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Post by graefocs on Nov 21, 2012 21:07:11 GMT -5
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mmacola
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Post by mmacola on Nov 21, 2012 21:21:48 GMT -5
Those ranges are in Inches, at least. Lol at not showing SCAR-H 5hk range, that thing is really immense. And btw, there are only ARs on the strategy guide? Good job anyway
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Usagi
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Post by Usagi on Nov 21, 2012 22:53:06 GMT -5
The guide says that The SWAT is 3-4 with Select Fire. We know this is incorrect, but thanks for the scans anyway.
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Post by RageHulkSmash on Nov 21, 2012 23:14:06 GMT -5
WTH at FAL select fire recoil.
Is there any explanation for the different colors on the recoil plots? Is red like the first 3 shots and blue the following 7 or something?
Thanks for uploading btw.
Edit: Are you uploading the other weapon types later?
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Post by Megaqwerty on Nov 21, 2012 23:16:02 GMT -5
Correct. Red is the first few shots, probably 4 or so (M8 only has red).
The plot shows the most probable path for the recoil as the gun is fired continuously without correction.
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asasa
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fuck
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Post by asasa on Nov 21, 2012 23:48:15 GMT -5
I dont even @ how they got those things. Does 3arc actually make plots to visualize the numbers they pick? NO WAE
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Post by graefocs on Nov 22, 2012 1:06:57 GMT -5
what category do you want next?
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mmacola
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Post by mmacola on Nov 22, 2012 1:14:51 GMT -5
All of them
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Post by I Am Hollywood5 on Nov 22, 2012 2:13:51 GMT -5
WOW, the recoil pattern for dat M8A1!! *prepares for onslaught of whining*
I mean these charts look pretty, but they don't tell us anything we don't already know. The only inaccuracy I can see so far is the M8A1's range - this chart shows it has a longer 4HK than the Type 25, when in it's actually the opposite. The 3HK range on it is a little exaggerated too.
Oh and the FAL select fire recoil is real. Shooting at 450 rpm instead of 515 rpm allows the gun to completely recenter between shots.
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Evan950
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Post by Evan950 on Nov 22, 2012 2:18:05 GMT -5
smgs should be next, not that they will help much or anything did anyone else notice that the recoil plots are strangely straight bars?
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Post by graefocs on Nov 22, 2012 2:42:05 GMT -5
so how many different people are working on our official charts?
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Post by quickbuck on Nov 22, 2012 8:16:16 GMT -5
Look at the SMR recoil plots, for a gun firing as slow as it does that is just so unbelievably bad.
Why have they made two semi-autos when one is brilliant and the other one terrible. They could have saved themselves the trouble and left it at one. After December 31st you will never see an SMR in use.
I have tried so hard to love the SMR, but it just sucks gibbon sack on a regular basis.
Buff the SMR!
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mmacola
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Post by mmacola on Nov 22, 2012 8:43:45 GMT -5
Look at the SMR recoil plots, for a gun firing as slow as it does that is just so unbelievably bad. Why have they made two semi-autos when one is brilliant and the other one terrible. They could have saved themselves the trouble and left it at one. After December 31st you will never see an SMR in use. I have tried so hard to love the SMR, but it just sucks gibbon sack on a regular basis. Buff the SMR! It has, in fact, a lot of range. Don't try to rush with it. It's simple. Then you would be getting your results.
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Post by quickbuck on Nov 22, 2012 9:40:47 GMT -5
It has relatively good range, but not great: its 2 hit kill isn't even as great as the Blops M14 or Fal, not even in the same zip code as the MK14.
Yet it fires ~ 150-200 rpm slower than all of the above and even at that pathetic speed it has the worst recoil of the lot, by some distance. And it has giant hipspread and really bad irons (the latter a personal thing, admittedly).
If you do well with it, fair play to you, and you are welcome to keep it.
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mmacola
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Post by mmacola on Nov 22, 2012 9:42:40 GMT -5
I just don't thin it needs a buff. If the recoil is reduced, it becomes a better FAL. If it fire rate increases, it becomes a better FAL. If it reduces it hipspread, may god have mercy on our souls.
The point is: It isn't useless. It shoot bullets that kill.
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Post by quickbuck on Nov 22, 2012 10:43:06 GMT -5
The Blops M14 had the same spread as all the other AR's (excluding Fal and G11), it also fired at 625 rpm and with grip had exceptional and very easily controlled recoil. And it had nice irons.
