mannon
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Post by mannon on Apr 25, 2017 16:11:24 GMT -5
The reason I bring up the lore isn't because it's a huge priority, although you would be surprised how many people will engage with a game FAR more readily if there is lore and backstory to explore and ground everything. Without the Lore I doubt there would have been a Dark Souls 3 much less effectively an entire new genre of action RPG built around it. It's something that can add a great deal to the game, but is completely optional to the player. They can simply choose to ignore it.
The reason I bring it up is because it can add to the game, without taking anything away, and it's literally cheap as hell to put it in. In fact I'd wager it was more work to setup the website than it would have been to just put the grimoire in the damn game. It doesn't have to get in anybody's way so if Pegasus wants to he can just ignore all of it. Believe it or not, there are actually people who have combed through Destiny's lore rather extensively and have whole discussions of it. It's yet another tool to engage players, but by cutting it out of the game and putting it on a website they effectively hid it away from the majority of the players the same way not building any LFG tools and relying on third parties to build them has gated those off from most players as well.
A lot of players will never find the lore, the websites, or the apps. At least some of those players and more than likely most of them could have benefited from them. The way I see it Bungie did a lot of work on making Destiny look good and making all the underlying mechanics work well, but they cut way back from their ambitions for the game and it definitely suffered for it. I'd be willing to bet even putting the grimoire online only instead of in the game was a decision made in response to cuts and scheduling issues and not a deliberate design choice...
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Apr 25, 2017 16:16:37 GMT -5
I have fairly low expectations for Destiny 2 to be significantly different from Destiny 1. Personally I still have basically no expectations, because I haven't seen anything but teaser commercials that don't mean much. I tend to avoid taking any game seriously until I can see some gameplay... usually... With more of a proven track record I'll expect more such as if say Valve actually announced H3... (yeah right) Prior to Destiny I'd have put Bungie in that catagory as well if they were announcing a new Halo. All of the Bungie Halo games have been excellent. But Destiny has clouded things a bit and I'm not sure Bungie still is what it once was.
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Apr 26, 2017 11:25:50 GMT -5
I disagree wholeheartedly about people not knowing the Lore of Destiny, mannon. Wholeheartedly. This isn't the 1990's; if you want information on anything, it is easy to find. The whole, "A lot of players will never find the lore, the websites, or the apps." bit just isn't true. People who don't want to know the lore or the websites or the apps aren't doing it out of ignorance... they're doing it out of a lack of desire. Those who want to know, know. Those who don't, don't out of choice. If anything, putting it in the game and making people watch a cutscene about some lore that may or may not be important and will just get mocked. And like you said, there are those who are making money on Bungie not doing the work themselves. And I think that suits Bungie just fine and dandy. Why go through all the work of doing something, and having to reallocate your people and resources and money, when you can just let others do it. I bet MyNameisByf and Datto are making far less than what Bungie would have to pay an employee to make and dedicate resources too. IF you have fans doing a great job of something, making a good looking product, that enhances your game, willing to do it for pennies on the dollar and the weekly exposure of a link on TW@B... it'd be stupid to let Bungie not do it. Especially for something as, let face it, optional or quazi-relevant to the game as Grimoire is
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wings
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Post by wings on Apr 26, 2017 15:01:10 GMT -5
You can have the lore available in-game without cutscenes. One way would be to visit the library at the Speaker and read the grimoire there.
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Post by Pegasus Actual on Apr 26, 2017 18:16:05 GMT -5
The Grimoire could clearly use a little work:
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Apr 27, 2017 5:35:11 GMT -5
I disagree wholeheartedly about people not knowing the Lore of Destiny, mannon. Wholeheartedly. This isn't the 1990's; if you want information on anything, it is easy to find. The whole, "A lot of players will never find the lore, the websites, or the apps." bit just isn't true. People who don't want to know the lore or the websites or the apps aren't doing it out of ignorance... they're doing it out of a lack of desire. Those who want to know, know. Those who don't, don't out of choice. If anything, putting it in the game and making people watch a cutscene about some lore that may or may not be important and will just get mocked. And like you said, there are those who are making money on Bungie not doing the work themselves. And I think that suits Bungie just fine and dandy. Why go through all the work of doing something, and having to reallocate your people and resources and money, when you can just let others do it. I bet MyNameisByf and Datto are making far less than what Bungie would have to pay an employee to make and dedicate resources too. IF you have fans doing a great job of something, making a good looking product, that enhances your game, willing to do it for pennies on the dollar and the weekly exposure of a link on TW@B... it'd be stupid to let Bungie not do it. Especially for something as, let face it, optional or quazi-relevant to the game as Grimoire is Bungie has explicitely said before launching D1 that this would be a game you would have to go online and look up some stuff if you want to find/complete everything. Seems fair to me, as a lot of players are going to do that anyway, better design your game with that in mind. A grimoire reader during load screens or something would be awesome though. Or just during one of those wait in orbit/tower/heavy synth cooldown situations. You can have the lore available in-game without cutscenes. One way would be to visit the library at the Speaker and read the grimoire there. That doesn't fix anything imho, might even make it worse because people might be less inclined to create these cool webpages/videos for lore. Picking up your phone or laptop is just as easy or even easier. Make them readable during the many wait times in Destiny.
