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Post by farixis on Dec 7, 2015 11:58:23 GMT -5
I like this Xclusive Ace guy, he has very informative videos. If fast hands does not let you ads faster, then gung ho is just flat out better in that regard. I think I'll try dropping awareness for this perk and using another perk 2. I agree that this guys has cool videos, however he got this one wrong. quickdraw + fast hands = faster sprint to ads. sprint to ads takes the slower of the 2 so not having both means you're not getting as big of an advantage Is this tested somewhere? I thought this would be a simple question, but I'm seeing conflicting answers about how this works from every direction. Even 'definitive' video proof appears to be wrong. |
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Post by volgon on Dec 7, 2015 13:29:24 GMT -5
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banana
True Banana
Zoro > Law
Posts: 1,577
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Post by banana on Dec 7, 2015 17:38:11 GMT -5
It works like this:
1. check ads time
2. check sprintout time
3. check which one takes longer
4. use the longer time
So basically assume the Pharo is 200 ms for both but then he uses fast hands (let's say cuts it in half)
1. 200 ms
2. 100 ms
3. 200>100
4. use 200 for sprint-to-ads
Let's say he only uses quickdraw, (let's say it cuts it in half)
1. 100 ms
2. 200 ms
3. 100<200
4. use 200
Both:
1. 100 ms
2. 100 ms
3. 100=100
4. use 100
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Post by seanbateman on Dec 7, 2015 20:48:24 GMT -5
Or Awareness, orlsx317o; the soundwhoring is so redonkulous in this game it's nigh-cheating. Oh that too. It's been inconsistent for me so far though; too many instances of being "snuck" up on by someone running at full sprint >_< I used it as it was the best early unlock for tier 3 but now I'm sitting at level 53, I've found DS + Engineer to be the best combo for me. Strange how I never needed Dead Silence in BO2 but I missed it until I unlocked it in BO3! Not true at all. The sound design in this game is so awful, there's no point on running awareness. People not running dead silence can sneak up on you all the time because the sound always cuts out in this game. |
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Post by wantonRULE on Dec 8, 2015 12:08:56 GMT -5
Ok lots of good information. I currently use QuickDraw on all my weapons and I've locked fast hands down in my 2nd tier for all classes. From what banana is saying, it's good to have the two to take advantage of the sprint out time correct? If I use QuickDraw and gung-ho, is that combination better? Same? Worse? Slot 3 is locked on tacmask atm. I'd like to run nades/c4 with scavenger and spam lol
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Post by imrlybord7 on Dec 8, 2015 13:10:45 GMT -5
Gung-Ho is definitely better if you're close enough for instant shots to hit before you finish ADSing, but for someone a bit further away I'm not sure how Gung-Ho compares to Fast Hands.
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Post by volgon on Dec 8, 2015 13:32:43 GMT -5
Summary
Gung-Ho: good
Fast Hands: bad
Fast Hands with Quickdraw: best
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Post by imrlybord7 on Dec 8, 2015 14:02:31 GMT -5
Summary Gung-Ho: good Fast Hands: bad Fast Hands with Quickdraw: best So Gung-Ho plus Quickdraw doesn't beat Fast Hands plus Quickdraw? |
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Post by volgon on Dec 8, 2015 14:10:59 GMT -5
Summary Gung-Ho: good Fast Hands: bad Fast Hands with Quickdraw: best So Gung-Ho plus Quickdraw doesn't beat Fast Hands plus Quickdraw? Whatever Gung-Ho does to sprint out time, it doesn't function when you ADS from sprint, so you won't get Quickdraw's full benefit. In the one game I played with Gung Ho yesterday to mess with it, I ADS'd from sprint noticably slower with Gung-Ho than I would have with Fast Hands (Vesper with Quickdraw was my weapon). If all you do is run around hip firing, with a shotgun or maybe a class only for Exodus for example, then Gung-Ho is great. However as soon as you add aiming from sprint to the equation, IMO Fast Hands becomes better because it's more versatile. Gung-Ho is better for just hip fire, but Fast Hands gives you better hip fire than default plus the sprint out bonus. |
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Post by thexclusiveace on Dec 8, 2015 14:23:53 GMT -5
