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Post by illram on Nov 15, 2017 2:11:18 GMT -5
After about 10 hours I think I can give this a fair early assessment:
Real Positives (++)
- Audio is good. Footsteps are audible (not overly loud, but good). There is now a metagame again for audio. - War mode is fun and genuinely new to COD. When was the last time we got a genuinely new experience in COD? - Lots of contract variety. Gives you "something to do" if that's your thing. - Boots on the ground! Old is new again.
Silly positives (+)
- Firing range is back! Yay. - The uniform customization system and collection packs are mildly interesting, again, if that is your thing. - The emblem editor was functional out of the gate. Sad that this is a positive but IW scarred us all. - Leaderboards and combat record are also functional from the get go. Again, thanks to IW the bar is pretty low.
Real Negatives (--)
- Map quantity. - Shotguns. They're bad, mostly. - LMGs also seem fairly poor. What's the point of these guns in this game? - I am usually defending against the kneejerk "I hate the spawns" complaint that we always see but they really are not good on many of the maps. I am not sure if it is a function of the map's design flaw (e.g. USS Texas or Aachen) or just bad spawn placement. For instance even on maps with lots of action, such as Gibraltar or Flak Station, you spawn in the same place in the back of either side, all game. Unless some daredevil makes it into your spawn. There do not appear to be spawns anywhere else other than on each side of the map in many maps for modes such as KC and TDM (which have the most benefit from a good dynamic system, and suffer the most from a poor one). - Gun customization is boring. - Class customization system is boring. - Perks are mostly lame. - Many of the Division special abilities are useless.
Silly Negatives (-)
- User interface is terrible. Like, someone needs to be moved to another department. "Lets make them press 4 buttons to leave the game, maybe that will stop people from quitting?" *burns game* - Pre-and post-lobby, when it works, just isn't doing it for me. Emblems are not very prominently displayed, the top 3 thing is really lame since you basically just watch 3 people sit there and maybe wave or sit down for 5 second. It's like they thought "well Treyarch and IW just did it so we have to do it now." Why? - Haha the emotes are all the same 3 or 4 movements, just with different slogans. (You see them on the left of the screen, like it's a chat on PC.) I think they're just fucking with us at this point.
Unknowns (??)
- HQ. This was billed as one of the core new things in this game and it doesn't work, 2 weeks from launch. WTF guys? - Killstreaks. Not sure how I feel about these yet. Probably fine. The killstreak meta does not seem very in depth but they don't seem to be a factor much anyway and are overall sort of weak.
Looking at the above list, based on my notes from a few hours of play where I just sort of jotted down random thoughts, the negatives outweigh the positives. I have not liked a few COD's at first, such as IW and BO3, and grown to really enjoy them, so I will give this a longer chance. There is usually a growing pains phase with every new COD. But, since many of the core things in the game (guns, class customization, maps) are just sort of boring and less multi-dimensional than previous iterations, I'm a little less optimistic. I dunno. 6/10 so far.
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Post by iw5000 on Nov 15, 2017 9:50:10 GMT -5
I have no real big complaints against it. My only issue right now is not doing real well. I'm struggling to hit anything, which is partly due to still playing Destiny 2 a good bit. So unfortunately, after an early rush of playing a bunch the initial week, I haven't even touched this game in a week now. The few times I've had some time for gaming, I've playing D2.
We'll see how this goes.....which game pulls me in more over the next month.
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Usagi
True Bro
Grin and Barrett
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Post by Usagi on Nov 16, 2017 0:38:12 GMT -5
RIP the dolphin dive exploit, they added a short cooldown to it.
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pachiderm
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Chewing some serious leaves
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Post by pachiderm on Nov 16, 2017 9:17:42 GMT -5
After about 10 hours I think I can give this a fair early assessment: Real Positives (++) - Audio is good. Footsteps are audible (not overly loud, but good). There is now a metagame again for audio. I'm honestly amazed at how people still consider this a positive. Like literally all it ever does is limit perk selection to the perk that silences your footsteps. If it can be considered a metagame it is an incredibly shallow one that revolves more around playstyle than skill.
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Post by kylet357 on Nov 16, 2017 9:44:47 GMT -5
In my experience, the footsteps are shit. I can only ever hear mine or my teammates' feet, and yet the enemy footsteps seem nearly inaudible at times. Not to mention that Crouching doesn't decrease footstep sound (as far as I can tell) and the Dead Silence basic training doesn't seem to lighten your footstep sound when sprinting (or at the least, not from your point of view).
