markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Oct 25, 2017 15:08:22 GMT -5
I tried to run a even build (3-4-6) but now I run a 1-7-8 and you can definitely tell the difference in recovery
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Oct 25, 2017 15:12:42 GMT -5
...welcome to a month ago? Ok Just trying to help. I don't recall ever seeing the above posted anywhere. Heh, just giving you a hard time!
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Post by iw5000 on Oct 26, 2017 9:58:10 GMT -5
I tried to run a even build (3-4-6) but now I run a 1-7-8 and you can definitely tell the difference in recovery I actually tried to test out various recovery models with my Warlock last night. Not sure if this is a good way, but I went to Nessus, launched in the tall radio tower thing, and then jumped off plummeting to the bottom. The height is just perfect for taking your health all the way down to the last tiny red bar, like near death. Then I hit a stopwatch and timed how long it took to get to full health. Did it twice for each below Rec lv - - Time level 10 - Level 09 - 6.7 Level 08 - 7.8 Level 07 - 8.3 Level 06 - 8.9 Level 05 - Level 04 - Level 03 - Level 02 - That's all I did, before I got bored. This sort of, kind of matches up with what I am seeing online. Level 1 is like 10.5 to 11 seconds. So basically, going from level 02 to 5 or 6 only is going to bring you a second or two off your recovery. But getting it up 8 or 9, you get another second or two. I tried it last night. I ran a Warlock and ran Mobility-6, Res-1, and Recovery-9. Used the MIDA and the SandWasp. Had one recoil counter mod on both guns, as well as a energy handling counter mod too. I did pretty well last night. Played around 8 to 10 games. Went .500 probably. I think I probably averaged 15 to 16 kills per game, never went below a 1.5 KDA, and maybe half the games was well north of 2.00. I was in the top 2/3 almost every game. Two or three games in the 20+ kill area. I tried to force myself to back off every single time I felt I was in a losing encounter. I played off teammates and kept to a distance. If I got wounded, I backed off a few seconds, then reattacked kind of often...assuming the opponent would be 2-3 seconds behind in health recovery. Used cover a ton. All the above helped. But I'm sure just playing more and knowing the maps helped most of all. I wish Destiny Tracker worked, I could then actually look at my games.
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markopolo
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Once a LMG Camper, Then a Voidlock, Now a Lexington 25-8-366 Runner
Posts: 5,567
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Post by markopolo on Oct 26, 2017 10:16:22 GMT -5
Bravo for you IDub....
I'm trying really hard to find gear to get that one more recovery to 9... but all I get is 8 as a max. Maybe I have to adjust with my mods more....
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Post by TheHawkNY on Oct 26, 2017 10:28:18 GMT -5
Bravo for you IDub.... I'm trying really hard to find gear to get that one more recovery to 9... but all I get is 8 as a max. Maybe I have to adjust with my mods more.... The Ego Talon IV armor set that you get from Ikora is a Recovery set. She has that meditation that we ran through quickly 3x again this week, so let's do that together, hopefully you can get a drop from that.
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markopolo
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Once a LMG Camper, Then a Voidlock, Now a Lexington 25-8-366 Runner
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Post by markopolo on Oct 26, 2017 10:39:17 GMT -5
Bravo for you IDub.... I'm trying really hard to find gear to get that one more recovery to 9... but all I get is 8 as a max. Maybe I have to adjust with my mods more.... The Ego Talon IV armor set that you get from Ikora is a Recovery set. She has that meditation that we ran through quickly 3x again this week, so let's do that together, hopefully you can get a drop from that. thanks; I have the gloves and chest already so that should also help too!
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Post by Pegasus Actual on Oct 26, 2017 13:12:46 GMT -5
I'm undefeated all time in D2 Crucible, 4-0 bitches Shaxx so impressed he wants me to play more.
My infinite wisdom is here for the taking, AMA!
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Oct 26, 2017 13:16:31 GMT -5
How do you feel about D2 PvP on PC? Warming up to it at all, or hate it almost as much as console?
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Post by TheHawkNY on Oct 26, 2017 13:21:31 GMT -5
I'm undefeated all time in D2 Crucible, 4-0 bitches Shaxx so impressed he wants me to play more. My infinite wisdom is here for the taking, AMA! What should I use for my exotic slot, Mida-Multi Tool or Fighting Lion?