I like this Xclusive Ace guy, he has very informative videos. If fast hands does not let you ads faster, then gung ho is just flat out better in that regard. I think I'll try dropping awareness for this perk and using another perk 2. I agree that this guys has cool videos, however he got this one wrong. quickdraw + fast hands = faster sprint to ads. sprint to ads takes the slower of the 2 so not having both means you're not getting as big of an advantage I was linked to this thread by a fan of mine and you're totally right, I wasn't thorough enough with this one and I should have tested this with Quickdraw. I still stand behind the numbers from my testing but had I tested with quickdraw, my conclusion would've been a bit different. I will be revisiting this in a video shortly and I appreciate you Bros for clearing this up! |
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Post by wantonRULE on Dec 8, 2015 16:22:24 GMT -5
So Gung-Ho plus Quickdraw doesn't beat Fast Hands plus Quickdraw? Whatever Gung-Ho does to sprint out time, it doesn't function when you ADS from sprint, so you won't get Quickdraw's full benefit. In the one game I played with Gung Ho yesterday to mess with it, I ADS'd from sprint noticably slower with Gung-Ho than I would have with Fast Hands (Vesper with Quickdraw was my weapon). If all you do is run around hip firing, with a shotgun or maybe a class only for Exodus for example, then Gung-Ho is great. However as soon as you add aiming from sprint to the equation, IMO Fast Hands becomes better because it's more versatile. Gung-Ho is better for just hip fire, but Fast Hands gives you better hip fire than default plus the sprint out bonus. Thank you very much. That cleared it up. I think I'll stick to fast-hands and QuickDraw then. |
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Post by youngstuna on Dec 8, 2015 16:26:15 GMT -5
I agree that this guys has cool videos, however he got this one wrong. quickdraw + fast hands = faster sprint to ads. sprint to ads takes the slower of the 2 so not having both means you're not getting as big of an advantage I was linked to this thread by a fan of mine and you're totally right, I wasn't thorough enough with this one and I should have tested this with Quickdraw. I still stand behind the numbers from my testing but had I tested with quickdraw, my conclusion would've been a bit different. I will be revisiting this in a video shortly and I appreciate you Bros for clearing this up! In my experience, both testing and playing in multiplayer, I noticed faster ADS recovery time with fast hands even without quickdraw. I had more success playing aggressively with just fast hands as opposed to just quickdraw. Having both at the same is obviously the best overall way, but fast hands works without it and is my crutch perk. |
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Post by volgon on Dec 8, 2015 16:54:01 GMT -5
I was linked to this thread by a fan of mine and you're totally right, I wasn't thorough enough with this one and I should have tested this with Quickdraw. I still stand behind the numbers from my testing but had I tested with quickdraw, my conclusion would've been a bit different. I will be revisiting this in a video shortly and I appreciate you Bros for clearing this up! In my experience, both testing and playing in multiplayer, I noticed faster ADS recovery time with fast hands even without quickdraw. I had more success playing aggressively with just fast hands as opposed to just quickdraw. Having both at the same is obviously the best overall way, but fast hands works without it and is my crutch perk. You won't get faster ADS with Fast Hands and no Quickdraw, though. If your Sprint Out time is .1 seconds but your ADS time is .2 sec (meaning an SMG with Fast Hands but no Quickdraw), you're still going to ADS in .2 seconds from sprint. That won't ever change unless you run Quickdraw, the only difference now is that your gun can hip fire (or fire during the transition to ADS, where your accuracy is identical to hip firing) in .1 seconds. Running just Quickdraw is definitely the worst option, since it only benefits you while walking, but running just Fast Hands only helps you to hip fire faster (though that 50% reduction is significant). |
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Post by youngstuna on Dec 8, 2015 17:24:55 GMT -5