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bradman
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Post by bradman on Nov 16, 2017 11:53:15 GMT -5
Just the opposite for me, I'm hearing enemies all over the place with great positional awareness. I stil only get a couple hitmarkers before getting wasted though.
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Post by illram on Nov 16, 2017 12:15:37 GMT -5
After about 10 hours I think I can give this a fair early assessment: Real Positives (++) - Audio is good. Footsteps are audible (not overly loud, but good). There is now a metagame again for audio. I'm honestly amazed at how people still consider this a positive. Like literally all it ever does is limit perk selection to the perk that silences your footsteps. If it can be considered a metagame it is an incredibly shallow one that revolves more around playstyle than skill. Footsteps are normal loud, not B03 loud. I think that is reasonable for a quick TTK shooter like COD. If you don't play with the volume at zero then I don't think it's fair to say some audio cues are OK but others are not.
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Post by GodMars on Nov 16, 2017 12:35:29 GMT -5
Just the opposite for me, I'm hearing enemies all over the place with great positional awareness. I stil only get a couple hitmarkers before getting wasted though. The old turret isn’t turning as fast as it used to, eh Brad? The problem is you don’t have me, Hawk, and Hazard around to support your ability to lock down an area by yourself.
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bradman
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token old guy
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Post by bradman on Nov 16, 2017 13:08:56 GMT -5
Alone I sit, in my own feces.
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pachiderm
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Post by pachiderm on Nov 16, 2017 16:04:27 GMT -5
I'm honestly amazed at how people still consider this a positive. Like literally all it ever does is limit perk selection to the perk that silences your footsteps. If it can be considered a metagame it is an incredibly shallow one that revolves more around playstyle than skill. Footsteps are normal loud, not B03 loud. I think that is reasonable for a quick TTK shooter like COD. If you don't play with the volume at zero then I don't think it's fair to say some audio cues are OK but others are not. But it is fair to say that. The entire game is about movement and positioning on almost every conceivable level of play. An audio cue that lets enemy players know where you are when you move means players either don't move or they take the perk that silences their footsteps. Why punish players for moving in a game that is all about movement? I mean not all players soundwhore, and not all players know they're being soundwhored but the "I'm prone around the corner with my sights up because I heard your footsteps" playstyle has no real counter outside of dead silence (or whatever the equivalent is in the current game).
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Post by GodMars on Nov 16, 2017 16:33:53 GMT -5
Footsteps are boss. No footsteps sucks.
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Post by illram on Nov 16, 2017 18:05:29 GMT -5
Footsteps are normal loud, not B03 loud. I think that is reasonable for a quick TTK shooter like COD. If you don't play with the volume at zero then I don't think it's fair to say some audio cues are OK but others are not. But it is fair to say that. The entire game is about movement and positioning on almost every conceivable level of play. An audio cue that lets enemy players know where you are when you move means players either don't move or they take the perk that silences their footsteps. Why punish players for moving in a game that is all about movement? I mean not all players soundwhore, and not all players know they're being soundwhored but the "I'm prone around the corner with my sights up because I heard your footsteps" playstyle has no real counter outside of dead silence (or whatever the equivalent is in the current game). Eliminate the silence perk then, don't eliminate a realistic sound you would expect to hear. Problem solved, everyone has the same level playing field. A game that is about movement and positioning is made more interesting when all the ways a human can perceive movement and position are accurately portrayed. Also you are assuming audio cues are only valuable for tactical loitering; they are not. Positional awareness is obviously very valuable for rushing around. I always use audio cues whenever I can and I am a very aggressive, rushing player. There really is no one playstyle that positional awareness benefits more than others, in my opinion.
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pachiderm
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Post by pachiderm on Nov 16, 2017 18:26:36 GMT -5
When everyone can hear everyone's footsteps, movement is discouraged. Again, why should players be punished for moving? Why are audible footsteps on a battlefield realistic? Why in the name of god would CoD need to consider keeping anything for the sake of "realism"?
You say you play aggressively, do you play aggressively without dead silence when you know someone on the other team is soundwhoring you?
