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Post by Blurred Wolf on Oct 20, 2012 5:38:33 GMT -5
This is a good idea, thanks for putting my guide in there.
I hope I can make/help make something useful when BO2 comes out.
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wwaa
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Post by wwaa on Oct 20, 2012 14:46:12 GMT -5
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Post by confuzzled on Oct 20, 2012 15:15:17 GMT -5
I'm down for helping to make an unofficial black ops 2 guide when it comes out.
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danoski666
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Post by danoski666 on Oct 20, 2012 15:19:55 GMT -5
I'm certainly going to read the stat-charts when they are published here and use the most overpowered weapons, attachments and killstreaks, at least for the first few weeks. Gotta take advantage of that super duper cool & pretty swell guy club membership.
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Post by notanon on Oct 20, 2012 20:57:47 GMT -5
Good work Mousey. It's a good idea to index all the good information that comes up on this site. I promise to contribute something insightful to this list too... one of these days, at least.
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Oct 23, 2012 16:05:35 GMT -5
Did I mention I was friends with Marvel4?
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Oct 23, 2012 16:43:32 GMT -5
It should be switched to the hey guy forums and then stickied...but then Den would have to admit that what we do there sometimes isn't nonsense.
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Post by bmac39 on Oct 23, 2012 17:02:47 GMT -5
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Post by bmac39 on Oct 23, 2012 17:07:30 GMT -5
I don't see it.
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Post by aidsaidsaids on Oct 23, 2012 17:52:38 GMT -5
I think moving stickies concerning older titles to their own board would make sense. Instead of
Call of Duty :: Hey, Den
we could have
Call of Duty :: Current :: Hey, Den Call of Duty :: Past Titles :: Hey, Den
and subdivide it so that he could simply move threads whenever a new one is released. This would reduce clutter and make finding specific information easier.
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Post by bmac39 on Oct 23, 2012 21:21:23 GMT -5
The trick to finding threads on old games is to just go to the last page and comb the pages until you find something good.
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n1gh7
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Post by n1gh7 on Oct 23, 2012 23:50:10 GMT -5
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Oct 25, 2012 18:25:52 GMT -5
An organized collaboration of bros on this forum to build game guide is an awesome idea! and just in time for BO2 launch :-) Historically we have great info here for weapons, perks, killstreaks, strategies, tactics, etc. One weak area is map analysis, because it is a very hard issue to tackle. This time around we probably can make that better, using the "chalkboard playbook" ideas discussed in this thread: www.denkirson.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=nonsense&action=display&thread=5099Recently I became very interested in the subject of "FPS MP Level Design", not because I want to design levels myself, but due to the belief that "if I can understand the thought process of map design, I probably can become a better FPS player" :-) After some initial reading I found it a very interesting topic. I plan to start a thread to share what I have learnt, as well as suggesting a "document template" for writing map guide. Below represent my preliminary thoughts on such a template: BO2 map guide template1. Map name 2. Map description 3. General info 3.1 Callout (overhead map view with annotations) 3.2 Key locations (overhead map view with the location highlighted, plus an up close screen shot) 3.2.1 choke points 3.2.2 Sniping locations 3.2.3 Defensible areas 3.2.4 Spawn points ( Is this useful? Is this even doable?) 3.3 Routes & flow 3.4 General loadout recommendations 4. Domination playbook (iw5000 as the subject expert :-) ) 4.1 Strategies (e.g.: spawn trapping, how to set up trap, how to break out trap, etc, etc) 4.2 Dom specific loadout recommendations? 4.3 Stories about memorable games played (i.e. after action report like this one: denkirson.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=nonsense&action=display&thread=5075)5. Search and Destroy playbook (dumien as the subject expert :-) ) 5.1 Strategies 5.2 SnD specific loadout recommendations? 5.3 Stories about memorable games played etc. Well, at this point this is not well thought out yet, but you can get the general idea what I want to achieve. What do you guys think? Good idea? Can we pull it off?