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Post by Pegasus Actual on Apr 27, 2017 6:09:28 GMT -5
Ok, I fixed Grimoire and Crucible in one fucking fell swoop. Check it homies. First of all, you put the Grimoire cards in the game. You can keep the lore-y story-time stuff, I don't care! Boom, that's in the game. Now you make em into Hearthstone cards. Now you get rid of Crucible which sucks. Now you replace it with PVP card battles. You get the cards from doing the actual fun PVE stuff. And then you have a fun PVP mode. And no fucking Crucible. And somewhere in there Bungie makes a fuck-ton of money off of Aphoristic ya know for... some kinda magical glowy trim on his cards or whatever. I mean what makes more sense anyway, Guardians murdering each other when they're not fighting the minions of darkness? Or Guardians chill-fucking-laxing at the local Guardian Pub playing some motherfucking collectible card game in their downtime? And then they can have a cut-scene of Mal Reynolds getting caught cheating at Destinystone and having to draw his hand cannon and have a big ol' shootout. He don't care, he's still free... you can't take the sky from... he.
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wings
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Post by wings on Apr 27, 2017 6:46:02 GMT -5
I'm hoping in Destiny 2 we won't have any silly exotic quests where I have to use junk to complete it, i.e. Imprecation for the First Curse quest. They made the quest for Thorn easier and then made this quest? Oh and more mobile raid bosses with no OHK melee attacks would be nice. That way I don't have to hear any of the Bungie employees claim we love sniper rifles when they have been nerfing shotguns into the ground so we can't use them on bosses like Golgoroth in a fairly small room.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Apr 27, 2017 9:21:08 GMT -5
Yeah I'm completely 100% not on board with you on this Marko.
Exactly how many people have used the LFG tools? How many have gone to the online grimoire? And compare that to how many people have played and I'm pretty sure you're gonna have a pretty small percentage. People are lazy. Yes you can go to a website easily enough for all sorts of tools and the grimoire, but honestly... most people just won't. I'm not saying it's some insurmountable burden upon the players. If players really want that stuff they'll go there... if they know they want that stuff. But people are mostly ignorant and don't know what they want until they see it. If you don't put it in the game then people don't see it unless the seek it out and that means most of the players will never touch it.
What I'm talking about is Bungie should be doing everything they can to connect with the biggest possible audience possible. The fact that there is enough demand for the tools that others have picked it up and developed them shows two things. It shows that those tools are potentially quite useful to everyone, and that Bungie could have built a better UI... but chose not to.
You say it's just economically better for them to not spend the resources... but they have tons of resources and could do both tools and especially the grimoire pretty cheaply. In fact they DID spend the resources on the grimoire they just put it on a website instead of in the game. But there's really no good reason to keep it out of the game as long as it doesn't get in the way of the game. Keeping it out just gates it away from players that won't bother going to external sites. Many of those wouldn't care, but some would. And I think it's pretty silly to think that putting it in the game would keep people from talking about it online. Dark Souls put its lore in the game, not on some external website. It doesn't get in the way at all, in fact it's mostly just item descriptions... But it's there if you want it, and people have written pages and pages and done tons of videos on it.
When it comes down to it I'm really only suggesting two things. First, that the game would be better if everything were available from within the game and not requiring external tools, sites, or hardware so that even if a player had access to nothing but the console it-self they could 100% enjoy everything that Destiny has to offer. This is not mutually exclusive with external stuff, but it would be useful if the important stuff were in the game.