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Post by Pegasus Actual on Oct 26, 2017 13:35:06 GMT -5
How do you feel about D2 PvP on PC? Warming up to it at all, or hate it almost as much as console? I don't particularly like it. It plays better on PC obviously. I was barely holding down the Ws for the two casual matchmaking games, and then we were getting trounced in the first competitive game so I quickly rearranged some cables and unleashed XIMception on them for the comeback win in the 'you get X respawns as a team' mode. Then at full XIM capacity my team roflstomped them in the discount S&D mode with an IW5k like flawless from me. The recoil changes for mouse vs pad make no sense. There are a lot of reasons to prefer native mouse support over XIM on a comfort basis. But the soft aimbot is just too good. I was playing at like 4am pacific so I had the benefit of going up against pretty much the same group of players. And guys I was struggling with 1v1 instantly became sad splattered XIM victims. It made it so I would have to work to miss a shot. I don't know if there's much point to playing Crucible, but I might do the milestone once or twice for the powerful gear drop until I'm up near 300. What should I use for my exotic slot, Mida-Multi Tool or Fighting Lion? Sorry didn't have an exotic at the time. Based on my games I suggest whatever random white weapon has your highest light because light level probably does more damage as that is the only thing that makes sense why else have it? And then just don't use your secondary. It's important to have your heavy be a sniper that you have no intention of using. That way you don't get distracted. So in conclusion. No exotic.
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markopolo
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Once a LMG Camper, Then a Voidlock, Now a Lexington 25-8-366 Runner
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Post by markopolo on Oct 26, 2017 14:01:23 GMT -5
I'm undefeated all time in D2 Crucible, 4-0 bitches Shaxx so impressed he wants me to play more. My infinite wisdom is here for the taking, AMA! What should I use for my exotic slot, Mida-Multi Tool or Fighting Lion? Neither: Same lineup you used carrying us in Trials: Disrespectful Stare Trials Sidearm DARCI sniper Hunter wearing the Lucky Pants, Peacock strutting Warlock, or Titan with the ACDC arms
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Oct 27, 2017 6:20:06 GMT -5
Using Xim on pc to get auto aim is on a whole other level of douchery though tbh.
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markopolo
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Posts: 5,567
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Post by markopolo on Oct 27, 2017 8:59:21 GMT -5
Bravo for you IDub.... I'm trying really hard to find gear to get that one more recovery to 9... but all I get is 8 as a max. Maybe I have to adjust with my mods more.... The Ego Talon IV armor set that you get from Ikora is a Recovery set. She has that meditation that we ran through quickly 3x again this week, so let's do that together, hopefully you can get a drop from that. I did a bit of checking and I ran the Philomath set, and was able to get a 1-4-10 set up (actually past 10 recovery but the #'s didn't go that high, it stayed at 10) but I just can't live in PVP with that low of a resilience; I was getting wrecked far too often than normal.... I dropped back to a HMComplex set that went 1-6-8
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Post by iw5000 on Oct 27, 2017 10:11:35 GMT -5
I know going below '4' resilience is supposed to put you at risk to some guns, but I'm not seeing it. At least when put into the context of looking at the big picture. I've been running a 6-1-9 loadout (because that's the only one I can get recovery to a nine) and my KDA average has never been better the past few days. In fact, this morning I played four games. One of them (on the new map), I ended up with 19 kills, and a 17 streak. KDA of like 7 or so. Shoot and run. Shoot and dodge. As soon as I'm wounded, I move away, and then go back in three seconds. My six second recovery (or three seconds with half damage) will almost always enable me to re-engage the opponent with a higher health bar. It's a win/win.
If I do get caught in a straight up shoot-off, head to head....maybe that's six to seven times a game, very rarely does it seem like me dying is due to having five less health points, my health being 187 versus 192. I would rather have that health bar go back to 187 in six seconds....versus eight to nine seconds.
