markopolo
True Bro
Once a LMG Camper, Then a Voidlock, Now a Lexington 25-8-366 Runner
Posts: 5,567
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Post by markopolo on Feb 10, 2017 15:02:33 GMT -5
Oh, and Firebase Delphi is your trials map to get 720 noscoped by a HellaLitLeet Warlock runnin' the UberMeta OA/NLB/Wormwood to pwn yer tochas
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hebbnh
True Bro
Cacodemon expert
Posts: 2,688
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Post by hebbnh on Feb 10, 2017 15:22:29 GMT -5
Another PvP "balance" patch, another failure as far as I'm concerned. Not all bad with some of the primary changes (yay for hand cannons actually hitting where you're aiming!), but the special ammo economy nerf is terrible IMO. The funny part is they restricted special ammo big time a couple patches ago, which the community hated so much they changed it back in the next patch, and now they're doubling down on that special nerf? Makes no sense at all. Welcome to campville, sniper capital USA. Hungering blade nerf is baffling too, frankly, and it reeks of continuing to balance the sandbox towards casual players instead of the "competitive" players like they should be doing. Bladedancer is basically never used in high-end play, and yet it gets knocked down a peg anyway? Nonsense.
True Vanguard made a funny point in one of his vids I saw earlier. No Land Beyond was nothing more than a troll weapon when it was introduced, and has had basically no changes other than the iron sights being adjusted a bit (and basically the same could be said of sidearms -- they've been ok, but nothing special really). Now NLB/sidearm is probably a meta loadout due to everything else getting nerfed so hard, either through changes to the weapons themselves or to the ammo economy. That's...dissapointing, to say the least.
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markopolo
True Bro
Once a LMG Camper, Then a Voidlock, Now a Lexington 25-8-366 Runner
Posts: 5,567
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Post by markopolo on Feb 10, 2017 16:08:23 GMT -5
Yes and no... remember that special ammo is coming sooner and more often. So yes, when you die, you lose your special ammo.... but it comes at 1 minute instead of 3 and every.... minute after that? I think. So basically, everyone will use a primary for the beginning and roll with it later. I mean, fffs... the damn patch hasn't even come out yet and people are already dropping their trousers. If the special ammo nerf sucks so bad, just use a damn invective or icebreaker. But its a simple fact that PVP was getting too stale no matter what people say... clever dragon + matador + who gives a foxtrot. While I'm not the biggest fan of PVP, it will at least be nice to see some damn variety.
The simple, and amusing fact is no matter what Bungie was going to do, people were going to hate it and label it broken or gamebreaking or whatever.
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malgato
True Bro
Farm ammo, then everyone wipe.
Posts: 1,195
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Post by malgato on Feb 10, 2017 18:40:59 GMT -5
I think hungering blade got nerfed as a result of the special ammo nerf. If you don't have shotgun ammo to counter the super, then that super could become way overpowered. Also, hebbnh - good to see you! Are you ready to raid again?! I've been playing the lonely, frustrating game of LFG/100.io raiding. Sometimes good, sometimes bad. It would be nice to get the band back together.
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hebbnh
True Bro
Cacodemon expert
Posts: 2,688
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Post by hebbnh on Feb 10, 2017 19:43:14 GMT -5
Marko, didn't they more or less already do that with special once though? Where you spawned in with none initially but the timers for the boxes were shortened to compensate? I don't recall the specifics but I know it wasn't well-received and got changed quickly. This seems like that all over again, except instead of nobody having special, it's only the players that die that lose special. So now they get to wait 30-45 seconds for more to spawn while trying not to get shotgun rushed multiple times in the interim while they don't have any special ammo to counter those pushes. Maybe it plays out differently, but in my mind it probably leads to a lot of tactical loitering waiting for special to spawn and hoping you don't get bumrushed while you're "defenseless." Could lead to a lot of snowball type games where the first team to get a few kills ends up controlling special and dominating the whole game, which isn't very enjoyable. Maybe it turns out fine, but I think that reasoning is what people are unhappy about. Not like I'm going to be playing much of it anyway though, complaining just to complain more or less lol.
Mal, I'm still pretty tied down unfortunately. Just not enough time in the day for games usually, much less a chunk large enough to accomplish much in a raid. Someday soon, hopefully. Right now I'm lucky to get a rift or two done on diablo without getting interrupted. I guess that might make some sense regarding the Blade change, but I still think it was weaker than stormtrance or hammers to begin with, so it seems pretty unneeded.