Secondly I'm suggesting that if all that stuff were in the game that it would benefit more players than if it is not in the game and that doing so would improve the experience for many players that don't even know they would benefit from it.
Part of the reason I suggest this is because I know that I myself can be one of those "lazy" players that doesn't like to have to fire up some external site or app just to do something a lot of the time. For example I play Mechwarrior Online but I don't have any friends to play it with and I don't go looking for Desura or Teamspeak servers to find a group to play with even though everybody on Reddit suggests you do that. It would be nice to get a more coherent group going and benefit from that, but there's very little in the way of in game tools for it and I'm not going to just jump randomly into voice chat servers even though I know that they exist and are even friendly to newcomers. Clearly I could benefit from the game having some more social tools built in, but there's a limit to what external tools I'm willing to use. There have also been many games that I refused to use the app for simply because I'm getting a little tired of every game having a fucking app or six. My tablet has a limited amount of constantly shrinking space, (because the system files for Android inevitably take up more and more space over time no matter what the fuck you do about it... I fucking hate mobile operating systems...) so there's only so many that I'll install.
Call me crazy, but I feel like I shouldn't HAVE to use an app for basic inventory management and I shouldn't HAVE to use a website to read the lore that I just unlocked in the game... wait, what?! Seriously... It actually kind of irritates me. Now if there were really something to those grimoire unlocks like small movies or other minigames I could understand putting it outside the game. But it's just fucking text. I'm replaying Mass Effect right now and you know what's nice. Right on the pause screen there's the "Codex" and every lore text entry in the game is available right in there. I can read them, I can ignore them. It's a stupidly simple UI. What is so hard about putting that in Destiny? Why is there any resistance to the idea at all? It harms literally nothing and no one to put it in the game. Sure a lot of people won't care. So what? Not every feature is for every player. A lot of players would enjoy having it there, that's why so many other games do it... but whatever.
The only thing I can think of is maybe I fell in love with the potential of what Destiny could be and some people fell in love with what Destiny is and while I would prefer the game change to live up to that potential others just want more of the same... I'm very much not on board for more of the same. I've done that. The loot was fun for a while, and the mechanics are satisfying, but the story and gameplay are mostly shallow. The only places where the gameplay wasn't pretty shallow are the raids and it requires grinding to get the proper equipment and then a lot of organization with other people to even do a raid... and that's something I could only experience a few times in the whole year I did play. In my opinion Destiny not only could have been better it should have been, but maybe all that's behind us now and D2 will excel in all the ways D1 fell short. We'll see...
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Apr 27, 2017 11:49:23 GMT -5
Good point on the Mass Effect codex, I agree 100%. No reason Bungie couldn't have another tab on the pause screen for all the grimoire stuff. Then it's right there for anyone who wants to check it out in depth, and probably pulls in a number of players who're just like "oh, what's this?" and then get sucked into reading more of the lore. And of course there's no negative effect for anyone who doesn't care anyway, they just avoid that tab. This one's kind of a no-brainer IMO.
I'll also agree to some extent that the LFG and better item management (especially) not being in-game is a detriment for a lot of players who just don't know any better. I simply cannot imagine playing Destiny at this point without an item manager of some sort, relying on trips to the tower and character swapping all the time to move stuff around like in Y1. I do think the 3rd party apps/sites for that stuff are probably better quality than what Bungie would come up with, if only because Bungie's priority needs to be on gameplay, story, etc. Honestly I don't really have a good idea for inventory management in-game. Even if you could access your vault at any time, or keep everything in inventory, you're probably going to have a tough time finding exactly what you're looking for. Some kind of search option or filters would help, but I think most players would realize quickly that an app is probably an easier solution, but I guess it's better than what we have in-game now so sure, why not?
I'm guessing D2 is going to be quite different in regards to LFG/matchmaking. It sounds like there'll be some type of queue system, where if you run across some matchmade activity while out in the open world, you can simply queue up for it and then carry on with whatever you were doing, and you'll get a notification whenever the activity queue fills up and then off you go. Basically what you'd see in an MMO I guess. They can have that basic level of matchmaking for everything, and then people who want something more specific (Deathsinger checkpoint, doing challenge mode, be 390+ please, etc) can keep using LFG for those needs. That at least gets people who may not know how terrible of an idea random matchmaking for raids is a way to actually play a raid, I suppose. Kind of a no-brainer there too really, it's there for the people that want it, and doesn't affect those that don't.
