banana
True Banana
Zoro > Law
Posts: 1,577
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Post by banana on Nov 28, 2015 22:16:56 GMT -5
Because why not (Tier 1 isn't OP):
Tier 1 205 Brecci P-06
Tier 2 Pharo / Sheiva / Haymaker 48 Dredge XR-2 M8 / KN-44 / HVK / Peacekeeper VMP - Man-O-War / Weevil Kuda SVG-100 Drakon
Tier 3 Argus Dingo Locus - Razorwhack ICR-1 BRM / KRM RK5 LCAR-9
Tier 4 MR6 Gorgon
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Post by Pegasus Actual on Nov 28, 2015 23:14:38 GMT -5
Just curious, have you actually used all these weapons for more than 5 seconds?
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Post by dunsparceflinch on Nov 28, 2015 23:32:18 GMT -5
How is the Argus on the same tier as the drakon? Argus is a beast.
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Post by Macht on Nov 28, 2015 23:34:09 GMT -5
How is the Argus on the same tier as the drakon? Argus is a beast. So is the Drakon.
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banana
True Banana
Zoro > Law
Posts: 1,577
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Post by banana on Nov 28, 2015 23:35:00 GMT -5
Just curious, have you actually used all these weapons for more than 5 seconds? what do you think is wrong. keep in mind I made this in like 2 minutes
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Post by GodMars on Nov 28, 2015 23:35:26 GMT -5
How does the Sheiva even make the list?
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Post by Pegasus Actual on Nov 28, 2015 23:55:35 GMT -5
Just curious, have you actually used all these weapons for more than 5 seconds? keep in mind I made this in like 2 minutes I figured.
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Post by UrbaneVirtuoso on Nov 29, 2015 0:00:23 GMT -5
Combat Knife or bust. :3
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Post by illram on Nov 29, 2015 0:17:48 GMT -5
So after golding the KRM post-buff, it's not as terribad as it was before. With laser sight and long barrel if you are an accurate hip fire shooter it is actually not bad. For OSK from the hip it's sort of the only game in town. I mean, even naked it is serviceable. I almost prefer it to the Argus, which requires ADS for consistent OSK's, which is a negative in my book. (But some of the long shots you can get with the Argus feel pretty good).
Anyways if I had to make a list, it would be hard to do because I like a lot of the weapons for different reasons. I'd also probably organize it by gun type, since each gun type has it's positives and negatives, at least until Vonderderp kills the gun variety with more nerfs.
Tier 1: AR: Man O' War/HVK SMG: Pharo LMG: Dredge/Gorgon Shotgun: KRM/Argus (yep, I went there) Sniper: SVG-100
Tier 2: AR: XR-2, M8, KN-44 LMG: Dingo/BRM SMG: VMP/Vesper/Razorback/Kuda Shotgun: Brecci Sniper: Locus
Tier 3: AR: ICR SMG: Weevil Shotgun: Haymaker Sniper: Drakon
Tier 4: AR: Sheiva
Honestly, all of the guns are usable to me. I did not yet dive heavily into the available stats too much, this list is mostly based on what feels better to me so far. Yes, even the Sheiva is usable by me and occasionally I run it for fun, although for its niche it is outclassed by the Drakon. They should do something to the Sheiva to make it more worthwhile. Increase it's rate of fire? Increase movement speed, ADS time, headshot multiplier... I don't know, something.
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Post by dunsparceflinch on Nov 29, 2015 0:31:45 GMT -5
Making the Shieva have a 250ms ADS time instead of the current 300ms ADS time and making its fire cap 300RPM instead of the current ~250RPM would probably fix it.
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Post by Pegasus Actual on Nov 29, 2015 0:32:32 GMT -5
Tier 1: M8A7 Tier 2: whatever, the rest of the stuff i guess.
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Post by chillz on Nov 29, 2015 3:59:18 GMT -5
I have to say the Sheiva is my favourite gun in the game. Just shows how good a job of weapon balancing they have done. Nobody can agree on a list. Perfect.