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wings
True Bro
Posts: 3,776
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Post by wings on Feb 11, 2017 2:39:34 GMT -5
Another PvP "balance" patch, another failure as far as I'm concerned. Not all bad with some of the primary changes (yay for hand cannons actually hitting where you're aiming!), but the special ammo economy nerf is terrible IMO. The funny part is they restricted special ammo big time a couple patches ago, which the community hated so much they changed it back in the next patch, and now they're doubling down on that special nerf? Makes no sense at all. Welcome to campville, sniper capital USA. Hungering blade nerf is baffling too, frankly, and it reeks of continuing to balance the sandbox towards casual players instead of the "competitive" players like they should be doing. Bladedancer is basically never used in high-end play, and yet it gets knocked down a peg anyway? Nonsense. True Vanguard made a funny point in one of his vids I saw earlier. No Land Beyond was nothing more than a troll weapon when it was introduced, and has had basically no changes other than the iron sights being adjusted a bit (and basically the same could be said of sidearms -- they've been ok, but nothing special really). Now NLB/sidearm is probably a meta loadout due to everything else getting nerfed so hard, either through changes to the weapons themselves or to the ammo economy. That's...dissapointing, to say the least. It looks like Bungie's stance on balancing takes into account of subclass KDRs, and they are trying to make them equal across the board to make them look balanced. The problem with this is that, subclasses that have a higher skill gap get overnerfed and those who play that subclass will feel there's no need to play that subclass any longer. Then you have subclasses often having the issue of having one decent exotic so their usage becomes overrepresented, which has happened with Warlocks and Hunters. Another issue for me I feel is that the numerous nerfs has made the game feel it has less space magic. If the game removes space magic features in the Crucible then dedicated multiplayer shooters seem more appealing. Then you have Crucible dictated nerfs like to shotgun range making encounters like Golgoroth be played differently to what Bungie intended.
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Post by snes chalmers on Feb 13, 2017 0:38:31 GMT -5
Thanks to markopolo and bradman, I have all 3 Taken King exotic swords, and now they're all fully upgraded and over 390 light.
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Post by TheHawkNY on Feb 13, 2017 9:58:18 GMT -5
Another PvP "balance" patch, another failure as far as I'm concerned. Not all bad with some of the primary changes (yay for hand cannons actually hitting where you're aiming!), but the special ammo economy nerf is terrible IMO. The funny part is they restricted special ammo big time a couple patches ago, which the community hated so much they changed it back in the next patch, and now they're doubling down on that special nerf? Makes no sense at all. Welcome to campville, sniper capital USA. Hungering blade nerf is baffling too, frankly, and it reeks of continuing to balance the sandbox towards casual players instead of the "competitive" players like they should be doing. Bladedancer is basically never used in high-end play, and yet it gets knocked down a peg anyway? Nonsense. True Vanguard made a funny point in one of his vids I saw earlier. No Land Beyond was nothing more than a troll weapon when it was introduced, and has had basically no changes other than the iron sights being adjusted a bit (and basically the same could be said of sidearms -- they've been ok, but nothing special really). Now NLB/sidearm is probably a meta loadout due to everything else getting nerfed so hard, either through changes to the weapons themselves or to the ammo economy. That's...dissapointing, to say the least. It's too early to call the patch a "failure", we don't even know all of the changes yet. Also, what you consider a failure and what Bungie considers a failure may be 2 very different things. As for NLB - Destiny has always had 2 classes of weapons - those with a TTK of 0, and those with a TTK of above 0. No matter what they've done, the former have outclassed the latter. If NLB becomes the new meta, it won't be because of the changes they made to primaries, it's that players will rationally gravitate to using weapons with a TTK of 0 as much as possible. Of course, for the same reason, I expect people to stand and wait much longer for special ammo after the patch - if your goal is to avoid running out like lambs to a slaughter, you'll stand and wait 20 seconds to be able to use a weapon with a TTK of 0.
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markopolo
True Bro
Once a LMG Camper, Then a Voidlock, Now a Lexington 25-8-366 Runner
Posts: 5,567
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Post by markopolo on Feb 13, 2017 10:55:10 GMT -5
I dunno about the NLB.... but whatevz. I personally, am really excited for the return of the Thorn Ramlock combo. Yes, I know it will not be nearly as deadly as it was. But the rage I got from people and the numerous post mortem kills were hellafun days. I even remember winning an Aryan Banana control match with a PMKill from a thorn that we eeeked out the victory. And Thorn Ramlock sounds like either a 1) Bad guy in a James Bond movies, 2) bradman's favourite gay male pronstar, and 3) TheHawkNY's actual gay male pronstar name, or 4) #2 and #3
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wings
True Bro
Posts: 3,776
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Post by wings on Feb 13, 2017 13:48:52 GMT -5
I never had anyone rage at me for using Thorn and I have two tapped players before, although the ones I remember were in Trials so I guess they know they were running meta stuff themselves so they cannot complain withiut being a hypocrite, although a lot of people do that anyway. Last time I checked DTG, someone mentioned they got told they had no gunskill because he/she was using Queenbreaker's Bow, so I asked what the complainer used, and it was Clever Dragon and Matador 64.
My Party Crasher +1 with Aggressive Ballistics, Battle Runner, Reinforced Barrel, and Replenish is ready for Tuesday. I might get hate mail from that for using perks to help alleviate the change in the special ammo economy.
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markopolo
True Bro
Once a LMG Camper, Then a Voidlock, Now a Lexington 25-8-366 Runner
Posts: 5,567
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Post by markopolo on Feb 13, 2017 15:22:08 GMT -5
I think Invective will make its return, but what do I know?