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Apr 27, 2017 12:04:39 GMT -5
"Grimore" is also a pretty good name for a card game. My first experience with Witcher 3 was getting a little bit into the story and then abandoning it for my incredible yugioh/mtg side quest.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Apr 27, 2017 12:12:03 GMT -5
Yeah I think third party tools will probably do a better job on inventory than Bungie will, although I don't give them a free pass on that. In game inventories have been done by hundreds of games and a few of them have even done it well. There's really no reason Bungie can't put a good inventory system in the game, it's more a matter of will they or won't they. I don't see anything inherently better about doing it on a tablet, though... especially when the game already has an in game UI cursor... oddly enough. If we were comparing to PC then I'd definitely say that yeah you can 100% design a better UI for mouse and keyboard than controller, but touchscreens really aren't super special and you can do somethings on a controller that you can't do on a touchscreen given all the extra buttons so it's at worst a draw if not advantage controller... at least for inventory UI. I suppose you can drag and drop more fluidly and easily on a touchscreen, but on a controller you can use shoulder and trigger buttons to quickly scroll through pages or categories and use all the face buttons for different functions such as move, delete, equip, buy, sell, ect.... *shrug*
As for D2 I'm not going to speculate. Lots of ways they could do it. Honestly I don't see any reason to ever take a player out of the game and make them sit in orbit or anything. Something like you mentioned sounds kinda similar to how RDR and GTAV did things. You can que for an activity by just going there and activating it, or you can go through the menus to que for something without having to load into the open world and travel there, so it's kind of the best of both worlds. That's the sort of thing that should work well in Destiny, especially if they let you wander around and keep doing stuff while you're at it.
BTW I actually kinda like the whole Destiny CCG thing Pegasus was talking about. heh heh Not that I really play a lot of CCG's, I don't have the time... but I do kinda like them. It would be neat to have an activity we could actually do when we go back to the tower. Hell I wouldn't mind if they gave us an actual soccer field instead of just a few balls to bounce around. *shrug* I'm not holding my breath on a CCG or a soccer field or poker or anything, though. We'll be lucky if we get space combat.
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Apr 27, 2017 16:12:10 GMT -5
Yeah, I'd totally be down for some kind of grimoire CCG thing. That'd be a cool diversion. Don't take away my Crucible, though! It's not that far off from being really, really, good. They've already got the moment to moment gunplay and movement stuff nailed down from PvE, so 60 FPS, ranked and unranked playlists, and better balance (read: not the complete lack of balance we've had for most/all of D1) is all it needs.
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bradman
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Post by bradman on Apr 27, 2017 16:16:01 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure you won't need third party sites for anything this time around. No way for Acti to monetize those aspects beyond their control.
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wings
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Post by wings on May 8, 2017 7:27:34 GMT -5
Just Mercy Rule'd Hush (Primal). Thought it would be the other way round.
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Post by TheHawkNY on May 8, 2017 10:09:51 GMT -5
Yeah, I'd totally be down for some kind of grimoire CCG thing. That'd be a cool diversion. Don't take away my Crucible, though! It's not that far off from being really, really, good. They've already got the moment to moment gunplay and movement stuff nailed down from PvE, so 60 FPS, ranked and unranked playlists, and better balance (read: not the complete lack of balance we've had for most/all of D1) is all it needs. More than any of that, Destiny's PvP needs a complete overhaul of the networking. The connections in Destiny are disgraceful - if anyone put out a AAA FPS with networking as bad as Destiny's is, the networking is all anyone would talk about. When I die to a sniper, the sniper is almost never visible on my screen until after I'm dead. When I die to a melee, the melee animation happens after I'm dead almost every single time. This isn't because I'm some god-tier player, it's because even when everyone has a green bar there's still a full half-second of latency at all times. Don't even get me started on how ridiculous it is that players with bad connections have an advantage. Destiny's netcode is simply unacceptable for PvP. Who cares if it's 30 FPS if the lag is 15 frames? I don't need to see that melee animation in 60 FPS if it happens after I'm already dead.
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hebbnh
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Destiny 2
May 8, 2017 12:50:59 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by hebbnh on May 8, 2017 12:50:59 GMT -5
Heh, yeah I guess just forgot to list that. Definitely a must.
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on May 10, 2017 10:56:51 GMT -5
So far, I am pleasantly surprised how effective the plumbers are at Bungie... because there are virtually no leaks of anything D2 related.