Did you see a lot of people whacking Steady Aim on it and blamming from the hip like Buckshot Roberts?
Did you hear a single person ever complain that the M14 was OP?
The SMR wouldn't be better than the FAL if it had an improved fire rate OR reduced recoil. Arguably not even if it had both.
The hipspread thing is just nuts though: what difference does it make? It's just a last kick in the teeth: the FAL is a 2 shot kill at all distances where you could conceivably get a hipshot kill and it fires faster. Why would the SMR be OP with the same spread, when every single other characteristic (except range, which is irrelevant to hipspread) is far worse?
You can't argue that "If [SMR] reduces it hipspread, may god have mercy on our souls" but think it is fine for the faster-firing, larger-magazined FAL. If anything that should be swapped round.
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Nov 22, 2012 11:03:14 GMT -5
I just don't thin it needs a buff. If the recoil is reduced, it becomes a better FAL. If it fire rate increases, it becomes a better FAL. If it reduces it hipspread, may god have mercy on our souls. The point is: It isn't useless. It shoot bullets that kill. SMR is shit man, not sure what you're talking about. In every single way excluding range, the FAL is better than the SMR. Aim speed, hipfire, ammo, mag size, reload times, recoil, firerate, irons... It's just terrible.
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Post by mastermarth on Nov 22, 2012 12:49:44 GMT -5
I'm curious about how the recoil plots for the HAMR would look... what with the first 7 bullets firing faster and then slowing down...
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Post by graefocs on Nov 22, 2012 15:12:57 GMT -5
ugh. i can't get the recoil plot looking right for the SMGs. it comes out way too wide and destroys the page layout. anyways, i linked the rest of the charts for SMGs. if someone can figure out how to shrink down the size of SMG recoil, here's the link i.imgur.com/WxKPb.jpgit takes me way too long to do all this. if you all rather see only recoil plots, just lemme know and i'll get just those.
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mmacola
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Post by mmacola on Nov 22, 2012 19:23:50 GMT -5
I just don't thin it needs a buff. If the recoil is reduced, it becomes a better FAL. If it fire rate increases, it becomes a better FAL. If it reduces it hipspread, may god have mercy on our souls. The point is: It isn't useless. It shoot bullets that kill. SMR is doo-doo man, not sure what you're talking about. In every single way excluding range, the FAL is better than the SMR. Aim speed, hipfire, ammo, mag size, reload times, recoil, firerate, irons... It's just terrible. The fact that you can silence it and it range still is better than the FAL is good enough for me. This FAL is probably the worse semi auto in the series, with much less range and ROF... although it got a smaller hipspread to balance it out. The SMR is the closest thing you can get from the MW3 MK14: Big hipspread, slightly worse ADS time and big range. The maps, on the other hand, surely don't help it.
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prioc
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Post by prioc on Nov 22, 2012 19:35:42 GMT -5
Great job dude, it is fun to take a look at these images. I am just curious about that FAL with select fire
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Post by graefocs on Nov 22, 2012 19:59:51 GMT -5
thanks mmacola. i added them to the original post. i guess LMGs will come next...
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arcanine2009
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Post by arcanine2009 on Nov 22, 2012 20:49:08 GMT -5
AT the very least, SMR should have its hipfire reduced to equal the other ARs. Hell, trade it with the FAL's normal AR hipfire. FAL
Then, match FAL's ROF with SMR.
Personally, I'd also give SMR a faster reload time too.. FAL has more ammo per mag, and its significantly faster. wtf.
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mmacola
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Post by mmacola on Nov 22, 2012 20:53:59 GMT -5
AT the very least, SMR should have its hipfire reduced to equal the other ARs. Hell, trade it with the FAL's normal AR hipfire. FAL Then, match FAL's ROF with SMR. Personally, I'd also give SMR a faster reload time too.. FAL has more ammo per mag, and its significantly faster. wtf. Because the FAL is more suited for the "heat of battle", so reload times must be good. The SMR is more as a overwatch weapon, so reload times aren't as much as essential.
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Nov 22, 2012 21:19:10 GMT -5
Yeah.. so... lol.
All it has is range. You could just use the recoilless FAL to equal effect.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Nov 22, 2012 23:21:36 GMT -5
According to this, the Vector has a higher rate of fire when burst fired via Select Fire, for what it's worth.