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bradman
True Bro
token old guy
Posts: 1,178
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Post by bradman on Feb 13, 2017 15:36:35 GMT -5
More of a Rock Bottom fan myself...
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wings
True Bro
Posts: 3,776
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Post by wings on Feb 13, 2017 15:49:06 GMT -5
Ice Breaker is probably more likely. Apparently one of the weapon ornaments changes the scope on it to make it more serviceable to PvP. Heard from a friend of a streamer I sometimes watch and I don't think he was trolling. I used Ice Breaker in year 1 when the larger maps were played more often. I'm wondering if these changes will make the game slower paced, which is not necessarily a bad thing but, the maps that are more punishing to aggressive play have been coming into rotation less frequently over time. Perhaps I'm seeing this wrong. If not, I would just have the maps that allow for ranged combat to appear more often in regular rotation so players' proficiency in special weapon usage is tested across several different weapon types, instead of being biased in favour of shotguns.
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hebbnh
True Bro
Cacodemon expert
Posts: 2,688
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Post by hebbnh on Feb 13, 2017 16:32:56 GMT -5
Another PvP "balance" patch, another failure as far as I'm concerned. Not all bad with some of the primary changes (yay for hand cannons actually hitting where you're aiming!), but the special ammo economy nerf is terrible IMO. The funny part is they restricted special ammo big time a couple patches ago, which the community hated so much they changed it back in the next patch, and now they're doubling down on that special nerf? Makes no sense at all. Welcome to campville, sniper capital USA. Hungering blade nerf is baffling too, frankly, and it reeks of continuing to balance the sandbox towards casual players instead of the "competitive" players like they should be doing. Bladedancer is basically never used in high-end play, and yet it gets knocked down a peg anyway? Nonsense. True Vanguard made a funny point in one of his vids I saw earlier. No Land Beyond was nothing more than a troll weapon when it was introduced, and has had basically no changes other than the iron sights being adjusted a bit (and basically the same could be said of sidearms -- they've been ok, but nothing special really). Now NLB/sidearm is probably a meta loadout due to everything else getting nerfed so hard, either through changes to the weapons themselves or to the ammo economy. That's...dissapointing, to say the least. It's too early to call the patch a "failure", we don't even know all of the changes yet. Also, what you consider a failure and what Bungie considers a failure may be 2 very different things. As for NLB - Destiny has always had 2 classes of weapons - those with a TTK of 0, and those with a TTK of above 0. No matter what they've done, the former have outclassed the latter. If NLB becomes the new meta, it won't be because of the changes they made to primaries, it's that players will rationally gravitate to using weapons with a TTK of 0 as much as possible. Of course, for the same reason, I expect people to stand and wait much longer for special ammo after the patch - if your goal is to avoid running out like lambs to a slaughter, you'll stand and wait 20 seconds to be able to use a weapon with a TTK of 0. Eh, agree to disagree. Like I said, failure as far as I'm concerned, which doesn't mean failure to everyone else. Frankly I don't care what Bungie considers a success or failure -- ultimately the community is what's going to decide that. Bungie can think something is successful all they want, but that doesn't count for much if the community vocally opposes it. I firmly believe that repeatedly knocking down the efficacy of special weapons is not the solution to the balance problems that exist (primaries should be made generally more effective instead, and many top-tier players have said as much for as long as I can remember). I also firmly believe that the best way to balance a game is examining what's effective or ineffective at the highest level of play and making adjustments from there, rather than looking at overly broad average performance across the whole skill spectrum. Is any "competitive" game balanced that way, toward the average scrub? Overwatch? CS:GO? Street Fighter? Smash? Halo? League? To me, the hungering blade nerf is the equivalent of cutting Ryu's hadouken throwing rate in half so bad kids that can't counter a guy doing nothing but throwing fireballs have an easier time because repeated fireball throwing is "cheap." It's also a terrible strategy against any half-competent opponent, but nevermind that, we're balancing for the least common denominator instead of the best of the best because we don't want anyone to be frustrated, ever. Also nevermind that it makes Blade (or Ryu) less viable in top-tier play. Maybe Bungie doesn't care about competitive play, which is fine, but then again they did go through all that trouble to run an MLG competitive stream not that long ago, that they said marked the future of competitive Destiny or something along those lines. It's gonna be real tough for a game to have a competitive future without balancing around competitive play. Regarding 0 TTK weapons...is that why ARs were always the weapon of choice in CoD? (I haven't touched any CoD in forever, so that may or may not be true anymore). Also, wouldn't NLB have already been meta since it was one of the only 0 TTK weapons that didn't rely on special ammo pickups? If NLB does become meta, it absolutely will be because of the nerf to special weapons due to the scarcity of ammo in the new special economy. Otherwise people would simply continue using what they're already using now. Why wouldn't they?
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wings
True Bro
Posts: 3,776
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Post by wings on Feb 14, 2017 3:40:28 GMT -5
Got the Bladedancer PvP emblem, and the Crimson red emblem from Crucible as a post-match drop. Also got a Hopscotch Pilgrim from a post-match drop - Counterbalance, Braced Frame, and Spray and Play.
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