am Hollywood5 said:

They've already done PC-specific weapon tuning, so I think it's safe to assume that they reduced Vesper recoil only on consoles and left it alone on PC since recoil is considerably easier to control with a mouse. (edit: just realized patch notes say "ability to control recoil" which is that goofy new mechanic that we don't have data on)

I simply cannot wrap my head around Treyarch's ever-persistent hatred for the Kuda. What ever made that gun so sinfully "overpowered"? It's always been so mediocre and now it's just dog poop. Whatever, I always passed up that gun for the better SMGs anyway. (edit 2: I now see they simply cut the 30 dmg range to nerf the hxc 1HK range instead of giving it a 29 dmg range like any competent dev would. Either that, or they wanted to nerf both HC and core Kuda, or they just don't give a fuck)

I honestly haven't paid much attention to BO3 for the past couple months, what did the laser do to the Kuda before? Was it better or worse than laser on other SMGs?

I'd argue that with recoil like that, it would be much better to have a controller with aim assist than a mouse without. Aside from aim assist, there's no controlling, well, that. Even with a mouse. And we do have data on that mechanic. Here's the thread: denkirson.proboards.com/thread/8175/recoil-control-mechanic-black-ops

The Laser on the Kuda used to do .475x along with on the Razorback and HG-40. Compared to Laser on the other SMGs which used to be .75x.

[Usagi]

Apr 23, 2016 11:56:04 GMT -5 kylet357 said:

Apr 23, 2016 11:42:37 GMT -5 JustABitAgroed said:

It can't be equal either, can it?

IIRC, FMJ/related penetration perks increase the damage by double of what it is after penetration, but only up to 0.95 of the base damage.

It was base damage minus 1.

[JustABitAgroed]

Apr 23, 2016 22:45:25 GMT -5 Usagi said:

Apr 23, 2016 11:56:04 GMT -5 kylet357 said:

IIRC, FMJ/related penetration perks increase the damage by double of what it is after penetration, but only up to 0.95 of the base damage.

It was base damage minus 1.

Thought so. Thank you for the clarification.

[asasa]

Apr 21, 2016 19:44:39 GMT -5 banana said:

that would be op

F u no it wouldn't

[Marvel4]

Apr 22, 2016 19:28:10 GMT -5 JustABitAgroed said:

But, the only thing that was supposed to be changed was the recoil control values on the weapon.

I didn't include that in the list, but kickAlignedInputScalar was changed from 1.05 to 1.

[mannon]

Apr 23, 2016 22:45:25 GMT -5 Usagi said:

Apr 23, 2016 11:56:04 GMT -5 kylet357 said:

IIRC, FMJ/related penetration perks increase the damage by double of what it is after penetration, but only up to 0.95 of the base damage.

It was base damage minus 1.

I can't remember all the weirdness, but it seems like some things were rounded up and some down, but I do recall that any penetration at all would always cost you some damage even if you were just shooting through glass. So you always lose at least 1 point. Wow... brings back memories of testing the FAL on Highrise. heh

[Usagi]

Apr 25, 2016 10:36:33 GMT -5 mannon said:

Apr 23, 2016 22:45:25 GMT -5 Usagi said:

It was base damage minus 1.

I can't remember all the weirdness, but it seems like some things were rounded up and some down, but I do recall that any penetration at all would always cost you some damage even if you were just shooting through glass. So you always lose at least 1 point. Wow... brings back memories of testing the FAL on Highrise. heh

Assuming they haven't changed the formula, damage after penetration can never exceed base damage minus 1. Damage is also always rounded down to the nearest integer.

[mannon]

In MW2 there were some weird cases, (I think to do with penetration) where damage could actually be rounded up. Pretty edge case, though and I'd have to dig through very old posts to find out exactly what the conditions were. Very very long time ago...

[blastard]

I'm puzzled by the note in the Attachment tab in the Weapons Stats. It reads: "Grip overrides ADS Recoil Reduction of the Recon and Varix 3". Does this mean that you if you slap a Grip on a weapon that has a Recon or Varix, you receive the ADS Recoil Reduction of 0.075 and not the new buffed number of 0.15? If so, I've never seen an attachment only make a weapon worse.

Also, since the Thermal sight is excluded from this, does that mean that the ADS Recoil Reduction is cumulative with a Grip for this sight: .225?

[JustABitAgroed]

Apr 26, 2016 12:01:01 GMT -5 blastard said:

I'm puzzled by the note in the Attachment tab in the Weapons Stats. It reads: "Grip overrides ADS Recoil Reduction of the Recon and Varix 3". Does this mean that you if you slap a Grip on a weapon that has a Recon or Varix, you receive the ADS Recoil Reduction of 0.075 and not the new buffed number of 0.15? If so, I've never seen an attachment only make a weapon worse.

Also, since the Thermal sight is excluded from this, does that mean that the ADS Recoil Reduction is cumulative with a Grip for this sight: .225?

