Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Nov 17, 2016 4:48:40 GMT -5
Well he DID "discover" the bunnyhop. Right guys?
Right?
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wittyscorpion
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All warfare is based on deception.
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Post by wittyscorpion on Nov 17, 2016 13:24:33 GMT -5
Being exclusively a PC player, he is nine enough to provide a guide on slide hopping with controller:
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Nov 18, 2016 3:56:46 GMT -5
Yeah, that sucked, because I can't really do it while being a controller "vet".
Air strafing is just so damn counter intuitive. Especially if you have to push 2 other buttons every second.
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Post by Pegasus Actual on Nov 18, 2016 5:52:06 GMT -5
Just because we were talking about it Dumien, the EVA... Yeah frothyomen likes it a lot more than I do. Not that it can't be fun: But... it just has that inconsistent TTK feel to it. I'm always wasting shots on guys I've already killed, and stopping shooting dudes that are still alive. The mag is small, the reload is slow, and you need Tactikill + Phase Shift to really make it work in the first place. I think I would take the CAR over it 100% of the time, of course I'm also constantly abusing the generous aim assist in this game so maybe I'd feel different if I were spending more time on the PC version.
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wittyscorpion
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All warfare is based on deception.
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Post by wittyscorpion on Nov 18, 2016 14:46:49 GMT -5
When looking at frothyomen's tier list video: keep in mind that he favors weapons that have excellent hip fire, so he can move in craze ways while shooting. With that in mind, there is no surprise that he put Eva, Volt, and Smart Pistol on the "S" (superior?) tier. Here is one of his recorded twitch stream. For the first game you can see that he does not even bother ADS when using Volt.
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tiesieman
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mental lagger
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Post by tiesieman on Nov 19, 2016 13:55:42 GMT -5
I mostly agree with frothys vid
I don't really see why the EVA is supposed to be so god-tier since it's still limited in range moreso than SMGs while being less consistent. Stil great though, so A-tier
I also think the hitscan pistols arent good at all, definitely not b-tier (in a vaccuum; with loadout contraint in consideration they're F-tier). The hitscan ones have super mediocre hipfire and the mozambique is worthless as a backup weapon. The only exception is an amped Wingman, which is frankly stupid-tier and shouldn't be in the game.
Lastly I'd bump the softball to "has a purpose" C-tier, because it's probably the most efficient AI killer in the game for early bounty hunt
I hope they take a dump on SMGs and buff the fun weapons. It's insane how big the chasm is between some of the weapon choices in this game
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Nov 21, 2016 4:38:59 GMT -5
Frothy doesn't bother ADS with anything. Look at some flatline gameplay, he doesn't zoom in and rages all the time because the hipfire is RNG.
He doesn't seem to understand flatline is more accurate while ADS.
In general I think he is right though, hipfire is the name of the game. Better hipfire = better gun. but hip firing something like a flatline all the time is just stupid imho.
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wittyscorpion
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All warfare is based on deception.
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Post by wittyscorpion on Nov 21, 2016 12:50:30 GMT -5
Which bros are with me if I say that Phase Shift is a bit OP?
The cool down is so fast especially with Power Cell and TactKill, it feels like an always on ability, and what a useful ability it is! As I mentioned in the other thread, I use it whenever:
1) got shot at from unexpected angles; 2) run into multiple enemies; 3) need a reload; 4) need health regen; 5) wait for titan to fall; 6) after getting angry attention from a Titan with anti-Titan weapon shots; etc.
The amazing thing is you can react with either offensive mindset or defensive mindset. 3 seconds "vacation" in a crazily fast twitch shooter is a lot of time for strategic planning.
Thoughts?
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Post by Pegasus Actual on Nov 21, 2016 13:47:07 GMT -5
Well, Witty, you know I'm a big fan of Phase Shift, but I don't know if I'd call it OP. Since you can't see enemies while in the Upside Down you can put yourself in a really bad spot. Also when you exit it makes a pretty loud sound and graphical effect that could give the advantage to your opponent. I think people just haven't seen it enough and haven't thought of counters. If you use Cloak and calmly wait from someone to phase back in you're at a huge advantage. If you pop Stim you can change your position much more than the shifter would ever expect and potentially get the drop on them. Looking at some of my clips it seems like it's two seconds and not three. Though I had thought three myself from playing.