In my experience, both testing and playing in multiplayer, I noticed faster ADS recovery time with fast hands even without quickdraw. I had more success playing aggressively with just fast hands as opposed to just quickdraw. Having both at the same is obviously the best overall way, but fast hands works without it and is my crutch perk. You won't get faster ADS with Fast Hands and no Quickdraw, though. If your Sprint Out time is .1 seconds but your ADS time is .2 sec (meaning an SMG with Fast Hands but no Quickdraw), you're still going to ADS in .2 seconds from sprint. That won't ever change unless you run Quickdraw, the only difference now is that your gun can hip fire (or fire during the transition to ADS, where your accuracy is identical to hip firing) in .1 seconds. Running just Quickdraw is definitely the worst option, since it only benefits you while walking, but running just Fast Hands only helps you to hip fire faster (though that 50% reduction is significant). Fast hands reduces the sprintout time, no? That would mean transitioning from sprinting to ADS'ing faster. This is how it feels in my experience during games and when I messed around with it in a private lobby on my own. Rushing felt much smoother with fast hands without even firing any bullets. |
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JustABitAgroed
True Bro
Reasons to never go on GFAQs: 1. I'm considered an expert there. 2. It's GFAQs. I mean, come on man.
Posts: 345 
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Post by JustABitAgroed on Dec 8, 2015 17:30:51 GMT -5
You won't get faster ADS with Fast Hands and no Quickdraw, though. If your Sprint Out time is .1 seconds but your ADS time is .2 sec (meaning an SMG with Fast Hands but no Quickdraw), you're still going to ADS in .2 seconds from sprint. That won't ever change unless you run Quickdraw, the only difference now is that your gun can hip fire (or fire during the transition to ADS, where your accuracy is identical to hip firing) in .1 seconds. Running just Quickdraw is definitely the worst option, since it only benefits you while walking, but running just Fast Hands only helps you to hip fire faster (though that 50% reduction is significant). Fast hands reduces the sprintout time, no? That would mean transitioning from sprinting to ADS'ing faster. This is how it feels in my experience during games and when I messed around with it in a private lobby on my own. Rushing felt much smoother with fast hands without even firing any bullets. When you come out of a sprint to ADS, it takes a certain amount of time before you can fire (sprintout time) and then a certain amount of time to ADS. If your sprintout time is shorter than your ADS time, all you can do is shoot before you ADS and if your sprintout time is for some reason longer than the ADS time then you wouldn't be able to shoot even though you would already be fully ADS'd. So, take both and whichever value is longer, that's how much time it will take to go from a full sprint to when you can shoot while ADS'd. Hopefully that explains it sufficiently. |
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Post by volgon on Dec 8, 2015 17:42:10 GMT -5
Fast hands reduces the sprintout time, no? That would mean transitioning from sprinting to ADS'ing faster. This is how it feels in my experience during games and when I messed around with it in a private lobby on my own. Rushing felt much smoother with fast hands without even firing any bullets. When you come out of a sprint to ADS, it takes a certain amount of time before you can fire (sprintout time) and then a certain amount of time to ADS. If your sprintout time is shorter than your ADS time, all you can do is shoot before you ADS and if your sprintout time is for some reason longer than the ADS time then you wouldn't be able to shoot even though you would already be fully ADS'd. So, take both and whichever value is longer, that's how much time it will take to go from a full sprint to when you can shoot while ADS'd. Hopefully that explains it sufficiently. To clarify, if you ADS to cancel your sprint, the sprint out time and ADS time are not consecutive events, they occur simultaneously. That's why you select the mechanic with the longer value to determine when you have full ADS accuracy. |
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Post by Marvel4 on Dec 8, 2015 18:24:04 GMT -5
Most people make this way too confusing. The sprint out animation and the ADS animation are completely different things. When you ADS while sprinting, you just see a combination of both animations, because they happen at the same time. So, making one of them faster makes this combined animation look different. That doesn't matter, though, because you're changing different properties of a weapon.