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tooros
True Bro
Pony Stark
Posts: 1,306
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Post by tooros on Nov 29, 2015 6:28:43 GMT -5
Tier 1: M8A7 Tier 2: whatever, the rest of the stuff i guess. That made me lol. (for real)
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Post by moyer on Nov 29, 2015 10:32:51 GMT -5
Really depends if you're on pc or console. The other huge variable is how willing/able you are to change your play style to fit the gun, and what map and game type you're on.
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banana
True Banana
Zoro > Law
Posts: 1,577
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Post by banana on Nov 29, 2015 10:41:03 GMT -5
How does the Sheiva even make the list? every gun besides launchers and stuff like that are in the list. illram imo making a list like that is bad because it implies that the SVG has the same viability as the others chillz its ttk is worse than the MoW's and it's harder to use because it's semi auto
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Post by illram on Nov 29, 2015 10:45:17 GMT -5
How does the Sheiva even make the list? every gun besides launchers and stuff like that are in the list. illram imo making a list like that is bad because it implies that the SVG has the same viability as the others chillz its ttk is worse than the MoW's and it's harder to use because it's semi auto I look at gun use more as a preference thing. "What do I feel like doing on this map?" If I feel like sniping, SVG is the first choice. Etc. etc.
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banana
True Banana
Zoro > Law
Posts: 1,577
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Post by banana on Nov 29, 2015 10:50:28 GMT -5
Yeah but your expected k/d and spm will be lower than your tier 2 and probably tier 3
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Post by illram on Nov 29, 2015 11:16:27 GMT -5
Not at all. Usually my K/D when I snipe is higher because I play way more carefully. If I snipe I'll usually only do it in TDM, maybe Kill Confirmed. Still figuring out how all the maps play when I snipe so I don't have it dialed in in this game yet but a good sniping match will usually be way better than a good match with any other gun, purely in terms of K/D. Sniping is how I get my 15-3, 10-1 type matches. In TDM that's pretty helpful for the team. KC a little less since I am rarely running out and grabbing my tags, I need some runner teammates. In any other gametype, me laying around with a sniper in a hidey hole is pretty useless so I don't do it.
SPM probably is lower, sure. But depending on the gametype, SPM is not really be all, end all.
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Post by moyer on Nov 29, 2015 11:31:32 GMT -5
Really depends if you're on pc or console. The other huge variable is how willing/able you are to change your play style to fit the gun, and what map and game type you're on. I should also add that it even depends on how your opponents react to your strategy. On some maps, i like to go defend a close quarters area with an Argus. If the enemy is dumb enough to repeatedly rush me with ARs (and many times they are) then i likely have the best gun in the game. I've seen others do similar things sniping. Those guns are very strong in very specific ranges. If you can lure the enemy into repeatedly engaging with you at that range, then your gun is OP.
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Post by dunsparceflinch on Nov 29, 2015 11:37:33 GMT -5
How is the Argus on the same tier as the drakon? Argus is a beast. So is the Drakon. On PC sure. On console, not quite. The lack of aim assist on PC creates some weird discrepancies in balance. A mostly hipfire weapon like the haymaker goes from okay to beast on PC, snipers go from bad to great, and the thermal sight goes from meh to great. Hopefully Treyarch at some point decides to address this by: - reducing flinch on PC - increasing sway on the snipers but adding ADS aim assist to them on console - putting some aim assist back on thermal sight - buffing the haymaker after flinch is reduced on PC
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Post by moyer on Nov 29, 2015 12:18:34 GMT -5
I'd say the ICR and Razorback should be higher on the list, as well as the Argus and snipers if you can stay in their power range.
I know you're hung up on the low power of the ICR, but the low recoil has me outshooting every other gun in the game at medium/long range except the M8 and maybe the XR2.