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Post by GodMars on Nov 16, 2017 18:37:52 GMT -5
When everyone can hear everyone's footsteps, movement is discouraged. Again, why should players be punished for moving? Why are audible footsteps on a battlefield realistic? Why in the name of god would CoD need to consider keeping anything for the sake of "realism"? You say you play aggressively, do you play aggressively without dead silence when you know someone on the other team is soundwhoring you? This has not been my experience in CoD, going back to MW2. The rank and file pay no attention to footsteps, and don’t alter their play style because of it. Those of us who do pay attention, and buy the audio hardware to take advantage of it, aren’t the kind of players who sit crouched in the corner of a room for an entire match. I played through 90% of Ghosts, which was a great game for soundwhoring, without Dead Silence and with a tactically aggressive play style. I did very well, as did most everyone I played with.
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Post by aidsaidsaids on Nov 16, 2017 19:36:49 GMT -5
Putting a strictly dominant strategy in your game and having your plan for varied gameplay reduce to "cross fingers and hope the shitters playing the game don't notice it" is a pretty sad design philosophy, and the fact that the CoD playerbase is by and large terrible isn't a great defense of it. There's a reason competitive CoD rulesets ban half the game. A 20m wallhack on all moving players is way less fun when everyone has one.
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Post by lustindarkness on Nov 16, 2017 20:19:33 GMT -5
My problem with the footstep sounds in this game is friendly footsteps (including own) seem to be louder than the enemies. Maybe I should just get a good headset instead of this old POS I have.
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Post by UrbaneVirtuoso on Nov 17, 2017 0:51:04 GMT -5
So... what's the point of the M1 Garand? Thing's a piece of shit in a lobby brimming with full-autos.
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Post by snes chalmers on Nov 17, 2017 0:52:33 GMT -5
My problem with the footstep sounds in this game is friendly footsteps (including own) seem to be louder than the enemies. Maybe I should just get a good headset instead of this old POS I have. Yeah, friendly footsteps do seem to drown out enemy footsteps. Losing track of enemy footsteps due to an approaching elephant friendly has already doomed me several times. Kind of makes me think about getting a new headset, I've been using this thing for nearly 5 years now, it might be time to put it out to pasture.
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Post by iw5000 on Nov 17, 2017 9:32:38 GMT -5
When everyone can hear everyone's footsteps, movement is discouraged. Again, why should players be punished for moving? Why are audible footsteps on a battlefield realistic? Why in the name of god would CoD need to consider keeping anything for the sake of "realism"? You say you play aggressively, do you play aggressively without dead silence when you know someone on the other team is soundwhoring you? There's nothing realistic per se about footsteps. I think this is the issue. Good sound effects help immerse the player in the game more. Exaggerate things the other way. A war game without hardly any sound, is only hitting one of senses, sight. If a developer can create a symphony of cool sound effects in the game too, that's now hitting two of our senses, and almost doubling the immersion effect. So why wouldn't you buff up the game with a rich sound environment? It makes sense. If developers could find a way to hit our other 19 senses, especially the big ones of taste, smell and touch...now we would be really having a good time. The more senses we hit in a game, the better the game. Sound is good. So the issue isn't sound, it's PvP balance. And on that, I do sort of agree. It's a touchy subject because A LOT of CoD players who call themselves great players, are mostly just average players who have great equipment. That is the FPS gaming reality. XIM systems, expensive headsets, SCUFF's, better monitor setup, ...you put these all together, and you can put yourself at a huge advantage over most of the player base who is playing with TV sound, sitting to far from the TV, and using a regular controller. It's a horrible mismatch. CoDWW2 seems fair. Make everyone's footsteps equal. If you have three teammates stampeding around you, it's going to be harder to hear enemy noise. Fair enough. That's why gaming is a bit weird, especially when defining 'skill'. Not saying it's not like that in real activities with skill. Always tough to compare real sports with gaming.....but a golfer can go buy better clubs. A MMA athlete can go buy steroids to help get bigger/stronger. One can do the same thing there, but with less of an effect.
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Post by lustindarkness on Nov 17, 2017 9:43:28 GMT -5
So... what's the point of the M1 Garand? Thing's a piece of shit in a lobby brimming with full-autos. Historical accuracy.. uh never mind.