The Grip conflicts with the Varix, Recon, and Thermal. In the cases of the Varix and Recon, the Grip takes precedence over the optics, so instead of the .15 that the optics would usually give it, that figure is overridden and you'll be left with just the .075 of the Grip. In the case of the Thermal, it takes precedence over the Grip, so instead of the two figures being added together, you still get the .15 of the Thermal, but the Grip is rendered completely useless. As far as an attachment making something strictly worse, this wasn't intentional. Treyarch bungled something. And just to be clear, none of this affects the bonuses to Centerspeed in any way, so the BOA and Grip won't conflict with each other, and even if you equip the Varix or Recon with the Grip, you'll still get the 10% boost to Centerspeed, along with the now-lessened ADS Recoil Reduction figure, and with the Thermal and Grip equipped, you'll still receive the 10% Centerspeed boost of the Thermal, along with its .15, but the Grip will of course remain ineffectual.

[JustABitAgroed]

Apr 24, 2016 18:35:52 GMT -5 Marvel4 said:

Apr 22, 2016 19:28:10 GMT -5 JustABitAgroed said:

But, the only thing that was supposed to be changed was the recoil control values on the weapon.

I didn't include that in the list, but kickAlignedInputScalar was changed from 1.05 to 1.

Thank you for clarifying that. Quick question though, wouldn't that act as a nerf? When we're talking about fighting recoil, the Aligned Scalar would only matter when concerning Gunkick. So by decreasing that Scalar, you've just decreased the effectiveness of fighting the Gunkick with no relevant effect on the ability to fight Viewkick, correct? Or am I misunderstanding the mechanic's practical operation?

[Lexapro]

I thought Aligned meant that it would increase recoil if you fought it in the wrong direction ie. you push your stick in the same direction as the kick. Reducing it should meant that you won't get any additional recoil if you compensate incorrectly (or more likely, if you are simply aiming at a jumping enemy).

[JustABitAgroed]

I thought Aligned meant that it would increase recoil if you fought it in the wrong direction ie. you push your stick in the same direction as the kick. Reducing it should meant that you won't get any additional recoil if you compensate incorrectly (or more likely, if you are simply aiming at a jumping enemy).

It would for viewkick. But for gunkick the pitch coordinates are reversed so the mechanic affects it accordingly. In all fairness, I didn't think about the implications of this change while tracking someone during their jump. But that isn't as common a scenario as ground to ground or air (in your case) to ground, especially in pubs. I would think the effect on gunkick would be more important.

[mannon]

I thought gunkick was very small compared to viewkick?

Also here's a question, does gunkick misalign your sights or merely move them around on the screen? IRL of course your gun kicking around would not just move it around in your view but also throw off the alignment with your point of view, but CoD being CoD this is not a simulation. Still, it would matter how gunkick is actually animated on the gun models and how that is mapped to the actual coordinate where your hitscans will take place.

I believe in at least some of the past games your actual aimpoint was more or less stuck to the tip of your iron sight, even if the weapon model appeared to rotate out of alignment, but I may be thinking of other games, and I'm not sure how they've done it in BO3. I think with the sight attachments it's probably less of a concern, but... is it? I don't really know.

[haoz]

I thought by definition gunkick is the movement of the aim point away from the center of the screen. Sights bouncing around a center point is just visual recon.

I haven't noticed much gunkick in this game, so reducing kickAlignedInputScalar to 1 is a minor buff.

[kylet357]

Apr 28, 2016 11:23:01 GMT -5 haoz said:

I thought by definition gunkick is the movement of the aim point away from the center of the screen. Sights bouncing around a center point is just visual recon.

[probaddie]

Apr 28, 2016 11:00:42 GMT -5 mannon said:

I thought gunkick was very small compared to viewkick?

Also here's a question, does gunkick misalign your sights or merely move them around on the screen? IRL of course your gun kicking around would not just move it around in your view but also throw off the alignment with your point of view, but CoD being CoD this is not a simulation. Still, it would matter how gunkick is actually animated on the gun models and how that is mapped to the actual coordinate where your hitscans will take place.

I believe in at least some of the past games your actual aimpoint was more or less stuck to the tip of your iron sight, even if the weapon model appeared to rotate out of alignment, but I may be thinking of other games, and I'm not sure how they've done it in BO3. I think with the sight attachments it's probably less of a concern, but... is it? I don't really know.

I think you're confusing two separate mechanics here. Sway (just "sway", not "idle sway") is what causes your viewmodel to become misaligned with respect to the direction the viewmodel is pointing. It is activated when the player is turning. This misalignment does not affect the player's point of aim, the actual act of rotation notwithstanding. An example:





Alternately, GunKick causes the entire viewmodel to rotate, with the viewport itself as the center of rotation. Ignoring any movement caused by the firing animation, GunKick does not cause the gun's sights to misalign:





The reason GunKick is generally not as important as ViewKick is not because of some innate property of GunKick but rather the fact that the relevant staistics that govern GunKick - min/max yaw/pitch velocities, the acceleration and drag coefficients, etc. - are typically set so that the movement of the viewmodel is heavily impeded - sometimes to the point of imperceptibility.

[mannon]

I just wasn't sure if the affect of gunkick was to strait up rotate the viewmodel around the camera's origin or if they applied some animation to it like sway that would potentially throw your sights off... (Although if memory serves sway as demonstrated above, is actually purely visual and your front post still points right at the spot where your shots will hitscan regardless of what the rear sight is doing.)

I just thought I'd ask to be sure.