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Evan950
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Post by Evan950 on Nov 23, 2012 0:30:13 GMT -5
why are they so square?
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Post by bigal093 on Nov 23, 2012 2:21:48 GMT -5
I don't understand how you guys all think the FAL outclasses the SMR. They are entirely different guns for different roles. The FAL imo is sort of the jack of all trades gun. Good at all ranges, but is semi auto takes a little more ability to track targets and spam the trigger, but crushes close range and long range due to extremely high damage. But you may get beat with certain ARs in the middle ranges.
The only change i could see as fair on the SMR would be a little less recoil. But since its a semi auto, its not hard at all to just let it recenter before you shoot again. I don't find it that hard to hit a good percentage of my shots at full 450rpm. Here's the thing though, its 2hk range is immense. Everyone wants to say "Other than range, the FAL has it beat." Well yeah, of course, but that 2hk range is a huge advantage. Since the first shot is instant, all you have to do is line up a second shot and its a kill at any kind of decent range. That isn't the case with the FAL. I would expect the hipspread and aim speed to be worse, because if not, it would outclass the FAL.
So basically this is the way I look at the two guns. The FAL is a solid gun that is good at all ranges and can be used in a variety of ways. It excels at close and long ranges, and is actually not bad on smaller maps, due to 2 hits close range with decent hipspread and ADS time. Its also tremendous at very long ranges due to its 3hk and great accuracy. It can struggle at middle ranges though, compared to other guns, however if it has just enough fire rate to be competitive in the middle----The SMR on the other hand, is completely different, it struggles at close range, with bad hipspread and bad ADS time, but its isn't completely useless there, because it does still have that 2hk. But where its really good is middle-long ranges. That 2hk extends very far, and WILL beat any other gun, barring a sniper, at longer ranges. Its a sniper/AR hybrid. It's intended range is that longer middle range that the FAL might struggle in. Its perfectly balanced IMO, maybe a little bit less recoil on the SMR, but its hardly something that needs adressed early on in the cycle.
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mmacola
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Post by mmacola on Nov 23, 2012 3:07:09 GMT -5
I don't understand how you guys all think the FAL outclasses the SMR. They are entirely different guns for different roles. The FAL imo is sort of the jack of all trades gun. Good at all ranges, but is semi auto takes a little more ability to track targets and spam the trigger, but crushes close range and long range due to extremely high damage. But you may get beat with certain ARs in the middle ranges. The only change i could see as fair on the SMR would be a little less recoil. But since its a semi auto, its not hard at all to just let it recenter before you shoot again. I don't find it that hard to hit a good percentage of my shots at full 450rpm. Here's the thing though, its 2hk range is immense. Everyone wants to say "Other than range, the FAL has it beat." Well yeah, of course, but that 2hk range is a huge advantage. Since the first shot is instant, all you have to do is line up a second shot and its a kill at any kind of decent range. That isn't the case with the FAL. I would expect the hipspread and aim speed to be worse, because if not, it would outclass the FAL. So basically this is the way I look at the two guns. The FAL is a solid gun that is good at all ranges and can be used in a variety of ways. It excels at close and long ranges, and is actually not bad on smaller maps, due to 2 hits close range with decent hipspread and ADS time. Its also tremendous at very long ranges due to its 3hk and great accuracy. It can struggle at middle ranges though, compared to other guns, however if it has just enough fire rate to be competitive in the middle----The SMR on the other hand, is completely different, it struggles at close range, with bad hipspread and bad ADS time, but its isn't completely useless there, because it does still have that 2hk. But where its really good is middle-long ranges. That 2hk extends very far, and WILL beat any other gun, barring a sniper, at longer ranges. Its a sniper/AR hybrid. It's intended range is that longer middle range that the FAL might struggle in. Its perfectly balanced IMO, maybe a little bit less recoil on the SMR, but its hardly something that needs adressed early on in the cycle. +1 2:12 And frankly, the recoil is straight up. Like that's the hardest thing ever to compensate right?
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Post by darius on Nov 23, 2012 6:48:00 GMT -5
According to this, the Vector has a higher rate of fire when burst fired via Select Fire, for what it's worth. Only a 2 round burst though. You have to really wail on the trigger to get kills with it, even in CQB....very hard to use.
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