A couple of more bits of utility I'd add to your list:
7) You can still use your weapons and equipment in the Upside Down, e.g. you can cook Frag Grenades or start spinning up the Devotion. In fact I have a hard time justifying using anything other than frags with it. Though be careful not to throw your grenade before shifting back since that wastes it. 8) With good parkour it is an amazing gap-closer. Especially if you have a double charge. This is especially useful for crashing an A-Wall or a Pilot Sentry. Sentries die in one melee shot, and if you can Phase Shift close enough even if you're still in front of it you'll make up the rest of the distance and melee it before it can kill you. 9) Possibly the stupidest, but also one of the more effective things you can do is... Phase Shift... and just stay where you are. Because who the hell expects that? Nobody, that's who.
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wittyscorpion
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All warfare is based on deception.
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Post by wittyscorpion on Nov 21, 2016 14:32:59 GMT -5
The main reason I think it is OP is because the insanely fast cool down. For the other popular choices, I am always wondering when I should use it, and to get out of a bad situation (which I tend to get into), only Phase Shift and Stim are viable in all situations. Issue with Stim is its cool down feels like eternity when compared with Phase Shift.
I guess Phase Shift does introduce a cat and mouse mini mind game. There would be a visual indication of exactly where the phase shift is ended. So a savvy player would keep calm and look for it. The 2 seconds timer is also safe time for the player against the phase shifter, so essentially both parties are repositioning/reloading/regenerating-health to get ready for the show down. It's like a time-space Mexican standoff!.
Maybe a good way to pwn noobs, but probably won't be as effective against experienced players.
While we are talking about phasing: anybody has good tips on using Phase Rewind? I have been doing Dice Roll on Boosts, and have never managed to use it effectively even once for the times it pops up. Maybe a fun way to play the game is to mix and match Phase Shift and Phase Rewind, especially in Pilot vs. Pilot.
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wittyscorpion
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All warfare is based on deception.
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Post by wittyscorpion on Nov 21, 2016 15:55:21 GMT -5
Let's also talk about Boosts as a whole. I took a gamble of buying Dice Roll for GEN 1 so I got to play with all options randomly. My personal thoughts: Top Tier: - Pilot Sentry: these machines are annoyingly deadly. Pilot got caught in its firing range = toast; - Amped Weapon: can never go wrong with this, although it is activated late at 80%, in Attrition game too close to Titan battles to be effective for Pilot killing. Getting this from Dice Roll at 36% is actually great; - Map Hack: 3 deadly pings that make the entire enemy team shake in fears. A team of multiple players with this + Ping Blade equipped can be very hard to deal with; - Battery Backup: my personal favorite. Going into the Titan fall with extra edge. That's an extra bar of pre-doom health, and some more post-doom; Fun Tier: - Smart Pistol: minion terminator, great for Bounty Hunt mode, vs. Pilot not so much unless you are a parkour pro. Could have been more useful if you can have it available on a timer (say 1 minute, like the Pilot Sentry) rather than just a single life; - Holo Pilot Nova: could be a fun one in CTF game. These little guys fake flag carrying. Probably pretty cool in Pilot vs. Pilot as well when combined with Holo Pilot tac ability; - Phase Rewind: combine with Phase Shift, time-space manipulation fun. However, it feels like a weaker version of Phase Shift, maybe I am using it wrong... Fail Tier: - Titan Sentry - it would have been better if this is pack of Reapers (these little guys are nasty...) - Hard Cover - no amp, just a wall? What's the point ? ? ? - Radar Jammer - annoying, but only good at countering Map Hack, as a boost not happen nearly frequent enough to effectively counter ping blade. Could have been in top tier if Map Hack lasts longer, or can be used more than once (say twice, like Tick). As it stands now, Ping Blade is a better counter to Map Hack and Ping Blade. This probably should just be moved to become a Tac Ability instead; - Tick: never got a single kill from these; And last but not least: due to the drastic difference of effectiveness in different boost options, buying Dice Roll seems to be a poor choice of spending credits.
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Nov 22, 2016 4:02:18 GMT -5
I don't think phase shift is OP. It is really strong though. Phase shift resets bad engagements (if you use it aggresively), while cloak and stim give you a direct advantage in the engagement. That said, it certainly is one of the best tactical.
For defensive plays (get the Foxtrot out) it is pretty good, but so is cloak and stim (and holo?) The cooldown is really short, agreed, but stim with the same cooldown would be seriously OP. I switched to phase shift a week or so ago, and I am too dump to use multiple abilities on different classes apparently... But I still miss stim quite a bit.