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Oct 27, 2017 10:42:01 GMT -5
Yeah biggest differences in resilience in PvP will be pure placebo. the difference in survivability between 4 and 10 resilience is laughable, for example Uriels gift needs 8 crits and 1 body shot against a 4 resilience, while it needs 9 crits and no bodyshots against a 10 resilience, not worth 6 points imho. Most guns don't even need an extra shot to kill, just one extra headshot needed instead of a body shot. Don't get me wrong though, I think 4 resilience is quite effective. Since your opponent needs an extra headshot from both 450 RPM auto and mida archetype scout (making mida need 4/5 crits instead of 3/5 is a pretty good boost). Worth it in my book (have been 1 health quite a few times as a result of this), but I can see somebody not caring about that. Look at this chart and look for the yellow things. See all that yellow on 4 resilience? That is why a lot of players use it. Now compare that to the spots where there is yellow in 5 and 6 resilience. Really the only place it is somewhat meaningfull is with the SMGs and burst side arms. The differences are quite minor. docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_6zsM7kzvg0aUT8YtM_-Wg_5K1gKDOlrwfVzutEjq-s/htmlview?usp=sharing&sle=true#
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bradman
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Post by bradman on Oct 27, 2017 11:02:21 GMT -5
I understand the law of diminishing returns concerning movement speed with Mobility, but what about jumping? I feel springier with a bit higher Mobility.
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Oct 27, 2017 11:12:06 GMT -5
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Post by iw5000 on Oct 27, 2017 11:34:05 GMT -5
Yeah biggest differences in resilience in PvP will be pure placebo. the difference in survivability between 4 and 10 resilience is laughable, for example Uriels gift needs 8 crits and 1 body shot against a 4 resilience, while it needs 9 crits and no bodyshots against a 10 resilience, not worth 6 points imho. Most guns don't even need an extra shot to kill, just one extra headshot needed instead of a body shot. Don't get me wrong though, I think 4 resilience is quite effective. Since your opponent needs an extra headshot from both 450 RPM auto and mida archetype scout (making mida need 4/5 crits instead of 3/5 is a pretty good boost). Worth it in my book (have been 1 health quite a few times as a result of this), but I can see somebody not caring about that. Look at this chart and look for the yellow things. See all that yellow on 4 resilience? That is why a lot of players use it. Now compare that to the spots where there is yellow in 5 and 6 resilience. Really the only place it is somewhat meaningfull is with the SMGs and burst side arms. The differences are quite minor. docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_6zsM7kzvg0aUT8YtM_-Wg_5K1gKDOlrwfVzutEjq-s/htmlview?usp=sharing&sle=true#Putting this into perspective. I looked at my stats on Destiny Tracker. My lifetime average in crucible in 1.04 KD, but that includes not having a workable sprint button the first two months, as well as not knowing the maps. The past week, since testing the above stuff...I'm averaging around a 1.60 KD (KD, not KDA), and going like 13-8 per game. That's all solo. Not playing with any friends, which I imagine would boost that number quite a bit. I'm losing half my games, so that hurts me when I go against a group. So all this talk, is kind of dealing with dying eight times a game. How many of those eight times are due to having 187 health versus 193? That's really what this discussion is about. I would venture a guess of those eight deaths, 2-3 per game are due to people's supers, and at least 1 to 2 due to rockets/swords/..power weapons. So let's say 4 to 5 per game. That leaves me dying on average of three to four times a game due to energy/kinetic weapons during this test period. Three to four deaths per game. How many of those are due to six less health? At most, maybe 2? Probably 1. it might even average out to 0.50 or 0.25. I think it's a good tradeoff, give up around a half death per game average...so that I can go to full health much faster, plus have faster mobility for strafing.
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Post by iw5000 on Oct 27, 2017 12:33:17 GMT -5
Destiny Tracker is also interesting because it shows the ELO rating system. It rates the players in each squad (their ELO), then assigns a probability on which team is favored to win.
What's interesting is that DT's above odds-making seems to be very good at predicting who will win. It was 4 for 4 (100% success) in predicting my four games today. I then looked at Hebbnh's most recent session, which was 16 games, and the DT oddsmaker was 13 for 14 in predicting the winner. Prediction based on the average ELO's of each team. That's a success rate of 94%. That's killing it.
It also looks like there is some sort of skill based matchmaking going on too. My ELO rating is 1410. Hebbnh's ELO is 1487. But my most recent four games, my average opponent squad ELO was 1189, Hebbnh had an average opponent rating of 1374.