I'm actually excited for the 18th... more so than for anything Bungie did with their DLC releases
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wings
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Post by wings on May 10, 2017 12:39:28 GMT -5
Yeah, I'd totally be down for some kind of grimoire CCG thing. That'd be a cool diversion. Don't take away my Crucible, though! It's not that far off from being really, really, good. They've already got the moment to moment gunplay and movement stuff nailed down from PvE, so 60 FPS, ranked and unranked playlists, and better balance (read: not the complete lack of balance we've had for most/all of D1) is all it needs. More than any of that, Destiny's PvP needs a complete overhaul of the networking. The connections in Destiny are disgraceful - if anyone put out a AAA FPS with networking as bad as Destiny's is, the networking is all anyone would talk about. When I die to a sniper, the sniper is almost never visible on my screen until after I'm dead. When I die to a melee, the melee animation happens after I'm dead almost every single time. This isn't because I'm some god-tier player, it's because even when everyone has a green bar there's still a full half-second of latency at all times. Don't even get me started on how ridiculous it is that players with bad connections have an advantage. Destiny's netcode is simply unacceptable for PvP. Who cares if it's 30 FPS if the lag is 15 frames? I don't need to see that melee animation in 60 FPS if it happens after I'm already dead. I wouldn't be surprised if Bungie's decision to change the special and heavy ammo economy and keep primaries at their slower killing rate when compared to Destiny at release is to cover up latency issues. I have been in lobbies where I have gone for a second sniper shot because I thought the shot didn't register, only to get the in-game notification of the kill just before I fire my second shot. Then I have had Strikers and Sunsingers blinking on my screen too. And yet, I occasionally go back to the older COD titles (Black Ops 1 & 2, COD4 etc), and they are nowhere near as bad as Destiny is right now. So we get ridiculous latency, lobbies not being filled despite matchmaking taking up to five minutes to find players, and low tick rates in the game and Activision and/or Bungie are trying to grow Destiny into an "e-Sports" game like Counter Strike....
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Post by TheHawkNY on May 11, 2017 9:42:34 GMT -5
Oh, you mean like this? It's too bad none of their changes were able to hide those latency issues.
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Post by TheHawkNY on May 11, 2017 9:43:41 GMT -5
By the way, that's the same enemy you see at the end of the hallway at the beginning of the gif.
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on May 11, 2017 11:29:50 GMT -5
Holy $hitballs Hawk... how did you hack my ps4 and get that video clip of my Destiny PVP experience whenever I played with you?
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wings
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Post by wings on May 12, 2017 8:48:53 GMT -5
By the way, that's the same enemy you see at the end of the hallway at the beginning of the gif. For PvP I don't think I've had a lag spike as big as that but my laggy game on The Burning Shrine against three Italians looks like the lag caused me to lose. I don't usually use latency but when Titans are blinking like a Stormcaller then I can't really dismiss it. Unfortunately that was the second loss on the card and it put me off bothering to run Trials for a very long time. Only bothered to run again because I ran with Ninja with no L and V9 Gary. Here is some epic lag created earlier: xboxdvr.com/gamer/EnglandsDimebag/video/31005166Notice how bad he or she is lagging despite topping the leaderboard.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on May 12, 2017 12:23:52 GMT -5
When I did play Destiny I never had any lag spikes that bad... some minor rubber banding and warping, but that's nuts.
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wings
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Post by wings on May 13, 2017 3:12:36 GMT -5
When I did play Destiny I never had any lag spikes that bad... some minor rubber banding and warping, but that's nuts. Latency was best during vanilla. The release of DLCs, which have split the playerbase, and updates to the Crucible have coincided with downgrade in networking performance.