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Post by aidsaidsaids on Nov 17, 2017 10:19:13 GMT -5
So... what's the point of the M1 Garand? Thing's a piece of shit in a lobby brimming with full-autos. It definitely feels like it was put in simply as an iconic period weapon the lack of which people would notice and complain about. If it was good at any stage in development it's clear they make extra super sure it was "safe" before release. I can understand (barely) not wanting to relive the doubleclick glory days of WaW, but they could have accomplished that with a 600rpm firecap. Nerfing the RoF, mag size, recoil and damage all at once is an obvious signal that they wanted the gun to show up in marketing materials and not multiplayer games.
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Post by lustindarkness on Nov 17, 2017 10:59:28 GMT -5
I have yet to use it other than picking it up from the floor. Is it bad? I'll have to give it a go.
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Post by illram on Nov 17, 2017 12:33:50 GMT -5
When everyone can hear everyone's footsteps, movement is discouraged. Again, why should players be punished for moving? Why are audible footsteps on a battlefield realistic? Why in the name of god would CoD need to consider keeping anything for the sake of "realism"? You say you play aggressively, do you play aggressively without dead silence when you know someone on the other team is soundwhoring you? I don't necessarily think they need to isolate or make footsteps louder via sitrep pro, all I'm saying is footsteps are part of the audio you would expect in any game so taking it out needs a good reason. Like if a guy is rushing up the stairs behind me, I shouldn't be able to hear that? Assuming some other loud noise isn't drowning that out. If you're rushing up the stairs to find someone it adds to the strategy of each situation if, for example, maybe you need to consider that people might hear you coming. Maybe you need to flashbang, maybe you need to crouch walk, maybe you need to throw a made first, I don't know. Ninja sneakers everywhere sounds bland to me.
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Post by snes chalmers on Nov 18, 2017 2:13:30 GMT -5
I have yet to use it other than picking it up from the floor. Is it bad? I'll have to give it a go. It's good in hardcore (though that can be said for almost every gun). It can quickly 2 hit kill out to a decent range...but you really need to be on point with those 8 rounds (ext mags are quite a grind to get to), the recoil isn't terrible but it can make followup shots or spamming a bit difficult. If anything, the Karabin with the 4x scope (ACOG) seems better for the most part.
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wings
True Bro
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Post by wings on Nov 18, 2017 9:37:59 GMT -5
I'm honestly amazed at how people still consider this a positive. Like literally all it ever does is limit perk selection to the perk that silences your footsteps. If it can be considered a metagame it is an incredibly shallow one that revolves more around playstyle than skill. Ah, Call of Duty. Where people are concerned about soundwhoring when visual intel has often been just as powerful in limiting perk selection, sometimes holding hands of players to go follow that red dot/Dorito marker on the radar. So, unless I'm being oblivious, why does soundwhoring get singled out for being no skill in Call of Duty when Counter Strike has it?
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Post by GodMars on Nov 18, 2017 10:05:24 GMT -5
Ah, Call of Duty. Where people are concerned about soundwhoring when visual intel has often been just as powerful in limiting perk selection, sometimes holding hands of players to go follow that red dot/Dorito marker on the radar. So, unless I'm being oblivious, why does soundwhoring get singled out for being no skill in Call of Duty when Counter Strike has it? Mental impairment
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Post by lustindarkness on Nov 18, 2017 10:19:50 GMT -5
Ah, Call of Duty. Where people are concerned about soundwhoring when visual intel has often been just as powerful in limiting perk selection, sometimes holding hands of players to go follow that red dot/Dorito marker on the radar. So, unless I'm being oblivious, why does soundwhoring get singled out for being no skill in Call of Duty when Counter Strike has it? Mental impairment That's a given, we ARE playing COD you know.
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Post by lustindarkness on Nov 18, 2017 10:23:06 GMT -5
I have yet to use it other than picking it up from the floor. Is it bad? I'll have to give it a go. It's good in Touch Football (though that can be said for almost every gun). It can quickly 2 hit kill out to a decent range...but you really need to be on point with those 8 rounds (ext mags are quite a grind to get to), the recoil isn't terrible but it can make followup shots or spamming a bit difficult. If anything, the Karabin with the 4x scope (ACOG) seems better for the most part. Tried it a bit, will take getting used to it, if I hit my target they die quick, but half of the time I can't see my target. I'll try it again today. The Karabin is another one I have yet to use.