Opponent ELO is a HUGE factor in how one does. Take Hebbnh's example as he has a good 14 game sample to look at. In the games against the opponent teams with ELO's above 1400...he went 43-61, KD of 0.70, kills per game of 7.2. In the eight games against squads with ELO's below 1400, he went 87-75, KD of 1.16, kills per game of 12.4
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Oct 27, 2017 12:40:50 GMT -5
Quickplay is supposed to be purely connection based, with competitive being mostly connection based with some SBMM components. I wonder how true that actually is. Also, yuck at those stats. Pick a sample that makes be look better next time! LOL.
As far as mobility/resilience/recovery, I'd say a lot of it depends on personal preference and what kind of opponents you run into. I agree a lot of times it's probably not going to matter much, but having 4 resilience and forcing MIDA users to hit an extra headshot or 180 rpm scout users to hit 5 shots instead of 4 can be a big deal if that's what the whole other team is running. I'd also say that while the strafe difference between 0 mobility and 10 mobility is pretty big, the difference between 0 and 3 or 4 isn't going to be nearly as noticeable, and aim assist is going to diminish some of those gains as well. I think you're kind of just splitting hairs either way at that point.
Anyway, something to keep in mind for the future is that the 140 rpm hand cannons go from 1h3b to 2h2b at 6 resilience. When hand cannon bloom gets adjusted (and I say when because I don't see any way it doesn't happen with how much everybody who's played PC raves about how great HCs feel there), that might actually be a big deal because I think hand cannons will be everywhere like they were in D1.
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malgato
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Post by malgato on Oct 27, 2017 13:00:52 GMT -5
Crucible stats can be misleading. Take me, for instance. I don't know what mine are, but they probably aren't very good. Part of the reason? About the only time I decide to play crucible is when I have finished all other weekly maintenance on a character, when I'm several beers in, and in a "fuck it" mood. That can't help...
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Post by iw5000 on Oct 27, 2017 13:14:12 GMT -5
Crucible stats can be misleading. Take me, for instance. I don't know what mine are, but they probably aren't very good. Part of the reason? About the only time I decide to play crucible is when I have finished all other weekly maintenance on a character, when I'm several beers in, and in a "Foxtrot it" mood. That can't help... I just found all that ELO stuff kind of interesting. Didn't know it was there. And ELO seems to be determined a lot by Wins and Losses. Big winning margins helping even more. Kind of hard to win when one is playing solo.
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Oct 27, 2017 13:28:23 GMT -5
Yeah biggest differences in resilience in PvP will be pure placebo. the difference in survivability between 4 and 10 resilience is laughable, for example Uriels gift needs 8 crits and 1 body shot against a 4 resilience, while it needs 9 crits and no bodyshots against a 10 resilience, not worth 6 points imho. Most guns don't even need an extra shot to kill, just one extra headshot needed instead of a body shot. Don't get me wrong though, I think 4 resilience is quite effective. Since your opponent needs an extra headshot from both 450 RPM auto and mida archetype scout (making mida need 4/5 crits instead of 3/5 is a pretty good boost). Worth it in my book (have been 1 health quite a few times as a result of this), but I can see somebody not caring about that. Look at this chart and look for the yellow things. See all that yellow on 4 resilience? That is why a lot of players use it. Now compare that to the spots where there is yellow in 5 and 6 resilience. Really the only place it is somewhat meaningfull is with the SMGs and burst side arms. The differences are quite minor. docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_6zsM7kzvg0aUT8YtM_-Wg_5K1gKDOlrwfVzutEjq-s/htmlview?usp=sharing&sle=true#Putting this into perspective. I looked at my stats on Destiny Tracker. My lifetime average in crucible in 1.04 KD, but that includes not having a workable sprint button the first two months, as well as not knowing the maps. The past week, since testing the above stuff...I'm averaging around a 1.60 KD (KD, not KDA), and going like 13-8 per game. That's all solo. Not playing with any friends, which I imagine would boost that number quite a bit. I'm losing half my games, so that hurts me when I go against a group. So all this talk, is kind of dealing with dying eight times a game. How many of those eight times are due to having 187 health versus 193? That's really what this discussion is about. I would venture a guess of those eight deaths, 2-3 per game are due to people's supers, and at least 1 to 2 due to rockets/swords/..power weapons. So let's say 4 to 5 per game. That