Radar jammer is at least in fun tier imho, but probably top tier. Really anoying if a team coordinates them. (do these automatically coordinate? It seems that if multiple are up at the same time, they go only once the previous one is down (with a little time in between)
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wittyscorpion
True Brorange
All warfare is based on deception.
Posts: 8,598
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Post by wittyscorpion on Nov 22, 2016 8:47:23 GMT -5
I just realized that I unfairly put Radar Jammer in the fail tier because I am not fully taking advantage of my radar.
What info can I get from it, specifically about nearby enemy pilot?
What I know:
small orange dot = enemy AI big orange dot = enemy pilot giant arrow = titan 1/8th full orange circle: nearby shots fired by an enemy (is this both AI and player?)
Questions:
Sometimes I see an orange circle right at the center, what does that mean?
In Pilot vs. Pilot: what does orange diamond mean?
Any other important info that I am missing?
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qupie
True Bro
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Post by qupie on Nov 22, 2016 8:54:34 GMT -5
No the red colour is from any enemy firing. But only in attrition or bounty hunt, those can be minions. And if you have played enough of those, you know when and where those will most likely be. (for example, if there is a bounty titan in the middle of the map, and you see red on your radar behind you on the edge of the map, that must be a pilot or enemy titan)
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wittyscorpion
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All warfare is based on deception.
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Post by wittyscorpion on Nov 22, 2016 8:57:29 GMT -5
Just edited my post and added a few more questions
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Nov 22, 2016 9:13:57 GMT -5
I just realized that I unfairly put Radar Jammer in the fail tier because I am not fully taking advantage of my radar. What info can I get from it, specifically about nearby enemy pilot? What I know: small orange dot = enemy AI Correct, I don't know what triggers this. at least pulse blade / map hack and tone pulse, but maybe also line of sight?big orange dot = enemy pilot correct, but only triggered by pulse blade/map hack/tone pulse giant arrow = titan Correct1/8th full orange circle: nearby shots fired by an enemy (is this both AI and player?) Normally, this is the only thing the radar does. It has 3 different distances it can detect fire from. Far (border is red), mid (red pie quadrant) and close (red circle round you), very very similar as how the radar in Destiny works (but in this game it is not a proximity sensor, but only lights up on enemy gunfire). This is for both AI, pilots and titans though. So you have to assess this information yourself as which is most likely. As you play longer, you will notice that AI doesn't show up on some area's of a map. And AI only exist in bounty hunt and attrition, so for the other game modes the radar is even more valuable.
Questions: Sometimes I see an orange circle right at the center, what does that mean? Same as destiny. There is something/one very very close to you, but he/she/it must be firing its gun. In Pilot vs. Pilot: what does orange diamond mean? It is the enemy spawn. Any other important info that I am missing? I don't think so hope this helps!
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Will
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Post by Will on Nov 22, 2016 17:58:29 GMT -5
You don't regen health in Upside-down world AFAIK. While we are talking about phasing: anybody has good tips on using Phase Rewind? I have been doing Dice Roll on Boosts, and have never managed to use it effectively even once for the times it pops up. Maybe a fun way to play the game is to mix and match Phase Shift and Phase Rewind, especially in Pilot vs. Pilot. I also always use Dice Roll for the random fun aspect of it, Rewind is probably the 2nd worst ability, after the particle wall. The most effective use is after you rodeo-steal a Titan's battery, they are no doubt going to turn around and kill you since it highlights you on their screen (and shows you through walls), Phase Rewind seems to erase this highlight permanently (not confirmed), and it also puts you back up in the air at Titan height, enabling you to easily re-rodeo (provided they didn't dash away too far). The other use, in pilot-vs-pilot, is if you find yourself getting shot from behind or chased. In all my time playing, I've only managed to get one clip of it actually working, lol. xboxdvr.com/gamer/Will%20Wheatley/video/23792718
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wittyscorpion
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All warfare is based on deception.
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Post by wittyscorpion on Nov 29, 2016 22:17:28 GMT -5
Pilot related balances from the latest patch: NEW WEAPON WEAPON BALANCES Volt got nerfed, while almost all the acknowledged UP primary weapons got buffed. TACTICAL ABILITY ADJUSTMENT Basically Cloak got nerfed.
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Will
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Post by Will on Nov 30, 2016 0:08:05 GMT -5
Cloak is fully disabled when you fire now, like in the first game? That is a terrible adjustment... the way it was at launch is perfect. That adjustment will make it a completely useless ability compared to Phase Shift
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wittyscorpion
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All warfare is based on deception.