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pachiderm
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Post by pachiderm on Nov 18, 2017 13:47:05 GMT -5
When everyone can hear everyone's footsteps, movement is discouraged. Again, why should players be punished for moving? Why are audible footsteps on a battlefield realistic? Why in the name of god would CoD need to consider keeping anything for the sake of "realism"? You say you play aggressively, do you play aggressively without dead silence when you know someone on the other team is soundwhoring you? I don't necessarily think they need to isolate or make footsteps louder via sitrep pro, all I'm saying is footsteps are part of the audio you would expect in any game so taking it out needs a good reason. Like if a guy is rushing up the stairs behind me, I shouldn't be able to hear that? Assuming some other loud noise isn't drowning that out. If you're rushing up the stairs to find someone it adds to the strategy of each situation if, for example, maybe you need to consider that people might hear you coming. Maybe you need to flashbang, maybe you need to crouch walk, maybe you need to throw a made first, I don't know. Ninja sneakers everywhere sounds bland to me. I can agree with you a bit on this. Personally I like the way BO2 did footsteps where it often had more to do with the surface or environment you were walking on than how slow you were moving or whether you were crouched. This made dead silence useful really only for SnD, and even then it wasn't mandatory if you didn't plan on having to be mobile. It was still an audio cue, but it wasn't consistent and you had to really be listening to take advantage of it. I'm honestly amazed at how people still consider this a positive. Like literally all it ever does is limit perk selection to the perk that silences your footsteps. If it can be considered a metagame it is an incredibly shallow one that revolves more around playstyle than skill. Ah, Call of Duty. Where people are concerned about soundwhoring when visual intel has often been just as powerful in limiting perk selection, sometimes holding hands of players to go follow that red dot/Dorito marker on the radar. So, unless I'm being oblivious, why does soundwhoring get singled out for being no skill in Call of Duty when Counter Strike has it? So, in your mind, because I'm not also complaining about UAVs my complaint about footsteps isn't valid? The UAV is bullsh it. It always has been. That's why the competitive community always bans it. It being bullsh it has nothing to do with footstep sound. These are different things. But since you made the comparison, let's compare the two. -The UAV requires you getting several kills in a row to get, it doesn't work on people with a specific perk that hides them from it, and it can be shot down. The UAV shows nearby enemies on the minimap and has the potential to show the enemy spawn direction if enough enemies show up on it. -Audible footsteps can be heard without getting any kills, it doesn't work on people who have the footstep silencing perk (unless you're playing with a perk that cancels that perk out in which case it works on everyone), and the only way to counter it other than putting on dead silence is to crouch walk everywhere. Now let's add to that the fact that hearing everyone's footsteps is essentially like having a free UAV anyway. It doesn't expand out to the entire minimap, but that doesn't matter since most of the UAV's usefulness comes from telling you where enemies are when they're close enough to kill. Footsteps do that just fine, and they do it in real time instead of sweeping the minimap like the UAV does. So like, Counter Strike is a completely different game. There's no sprint, they only play one game mode, there's an in-game economy that you kind of need to know how to use. What exactly makes you think that a game mechanic that is in counter strike is just beyond reproach in other games?
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wings
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Post by wings on Nov 18, 2017 14:32:12 GMT -5
Ah, Call of Duty. Where people are concerned about soundwhoring when visual intel has often been just as powerful in limiting perk selection, sometimes holding hands of players to go follow that red dot/Dorito marker on the radar. So, unless I'm being oblivious, why does soundwhoring get singled out for being no skill in Call of Duty when Counter Strike has it? because in call of duty a person moving slow enough to keep their footsteps silent is literally more useless than someone throwing corpses at the enemy. with SnD and maybe TDM being the sole exceptions. and you know, cs literally doesnt have ways to avoid these outside of walking or not shooting. if cs had a way to silence your footsteps and not show up on radar itd be one of the strongest things in the game. Yeah but in previous iterations of Call of Duty you get so much stuff available in-game that literally handholds you to get kills, and I'm not sure Counter Strike has this (not last time I checked anyway). While the visual aids may not be as powerful as soundwhoring from a gameplay point of view, I don't think it should be ignored. I mean MW3 had so much of it that people pretty much all players ran Assassin Pro. So Treyarch goes all out to diminish soundwhoring trying to get rid of a super powerful perk, then we ended up with Toughness. Perhaps I'm not seeing it or I'm being too cynical, but I think the perk system, radar mechanics, some attachments, and scorestreaks will usually be at odds when people seek skill. Obviously if Counter Strike had a way to silence players' footsteps it would be strong. I imagine the same would be true if thermal sights existed in PUBG.
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