leaves me dying on average of three to four times a game due to energy/kinetic weapons during this test period. Three to four deaths per game. How many of those are due to six less health? At most, maybe 2? Probably 1. it might even average out to 0.50 or 0.25. I think it's a good tradeoff, give up around a half death per game average...so that I can go to full health much faster, plus have faster mobility for strafing. Yeah I agree. Resilience is good, but not the end all be all. On the other hand, I mean how many of those times did mobility really make a change? We are here to split hairs though Overall, especially in trials 4v4, getting away with 1 health over dying can be the difference of winning and loosing a round. But so can superior strafes. Mobility surely is underrated. I like to go 4/4/rest. Also because my hunter will have 4 mobility minimum, and changing mobility too much between games/characters kinda messes up my strafing muscle memory. That might be a little autistic placebo more than anything though ;P
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Oct 27, 2017 13:30:59 GMT -5
Crucible stats can be misleading. Take me, for instance. I don't know what mine are, but they probably aren't very good. Part of the reason? About the only time I decide to play crucible is when I have finished all other weekly maintenance on a character, when I'm several beers in, and in a "Foxtrot it" mood. That can't help... I just found all that ELO stuff kind of interesting. Didn't know it was there. And ELO seems to be determined a lot by Wins and Losses. Big winning margins helping even more. Kind of hard to win when one is playing solo. ELO is 100% win/loss. It is a system designed for chess (I believe? at least a 1v1 game) so it doesn't translate perfectly to team based games, but it works well enough
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Post by iw5000 on Oct 27, 2017 13:58:19 GMT -5
I just found all that ELO stuff kind of interesting. Didn't know it was there. And ELO seems to be determined a lot by Wins and Losses. Big winning margins helping even more. Kind of hard to win when one is playing solo. ELO is 100% win/loss. It is a system designed for chess (I believe? at least a 1v1 game) so it doesn't translate perfectly to team based games, but it works well enough Maybe better than well enough. It predicted the winner in 17 of 18 games in just that small sample I looked at.
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malgato
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Post by malgato on Oct 27, 2017 14:15:01 GMT -5
I wonder if I could equip my Xbox with a breathalyzer? If it told me not to play crucible when I'm lubricated, my crucible experience might be more positive. Either that, or it would result in me never playing crucible. Win-win?
Seriously, though - I find my attitude and mental state makes a big difference in crucible. I kind definitely spiral into "tilt" mode and just play dumb, hyper-aggressive/reckless, and get really frustrated with ____ (fill in the blank - game mode, stupid teammates, bad luck, "lag", etc.). Gotta stay positive and smart to win.
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malgato
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Farm ammo, then everyone wipe.
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Post by malgato on Oct 27, 2017 14:17:29 GMT -5
ELO is 100% win/loss. It is a system designed for chess (I believe? at least a 1v1 game) so it doesn't translate perfectly to team based games, but it works well enough Maybe better than well enough. It predicted the winner in 17 of 18 games in just that small sample I looked at. Remember that one time we "played" Trials? I looked at the ELOs afterwards, and we were longshots in every match. The ELO differences were huge (if I remember right, I think the teams we were facing were all solidly in the 1500s, compared to our 1000-1100 ratings).
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Post by Pegasus Actual on Oct 27, 2017 22:10:33 GMT -5
Using Xim on pc to get auto aim is on a whole other level of douchery though tbh. Oh sure, it's completely preposterous. On the other hand it is becoming shockingly normal for big budget multiplatform games to have aim assist even in multiplayer for people using gamepads on PC. Which is something that is always arbitrarily balanced and easily exploited. Destiny 2 is completely overboard with the aim assist. I'm not going to go in there aiming by my damn self when gamepad players are auto-turreting my ass!
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Oct 29, 2017 11:29:33 GMT -5
So you think gamepad + aim assist gives advantage over M&K - aim assist? That is not what I have heard from most (all of them really) players
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wings
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Post by wings on Oct 29, 2017 12:18:58 GMT -5
This probably explains why I probably don't play Crucible much in Destiny 2.
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