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Tyzerra
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Post by Tyzerra on Oct 26, 2012 19:32:58 GMT -5
^ Sounds awesome! I really like the idea of all the sub-topic areas. I have some feedback and possible re-arrangements, etc and it'll probably be easier for me to just copy/paste your template and adjust it. Here's what I'm thinking: 1. Map name 2. Map description A small/medium/large map. Typical engagement ranges. Defining / stand-out features. Notable weather, buildings, routes, sounds, colours, etc.3. General info (regardless of game-type) 3.1 Spawn-to-spawn kills Combat axe throws, sight lines within ~10 seconds, etc3.2 Call-outs 3.3 Key locations 3.3.1 Notable spawn areas 3.3.2 Notable areas to lock-down 3.3.3 Choke-points 3.3.7 Sniping locations 3.4 Lines of sight 3.5 Counter-spots 3.6 Grenade spots 3.7 Combat axe spots 4. Class load-outs 4.1 Aggressive load-outs 1 aggressive shotgun, 1 aggressive SMG, 1 aggressive AR4.2 Defensive load-outs 1 scout-sniper, 1 defensive LMG, 1 defensive AR5. Domination playbook 5.1 Spawn to spawn kills Combat axe throws, sight lines within ~10 seconds, etc5.1.1 From A-spawn to C-spawn 5.1.2 From C-spawn to A-spawn 5.2 Capturing B-flag Common routes, safer routes, interception points, cap spots, etc5.2.1 From A-spawn 5.2.2 From C-spawn 5.2.3 Capture spots 5.3 Capturing enemy flags Common routes, safer routes, interception points, cap spots, etc5.3.1 Capturing A-flag 5.3.2 Capturing C-flag 5.4 Spawn-trapping enemies Common spawn points, areas to control outside spawn, common 'escape' routes where enemies try to leave, etc5.4.1 Trapping at A-flag 5.4.2 Trapping at C-flag 5.5 Escaping spawn-traps by enemies Common spawn points, counter-spots within spawn, safer escape routes, etc5.5.1 Escaping A-flag 5.5.2 Escaping C-flag 5.6 Flag-defending strategies Sight lines, 'nade spots, combat axe spots, etc5.6.1 Defending A-flag 5.6.2 Defending B-flag 5.6.3 Defending C-flag 6. Search & Destroy playbook 6.1 Spawn to spawn kills Combat axe throws, sight lines within ~10 seconds, etc6.1.1 Offense to defense 6.1.2 Defense to offense 6.2 S&D load-outs Load-outs that may be less-effective in most other game-modes but optimal for S&D6.3 Rush routes for kills 6.3.1 From offense spawn 6.3.2 From defense spawn 6.4 Rush routes to bomb sites Routes to A-bomb, routes to B-bomb6.4.1 From offense spawn 6.4.2 From defense spawn 6.5 Bomb protection spots Combat axe throws, 'nade spots, lines of sight, etc6.5.1 Protecting A-bomb 6.5.2 Protecting B-bomb Hooray for walls of text!
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Post by aidsaidsaids on Nov 4, 2012 4:46:50 GMT -5
Theater mode should simplify this a great deal. In particular, it can remove a fair amount of author bias if we can get enough footage. I've been getting back into some GB stuff again now that I have a decent squad, and I've found watching the matches afterwards is incredibly instructive. With the introduction of league play, we could conceivably gain access to footage of high level play from a variety of players. We can use that data to inform our analysis rather than the impressions of a single person or team, which can be misleading from a metagaming perspective.
For example, the guys I play with have a certain setup on the B site for Variant SnD on Underground that's pretty successful for us. If I were to write a guide based on my own play, it would factor in prominently. However, from reviewing footage of some close games, I've learned that the A site is definitely the more popular site with our opponents. Turns out there are a variety of headglitch setups and prefire spots that make it a safer offense option a lot of the time.
If a few bros that make it into the top couple of leagues take the time to upload/analyze just a few of their games a week, over time we could develop a fairly accurate and comprehensive view of what the metagame looks like in terms of map positioning and the most successful strategies, as well as track changes over time. This might also help measure the efficacy of any future balance/spawn logic patches for the purposes of high level play by going beyond usage stats. If a week after a spawn logic update the win rate for an "A" flag trap on map x goes from 60% to 45%, we'll notice. Likewise with weapon/perk updates; if more people use item x after a "buff" but they die and lose just as much, we'll notice that too.
This is the kind of thing that sets high level players apart from the competition in other games: not only knowing the moves, but knowing (based on empirical data) how those moves compare to one another in the metagame. Specifically, not just knowing the different spawn traps and nade spots, but knowing how likely on average this trap or that nade spot will pay dividends. If teams rush "A" 80% of the time, the nade spot that hits them is going to be a higher percentage spot than the 20% "B" spot. That's useful information, and something that's easily organized over time in a google doc or something once we quantify the moves (even in general terms, like the categories described in the posts preceding this one).
IW5K might, for example, report on 3 Dom games a week, mentioning things like which two flags the winning team controlled, where the trap was, which spawn the winning team got, etc. Mousey (or IW himself, or some other volunteer) takes this information and records it in a spreadsheet. Over time, we learn that the team that holds the "A" flag on Mission tends to lose and that the "A" trap on Interchange tends to last longer than the "C" trap, etc (to use MW3 examples).
This method of data collection, in addition to resulting in a more thorough and accurate "playbook" section, would also allow those inclined an outlet for their "war story" inclinations.
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Post by Indy_Bones on Nov 16, 2012 9:12:20 GMT -5
Firstly, thanks for linking my old MW2 guide, I got a fair bit of stick about it being not just hard data, but I really enjoyed making it and felt it offered a good base structure for a new player to work from.
The key problem with a collaborative guide is that we all have so many different opinions and preferences, it'll either be 50 pages long and full of individual choices, or it'll just be an amalgamation of the hard data which can already be accessed normally, and truthfully I think getting a balance between the two is nigh on impossible with a collaborative approach.
Maybe what would work better is if you could get the main contributors together and get them to work on specific areas individually and then pull them together editorially.?
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Dec 25, 2012 2:12:54 GMT -5
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Apr 10, 2013 7:02:36 GMT -5
This thread needs a well placed bump.
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Nov 11, 2013 5:22:43 GMT -5
I hate you too.
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Nov 11, 2013 7:30:46 GMT -5
Also you should know by now that I don't respect riot shields. Or actually play CoD... Ahah.
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Nov 11, 2013 7:39:45 GMT -5
lol. I never wanted you too. I preferred my SnD guide anyways. Also somewhere else you said you didn't play two others more than a day... So, Mousey. What ARE you still doing here.
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Nov 11, 2013 16:55:17 GMT -5
I edited my first post.
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