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Post by dunsparceflinch on Nov 29, 2015 12:45:55 GMT -5
The problem isn't just the low power of the ICR, but let's compare it this way to the HVK:
HVK: Better hipfire spread, Faster fire rate, More 1HK range in HC, Faster sprintout time
ICR: More ADS accuracy
The ICR needs a very short higher damage range (like 5m) in which it does 33 or 35 damage, an extended 30 damage range (from 21m to 30m), and an extended 29 damage range (from 42m to 50m). It's meant for long range, so it should have more 4HK range to justify using it at long range.
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Post by chillz on Nov 29, 2015 14:45:07 GMT -5
chillz its ttk is worse than the MoW's and it's harder to use because it's semi auto[/quote] I like the one shot kill potential of the Sheiva with high calibre and long barrel. I also run rapid fire so does that help beat the Man O War ttk? Also I seem to like guns that kill in less bullets. I can never keep my gun on target for very long. ?? So the less bullets needed the better.
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Post by moyer on Nov 29, 2015 19:03:31 GMT -5
The problem isn't just the low power of the ICR, but let's compare it this way to the HVK: HVK: Better hipfire spread, Faster fire rate, More 1HK range in HC, Faster sprintout time ICR: More ADS accuracy The ICR needs a very short higher damage range (like 5m) in which it does 33 or 35 damage, an extended 30 damage range (from 21m to 30m), and an extended 29 damage range (from 42m to 50m). It's meant for long range, so it should have more 4HK range to justify using it at long range. I was not aware of a hipfire advantage for the HVK. I still think the other advantages are a wash though (not in HC of course).
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Lexapro
True Bro
PSN: Lexa_pro
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Post by Lexapro on Nov 29, 2015 20:05:57 GMT -5
Gentleman's Agreement Tier (So good pros agree not use them because there would be no point using anything else): -Dredge 48 -Akimbo LCAR-9s/RK5s
Power Tier (Commonly banned or protected during the pre-game, significantly changes the metagame of the match): -Sheiva -Vesper -Pharo
Common Tier: -XR-2/M8A7 (If one is banned, the other is usually protected) -VMP (Usually not banned because doing so gimps all SMG players severely)
Uncommon Tier: -Man O' War/HVK-30/ICR (when burst ARs are banned and map dependent) -Kuda/Razorback (when VMP gets banned)
Only ever seen in SnD: -Locus -SVG-100 (much more common)
Everything else is uncompetitive.
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banana
True Banana
Zoro > Law
Posts: 1,577
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Post by banana on Nov 30, 2015 9:53:43 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure they just ban the Sheiva out of habit
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wittyscorpion
True Brorange
All warfare is based on deception.
Posts: 8,598
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Post by wittyscorpion on Nov 30, 2015 10:47:47 GMT -5
In a KC lobby I played on Sunday, I ran into a player who ran LCAR-9 with 5+ perks and the Synthe weapon, and in the 4-5 games I played with/against him, he finished every game first with 30-50 kills.
Obviously he is a very good player. I wonder how much his success can be contributed to the weapon.
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Post by flatulentmonkeys on Nov 30, 2015 12:03:15 GMT -5
This thread helps enforce my belief that the gun balance in this game is really good.
My "list" would look nothing like any of the ones posted.
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Post by iw5000 on Nov 30, 2015 13:26:40 GMT -5
The more I use the VMP, the more I kind of like it almost as much as the Pharo. I'm surprised a lot of people have a solid level or two below the Pharo.
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banana
True Banana
Zoro > Law
Posts: 1,577
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Post by banana on Nov 30, 2015 14:54:56 GMT -5
In a KC lobby I played on Sunday, I ran into a player who ran LCAR-9 with 5+ perks and the Synthe weapon, and in the 4-5 games I played with/against him, he finished every game first with 30-50 kills. Obviously he is a very good player. I wonder how much his success can be contributed to the weapon. I wanted to rank it higher but the recoil always messes me up. Still need to test to see if its recoil is comparable to the vesper's
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