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Post by TheHawkNY on May 15, 2017 10:03:08 GMT -5
When I did play Destiny I never had any lag spikes that bad... some minor rubber banding and warping, but that's nuts. Latency was best during vanilla. The release of DLCs, which have split the playerbase, and updates to the Crucible have coincided with downgrade in networking performance. The issue can be separated into two parts - the networking code, and the matchmaking. The matchmaking may have seen tweaks, due to the DLCs, and other changes; but they've made no changes to the horrendous networking code. They recently reduced the number of active playlists to help the matchmaking side, but they haven't made any changes to the networking code. Unfortunately, they haven't even made simple changes to the matchmaking code to help alleviate the issues. If you're playing Trials in a group where two of you have a green bar and one of you has a red bar and is lagging everywhere, you have a huge advantage. Those groups should be matchmade with each other, not against players with good connections.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on May 15, 2017 10:37:18 GMT -5
I both am and am not surprised. I know some of the past Halo games had good multiplayer, and presumably decent netcode for it. Having said that the online co-op was HORRENDOUS, even in Reach. Co-op was pretty much unplayable online even with good internet. Oddly Destiny is kinda backwards on this I guess. The co-op is mostly okay, although I presume the multiplayer latency issues still exist they just don't apply to the AI's so it kinda doesn't matter. I'm not sure exactly how Destiny handles the AI's in coop. Seems like some combination of client side and server side stuff going on there. Although they really don't move around a whole lot anyway so you can kinda get away with a lot. Even the ones that rush you seem to pretty much come strait at you, or go hide. None of the AI enemies try to zip around like players do and all the ones that can actually do massive damage are even less mobile... most of the time... depending on your character.
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Post by TheHawkNY on May 15, 2017 15:15:59 GMT -5
Like you said, in PvE the lag is less noticeable because of the difference in enemy activities. I've done raids with South Africans, and didn't notice them teleporting around, but there was a noticeable slight delay between shooting an enemy and when they died. But in PvE, a fraction of a second also matters a lot less, because the enemies aren't rushing and meleeing you, they're generally not firing a steady stream of bullets, they're not popping out from cover and sniping you before they're on your screen.
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qupie
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Post by qupie on May 16, 2017 3:02:51 GMT -5
Even though PvE is less harsh on connections, I still think bungie did a really good job on the PvE netcode. It just works, doesn't really matter where you are. It can provide some glitches in raids, but that is about it.
On the other hand, the PvP netcode is rubbish. Keep the PvE netcode and introduce dedicated servers for PvP and we have a winner in D2.
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wings
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Post by wings on May 16, 2017 8:46:42 GMT -5
Latency was best during vanilla. The release of DLCs, which have split the playerbase, and updates to the Crucible have coincided with downgrade in networking performance. The issue can be separated into two parts - the networking code, and the matchmaking. The matchmaking may have seen tweaks, due to the DLCs, and other changes; but they've made no changes to the horrendous networking code. They recently reduced the number of active playlists to help the matchmaking side, but they haven't made any changes to the networking code. Unfortunately, they haven't even made simple changes to the matchmaking code to help alleviate the issues. If you're playing Trials in a group where two of you have a green bar and one of you has a red bar and is lagging everywhere, you have a huge advantage. Those groups should be matchmade with each other, not against players with good connections. I can tolerate minor amounts of lag because it cannot be completely avoided, but the amount of fake green bars I see in lobbies and red bar players being towards the top of the game's leaderboard is the most I have seen in any game I have played. Since last visiting I have some more lag-tage footage. Got some more laggy videos: xboxdvr.com/gamer/EnglandsDimebag/video/31202826xboxdvr.com/gamer/EnglandsDimebag/video/31203032 (red bar warrior near the top of the leaderboard) xboxdvr.com/gamer/EnglandsDimebag/video/31203949 (wouldn't surprise if the Guardian I sniped in this video never saw me because of my lagging teammate to my left) A bit of a conspiracy theory but I wouldn't be surprised if players with decent connections were punished, or rather those with bad ones are overcompensated unfairly, to help appeal to the mass audience that the game kind of has done since it was released. How many people who play online have their Internet connection dedicated towards gaming? I would happily look into a router that blacklists specific countries from joining to my connection but, if that exists (I have a Netduma and its geofilter is weak for Destiny and only uses supposed ping and distance) then I would imagine Bungie would force me to match against those players soon enough anyway. I have a less laggy time with Americans, Swedes, and Germans than I do with Italian and Spanish players. Oh and this morning I managed to matchmake someone based in Saudia Arabia. I've heard of Americans being matchmade against Brazilians on Reddit, and Bungie has escaped what I call "mainstream criticism". Having a game with decent gunplay is all very well, but if the networking is poor, then it's not the stellar game that many people think it is. Can't wait for Destiny 2 to come out and see people wank themselves over 60FPS and other stuff in a game with latency of greater than 1 second. I've already seen it happen in a Twitch channel I visit and I brought up Crysis 3 being 30FPS. I think I made the 60FPS fanboy leave the channel in disbelief.
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