Sprint out time: Time until you can shoot after sprinting
ADS time: Time until you're ADS and getting different accuracy
Gung-Ho shouldn't affect these in Black Ops III (in Advanced Warfare, it lets you shoot instantly while sprinting).
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Post by farixis on Dec 8, 2015 18:52:16 GMT -5
If Gung-Ho doesn't affect sprint out time, what delay is being used to determine how fast you can hipfire while sprinting with Gung-Ho?
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Post by youngstuna on Dec 8, 2015 19:13:24 GMT -5
Most people make this way too confusing. The sprint out animation and the ADS animation are completely different things. When you ADS while sprinting, you just see a combination of both animations, because they happen at the same time. So, making one of them faster makes this combined animation look different. That doesn't matter, though, because you're changing different properties of a weapon. Sprint out time: Time until you can shoot after sprinting ADS time: Time until you're ADS and getting different accuracy Gung-Ho shouldn't affect these in Black Ops III (in Advanced Warfare, it lets you shoot instantly while sprinting). Ah thanks, I get it now. The animation part is what bugged me out -- my instinct is not to shoot until it appears like I'm ADS when that's my intention. So the slower animation without fast hands delayed me just enough for me to lose gun battles. I still feel the perk is useful even without quickdraw, but I think using a laser sight helps too since it'll reduce the hipfire spread. |
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Post by RageHulkSmash on Dec 8, 2015 20:09:15 GMT -5
Gung-Ho shouldn't affect these in Black Ops III (in Advanced Warfare, it lets you shoot instantly while sprinting). Thanks Marvel4, that's all I wanted to know. That perk is trash if it doesn't reduce sprint out time. |
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Post by Marvel4 on Dec 9, 2015 11:24:23 GMT -5
Forget what I said about Gung-Ho. Even though the sprint out animation is the same, you can actually shoot almost instantly after sprinting. And the time until you can shoot while sprinting is also lower than the sprint out time.
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Post by dunsparceflinch on Dec 9, 2015 11:56:51 GMT -5
Forget what I said about Gung-Ho. Even though the sprint out animation is the same, you can actually shoot almost instantly after sprinting. And the time until you can shoot while sprinting is also lower than the sprint out time. Thank you very much for that Intel. That helps explain the supposed ADS glitch with Gung ho. |
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Lexapro
True Bro
PSN: Lexa_pro
Posts: 1,066
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Post by Lexapro on Dec 9, 2015 19:41:03 GMT -5
Forget what I said about Gung-Ho. Even though the sprint out animation is the same, you can actually shoot almost instantly after sprinting. And the time until you can shoot while sprinting is also lower than the sprint out time. So now I'm extra confused. If I ADS out of sprint with Gung-ho vs. ADS out of sprint with Fast-Hands, which will allow me to shoot faster? Which will allow me to shoot with ADS accuracy faster? Is it worth combining them? Is it worth using quickdraw with either or both? THE NUMBERS MASON, WHAT DO THEY MEAN!? |
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Post by RageHulkSmash on Dec 9, 2015 19:56:47 GMT -5
"Almost instantly" sounds faster than 50% reduced time lol.
This would probably only matter for smgs though. It seems like sprint out times are almost equal to ads times from the weapons we already know, so I assume that's the case for most weapons. Smgs are the only weapons that gain more than 50% benefit from QD. If fast hands does a flat 50% sprint out time reduction, the only tome sprint out time becomes the bottleneck is with QD SMGs.
Right?
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Post by hamburglar86 on Dec 10, 2015 12:24:24 GMT -5
I am also confused. I am a shotgun player who hipfires (basically) 100% of the time. I also sprint a lot. If I can only use fast hands or gung ho, which should I choose? And if I used both would I get a non-trivial (or any) advantage over using only the better of the two?