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Post by wittyscorpion on Nov 30, 2016 0:11:30 GMT -5
Cloak is fully disabled when you fire now, like in the first game? That is a terrible adjustment... the way it was at launch is perfect. That adjustment will make it a completely useless ability compared to Phase Shift My reaction exactly as well on Cloak may become undesirable, but not sure that's really a bad thing.
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wittyscorpion
True Brorange
All warfare is based on deception.
Posts: 8,598
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Post by wittyscorpion on Nov 30, 2016 2:13:37 GMT -5
I am also wondering how good the new Wingman Pistol is, if it is like the one in TF1 in terms of feel, then it might be a solid choice for secondary...
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Will
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Post by Will on Nov 30, 2016 2:53:39 GMT -5
You are invulnerable while performing a titan execution, however you are not while doing a pilot one. You can be easily killed while performing the animation, often before you are granted the kill from the execution, effectively allowing someone to "rescue" their teammate.
Deep meta thought: will the new phase shift execution make the pilot performing it somewhat invulnerable for a moment? If so, then this is the best execution to use.
(but grand theft semi auto is still the sexiest so fuck the meta)
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wittyscorpion
True Brorange
All warfare is based on deception.
Posts: 8,598
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Post by wittyscorpion on Nov 30, 2016 3:26:10 GMT -5
Looks like the new execution unlock requires 50 executions to be performed.
On a related topic: how to hack a spectre? I still haven't figured that out yet.
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Will
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Post by Will on Nov 30, 2016 3:27:28 GMT -5
Looks like the new execution unlock requires 50 executions to be performed. On a related topic: how to hack a spectre? I still haven't figured that out yet. Hold the reload button when behind one, same as the first game. It will auto-hack any other spectres in it's cluster (usually 3-6 spectres).
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Nov 30, 2016 9:34:47 GMT -5
I forgot all about hacking spectres... on the other hand, you're giving the other team more stuff to shoot for points. So does it at least give you the same points you would have gotten for killing them? If not it seems like a net loss given they aren't likely to do more than tickle the other team.
I agree on cloak... I really liked the new buffed cloak more. Maybe they should have just extended the disruption time when you fire. Or they could have the cooldown use depend on how long you're cloaked so if you drop out of cloak early you can recloak again quicker... (or is that already a thing? I haven't paid enough attention to notice.)
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Post by trizzydizzy on Nov 30, 2016 10:28:15 GMT -5
I forgot all about hacking spectres... on the other hand, you're giving the other team more stuff to shoot for points. So does it at least give you the same points you would have gotten for killing them? If not it seems like a net loss given they aren't likely to do more than tickle the other team. I've heard a few times on the subreddit that it removes their potential points if killed. So it's like creep denying from DotA.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2016 11:39:49 GMT -5
Pilot related balances from the latest patch: TACTICAL ABILITY ADJUSTMENT Basically Cloak got nerfed. Hoo boy, so the only tactical ability that could hold its own against Phase shift aka "Press Q to vanish from ingame for a moment" gets nerfed that hard? Welp, I'm jumping onto the phase shift troll train which I wasn't on purely out of respect for other players since Phase shift allows me to turn fights I should lose into wins 90% of time.
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wittyscorpion
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All warfare is based on deception.
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Post by wittyscorpion on Nov 30, 2016 15:04:58 GMT -5
You can still vanish, just don't fire your weapon until you are sure you have the upper hand Any experiences to share on various weapon balances? Which changes are significant enough to affect the weapon tiering?
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Will
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Post by Will on Nov 30, 2016 16:13:36 GMT -5
I forgot all about hacking spectres... on the other hand, you're giving the other team more stuff to shoot for points. So does it at least give you the same points you would have gotten for killing them? If not it seems like a net loss given they aren't likely to do more than tickle the other team. You get the same points for hacking them as you do for killing them, PLUS any kills that your spectre army gets will go towards your score (they are great at taking out groups of grunts while you focus on pilots). The enemy team will not be awarded any points for killing your hacked spectres.
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wittyscorpion
True Brorange
All warfare is based on deception.
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Post by wittyscorpion on Nov 30, 2016 18:52:13 GMT -5
On the weapon front: looks like Wingman Elite is definitely on its way of becoming the best pistol in the game. It is projectile based instead of hitscan, with perfect hip fire accuracy.
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