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JustABitAgroed
True Bro
Reasons to never go on GFAQs: 1. I'm considered an expert there. 2. It's GFAQs. I mean, come on man.
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Post by JustABitAgroed on Dec 10, 2015 14:21:53 GMT -5
I am also confused. I am a shotgun player who hipfires (basically) 100% of the time. I also sprint a lot. If I can only use fast hands or gung ho, which should I choose? And if I used both would I get a non-trivial (or any) advantage over using only the better of the two? If you almost never ADS then Gung-Ho would be the better of the two. |
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Post by noscreenname on Dec 10, 2015 16:22:09 GMT -5
Forget what I said about Gung-Ho. Even though the sprint out animation is the same, you can actually shoot almost instantly after sprinting. And the time until you can shoot while sprinting is also lower than the sprint out time. So now I'm extra confused. If I ADS out of sprint with Gung-ho vs. ADS out of sprint with Fast-Hands, which will allow me to shoot faster? Which will allow me to shoot with ADS accuracy faster? Is it worth combining them? Is it worth using quickdraw with either or both? THE NUMBERS MASON, WHAT DO THEY MEAN!? This plz Mahvel. |
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Post by fhelps on Dec 11, 2015 13:56:55 GMT -5
Most people make this way too confusing. The sprint out animation and the ADS animation are completely different things. When you ADS while sprinting, you just see a combination of both animations, because they happen at the same time. So, making one of them faster makes this combined animation look different. That doesn't matter, though, because you're changing different properties of a weapon. Sprint out time: Time until you can shoot after sprinting ADS time: Time until you're ADS and getting different accuracy Gung-Ho shouldn't affect these in Black Ops III (in Advanced Warfare, it lets you shoot instantly while sprinting). So, let's say that I have a 0.2s sprintout time animation and a 0.2s ADS time animation, and then I equip Fast Hands, that will make my sprintout time animation be 0.1s. Then I start do sprint and I see an enemy far away and I want to ADS and shoot him, so I press the ADS button. When exactly will I be able to shoot? After the 0.1s of the sprintout time animation or after the 0.2s that my gun will take to be fully ADS'd? As far as I understood from Marvel4 explanation I would be able to shoot after 0.1s, and if that's the case Fast Hands seems useless compared to Gung Ho. I mean, if Gung-Ho also makes me shoot *almost instantly* after sprinting then, if I'm in the same situation described above but with Gung-Ho, I would be able to shoot as fast as I would with Fast Hands, or even faster, considering that *almost instatly* can be better than the already-known 50% increase of Fast Hands. If that's really the case it's always better to run Gung-Ho instead of Fast Hands to shoot faster, since Gung-Ho also gives you the ability to shoot while sprinting. But I also saw in this topic people saying that when you have a different time for the sprintout animation and for the ADS animation you should take the longer to know when you'll be able to shoot ADS'ing after sprinting. And if that's right then Fast Hands still looks useless, since it don't affect the ADS time, just the sprintout, and would make me shoot only after 0.2s when I ADS from sprint. Actually if that's the case then both Fast Hands and Gung Ho would be useless when you go from sprint to ADS if you don't have Quickdraw equipped. They would only be useful for when you hipfire, and then Gung-Ho would again be the better option. So, I'm confused RN, but from what I understood so far Gung-Ho is defenitely looking better if I just want to shoot faster.. Does it all make sense? |
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Post by kirbyderby on Dec 11, 2015 16:42:20 GMT -5
gungho competes with awareness/dead silence so it's worse than fast hands by default
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Post by Marvel4 on Dec 11, 2015 16:46:27 GMT -5
If you want to shoot as soon as possible after sprinting, look at the sprint out time.
If you want ADS accuracy as soon as possible when aiming, look at the ADS time.
If you want both, the higher time is the limiting factor.
Of course Gung-Ho is better than Fast Hands, but you have to give up the best perks.
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